February lastest New Process of JF-17

[myskykk]

T:p: he JF-17 type NO.4 will be tested in two mothes


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February 24, 2006 Friday Muharram 25, 1427
President describes China visit 'very important', to boost multi-faceted ties Feb 24 (APP): President General Pervez Musharraf Thursday described his visit to China as very important and said his 'substantive and positive' interaction with the Chinese leadership would boost ties in political, economic and defence fields. "The visit is very important in terms of timings and substance in the wake of changing strategic situation in the world," he told reporters while flying back home after a five-day state visit to China. Musharraf said he had substantive interaction with the Chinese leadership that covered all areas including political, economic, diplomatic, defence, continuing cooperation in the peaceful use of nuclear energy, and regional and international issues. "There was a complete understanding on all issues we discussed and there has been a very positive response," he said while referring to his one-on-one meeting with President Hu Jintao. Responding to a question, the President said that Pakistan and China had always been collaborating in the defence field. "Defence relations have been the bedrock of Sino-Pak relations." China, he added, had been giving a lot of transfer of technology "because of which collaboration has been going on for decades". The President said the Chinese government also showed their hi-tech F-10 that is comparable with any modern aircraft. 'We are very favourably disposed toward this aircraft," he added. Answering another question he said Chinese investors have shown interest in various sectors including automobile, energy, textile etc. adding that in the automobile sector, several world renowned companies were heading to Pakistan in a big way. Referring to the cartoon controversy the President rejected the excuse of freedom of press for the publication of these blasphemous images which, he added, would encourage notion of clash of civilizations. "It has taken the freedom of press to its worst limit," he added. About the unresolved political disputes including Palestine and Kashmir, he said these were the root cause of extremism and terrorism and must be addressed. (Posted @ 10:10 PST)
from the daily dawn news update section. It is likely that this is the second 4th gen fighter which has been alluded to many times by the air chief. F-16s seem to be definite....the deal was about to be notified to the Congress before the earthquake struck . J-10 (or should we start calling it F-10 now) was there at that time also....it was not the case that it was not available then but is available now. It is public knowledge that PAF evaluated this aircraft sometime back. The interesting part is going to be the engine, avionics and weapons.

[chrisrobsoar]

Interesting.

The displays are obviously from so sort of mock-up. In the background of one of the pictures a chair is visiable.

I was suprised that in the close-up of the heads-up display the switches were labled in English.

[crobato]

The displays are from a prototype simulator for the FC-1. If you have seen the entire TV video clip, there is a whole bunch of engineers in white coats all around it.

[myskykk]

:d :d :d :d :d

[chrisrobsoar]

I think I have just answered my own question.

FC-1 (Fighter China-1) Xiaolong/ Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder. A joint venture between Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC) and Pakistani Aeronautical Complex (PAC) has been developed for export market.

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/fc1.asp

The FC-1 mock-up is used to sell the aircraft to other countries; hence the equipment is labelled in English.

[SABRE]

The FC-1 mock-up is used to sell the aircraft to other countries; hence the equipment is labelled in English.

Also the aircraft is being developed with Pakistanis. Pakistani engineers and pilots cant read or speek 'Chinese', at least not all of them.

[colvin123]

Pakistan bought F-16 years ago , I think they use Englishi much easier than use Chinese .

[colvin123]

This is a model from a exhibition. Look at the air threshold, it's different ,just like F-35.

[myskykk]

Pakistan bought F-16 years ago , I think they use Englishi much easier than use Chinese .



it's supported any other language from database.
The GPS map as you saw could be translate into chinese or english.
It's just software problem!

[colvin123]

you mean just like windows xp , when install it , you just select a language, the microsoft does not make different version for every language?
maybe you are rihgt. but , as a software, English are much better than Chinese.you see ,most software are written by English .

[zoolander]

How much will this plane cost? I know its not 10 mil anymore.

[ajaybhutani]

you mean just like windows xp , when install it , you just select a language, the microsoft does not make different version for every language?
maybe you are rihgt. but , as a software, English are much better than Chinese.you see ,most software are written by English .
did u really mean " by English" or "in English" ..

[colvin123]

sorry ,that because of my poor English, I really don't know the difference.

[colvin123]

I think by Englishi means by a Englishi man , in Englishi means use this language, is that right?

[chrisrobsoar]

it's supported any other language from database.
The GPS map as you saw could be translate into chinese or english.
It's just software problem!

