Gollevainen
December 3rd, 2005, 09:06 AM
Part I
Early days
Introduction
Although Soviet Union had the second largest naval forces during the cold war, almost exceeding USN in some aspects, it always lacked behind the biggest western navies in one important field: Aircraft operations in offshore seas e.g. lacked potent Aircraft carriers until the very end. Admiral Kuznetsov (project 1143.5) was nearly entering service prior the soviet collapse.
This essay is meant to give bit more deeper insight to Soviet carrier development, its achievements and most importantly to trying to give answer to why these major aspects of modern naval warfare never gained the appreciation it certainly should have deserved in Soviet Union. In this essay, the main focus will be in the post-WWII era before the first aviation capable ship Moskva class (project 1123) and again in the late seventies and early eighties when the conventional operated aircraft carrier decisions where made.
As this essay was orginally posted by me in the sinodefencefroum.com so the later part of it is dedicated to compare Chinese aircraft carrier program to the Soviet one and trying to find out what is the best direction where China should go. I have sofar wrote two of the possible trhee or four parts and I try to update this one par with the orginal topic in the sinodefence..
The idea of sort of “re-opening” soviet carrier discussion couse the author has received major update on the matter, mainly due gaining access to numbers of Russian military magazines called “Morskaja Kollektija”. Also by almost a gift from various gods and goddesses, good collection of previously unknown (at least to the author) pictures and drawings of several soviet carrier designs fallen to authors hands. This led to more comprehensive understandment of previous material already existing in the author’s collection.
This essay will be in its most honest meaning, an effort to share this new knowledge to rest of the forum community. All fact-errors are mostly due the limits of authors Russian skills (none existing) and therefore the need to rely on available mechanical translation services, mostly Babel fish- internet translator provided by AltaVista. Any corrections or additional information is indeed greatly appreciated.
Note: This essay will be posted in three parts due the limitations of picture posting in our forum. Part I covers early days, pre- and post WWII era, Part II consecrates on project 1123 and 1143 and Finally part III focuses on the conventional carrier plans since 1960’s and onwards up to the Admiral kuznetsov Also it remains still unclear whether the part of Chinese and soviet carrier development comparison will be in the third part or form a part IV on it’s own. I post all sources in the along with the last part...but as for hand most of the pics can be aknowlidged to Edgar Guerrero...
It is common believe and missknowlidge that soviets weren’t interested of carriers until the building of Admiral kuznetsov. That somehow they were stucked to primitive and aging thinking in naval matters. It certainly wasn’t the case. It is somewhat ironical that the most sticking single factor of Soviet Union never had true fixed wing aviation onboard before its collapse isn’t too ageing thinking, but on the contrary too modern and unrealistic plans made by the government that followed Stalin after his death.
It was Stalin’s era when the most ambitious naval constructive plans were made, most notably the 1938-42 Five year plan which called for two carriers to be built for northern and pacific fleets, one for each. Although this was the first time when carrier plans were made this far, it was as early as 1925-26 when aircraft carriers were first toughed. After the Revolution Soviets gained most of the Tsarist Russian fleet, but many of the ships still building phase never entered soviet naval service. During those chaos-days, many ships were captured by Germans and Entente states. Some unfinished hulls were simply sold for scrapping.
This was the case whit Borodino class battle cruisers. These 30,000 ton, 228 meter length ships armed whit 12 356mm guns were being build in Baltic SY at Leningrad. Of the four ships, only Izmail was not sold to Germany for breaking up and there where serious thoughts of it being converted to aircraft carrier. These plans never got any further and the ship was broken up at Leningrad in 1931. Similar plans where also made about the fourth Gangut class battleship Frunze which unlike her three sisters never received moderninsation and was thus used as a floating barracks at Neva.
From objective point of view, these plans were unrealistic for the Soviet Union’s capabilities at the time, but serve as an example that carriers weren’t totally alien to soviet naval thinking. Things got much more serious as the whole soviet naval constructive plans evolved. Coming to the 30’s Soviet naval building was rapidly increasing. First monumental steps were the introducing Kirov (project 26) class cruisers in 1937 followed by the near sister class Maxim Gorky (project 26bis). The above mentioned 1938-42 five year plan called new battleships and battle cruisers to be build. Also 17 Chapaev (Project 68K) class light cruisers was to be build, but only five where eventually completed, and thus the sole survivors of the pre-war “large sea and oceanic fleet” plans. The two mentioned carriers served similar fate as the battleships; WWII just came at the wrong time.
