Update on Chinese Navy 2006

[norinco89]

I have a few questions that need to be answered.

a. Have the "Yuan" class gone into full productions and does it have AIP?

b. Did the type 93 or 94 finish sea trials.

c. Have they built any new destroyers after the 51c.

d. did they get thier last project 956em destroyer from russia and did they order more.

e. Are they builting the type 54 frigate and does the type 54a frigate exist.

f. what type of missiles does the litoral catamaran missile craft use?

g. they do anything with the Varieg yet.

expand on anything that is not old news. Please dont focus on Varieg. Please dont speculate like crazy. Facts please.

[rickusn]

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/57462.pdf

The above is a useful CRS report. Dont forget to read appendix A.

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/default.asp

http://mil.jschina.com.cn/huitong/luhai_luhu_luda.htm


The above two sites on the Chinese Navy are quite good..

a.maybe
b.93 AFAIK 94 no
c. none reported
d. Three in service. One yet to be delivered.
e. Yes and havent seen a reliable report on further development.
f. Not finalized that I know of. Could be indigenous or Russian "Sunburn".
g. Work continues on it but exactly what is not certain.

[norinco89]

i mean have the type 54 and yuan gone into mass production.

I doubt it is the sunburn by its size and the lacks of thrust deflector and heat shilds on the ship.

i thinks the the y-62 or the y-803 or a new missile

[tphuang]

I just answer in there
I have a few questions that need to be answered.

a. Have the "Yuan" class gone into full productions and does it have AIP?
- testing for Yuan are apparently finished, I'm sure they are fixing some bugs before the operational version is ready. There was a claim recently that was supposed to be the last Song to be produced. It claims to have Sterling AIP. We will see.

b. Did the type 93 or 94 finish sea trials.
- 93 - probably, 94 - hasn't even fired off a SLBM yet
c. Have they built any new destroyers after the 51c.
- they are still building 116 as of late 2005, problems on 052C need to be addressed before mass production
d. did they get thier last project 956em destroyer from russia and did they order more.
- one caught fire, so delivery got delayed
- most likely no future orders of 956
e. Are they builting the type 54 frigate and does the type 54a frigate exist.
- 2 commissioned 054
- 054A is being built, no idea of the status. They are probably testing a lot of new stuff on 054A (rumoured hot launched VLS)
f. what type of missiles does the litoral catamaran missile craft use?
- most likely YJ-83
g. they do anything with the Varieg yet.
- yes, you can check the latest pictures of Varyag on SDF
expand on anything that is not old news. Please dont focus on Varieg. Please dont speculate like crazy. Facts please.

[norinco89]

Dpes any know if a ship need long range radar to use long range missiles?

Cause on a missile craft the radar only goes so far and the missiles range is about 5-6 time the radar's range.

So how would A FAC use such missiles

[tonbo]

hi all, you might wanna check out this thread:

http://www.war-sky.com/forum/htm_data/3/0604/184809.html

- it's got the development history of Varyag in pics, updated to 3 months ago, when they were redoing the flightdeck (nevermind if you dun read Chinese, it's pretty straight forward)

[Big-E]

You say don't focus on the Varyag, but I think looking at PLAN naval power you should. While everything is still speculation it is obvious that having moved it to Dalien that they are preparing to use it for active carrier take-offs, if they decide to fix her engines they could have her ready in 3yrs. With the Indian navy procuring 3 carriers by the next decade you have seen China's response, the production of 2 AEGIS destroyers and the refit of Varyag at Dalien. China is preparing for CBGs and don't be suprised if you see one in 5yrs centered around a refitted Kuznetzov class carrier.

[norinco89]

china does not care about india! i repeat it does not care about the indians. Sure they had past confrontations and still is a threat, but they are not worried about them. This can be seen by the number of air bases on west compared to east. It can also be seen by the lack of a indian ocean fleet.

CHINA IS WORRIED ABOUT THE EAST.

This includes the US pacific fleet, taiwan, and japan.

The main focus will be submarines for the next couple of years. The admiral is a ex submariner

Their main priority is to contain US carrier group. Chinese carrier group can not stop a US carrier.

They are expected to mass produce ships like the 52c, yuan class and 54

[Big-E]

china does not care about india! i repeat it does not care about the indians. Sure they had past confrontations and still is a threat, but they are not worried about them. This can be seen by the number of air bases on west compared to east. It can also be seen by the lack of a indian ocean fleet.