Yes this is OK for the “Glass Cockpit” instruments, but the problems start with the older back up instruments, levers and switches. Most of the labels are actually illuminated engraved panels. To change the language requires hardware changes. If the ability to display multiple languages was a requirement when the equipment was designed then such changes are not too difficult to accommodate. If however, this requirement was an after thought, the necessary changes can be very difficult to retrofit.

There are other considerations in particular the units used in each country.

For example: -

Horizontal Velocity: Knots (Nautical Miles per hour), Miles per Hour, Kilometres per Hour [Mach Number is standard]

Vertical Velocity: Feet/Minute, Meters/Second, Knots

Distance: Nautical Miles, Statute Miles, Kilometres

Altitude: Feet, Meters

Pressure: hPa, Millibar, inHg (inches of Mercury)

Sometimes it is easier to teach the crews to learn the language of the aircraft manufacturer. (I have flown several aircraft with mixed language instrumentation and found that when things are going well pilots can cope, when the going gets tough problems can occur).

In this case because the mock-up has English lab ling suggests that requirement for multiple languages has been considered from the start and that the aircraft is aimed at the export market.

[ajaybhutani]

I think by Englishi means by a Englishi man , in Englishi means use this language, is that right?
thats right.. just wanted to be clear as what u actually intended to say.. as "by English" is quite a debatable statement.. :D while "in english" is a fact.
regards
Ajay

[myskykk]

sorry ,that because of my poor English, I really don't know the difference.


Let's compar to Inidan LCA

To be carfully of the third one . CRT not color, not LCD !

[aaaditya]

[quote=myskykk]Let's compar to Inidan LCA

To be carfully of the third one . CRT not color, not LCD ![/quote

lca has colour lcd displays.

check www.ada.gov.in (http://www.ada.gov.in) for more info on the lca project.

[colvin123]

Compare LCA with FC-1 , we'll found LCA use 6 LCD while FC-1 use 3.
since we call this instrument as large screen multifunctional LCD, use many LCD means one LCD can only integrate limited functions.The size of LCD in FC-1 are much bigger than LCA's , so I think FC-1's cockpit is advanced than LCA, do you agree with me ?

[hovercraft]

jf-17 cockpit is looking like gripen even much better then euro fighter, and euro fighter's cockpit is too better then lca.

[hawa-ka-sipahi]

wow! thats really awesome!!
looking like a fifth generation cockpit!!!!!!!!
congrats to PAF, i didnt imagine such a beauty in Thunder's cockpit!
but how will u compare this with F-16C & F-16I block 50/52 cockpit myskykk?
and what about the SD-10 any test firing of it on JF-17 or still pending?

[aaaditya]

Compare LCA with FC-1 , we'll found LCA use 6 LCD while FC-1 use 3.
since we call this instrument as large screen multifunctional LCD, use many LCD means one LCD can only integrate limited functions.The size of LCD in FC-1 are much bigger than LCA's , so I think FC-1's cockpit is advanced than LCA, do you agree with me ?

the second image that you posted is of jf17 thunder i presume,but if the first image is of lca,then honestly you must be suffering from double vision because all we can see are three displays (left ,right centre and the hud),the rest are the subsystems of the avionics system of the aircraft.

there is no space in lca for 6 displays(it is a single engined aircraft),su30mki has 4-5 displays (3 for pilot and 2 for wso),no aircraft in the light category has 6 displays,three displays are quite common,some upgraded aircrafts have a single display also with the rest being supplemented by the conventional dials,the number of diplays has no role in how advanced an aircraft is.

i dont know about other aircrafts but the lca has dvi(digital voice input) like the ef2000 .

some of the avionics(developed by india )for the of the lca were used on the su30mki,malaysia'n su30mkm uses some avionics components developed by the hal for the su30mki from the lca under project vetrivale,so do the vietnamese su30's ,algerians have also expressed interest in the su30mki configuration and hal is expected to recieve subcontract orders for russia for this purpose.

the hud used initially for the lca was the israeli elbit hud but this was replaced by the indigenously designed csio hud which was found to be comparable in performance and capability to the israeli system,also india and israel are currently developing jointly an entire array of sensor and self defence systems for the lca.

the displays of the lca and the su30mki are currently being made by a private company known as samtel.

