Mexico: Navy selects SU-27 Flanker

[Supe]

Spotted on MP.net.

click (http://militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1632486&postcount=70)

Apr 27, 2006: PRESS: Mexico’s Navy plans to buy Russian SU-27 fighter aircraft
MEXICO CITY, April 27 (Prime-Tass)

The Mexican Navy intends to buy Russian SU-27 fighter aircraft, Undersecretary of the Mexican Navy Admiral Armando Sanchez Moreno told the Mexican newspaper El Universal.

The Mexican Navy also considered bids submitted by Russia and Sweden and decided to choose Russia's SU-27 fighters, Moreno said, according to the paper.

The Mexican Navy plans to set up an air defense unit using SU-27 aircraft, Moreno said. Ivan Goncharenko, deputy general director of Russia’s government-owned military export company Rosoboronexport, confirmed Thursday talks with Mexico about the SU-27 purchase. He did not elaborate.

SU-27 fighters are produced by Russia's Sukhoi aircraft maker

..a bit more info from a Mexican poster - click (http://militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79755)


Very little is floating around about this and sources are limited. I have my doubts that the order will eventuate. Any ideas as to what is driving this radical purchase?

[Big-E]

Spotted on MP.net.

click (http://militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1632486&postcount=70)



Very little is floating around about this and sources are limited. I have my doubts that the order will eventuate. Any ideas as to what is driving this radical purchase?

How about the "Nothing Gringo" boycott in Mexico today.

[contedicavour]

I'm just surprised the Air Force, with its dozen or so F-5s, wouldn't be the armed force requiring such jets...
If the navy wants to improve its long-range patrols in the Caribbean and in the Pacific Ocean, well then buying second-hand P-3C Orions would make much more sense :confused: Besides, I would first focus on deleting all the obsolete WW2-vintage ships and replacing the 3 Knox ex-USN ships with OH Perrys. Why waste money on SU27 ?? Let the air force handle that !

cheers

[Supe]

I'm just surprised the Air Force, with its dozen or so F-5s, wouldn't be the armed force requiring such jets...
If the navy wants to improve its long-range patrols in the Caribbean and in the Pacific Ocean, well then buying second-hand P-3C Orions would make much more sense :confused: Besides, I would first focus on deleting all the obsolete WW2-vintage ships and replacing the 3 Knox ex-USN ships with OH Perrys. Why waste money on SU27 ?? Let the air force handle that !



Apparently the Mexican airforce is part of the Army. Reasons against going American stem from potential for U.S political interference, which would limit effectiveness of operating U.S aircraft types.

A Mexican perspective: click (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=759491&postcount=13)

It would be great if the MEXICAN NAVY or AIR FORCE could get any F-16 from the U.S. but unfortunatly the sales to MEXICO are loaded with interest from the U.S. for example the sale of 21 KFIR figthers in 1980 to MEXICO was banned because the KFIR carry a U.S. jet-engine and they only aproved the sale of 12 F-5E/F direct from the STATES.
Another sale that was banned was 6 COBRA atack helos in 1994 and in that same year U.S. banned the sale of 12 PILATUS PC-9 because they said that MEXICO was going to use them for COIN duties, wich it was correct.
But the greatest fiasco of all was their gift of 73 UH-1H helicopters wich resulted in full rubish and causing at least 2 fatal accidents and at the end they where returned and to fill that inmense space (MEXICO prepared seberal bases for the UH-1H`S) MEXICO bougth 73 CESSNAS 182`S wich the fleet has the highest accident records since they where delivered( at least 7 has been lost since 2000).
It seems that the SEDENA have to agreed with everything that the U.S. send them.
But in case of the MEXICAN NAVY things are diferent. They where the first to buy MIL helos and the fleet of 20 has one of the highest safety records in MEXICO.
U.S. ofered 3 P-3 ORION and 14 KAMAN SEASPRITE helos to the MEXICAN NAVY but with the condition that in every fligth there would be 1 U.S. as "observation officer". This led the cancelation of the offer.

So, it would be a major stand if the MEXICAN NAVY could get any figthers, as i was talking with a friend of mine about the subject," we dont think that they would buy any SU-27, but the NAVY has gave us alot of surprises, the E-2C, MD-902, 2 ALIYA CLASS MISSILE SHIPS, the BO-105 SUPER FIVE, CASA C-202 MP and the last one, the 2 PANTHER helicopters"

Quoted from this thread: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49222

It answers the 'why' of Mexico looking at alternatives to U.S aircraft. I don't blame them - but I am curious as to the selection of the Flanker. A sea change in U.S/Mexico relations? I've a thought that some in Mexican military (Navy) aren't comfortable in the status quo with its northern neighbour and want Mexico to move away from the American sphere. At least, thats what a Flanker buy (even neutered Flankers) signifies to me. They are surely overkill for fisheries protection, anti-narco/terrorism operations...

the admiralty of the Mexican navy has finally decided to purchase the Russian figther interceptor Su 27 to form a new strategic defese squadron..

