Russia Threatens to Retain Brahmos Source Code

[gf0012-aust]

No link available for this item as it is part of an email advice I'm subscribed to. This is from BATTLESPACE. UPDATE Vol.7 ISSUE 40


RUSSIA THREATENS TO RETAIN BrahMos SOURCE CODE
By Bulbul Singh

10 Oct 05. Russia has threatened that it will not give away the source code which will enable the supersonic Cruise missile BrahMos to be mounted on foreign made platforms, including the recently contracted French Scorpene or the Multirole Medium Range Combat Aircraft (MMRCA)which India is buying from the global market.

Sources in the Indian defense ministry say, Moscow has made it known to the Indian defense planners that there is no guarantee that it will allow India to mount the BrahMos cruise missile on third country platforms until the Intellectual Property Rights (IPR)dispute is settled.

Sources in the Indian defense ministry however say it is part of Moscow's pressure in the run up to the MMRCA procurement program of the Indian government.

India is on a global hunt for a contract worth $5bn for the procurement of 126 MMRCA for the Indian Air Force into which Russia has also fielded its MiG 29 SMT aircraft. The other contenders are Dassault of France with the Mirage 2000-5; Saab of Sweden with the Gripen; Lockheed Martin of United States with the F-16 and Boeing of United States with the F-18.

An executive of the Rosoboronoexport of Russia based in New Delhi however said, Russia is perturbed over the delay in the settlement of the IPR issue adding that it is not possible for Russia to contribute hi-tech technologies to India without much return.

The BrahMos anti-ship supersonic cruise missile is a joint development effort of India and Russia in which India's defense research agency, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)is contracted with NPOM of the Russian Federation.

The BrahMos, which is being introduced into the Indian Navy, is a 300 kilometers range supersonic anti ship cruise missile and the land and sea versions of the Cruise missiles are also being tested. The missile is one of the most potent precision guided weapons developed for the Indian armed forces in recent.

However Russia now insists that the BrahMos export, and other technological aspects including the source code, should be linked to the solving of the IPR issue which has held back further research and development between India and Russia. In fact there has been no signing of any defense contract between India and Russia since the United Progressive Alliance government came to power in May 2004.

Russia has held back the lease of a nuclear submarine, the TU-22 Backfire bomber capable of delivery nuclear weapons, and various other weapons and equipment under negotiations between India and Russia for several years.

The sticky parts of the IPR issue are the supply of spares from Russia for even erstwhile USSR-made weaponry currently with the Indian defense forces. The other issue is the up-grading of the Russian made systems by a third country. India is contemplating the upgrade of a large chunk of its USSR weapons and equipment with Western technology, a move that is not to the liking of the Russians. It is estimated that the upgrade market alone of aging USSR weapons with the Indian defense forces is around $10 to $15bn.

“The threat of Russia now allowing mounting of the BrahMos cruise missile on a third country platform is only an arms twisting policy to which Moscow often resorts,” said an Indian Army official.

However an Indian Air Force official admitted that the acquisition of BrahMos could be linked to the sale of the MIG 29SMT by the Russians.

The Mirage 2000-5 of France is the most favored aircraft within the Indian Air Force for the MMRCA. The procurement of MMRCA will however be a political decision.

[adsH]

so let me get this straight the Russians only have a single piece, which they plan to use as a bargaining chip, the Fire control system of Missile.

[gf0012-aust]

so let me get this straight the Russians only have a single piece, which they plan to use as a bargaining chip, the Fire control system of Missile.

In absolute real terms, Brahmos is a Yakhont/P800 with an Indian Guidance system - so the Russians own far more IP in the missile than the FCS.

Under MCTR they were obliged to ensure that they didn't sell India a missile which had greater than 300km range.

To reduce that meant taking away the Russian Guidance modules which were Glonass dependant and thus making the missile depenadant on different guidance technology. Removing Glonass also meant that the FCS would need to be changed as well. Once India developed it's own guidance and FCS integration, to all intents and purposes it became indigenous - ipso facto it meant that they could sell that missile in their own right. It also means that as an indigenous missile, they can now legally make their own 300km plus model and not be in breach, or put the Russians in breach. Legally, its a somewhat tenuous position and a classic example of how to dance around the rules. ;)

The irony of all this is that India and Russia have been talking about installing Glonass connectivity into Brahmos and for India to co-fund an extension to the Glonass network. To all intents and purposes that means that they now have a Brahmos that would in real terms (once Glonass connectivity is added) - is actually a legacy (but extremely close variant) of the Yakhont/P800

The Russians don't necessarily see that having Yakhont "Mk2" being made available for export on the world market in competition with a Russian Yakhont as being entirely healthy for their own arms business.

Either way, its turned full circle or will be turning full circle if Glonass access/connectivity is ever installed.

IMHO It's more than just an issue of a FCS. There are lots of issues here not being spoken about openly, and the fact that it's taken a few years and still no signing of agreement means that it is a contentious issue for the Russians.

I would suspect that this is one of the reasons why India has demonstrated a greater willingness to now buy non Russian weapons, and why the Americans, French, Brits and Germans are alll renewing their efforts to sell their kit in a more robust fashion.

This isn't as "huggy" and easy to fix as its being portrayed.

[kashifshahzad]

This Indian MRCAs talk started again i am getting bored from the aquisition of aircrafts by the India and Pakistan they cant get to a final point and pressure is increasing from the manufacturers.Here the topic is Brahmos, india would surely want its Brahmos to be used on the SU30s and also on the brand new MRCAs this would give a boost to Indian capibilities.