[aaaditya]

Compare LCA with FC-1 , we'll found LCA use 6 LCD while FC-1 use 3.
since we call this instrument as large screen multifunctional LCD, use many LCD means one LCD can only integrate limited functions.The size of LCD in FC-1 are much bigger than LCA's , so I think FC-1's cockpit is advanced than LCA, do you agree with me ?

for information on lca's avionics check out www.airforce-technology.com (http://www.airforce-technology.com) you can also get information of other modern combat aircrafts like ef2000,rafale,jsf,raptor etc for comparison purposes.

iam posting a paragraph about lca's avionics from that website(lca cockpit image available on the site):


The aircraft is fitted with a night vision compatible glass cockpit with Martin Baker (UK) zero-zero ejection seats.
The cockpit has two 76mm x 76mm colour liquid crystal multi-function displays developed by Bharat Electronics, a head up display developed by the Indian government-owned Central Scientific Instruments Organisation (CSIO) in Chandigarh, a liquid crystal return-to-home-base panel and keyboard. The pilot also has a helmet-mounted display.
The aircraft has a quadruplex fly-by-wire digital automatic flight control. The navigation suite includes a ring laser gyroscope inertial navigation system and an integrated global positioning system and inertial navigation
The communications suite includes VHF to UHF radio communications with built-in counter-countermeasures, air-to-air and air-to-ground data links and a HAL information friend-or-foe interrogator.
The cockpit is fitted with an environmental control system developed by Spectrum Infotech of Bangalore. The avionics suite has an integrated utilities' health monitoring system.


the reson why iam posting this is to state that lca is in no way inerior to the jf17 thunder.an aircraft cannot be considered as advanced just because it has fewer displays,but by the type of avionics,materials used in construction,powerplant,weapons compatibility,software ,sensors etc.

it is a factor of many things.

by the way does anyone know what fbw system does the jf17 thunder have ?

[myskykk]

wow! thats really awesome!!
looking like a fifth generation cockpit!!!!!!!!
congrats to PAF, i didnt imagine such a beauty in Thunder's cockpit!
but how will u compare this with F-16C & F-16I block 50/52 cockpit myskykk?
and what about the SD-10 any test firing of it on JF-17 or still pending?

The cockpit of JF-17 is the best of the third generation !(F-16I/S/block 60 ,EF-2000, is 3.5th generation)
I can't image J-10A/B cockpit when I sew the view of JF-17.
Much evidence approved all of testing with SD-10 and PL-12 was finished
from chinese offcial web .

[myskykk]

the second image that you posted is of jf17 thunder i presume,but if the first image is of lca,then honestly you must be suffering from double vision because all we can see are three displays (left ,right centre and the hud),the rest are the subsystems of the avionics system of the aircraft.

there is no space in lca for 6 displays(it is a single engined aircraft),su30mki has 4-5 displays (3 for pilot and 2 for wso),no aircraft in the light category has 6 displays,three displays are quite common,some upgraded aircrafts have a single display also with the rest being supplemented by the conventional dials,the number of diplays has no role in how advanced an aircraft is.

i dont know about other aircrafts but the lca has dvi(digital voice input) like the ef2000 .

some of the avionics(developed by india )for the of the lca were used on the su30mki,malaysia'n su30mkm uses some avionics components developed by the hal for the su30mki from the lca under project vetrivale,so do the vietnamese su30's ,algerians have also expressed interest in the su30mki configuration and hal is expected to recieve subcontract orders for russia for this purpose.
I
the hud used initially for the lca was the israeli elbit hud but this was replaced by the indigenously designed csio hud which was found to be comparable in performance and capability to the israeli system,also india and israel are currently developing jointly an entire array of sensor and self defence systems for the lca.

the displays of the lca and the su30mki are currently being made by a private company known as samtel.


There are no relation approve how many displays is good!
the less lage-size displays could be collection more function instead of more small-size displays less function!
Less displays let you attract all attention to main displays and made small cockpit content clean.
By the way avionics of LCA & Su-30MKK was made under frence assistance.
I don't want talk much more about LCA .....:P4
As i knew chinese would not bought SU-27/30..32..35. series forever .