Then why is China and Pakistan building the Gwadar Port Project???

http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2528.html
http://www.ipcs.org/China_east_asia_articles2.jsp?action=showView&kValue=1952&keyArticle=1009&issue=1009&status=article&mod=a

China wants to protect her oil supplies so she is seeking naval bases in the Indian Ocean. India is going to a 2nd tier navy in 10yrs. They are preping for something big here.

[tphuang]

Then why is China and Pakistan building the Gwadar Port Project???

http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2528.html
http://www.ipcs.org/China_east_asia_articles2.jsp?action=showView&kValue=1952&keyArticle=1009&issue=1009&status=article&mod=a

China wants to protect her oil supplies so she is seeking naval bases in the Indian Ocean. India is going to a 2nd tier navy in 10yrs. They are preping for something big here.
In general, China's focus is on US, Taiwan and Japan. Its relationship with the Japanese is worse than ever. Its a referendum away from invading Taiwan. The Japanese navy is far stronger than the Chinese navy (I don't think we even need to bring the Americans into this to see the futility of the Chinese navy). So, it's real focus is in the East. It's focus on the oil supplies is also the Americans, because America can easily choke off China's trading and oil supplies that passes through the sea lanes. That's why it's building those ports. Of course, India is between China and the main oil supply, so that would make India a potential enemy. But in reality, China would much prefer working together with India. You can see that with the recent military exchange and exercises.

[norinco89]

Are they still producing Song class subs or is it all yuan class now. How do these subs compare to each other and western or russian modern diesel subs

What does AIP do exactly and is it equiped on these subs

[norinco89]

Forget about weather Yuan and Song are in production or not.

What is AIP?

How does it work?

What does it do

[Big-E]

Forget about weather Yuan and Song are in production or not.

What is AIP?

How does it work?

What does it do

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/cno/n87/usw/issue_13/propulsion.htm

[tatra]

Forget about weather Yuan and Song are in production or not.

What is AIP?

How does it work?

What does it do

AIP = air independent propulsion

How does it work? = That depends: Currently, system developers are actively pursuing the following generic approaches for achieving "closed cycle" operation:

Nuclear power
Closed-cycle diesel engines, generally with stored liquid oxygen (LOX)
Closed-cycle steam turbines
Stirling-cycle heat engines with external combustion
Hydrogen-oxygen fuel cellsIt should be noted that while Nuclear power is technically a form of AIP, the term is used moreoften to indicate conventional (i.e. non-nuclear) solutions

What does it do? Open-cycle diesel engines, lead-acid batteries, and electric motors for submerged propulsion became the standard submarine engineering plant that served well on submarines. AIP frees boats from the necessity of surfacing frequently for access to the atmospheric oxygen demanded by the gasoline or diesel engines that charged the batteries. So, it increased underwater endurance and/or underwater speed.

[rebellious]

china does not care about india! i repeat it does not care about the indians. Sure they had past confrontations and still is a threat, but they are not worried about them. This can be seen by the number of air bases on west compared to east. It can also be seen by the lack of a indian ocean fleet.

CHINA IS WORRIED ABOUT THE EAST.

This includes the US pacific fleet, taiwan, and japan.

The main focus will be submarines for the next couple of years. The admiral is a ex submariner

Their main priority is to contain US carrier group. Chinese carrier group can not stop a US carrier.

They are expected to mass produce ships like the 52c, yuan class and 54

what do u mean they dont care about india. taiwan is weak, a small island that doesnt pose a threat. they have an ok navy but they would never attack china and no i dont think theyre 'worried' about the US or Japan, there is no signs that a WAR will break out between them.
have u heard about the indian navy spending 8 billion dollars on project seabird?! theyre making asia's largest naval base. 3 carriers.
dont believe me? go to
and look under the modern navy section and then tell me if there is a lack of a fleet. there are countless number of ships, subs, being built. right now the indian navy is stronger than china's but maybe they can counter the indian developments.

[norinco89]

Okay certainly they care but let me ask you this.

What motive would china and india want to go to war with each other?

bordor? they are settling that diplomatically and besides no one really cares about a stretch of desert.

why would china want to war with Taiwan? they might declare indepence. They cant let this happen because other semi-automous regions mite also want to this.