Under this five year plan, two 13,000 ton carriers were to be build. Some preliminary sketches and studies were made as early as in 1936 by the TsKB-45, the main design bureau for large surface combatants at that time.
The TTZ was issued in 1938. The ships now under project 71 would have been displacement 10600 tons light, 11300 tons standard and 13150 tons full load. Length would have been 195 meters in waterline. Armament would have consisted 3 twin 130 mm B-24 guns, 8 single 100mm B-34 guns and four quadrupled 37mm 46-K AA guns. Aviation assets required 30 torpedo bombers and 15 fighters. Planes would have been stored in 148m x 18m x 6m hangar served by two lifts. Two pneumatic catapults with a length of 24 m each, which had to give the takeoff speed of 110 km/h to aircraft mass to 4 t was also planned. These ships were supposedly to be based on the Chapaev hulls and featured similar machinery. Funnels were to be faced downwards as in Japanese carrier Akagi. These ships were to be launched 1941 and 1942. When the war broke out nothing dramatical had been done to this project. TTZ was touched several times and event of the war was affecting the design by e.g. adding additional AA armament to the ships. Also one interesting notice must be said at this point. When Indonesia bought a Sverdlov (project 68bis, an post-war follower for the Chapaev class) in 1962, there were also talks about aircraft carrier being made from Sverdlov- class hulls. Nothing came out of this but it raises questions whether it would have resampled the project 71.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7606/715xb1jg.jpg
linedrawing of the project 71
As the ship was based on the cruiser hull of project 68, it was very likely that soviets would have been able to launch the ship. They didn’t do it and in 1942 the carrier planning raised again and it was soon discovered that the project 71 was obsolete in many aspects. Some sort of redesign was made in the form of project 716, but little is know of this design. It was to have machinery and mechanical parts from the same time planned Project 69 Battle cruisers (Kronstad class). Displacement would have been 24050 tons standard and 30600 t Full loads. Length was to be 230 meters in water line. This design was given low priority and nothing of it was heard after the end of WWII.
New TTZ was launched in January 1943 and was led by doctor of naval sciences professor Vice Admiral L. g. Goncharov. Much more intense studies were made and results from those came the project 72. Overall dimensions the ship would have resembled British Illustrious class as the Project 72 would have been 224 meters length (tough some sources state 250 meters) and 28800 tons full load displacement. Armament was first toughted to be 8 dual 130 mm, but was later changed to 8 dual 85mm. Also 12 dual 37mm and 8 dual 23 mm AA guns where planned. These designs used data acquired form Germany just prior the war. Total of 60 aircraft were toughed stored in 130m x 20.5m hangar. Soviet delegations visited then still building carrier Craft Zeppelin and also other carrier experience around world was studied.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/5083/726rh4fu.jpg
Project 72 from the overview can be seen the similarity to Illustrious class
In 1945 a commission was formed to submit results of the redesign of all warship project based on the wartime experience. This also includes the carrier program. It remains bit uncertain whether the project 72 survived this or not. The commission suggested that specialist be send to aboard allied carriers to gain more experience. They even suggested that soviets should try to buy or lent an Essex class carrier from USA. Obviously these were quite unrealistic plans and nothing came up from them. Ultimately the commission proposed light, escort, fleet and heavy carriers; the difference between light and escort carriers would have been in terms of speed and armour.
In all thirty-three variants were developed, twenty-four for escort, three for light, four for fleet and two for heavy carriers. For example all escort carriers would have accommodated 24 fighters and 18 ASW aircrafts.