(translated from..)
México
Recibe México aviones rusos a reacción

El Estado Mayor General (EMG) de la Armada de México se decidió finalmente por una flotilla de aviones rusos a reacción Sukhoi-27 (Su-27) para integrar su primer escuadrón de jets de vigilancia estratégica, reveló el subsecretario de Marina, Almirante Armando Sánchez Moreno. El funcionario analizó las ofertas de Suecia, que le ofreció en principio una flotilla de jets Gripen SAAB, y Rusia, y decidió que la mejor opción es la de los Sukhoi-27 de la ex Unión Soviética. Eventualmente, con estas aeronaves se formaría el primer escuadrón de defensa de la Marina que operaría en la Sonda de Campeche. Explicó que la cooperación de la Armada de México con el gobierno de Suecia se centra en la compra de un sistema de armamento para buques y patrullas oceánicas.
Abril 26, 2006, 20:57 - 68309


Strategic Defence squadron eh.

[Big-E]

It answers the 'why' of Mexico looking at alternatives to U.S aircraft. I don't blame them - but I am curious as to the selection of the Flanker. A sea change in U.S/Mexico relations? I've a thought that some in Mexican military (Navy) aren't comfortable in the status quo with its northern neighbour and want Mexico to move away from the American sphere. At least, thats what a Flanker buy (even neutered Flankers) signifies to me. They are surely overkill for fisheries protection, anti-narco/terrorism operations...



Strategic Defence squadron eh.

Mexico making a powerplay in the Gulf, hmmmm

[Aussie]

Mexico making a powerplay in the Gulf, hmmmm

What powerplay? Isn't Mexico allowed to defend itself?

Not to mention that they're probably getting a good deal on these Su's, considering how the market is increasing for them lately. I expect Venezuela will be next to buy some. Then they can set up a repair plant in South America for them. No reliance on fickle American politicians who use weapons deals as political blackmail.

[Big-E]

What powerplay? Isn't Mexico allowed to defend itself?

Defend itself from what?

[contedicavour]

Defend itself from what?

Agree !

Playing nationalist anti-US politics in Mexico may be perfectly legitimate ... but when it means wasting limited budgets to buy SU27 Flankers to pursue 200-mph propeller-driven Cessnas :mad: it is just plain nonsense.

No wonder it is so difficult to equip the Mexican Navy with enough modern OPVs to chase drug traffickers ... the price tag of a SU27 is equivalent to that of a 72-metre locally built OPV with 57mm cannon, radar and helo pad.

Remember the Mexican Navy still operates 17 WW2-vintage Auk corvettes capable of a superb 12 knots max speed. Great to chase speedboats. :rolleyes:

cheers

[Aussie]

Agree !

Playing nationalist anti-US politics in Mexico may be perfectly legitimate ... but when it means wasting limited budgets to buy SU27 Flankers to pursue 200-mph propeller-driven Cessnas :mad: it is just plain nonsense.

No wonder it is so difficult to equip the Mexican Navy with enough modern OPVs to chase drug traffickers ... the price tag of a SU27 is equivalent to that of a 72-metre locally built OPV with 57mm cannon, radar and helo pad.

Remember the Mexican Navy still operates 17 WW2-vintage Auk corvettes capable of a superb 12 knots max speed. Great to chase speedboats. :rolleyes:

cheers

If you're going to claim their reason for buying Su-27s is to chase drug smugglers, ofcourse that is going overboard. But you underestimate the need for having SOME homeland defense. It is not necessarily a conventional war that you need to worry about, but even that is possible. South America isn't the most stable place on Earth.

I also doubt these Su-27s are going to be that expensive. It's not like they're buying Su-35s. What is an Su-27 these days? It's not that far removed from getting Mig-29s or F-16s? Maybe the US should sell it's F-14s to Mexico at a discount, now that they are supposedly being retired?

[Aussie Digger]

Don't they sem to see an awful lot of UFO's in Mexico? Maybe this would explain their purchase...:hitwall

[Big-E]

Don't they sem to see an awful lot of UFO's in Mexico? Maybe this would explain their purchase...:hitwall

There certainly are alot of aliens from there...:splat

[Supe]

I also doubt these Su-27s are going to be that expensive. It's not like they're buying Su-35s. What is an Su-27 these days? It's not that far removed from getting Mig-29s or F-16s? Maybe the US should sell it's F-14s to Mexico at a discount, now that they are supposedly being retired?

F14's are too maintenance intensive and would be very expensive to operate. It would be a dud investment. Folks have suggested the F16 but it would probably come with too many political strings attached.