[ajaybhutani]

for information on lca's avionics check out www.airforce-technology.com (http://www.airforce-technology.com) you can also get information of other modern combat aircrafts like ef2000,rafale,jsf,raptor etc for comparison purposes.

iam posting a paragraph about lca's avionics from that website(lca cockpit image available on the site):


The aircraft is fitted with a night vision compatible glass cockpit with Martin Baker (UK) zero-zero ejection seats.
The cockpit has two 76mm x 76mm colour liquid crystal multi-function displays developed by Bharat Electronics, a head up display developed by the Indian government-owned Central Scientific Instruments Organisation (CSIO) in Chandigarh, a liquid crystal return-to-home-base panel and keyboard. The pilot also has a helmet-mounted display.
The aircraft has a quadruplex fly-by-wire digital automatic flight control. The navigation suite includes a ring laser gyroscope inertial navigation system and an integrated global positioning system and inertial navigation
The communications suite includes VHF to UHF radio communications with built-in counter-countermeasures, air-to-air and air-to-ground data links and a HAL information friend-or-foe interrogator.
The cockpit is fitted with an environmental control system developed by Spectrum Infotech of Bangalore. The avionics suite has an integrated utilities' health monitoring system.


the reson why iam posting this is to state that lca is in no way inerior to the jf17 thunder.an aircraft cannot be considered as advanced just because it has fewer displays,but by the type of avionics,materials used in construction,powerplant,weapons compatibility,software ,sensors etc.

it is a factor of many things.

by the way does anyone know what fbw system does the jf17 thunder have ?
JF17 is a statically stable plane.. which in turn means that even with a digital FBW of the best kind it cannot give the kind of agility available in statically unstable planes like ef2000/rafale/lca.
in a way its not even fair to compare the LCA and jf17 airframe as the former's airframe itself gives it more agility(as its statically unstable) while the latter doesnt. add to it the ratio of composites used in the two.

[ajaybhutani]

There are no relation approve how many displays is good!
the less lage-size displays could be collection more function instead of more small-size displays less function!
Less displays let you attract all attention to main displays and made small cockpit content clean.
By the way avionics of LCA & Su-30MKK was made under frence assistance.
I don't want talk much more about LCA .....:P4
As i knew chinese would not bought SU-27/30..32..35. series forever .
arent the chineese still buying MKK2/MKK3 now or no more SUkhois for china. ??

[myskykk]

arent the chineese still buying MKK2/MKK3 now or no more SUkhois for china. ??

Yes no more SUkhois will be in china after the order of SU-30MKK2 finished.
Mybe they will got some little partation withou whole body.
The SUkhois was permitted by Russion goverment to sell SU-35&Su-37 to chinta recently. Howere it was refused by china.

[colvin123]

jf-17 cockpit is looking like gripen even much better then euro fighter, and euro fighter's cockpit is too better then lca.

I do think we must put FC-1 in a right position, it could not cmpare with the Euro fighter. At most we talk it wiht F-16 together. I'm afraid the newest version F-16 is better than FC-1,but FC-1 does really has it advantage.

[tphuang]

what is up with some of you always having to compare JF-17 to CLA?

Anyhow, we can pretty much say about the following about JF-17:
1. 3 huge MFDs and 1 HUD. The MFDs have 20 keys and can be switched to a different mode by pressing those keys. The great thing is that any of the MFDs can display any of the mode, they are not fixed.
2. The FBW package will be dependent on the buyer's needs. As AJ said, the need for FBW on JF-17 is not as important, due to the fact that it's not aerodynamically unstable like those fighters with huge delta wings. Even so, FBW does give advantages. I think you can go anywhere from analog to dual to quadriplex FBW. The Chinese FBW has all being tested on J-10. Adapting a complex FBW onto JF-17 is not a huge problem.
3. JF-17 has your usual EW suite + datalink + IRST + PD radar at the moment

compared to other cockpit, I would say that it's nice, but still not as pretty as the cockpit of super hornets and Gripen. Probably between block 50+ and block 60.

As for sukhoi, it looks like China might purchase su-33, but nothing more than that.

[colvin123]

There are no relation approve how many displays is good!
the less lage-size displays could be collection more function instead of more small-size displays less function!
Less displays let you attract all attention to main displays and made small cockpit content clean.
By the way avionics of LCA & Su-30MKK was made under frence assistance.
I don't want talk much more about LCA .....:P4
As i knew chinese would not bought SU-27/30..32..35. series forever .

I don't know how to prove my opinion, as I know , F-22,F-35, EFA,RAH-66, etc. they don't use such many LCD.

[hovercraft]

I do think we must put FC-1 in a right position, it could not cmpare with the Euro fighter. At most we talk it wiht F-16 together. I'm afraid the newest version F-16 is better than FC-1,but FC-1 does really has it advantage.

jf-17's cock pit is looking like f-16 block 50/52, gripen and yak-130. But i think f-16 block 50/52 and gripen is more advanced.

but it has to much difference with euro fighter.