And above all which gf0012-aust have mentioned that Russia havent supplied a missile having range above 300km i want to mention here that Russia didnt supplied a cruise missile having greater range then 300km.If a varient comes then that might have a range near to 500km.And in Pakistan they have a missile having initial range of 500km the varient will surely have a range above 800-1000km which will be a real threat to the Indian forces.Now the Indian defence officials must take it seriously other wise they are going to lose the Brahmos and along with that the Russia's other defence equipment which India is currently using.This thing can also give a way to PAF for the aquisition of Su30s which India would surely dont want.

I firstly thought that Russia was only going to introduce a compitator plane in the list of planes which India might go for but Russia dont want to get out from the defence list of India which is a biggest importer of defenceive materials other then the China.In simple words this is called black mailing.Russia must be concentrating on the ability of the plane to compete the other competators in the world rather then going for this kind of thing.

The case is different with the PAF and US relations.PAF is not required to take permission from the US for the third plane which would be included in the PAF's inventory and the US dont see that there is an ally in the neighbour of India which will get hurt from the aquisition of US MRCAs.

[srirangan]

This Indian MRCAs talk started again i am getting bored from the aquisition of aircrafts by the India and Pakistan they cant get to a final point and pressure is increasing from the manufacturers.Here the topic is Brahmos, india would surely want its Brahmos to be used on the SU30s and also on the brand new MRCAs this would give a boost to Indian capibilities.
This is a Brahmos-Glosnass-IPR topic. The author only speculates about the MRCA deal whereas AFP/Reuters and more importantly PTI reports confirm that the Russian concern is with regard to the signing of the IPR.


And above all which gf0012-aust have mentioned that Russia havent supplied a missile having range above 300km i want to mention here that Russia didnt supplied a cruise missile having greater range then 300km.If a varient comes then that might have a range near to 500km.And in Pakistan they have a missile having initial range of 500km the varient will surely have a range above 800-1000km which will be a real threat to the Indian forces.Now the Indian defence officials must take it seriously other wise they are going to lose the Brahmos and along with that the Russia's other defence equipment which India is currently using.This thing can also give a way to PAF for the aquisition of Su30s which India would surely dont want.

Russia can't supply a missile more than the 300KM range due to international obligations. That being said doesn't discount the possibility of a Brahmos 2 being developed. Afaik it has been reported that work is being done on to develope more than 2 types of Brahmos variants.

I firstly thought that Russia was only going to introduce a compitator plane in the list of planes which India might go for but Russia dont want to get out from the defence list of India which is a biggest importer of defenceive materials other then the China.In simple words this is called black mailing.Russia must be concentrating on the ability of the plane to compete the other competators in the world rather then going for this kind of thing.
Well yea it is blackmailing. But the Russians aren't the only one's indulging in it. The Americans and French aren't too far behind.

The case is different with the PAF and US relations.PAF is not required to take permission from the US for the third plane which would be included in the PAF's inventory and the US dont see that there is an ally in the neighbour of India which will get hurt from the aquisition of US MRCAs.
What do you mean?

[srirangan]

The Russians don't necessarily see that having Yakhont "Mk2" being made available for export on the world market in competition with a Russian Yakhont as being entirely healthy for their own arms business.
Unlikely as the Yakhont isn't available for export in the first place, neither could the Yakhont "MK2" be available as it would face the same dilema of violating the MCTR's.

[gf0012-aust]

I want to ask why Russia cant have a missile having range more then 300km.

Russia can have a missile greater than 300km in range. It's an MTCR issue of which Russia is a signatory.

I can see that Pakistan also didnt imported a missile having a range more then 300km (Chineese M-11).Every country should have a right to export except nuclear capibility ( except that of for energy) Thats because China is a signatory to MTCR as well. Exporting nuclear capability has got nothing to do with MTCR compliance breaches.


I mean to say that Russia have allowed India to go for French made ACs i.e., Mirage 2000s and obviously India have a lot of Russian made ACs but Russia is feeling angry on the purchase of US ACs.Russia didn't "allow" India to do anything - the Indian Govt decides what it wants to do by itself. All thats happening is a game of commercial leverage.

1) But PAF have Chineese ACs ( A5,F-7(PG) and previously F-6 ) and also PAF can induct more ( may be some J-10 if Pakistan will have money and also can be a 50% partner in the stealthy J-12 (J-XX) ).
2) PAF have French Mirages US didnt had any tension with that.
3) PAF have US F-16s which are in is a frontline fighter in PAF's inventory.
and lastly PAF can induct a Russian Fighter if supplied ( SU30 and its varients) US will surely not have any objection.

None of this has anything to do with India, Russia and Brahmos - stay on topic. :smash

And also there was no such kind of agreement which India do in the defence markets India says we can buy al kind of defence materials from you and we can pay you a lot of money for that but but you wil not supply this material to Pakistan.Pakistan is not restricted to buy only US goods and US is not restricted to only supply goods to Pakistan US can also supply goods to India.

India can do and buy whatever she wants - she's a sovereign state.

[gf0012-aust]

Unlikely as the Yakhont isn't available for export in the first place, neither could the Yakhont "MK2" be available as it would face the same dilema of violating the MCTR's.

Yes, I kind of forgot about that small but significant detail. ;)

[WebMaster]

Thread moved from missile section to Defence Prof discussions. Enjoy!

[gf0012-aust]

Yes, I kind of forgot about that small but significant detail. ;)
Sri, although India has been keen to bring Brahmos Mk1 to an export market.