Puts the speculation hat on: I'd be surprised if this purchase comes to fruition with Army lobbying to kill the deal or take the Flankers themselves. Ego and pride is an enemy to rational defence planning. Fortunately for the Navy, it is not subordinate to the Army - if it was, it'd be neutered just like the Mexican Airforce. I guess the concept of a balanced force has no meaning within the Mexican military...

[contedicavour]

F14's are too maintenance intensive and would be very expensive to operate. It would be a dud investment. Folks have suggested the F16 but it would probably come with too many political strings attached.

Puts the speculation hat on: I'd be surprised if this purchase comes to fruition with Army lobbying to kill the deal or take the Flankers themselves. Ego and pride is an enemy to rational defence planning. Fortunately for the Navy, it is not subordinate to the Army - if it was, it'd be neutered just like the Mexican Airforce. I guess the concept of a balanced force has no meaning within the Mexican military...

If they simply decided to buy what they needed vs their real needs, a lot of OPVs, long-range maritime patrol aircrafts, try a coast guard... instead of doing nonsense, that would be a great improvement...

cheers

[HK_Thoughtful]

Just wondering (from the lack of any news)...how many Su-27s is Mexico planning to procure and any opinions on how the Mexican Navy (or Airforce) is going to arm them?
My thoughts...I tend to think of the SU-27 as an Air Superiority Fighter and if the Mexican Military is planning on using them for anti-drug operations I agree it would be 'overkill'. On the other hand, if the Mexican government is planning to use the SU-27s as something else...like air-defense fighters, then I guess the Mexican military got themselves a good buy...not counting the cost. Also the news article provided above mentioned a Swedish bid...any thoughts on what this could have been. SAAB Jas-39 Gripen maybe???

[contedicavour]

Just wondering (from the lack of any news)...how many Su-27s is Mexico planning to procure and any opinions on how the Mexican Navy (or Airforce) is going to arm them?
My thoughts...I tend to think of the SU-27 as an Air Superiority Fighter and if the Mexican Military is planning on using them for anti-drug operations I agree it would be 'overkill'. On the other hand, if the Mexican government is planning to use the SU-27s as something else...like air-defense fighters, then I guess the Mexican military got themselves a good buy...not counting the cost. Also the news article provided above mentioned a Swedish bid...any thoughts on what this could have been. SAAB Jas-39 Gripen maybe???

Yep air-defense fighters ... against a US or Guatemalan air attack ?:rolleyes:
Besides, taking used SU27s on the cheap from some former USSR source doesn' mean they would be easy to maintain operational. Cuba has a dozen MIG29s and has the cash from Chavez' Venezuela, but AFAIK they aren't operational anymore.

[Padman]

Su -27 s or even F-16s a bit much for Cessna busting, Frogfoot is the Sukhoi ideal for this role. Then navy can spend big bucks on some new corvettes and/or frigates. Then maybe airforce can get Flankers to make USA or Guatemala think twice about attacking. But USA no threat, all the rich folk would complain when the cheap source of nannies and gardeners disappeared.

[LancerMc]

Here's a thought, if the Mexican Airforce or Navy procure Su-27's wouldn't it be a great advantage for the USAF and USN. Since the U.S. and Mexico have good relations it would be great opportunity for the USAF and USN to do exercises with Mexico. A lot countries not to friendly to US and its allies are acquiring Flankers, so if Mexico got some I wouldn't be surprised to see them at bases like Tyndall AFB and others in the future.

The USAF and USN would secretly acquire Russian aircraft during the Cold War to test and practice against. Though unlikely I wouldn't be surprised if USAF leaders mite push the Mexican Government to purchase Flankers for the express purpose in hope of future training with Mexican Military.

[Padman]

A very good point, I am sure USAF and USN, not to mention other NATO countries would welcome chance to have a little DACT with friendly Flankers. US and France have already had some experience with IAF Su-30s, having the chance close to home would surely be an advantage. But still think Su-25 better for smuggler busting, or quelling any future rebellions.

[long live usa]

why would the mexican armed forces even need su-27?besides internal threats and drug smuggling

[long live usa]

I'm just surprised the Air Force, with its dozen or so F-5s, wouldn't be the armed force requiring such jets...
If the navy wants to improve its long-range patrols in the Caribbean and in the Pacific Ocean, well then buying second-hand P-3C Orions would make much more sense :confused: Besides, I would first focus on deleting all the obsolete WW2-vintage ships and replacing the 3 Knox ex-USN ships with OH Perrys. Why waste money on SU27 ?? Let the air force handle that !

cheers
i thought that in the mexican armed forces that the airforce was just a entity of the army,and it was only divided beetween the navy and army

[gf0012-aust]

The USAF and USN would secretly acquire Russian aircraft during the Cold War to test and practice against. Though unlikely I wouldn't be surprised if USAF leaders mite push the Mexican Government to purchase Flankers for the express purpose in hope of future training with Mexican Military.