Probably one of those proposed projects where project 69AV, aircraft carrier based on the cancelled project 69 class battlecruiser (Kronstad) It may have been follow on design of the project 716 mentioned above. Standard displacement would have been 32000 t and 38680 tons for full load. Length was 240 meters and width 29.5 meters. 160m x 26m hangar served by three lift accommodated total of 76 aircrafts. This design was probably been one of the light carrier designs.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/3700/69av7ps5ko.jpg
Poject 69AV
There was also, probably one of the fleet carrier designs, called Kostromitinova. It measured 280 meters length in waterline with 40800 tons empty, 45300 standard and 51200 tons full load. 178m x 16m hangar supporting 66 fighters and 40 torpedo bombers. Armament was to be 8 dual 152mm, 4 triple (?) 100mm, 8 quad 37mm and 22 dual 23mm. Finally, the heavy carrier, which would have been 82370 tons displacement and 350 meters in length. Stalin approved Admiral Kuznetsovs suggestion that least two carriers should have been included for the Post-war fleet building-ups. Eventually Stalin came to different minds and no carriers were included in the 1946-55 shipbuilding programme.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/8638/kostromitinova1py2uc.jpg
Project Kosrtomitinova
The main defender of carriers in soviet leadership was Admiral N G Kuznetsov. Whereas Stalin had nearly obsessed need for Battleships and Batllecruisers being included in the soviet navy, Kuznetsov where much more aware of the rapid development in naval strategy. Kuzenetsov was a strong mined individual and was one of the few who actually dared to go against Stalin. He did share his bite on the Stalins sanctions and was priefly assigned to Pacific fleets commander. He returned to his orginal post of head of the soviet fleet in 1951.
Soviet carrier plans did not resume until Stalin’s death in 1953. Two pre-project designs where made in 1954. One by TsKB-17 and other by the navy’s internal design studies organisation TSNII-45. Each of these designs carried 40 aircrafts. TsKB-17 version would have displaced 30,555t, with speed of 34 knots. It was provably called project 85 which bears strong similarity to US Essex class (after SCB-27C) and French Foch class. TsNII-45 suggested 21,000t with speed of 32, 5 knots. These plans came their end in 1955 when Soviets new premier Khrushcev who fired Kuznetsov, officially because the disastrous sinking of the battleship Novorossiysk but more likely because Kuznetsov was strong supporter of large surface oriented fleet. Khrushcev had other plans. “Revolution in military affairs” descriped more specifically in the Part II, seized all soviet large surface ship development for a while including the ongoing carrier program. It remains unclear if these carrier plans would have survived if some other of the runners for Stalin’s throne would have exceeded better than Khruschev. That is for certain that the RMA thinking did more harm to soviet carrier plans than any other single factor. Although first soviet aircraft-carrying ships were approved by Krhuschev, they were in fact quite different than traditional carriers with completely different roles. All later soviet aviation ships were in event followers of this first major decision which is often judged to be crucial mistake.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/852/pr859qh5ij.jpg
Project 85, note the similarity with French Clemencea and Foch.
Early days
Introduction
Although Soviet Union had the second largest naval forces during the cold war, almost exceeding USN in some aspects, it always lacked behind the biggest western navies in one important field: Aircraft operations in offshore seas e.g. lacked potent Aircraft carriers until the very end. Admiral Kuznetsov (project 1143.5) was nearly entering service prior the soviet collapse.
This essay is meant to give bit more deeper insight to Soviet carrier development, its achievements and most importantly to trying to give answer to why these major aspects of modern naval warfare never gained the appreciation it certainly should have deserved in Soviet Union. In this essay, the main focus will be in the post-WWII era before the first aviation capable ship Moskva class (project 1123) and again in the late seventies and early eighties when the conventional operated aircraft carrier decisions where made.
As this essay was orginally posted by me in the sinodefencefroum.com so the later part of it is dedicated to compare Chinese aircraft carrier program to the Soviet one and trying to find out what is the best direction where China should go. I have sofar wrote two of the possible trhee or four parts and I try to update this one par with the orginal topic in the sinodefence..
The idea of sort of “re-opening” soviet carrier discussion couse the author has received major update on the matter, mainly due gaining access to numbers of Russian military magazines called “Morskaja Kollektija”. Also by almost a gift from various gods and goddesses, good collection of previously unknown (at least to the author) pictures and drawings of several soviet carrier designs fallen to authors hands. This led to more comprehensive understandment of previous material already existing in the author’s collection.
This essay will be in its most honest meaning, an effort to share this new knowledge to rest of the forum community. All fact-errors are mostly due the limits of authors Russian skills (none existing) and therefore the need to rely on available mechanical translation services, mostly Babel fish- internet translator provided by AltaVista. Any corrections or additional information is indeed greatly appreciated.
Note: This essay will be posted in three parts due the limitations of picture posting in our forum. Part I covers early days, pre- and post WWII era, Part II consecrates on project 1123 and 1143 and Finally part III focuses on the conventional carrier plans since 1960’s and onwards up to the Admiral kuznetsov Also it remains still unclear whether the part of Chinese and soviet carrier development comparison will be in the third part or form a part IV on it’s own. I post all sources in the along with the last part...but as for hand most of the pics can be aknowlidged to Edgar Guerrero...