US pacific fleet. they might come to taiwan's rescue. They are bigger than the chinese and indian fleet put together times 3 or 4. the big fish of the sea

Japan they are engaged in a dispute over islands that contain oil and natural gas. They already have deployed warships.(just a scare)



Let me ask you what do you think is more theatening. The the japanese, taiwanese and us pacific fleet or the indian fleet which is still half under contruction?

oh yeah bases in the indian sea are only for protection of the mallaca strait. if they war with taiwan or usa certainly that strait would be closed off by the US

[tphuang]

what do u mean they dont care about india. taiwan is weak, a small island that doesnt pose a threat. they have an ok navy but they would never attack china and no i dont think theyre 'worried' about the US or Japan, there is no signs that a WAR will break out between them.
have u heard about the indian navy spending 8 billion dollars on project seabird?! theyre making asia's largest naval base. 3 carriers.
dont believe me? go to
and look under the modern navy section and then tell me if there is a lack of a fleet. there are countless number of ships, subs, being built. right now the indian navy is stronger than china's but maybe they can counter the indian developments.
Why are there always posters so intent on making India into China's number 1 enemy? Nobody here is saying India isn't building a good navy, but that China does not look at it as an enemy. South Koreans are also building a good navy, should China start worrying by them? It has much urgent concerns with US and Japan. There are political and historical reasons why China is much more concerned about them. If you don't know this, I suggest that you do a little research on this.

Honestly, don't turn this into a PLAN vs IN thread. I'm tired of these threads.

[hehejee]

In general, China's focus is on US, Taiwan and Japan. Its relationship with the Japanese is worse than ever. Its a referendum away from invading Taiwan. The Japanese navy is far stronger than the Chinese navy (I don't think we even need to bring the Americans into this to see the futility of the Chinese navy). So, it's real focus is in the East. It's focus on the oil supplies is also the Americans, because America can easily choke off China's trading and oil supplies that passes through the sea lanes. That's why it's building those ports. Of course, India is between China and the main oil supply, so that would make India a potential enemy. But in reality, China would much prefer working together with India. You can see that with the recent military exchange and exercises.

Why do you think Japanese navy is far stronger than the Chinese navy?Do you know exactly the capability of the PLAN.

[Big-E]

Okay certainly they care but let me ask you this.

What motive would china and india want to go to war with each other?

bordor? they are settling that diplomatically and besides no one really cares about a stretch of desert.

why would china want to war with Taiwan? they might declare indepence. They cant let this happen because other semi-automous regions mite also want to this.

US pacific fleet. they might come to taiwan's rescue. They are bigger than the chinese and indian fleet put together times 3 or 4. the big fish of the sea

Japan they are engaged in a dispute over islands that contain oil and natural gas. They already have deployed warships.(just a scare)



Let me ask you what do you think is more theatening. The the japanese, taiwanese and us pacific fleet or the indian fleet which is still half under contruction?

oh yeah bases in the indian sea are only for protection of the mallaca strait. if they war with taiwan or usa certainly that strait would be closed off by the US

Let me ask you this... What is the number one desire of Chinese citizens??? Do you know, its not any of the things you directly listed but is integrated to each point you make. Let me enlighten you, everyone in China wants a car. So what you might ask? Chinese energy consumption with the desire to drive an automobile means they want oil. The number one foreign policy objective of the PROC is to secure as much as they can wherever they can by any means neccesary. They don't care who they buy it from as long as they get, Iran, Venezuela it doesn't matter. This means they have to build a blue water navy to secure their trade routes. Why did they buy all those aviation cruisers? Because they want aircraft carriers. Why did they build AEGIS, b/c they want CBGs. The PLAN is going blue water folks, like it or not.

Why should they be concerned about India you ask? Because India will have 3 possibly 4 ACs in 15yrs. By this time PROC and India will be gas guzzeling giants just searching for crude. Only way to get it is by sea. Hence the Gadwar port project. The USA won't matter in this conflict b/c they will be switching to FLEX cars, (I hope). So you have India v China over oil. That's why you are seeing a naval buildup. If you don't think they will fight over oil just look at...well... enough said.

[contedicavour]

I'm not so sure the reasons for the arms build-up in China, India, South Korea and even in Japan can be tracked back to the very logical thinking of who will have better access to oil and other commodities in the next years. This surely plays a big role, fair enough.
However, seen from good old Europe, this all resembles the arms race we had in the first half of the 20th century, when powerful recently industrialized governments tried to dominate the others buying ever better battleships and fielding ever more mechanized divisions. Nationalism was the ideology that fed the arms race, and inevitably brought to confrontation despite all the trade and commercial interests that should have stopped this.
Let's just hope that good sense will prevail, and that emerging democracy will stop raw nationalism from escalading disputes. Especially in mainland China, where it would be tempting indeed to federate all Chinese, newly rich and the masses of poorer peasants in the interior, behind a message of "China against the enemy". Much more effective than whatever appeal the communist party may still have in that huge country.