IIRC, the US purchased 2 Su-27's approx 4 years ago.

On a side note, I'm curious as to what the average hours MexAF combat pilots rack up every year.

[contedicavour]

IIRC, the US purchased 2 Su-27's approx 4 years ago.

On a side note, I'm curious as to what the average hours MexAF combat pilots rack up every year.

Given the age of the dozen or so remaining F-5s, I suspect very few... unless we're talking flight hours on the Pilatus trainers ;)

cheers

[HK_Thoughtful]

IIRC, the US purchased 2 Su-27's approx 4 years ago.

On a side note, I'm curious as to what the average hours MexAF combat pilots rack up every year.

Hey gf0012-aust I was just wondering about the 2 Su-27's purchased by the US. Do you have any information on what varient of Flanker they are and if they are still being flown right now...perhaps by aggressor squadrons? Any info would be great thanks...

[Centauro]

Admin: Text deleted. How this little comment managed to slip past the Mods is a mystery - but it's gone now.

The navy plans to buy around 8 to 12 Su-27UBK FLANKERs. Than can also be used as trainers.

Regarding the ships. The navy with its modernization programme has slowly been replacing the old units with Mexican made patrol ships.

[contedicavour]

By the way, why my image doesn't show up? I used the [img] code.

wow nice picture, Sierra/Durangos followed by some of the new Oaxaca OPVH. Thanks. Btw, you might open a new thread in the naval section to discuss this.
I've seen 20+ modern OPVs are now in Mexican service. However there's still a lot of work ;) : there's still one WW2 destroyer escort, 10 Auk WW2 corvettes, and the Bronstein and Knox frigates are not exactly modern.
That's why I would prefer to invest in more OPVHs, or in buying second hand OHP FFGs from the US, rather than buying SU27 Flankers !?

cheers

[Sandhi Yudha]

Nice pic Centauro! Great looking ships, stealthy with Bofors 57mm MkII...
Do you have more info about these ships?

[Feanor]

A quick google search came up with nothing but forum discussions on the old 2006 articles. No databases list the deal as far as I could tell. Can anyone confirm whether this was just a newspaper hoax? I'd imagine an actual sale of Flankers to Mexico would cause enough political uproar to register in the press. The Venezuelan deal certainly did, so I'm assuming King Google is drawing a blank because there is nothing to find.

[Haavarla]

Hey gf0012-aust I was just wondering about the 2 Su-27's purchased by the US. Do you have any information on what varient of Flanker they are and if they are still being flown right now...perhaps by aggressor squadrons? Any info would be great thanks...

Here are some notes on the Su-27UB in the US.

Pride Aircraft: Sukhoi SU-27 Flankers for Sale (http://www.prideaircraft.com/specialproject.htm)

As i understand this;
The two Ukarine UB Flankers are currently on Sales.
They will not be bought and used by the USAF.
They have been completly de-militarylised, with a new western cockpit instrumentation and featuring no radar.

So all the fuzz about them beeing coupled with USAF Nelis etc etc are not true.


Thanks

[turin]

Can anyone confirm whether this was just a newspaper hoax?

There were two newspaper reports in 2006 about talks between Mexico and Russia. Specifically Admiral Armando Sanchez Moreno and FGUP Rosoboronehksport deputy general director, Ivan Goncharenko were quoted. The first report was from Mexican El Universal, the second one with Goncharenkos comments came from Praym-TASS.

So its not a hoax, but as far as I can see, nothing ever materialised out of those talks and apparently they took place over quite some time. Moreno said that they had a look at the Gripen and the Flanker, but the Flanker would be preferred. No numbers of aircraft were ever quoted, so I guess, it really was just a lofty idea that was eventually shelved.

The Navy ordered new CN-235 two years later, so I guess they really just played around with certain ideas before settling for a more pragmatic approach that fits better with the nature of Mexicos current naval aviation.

[Feanor]

Thank you for the substantiation.

[DeltaSPARTAN003]

This does not fair well for Mexico's future. Mexico needs the F-35, nothing less. Or at least the Russian/Euro equivalent. But the drug war is taking precedence. As it should.

[baldtree]

Spotted on MP.net.

click (http://militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1632486&postcount=70)



Very little is floating around about this and sources are limited. I have my doubts that the order will eventuate. Any ideas as to what is driving this radical purchase?


Appears unlikely as Mexico is within America's backyard. Unless the Americans need itt to practice.

[swerve]

This was all finished, years ago. The navy did not buy it. The requirement for land-based naval fighters was dropped.

[windscorpion]

I doubt Mexico would buy anything like the Flanker or JSF. Their defence doctrine has always been an attack from the north was unstoppable and one from the south unthinkable. The likes of Venezuela and Cuba are potential threats i guess but its unlikely the US would not intervene in that case.