It is common believe and missknowlidge that soviets weren’t interested of carriers until the building of Admiral kuznetsov. That somehow they were stucked to primitive and aging thinking in naval matters. It certainly wasn’t the case. It is somewhat ironical that the most sticking single factor of Soviet Union never had true fixed wing aviation onboard before its collapse isn’t too ageing thinking, but on the contrary too modern and unrealistic plans made by the government that followed Stalin after his death.
It was Stalin’s era when the most ambitious naval constructive plans were made, most notably the 1938-42 Five year plan which called for two carriers to be built for northern and pacific fleets, one for each. Although this was the first time when carrier plans were made this far, it was as early as 1925-26 when aircraft carriers were first toughed. After the Revolution Soviets gained most of the Tsarist Russian fleet, but many of the ships still building phase never entered soviet naval service. During those chaos-days, many ships were captured by Germans and Entente states. Some unfinished hulls were simply sold for scrapping.
This was the case whit Borodino class battle cruisers. These 30,000 ton, 228 meter length ships armed whit 12 356mm guns were being build in Baltic SY at Leningrad. Of the four ships, only Izmail was not sold to Germany for breaking up and there where serious thoughts of it being converted to aircraft carrier. These plans never got any further and the ship was broken up at Leningrad in 1931. Similar plans where also made about the fourth Gangut class battleship Frunze which unlike her three sisters never received moderninsation and was thus used as a floating barracks at Neva.
From objective point of view, these plans were unrealistic for the Soviet Union’s capabilities at the time, but serve as an example that carriers weren’t totally alien to soviet naval thinking. Things got much more serious as the whole soviet naval constructive plans evolved. Coming to the 30’s Soviet naval building was rapidly increasing. First monumental steps were the introducing Kirov (project 26) class cruisers in 1937 followed by the near sister class Maxim Gorky (project 26bis). The above mentioned 1938-42 five year plan called new battleships and battle cruisers to be build. Also 17 Chapaev (Project 68K) class light cruisers was to be build, but only five where eventually completed, and thus the sole survivors of the pre-war “large sea and oceanic fleet” plans. The two mentioned carriers served similar fate as the battleships; WWII just came at the wrong time.
Under this five year plan, two 13,000 ton carriers were to be build. Some preliminary sketches and studies were made as early as in 1936 by the TsKB-45, the main design bureau for large surface combatants at that time.
The TTZ was issued in 1938. The ships now under project 71 would have been displacement 10600 tons light, 11300 tons standard and 13150 tons full load. Length would have been 195 meters in waterline. Armament would have consisted 3 twin 130 mm B-24 guns, 8 single 100mm B-34 guns and four quadrupled 37mm 46-K AA guns. Aviation assets required 30 torpedo bombers and 15 fighters. Planes would have been stored in 148m x 18m x 6m hangar served by two lifts. Two pneumatic catapults with a length of 24 m each, which had to give the takeoff speed of 110 km/h to aircraft mass to 4 t was also planned. These ships were supposedly to be based on the Chapaev hulls and featured similar machinery. Funnels were to be faced downwards as in Japanese carrier Akagi. These ships were to be launched 1941 and 1942. When the war broke out nothing dramatical had been done to this project. TTZ was touched several times and event of the war was affecting the design by e.g. adding additional AA armament to the ships. Also one interesting notice must be said at this point. When Indonesia bought a Sverdlov (project 68bis, an post-war follower for the Chapaev class) in 1962, there were also talks about aircraft carrier being made from Sverdlov- class hulls. Nothing came out of this but it raises questions whether it would have resampled the project 71.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7606/715xb1jg.jpg
linedrawing of the project 71
As the ship was based on the cruiser hull of project 68, it was very likely that soviets would have been able to launch the ship. They didn’t do it and in 1942 the carrier planning raised again and it was soon discovered that the project 71 was obsolete in many aspects. Some sort of redesign was made in the form of project 716, but little is know of this design. It was to have machinery and mechanical parts from the same time planned Project 69 Battle cruisers (Kronstad class). Displacement would have been 24050 tons standard and 30600 t Full loads. Length was to be 230 meters in water line. This design was given low priority and nothing of it was heard after the end of WWII.