Now, technically, since this is a military affairs site, I don't think it makes much sense for China to push for a blue-water navy with its current technology (even with the bits imported from Russia). The only SSBN is probably not operational, the Han class SSNs are so noisy that they can easily be followed as soon as they leave their bases, and despite some Sovremenny and DDG-51C ships, 95% of the Chinese surface escorts lack decent AAW or ASW equipment. Even the Sovremenny Russian-built DDGs have AAW missiles that are not VLS but still need to be launched like the old Mk-13 on the OH Perry USN frigates (i.e. one by one, max 7 a minute).
Priorities should be to have decent SSNs and several ships capable of defending themselves against harpoons, tomohawks, Mk48 ADCAP torpedoes and so on. A carrier with 2 dozen navalized SU-27 would be a superb asset but would probably be sunk by the Japanese or USN in no time with current SSNs and DDG/FFG.

cheers

[Big-E]

I'm not so sure the reasons for the arms build-up in China, India, South Korea and even in Japan can be tracked back to the very logical thinking of who will have better access to oil and other commodities in the next years. This surely plays a big role, fair enough.
However, seen from good old Europe, this all resembles the arms race we had in the first half of the 20th century, when powerful recently industrialized governments tried to dominate the others buying ever better battleships and fielding ever more mechanized divisions. Nationalism was the ideology that fed the arms race, and inevitably brought to confrontation despite all the trade and commercial interests that should have stopped this.
Let's just hope that good sense will prevail, and that emerging democracy will stop raw nationalism from escalading disputes. Especially in mainland China, where it would be tempting indeed to federate all Chinese, newly rich and the masses of poorer peasants in the interior, behind a message of "China against the enemy". Much more effective than whatever appeal the communist party may still have in that huge country.

Now, technically, since this is a military affairs site, I don't think it makes much sense for China to push for a blue-water navy with its current technology (even with the bits imported from Russia). The only SSBN is probably not operational, the Han class SSNs are so noisy that they can easily be followed as soon as they leave their bases, and despite some Sovremenny and DDG-51C ships, 95% of the Chinese surface escorts lack decent AAW or ASW equipment. Even the Sovremenny Russian-built DDGs have AAW missiles that are not VLS but still need to be launched like the old Mk-13 on the OH Perry USN frigates (i.e. one by one, max 7 a minute).
Priorities should be to have decent SSNs and several ships capable of defending themselves against harpoons, tomohawks, Mk48 ADCAP torpedoes and so on. A carrier with 2 dozen navalized SU-27 would be a superb asset but would probably be sunk by the Japanese or USN in no time with current SSNs and DDG/FFG.

cheers

I agree one hundred percent. I just don't think you should compare the PLAN to the USN but rather to the IN, it would be a closer match up.

[zoolander]

I was reading a article today on the PLAN. I was shooked to discover that the RIF s-300 air defence system only has a 90km range and the shitl only has a 35km range. That is only a fraction of the range of the US standard missile.

What future air defence system is the PLAN going to use.

Why is it that the naval s-300 has a 90km range while regular land one has a 300km range

[Big-E]

Why is it that the naval s-300 has a 90km range while regular land one has a 300km range

ummm, how about size.

[contedicavour]

I was reading a article today on the PLAN. I was shooked to discover that the RIF s-300 air defence system only has a 90km range and the shitl only has a 35km range. That is only a fraction of the range of the US standard missile.

What future air defence system is the PLAN going to use.

Why is it that the naval s-300 has a 90km range while regular land one has a 300km range

I didn't know the Chinese were planning to install SA-N-6 (navalized S-300) on board any of their new destroyers ? I am aware of SA-N-7 and -17 only.

[Big-E]

I didn't know the Chinese were planning to install SA-N-6 (navalized S-300) on board any of their new destroyers ? I am aware of SA-N-7 and -17 only.

Yep, their going with Grumble.

[powerslavenegi]

Let me ask you this... What is the number one desire of Chinese citizens??? Do you know, its not any of the things you directly listed but is integrated to each point you make. Let me enlighten you, everyone in China wants a car. So what you might ask? Chinese energy consumption with the desire to drive an automobile means they want oil. The number one foreign policy objective of the PROC is to secure as much as they can wherever they can by any means neccesary. They don't care who they buy it from as long as they get, Iran, Venezuela it doesn't matter. This means they have to build a blue water navy to secure their trade routes. Why did they buy all those aviation cruisers? Because they want aircraft carriers. Why did they build AEGIS, b/c they want CBGs. The PLAN is going blue water folks, like it or not.