New TTZ was launched in January 1943 and was led by doctor of naval sciences professor Vice Admiral L. g. Goncharov. Much more intense studies were made and results from those came the project 72. Overall dimensions the ship would have resembled British Illustrious class as the Project 72 would have been 224 meters length (tough some sources state 250 meters) and 28800 tons full load displacement. Armament was first toughted to be 8 dual 130 mm, but was later changed to 8 dual 85mm. Also 12 dual 37mm and 8 dual 23 mm AA guns where planned. These designs used data acquired form Germany just prior the war. Total of 60 aircraft were toughed stored in 130m x 20.5m hangar. Soviet delegations visited then still building carrier Craft Zeppelin and also other carrier experience around world was studied.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/5083/726rh4fu.jpg
Project 72 from the overview can be seen the similarity to Illustrious class
In 1945 a commission was formed to submit results of the redesign of all warship project based on the wartime experience. This also includes the carrier program. It remains bit uncertain whether the project 72 survived this or not. The commission suggested that specialist be send to aboard allied carriers to gain more experience. They even suggested that soviets should try to buy or lent an Essex class carrier from USA. Obviously these were quite unrealistic plans and nothing came up from them. Ultimately the commission proposed light, escort, fleet and heavy carriers; the difference between light and escort carriers would have been in terms of speed and armour.
In all thirty-three variants were developed, twenty-four for escort, three for light, four for fleet and two for heavy carriers. For example all escort carriers would have accommodated 24 fighters and 18 ASW aircrafts.
Probably one of those proposed projects where project 69AV, aircraft carrier based on the cancelled project 69 class battlecruiser (Kronstad) It may have been follow on design of the project 716 mentioned above. Standard displacement would have been 32000 t and 38680 tons for full load. Length was 240 meters and width 29.5 meters. 160m x 26m hangar served by three lift accommodated total of 76 aircrafts. This design was probably been one of the light carrier designs.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/3700/69av7ps5ko.jpg
Poject 69AV
There was also, probably one of the fleet carrier designs, called Kostromitinova. It measured 280 meters length in waterline with 40800 tons empty, 45300 standard and 51200 tons full load. 178m x 16m hangar supporting 66 fighters and 40 torpedo bombers. Armament was to be 8 dual 152mm, 4 triple (?) 100mm, 8 quad 37mm and 22 dual 23mm. Finally, the heavy carrier, which would have been 82370 tons displacement and 350 meters in length. Stalin approved Admiral Kuznetsovs suggestion that least two carriers should have been included for the Post-war fleet building-ups. Eventually Stalin came to different minds and no carriers were included in the 1946-55 shipbuilding programme.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/8638/kostromitinova1py2uc.jpg
Project Kosrtomitinova
The main defender of carriers in soviet leadership was Admiral N G Kuznetsov. Whereas Stalin had nearly obsessed need for Battleships and Batllecruisers being included in the soviet navy, Kuznetsov where much more aware of the rapid development in naval strategy. Kuzenetsov was a strong mined individual and was one of the few who actually dared to go against Stalin. He did share his bite on the Stalins sanctions and was priefly assigned to Pacific fleets commander. He returned to his orginal post of head of the soviet fleet in 1951.
Soviet carrier plans did not resume until Stalin’s death in 1953. Two pre-project designs where made in 1954. One by TsKB-17 and other by the navy’s internal design studies organisation TSNII-45. Each of these designs carried 40 aircrafts. TsKB-17 version would have displaced 30,555t, with speed of 34 knots. It was provably called project 85 which bears strong similarity to US Essex class (after SCB-27C) and French Foch class. TsNII-45 suggested 21,000t with speed of 32, 5 knots. These plans came their end in 1955 when Soviets new premier Khrushcev who fired Kuznetsov, officially because the disastrous sinking of the battleship Novorossiysk but more likely because Kuznetsov was strong supporter of large surface oriented fleet. Khrushcev had other plans. “Revolution in military affairs” descriped more specifically in the Part II, seized all soviet large surface ship development for a while including the ongoing carrier program. It remains unclear if these carrier plans would have survived if some other of the runners for Stalin’s throne would have exceeded better than Khruschev. That is for certain that the RMA thinking did more harm to soviet carrier plans than any other single factor. Although first soviet aircraft-carrying ships were approved by Krhuschev, they were in fact quite different than traditional carriers with completely different roles. All later soviet aviation ships were in event followers of this first major decision which is often judged to be crucial mistake.
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/852/pr859qh5ij.jpg
Project 85, note the similarity with French Clemencea and Foch.