Why should they be concerned about India you ask? Because India will have 3 possibly 4 ACs in 15yrs. By this time PROC and India will be gas guzzeling giants just searching for crude. Only way to get it is by sea. Hence the Gadwar port project. The USA won't matter in this conflict b/c they will be switching to FLEX cars, (I hope). So you have India v China over oil. That's why you are seeing a naval buildup. If you don't think they will fight over oil just look at...well... enough said.

Well I dont see India V/s China in future that too over oil.By the way was that the case for bombing Iraq and now targeting Iran interesting.:ar15

[contedicavour]

Yep, their going with Grumble.

How many destroyers with SA-N-6 are we talking about ?
I'm anxious to read the new Jane's Fighting Ships once it is published this summer... but if somebody can answer me before July it would be cool :D

[zoolander]

The s-300f has a range of 90km while the s-300fm has a range of 180km. Is it possible to to used use the s-300fm missile on a s-300f. Is there only missile difference or there is also a laucher difference.

I am a bit confused on the s-300 russian missile format with all of it different variations


on the 51c will the S-300f be in a grid style(square or rectange with hatch openings) or will it be russian revolver style or the chinese revolver style.

[Big-E]

on the 51c will the S-300f be in a grid style(square or rectange with hatch openings) or will it be russian revolver style or the chinese revolver style.

Their not using a revolver style b/c each silo has it's own cover. The missiles will be ejected unlike the Mk 41 which launches from the silo. The Chinese have yet to develop the complex venting system used by American VLS.

[norinco89]

I ask once again, are S-300 missiles interchangable.

S-300s have manny different variations. Are tube lauchers any different. Is a matter of missiles or the lauching system has to be changed too.

[Big-E]

I ask once again, are S-300 missiles interchangable.

S-300s have manny different variations. Are tube lauchers any different. Is a matter of missiles or the lauching system has to be changed too.

Depends on how big the booster is. It's not a problem of width with the launcher but depth. Switching out the tubes isn't going to make one fit over the other. 1) I doubt that a Luha design is deep enough to hold the extra stage for the longer missile. 2) Having a missile with that kind of range but not having a sensor range to go with it makes it unlikely as well.

[Jawan]

china does not care about india! i repeat it does not care about the indians. Sure they had past confrontations and still is a threat, but they are not worried about them. This can be seen by the number of air bases on west compared to east. It can also be seen by the lack of a indian ocean fleet.

CHINA IS WORRIED ABOUT THE EAST.

This includes the US pacific fleet, taiwan, and japan.

The main focus will be submarines for the next couple of years. The admiral is a ex submariner

Their main priority is to contain US carrier group. Chinese carrier group can not stop a US carrier.

They are expected to mass produce ships like the 52c, yuan class and 54


CHina is rrreally worried about INDIA(they should b). If not, there would not have been the development of Gwadar nor the massive radar station on the leased Myanmar islands to check on the Indian Navy.

Taiwan is in their sites and they are preparing the PLA for this, but no matter how much they prepare they will get "WACKED" by the US.

[Big-E]

CHina is rrreally worried about INDIA(they should b). If not, there would not have been the development of Gwadar nor the massive radar station on the leased Myanmar islands to check on the Indian Navy.

How quickly norinco forgets his history. cough 1962 Sino-Indian War cough... Not to mention Tibet, Kashmir and the multitudes of refugees cough cough. You notice he didn't deny the fact PLAN is going blue water yet doesn't acknowledge the growth of the future IN.

[contedicavour]

How quickly norinco forgets his history. cough 1962 Sino-Indian War cough... Not to mention Tibet, Kashmir and the multitudes of refugees cough cough. You notice he didn't deny the fact PLAN is going blue water yet doesn't acknowledge the growth of the future IN.

Agree, a blue water navy is more useful to tackle India than a USN carrier battle group close to its shores. To tackle a USN carrier it makes more sense to increase air force assets and potentially submarines.
Even if (nightmare scenario) the PLAN navy attacked Taiwan, land-based air cover is enough to cover the LSTs and escorts.

[norinco89]

Of course China is worried about India but the situation is ice cold compared to the events in the East. Taiwan, Japan, US are imminent threats. Something can easily spark a conflict.

India is a future rival. Notice China does not have a Western fleet or Indian ocean fleet.

a analomy to this conflict would be

China: Taiwan: India :: India: Pakistan: China

i didnt forget the 1962 conflict. That was history and it was rather minor. People learn to forgive.

[chinawhite]

If not, there would not have been the development of Gwadar nor the massive radar station on the leased Myanmar islands to check on the Indian Navy.

Gwadar is a COMMERICAL port. (at least for the chinese government)

And the listening port would be more to check up on the USN than india. Its the indian media which states that the coco islands was built to counter india. But dont forget the fact that it is a small communications base incase you decide to dramatize its importance.

[norinco89]

How does the Japanese fleet compare to the chinese fleet.

Raw facts only. i want a quantitative comparison

Start listin!:D

[contedicavour]

How does the Japanese fleet compare to the chinese fleet.

Raw facts only. i want a quantitative comparison

Start listin!:D

Japan has approx 30 main surface units (all DDG size), multi-purpose. 4 are the Kongo Aegis destroyers, 4 are large helicopter carriers just being replaced, 20 are mostly ASW units. Plus the 18 SSKs... although Japan has actually some 25, but only keeps 18 operational. I don't even mention the huge P-3C Orion maritime patrol force.

China has some 25 "destroyers" of which most are obsolete Luda ships with no real AAW. The only modern ships are 4 Sovremenny Russian DDGs and a handful of more recent locally built DDGs (Luhu, Luhai...). Plus some 30 frigates which are mostly obsolete (except for a few Jangwei class). The sub force is in theory 50+, but the 5 SSNs are obsolete, the only SSBN isn't operational, and the only modern ships are 8 Kilos and some of the new Yuan class.

The current Chinese fleet would not be able to resist the Japanese one if it ever came to blows in the North China Sea.

cheers

[norinco89]

The chinese are finishing up sea trials on alot of ships. Destoryers they are going to continue experimenting in twos. They will eventually mass produce a model they find fit.


They are developing a impoved Type 54 known as 54a. It has the shitl air defence system. It should have improved sensors, missiles and etc. It is supposed to be mass produced to replace the obsolete fleet of chinese frigates.

The new nuclear subs are victor III level which is pretty good.

The yuan diesel sub will begin be mass produced. They are rumored to have AIP and are very similar to the newer kilos.

they are also focuing on landers and etc.

air plane carrier is no where in the sights of the PLAN rite now. at least in my eyes.

[contedicavour]

The chinese are finishing up sea trials on alot of ships. Destoryers they are going to continue experimenting in twos. They will eventually mass produce a model they find fit.


They are developing a impoved Type 54 known as 54a. It has the shitl air defence system. It should have improved sensors, missiles and etc. It is supposed to be mass produced to replace the obsolete fleet of chinese frigates.

The new nuclear subs are victor III level which is pretty good.

The yuan diesel sub will begin be mass produced. They are rumored to have AIP and are very similar to the newer kilos.

they are also focuing on landers and etc.

air plane carrier is no where in the sights of the PLAN rite now. at least in my eyes.

AFAIK the SSNs under construction to replace the obsolete Han class are still far from being completed. When they will be, the subs will be already obsolescent since they are indeed based on Victor III Soviet-era design.

Most of the decently modern SSKs are Song class (14 if I recall correctly) which are inferior to Kilos in terms of noise reduction, sonars and quality of construction. I am curious to see how the Yuan will perform.

cheers

[norinco89]

the yuan class has already finished sea trials i think. It had minor problems with its torpedo tube.(it leaked at high depths) That was a couple of years ago, so i am assuming that has been solved years ago. The yuan has the basic kilo shape with song class sails. It is said to be better than the improved kilos, china has brought. With AIP, anti ship missiles, and newest russian torpedos, it is a huge improvement to the song class they beeen producing 10 years ago.

Recently china has stopped producing song classes, it is a clear indication that they will begin production of yuan class subs.

They are currently upgrading all older song classes

[norinco89]

I believe the shang class ssn are already in sea trials. correct me if i am wrong.

[contedicavour]

I believe the shang class ssn are already in sea trials. correct me if i am wrong.

I've read about the Yuan's sea trials, but not about the new class of SSNs. I'll check as soon as the new Jane's arrives early July.
Even if the new SSNs were to arrive soon, they would still be modified Victor IIIs, '70s design. The latest Japanese subs are still vastly superior to these SSNs and have a lot of training against the Russian Victors and Akulas stationed in the Russian Pacific Fleet. :)

cheers