Indian Army News and Discussion

[aaaditya]

indian army is to rapidly upgrade it army air wing with new helicopters.

Army in an overdrive, to buy 197 choppers

Posted online: Sunday, September 04, 2005 at 1133 hours IST
Updated: Sunday, September 04, 2005 at 1139 hours IST

New Delhi, September 4: In its major drive underway to modernise all arms--Infantry, Armour, Artillery and Mechanised units--army has finalised plans to expand its aviation wing with acquisition of 197 light helicopters as also to equip itself with light helicopter gunships for use in high-altitude areas.
Top officials said army was awaiting the nod from the government for rapid expansion of its air fleet, after making a strong case for having its own medium lift transport helicopters, assault choppers, anti-tank combat helicopters and for the first time, to have limited number of light fixed wing aircraft.


Army officials have lamented lack of close air support in counter-isurgency operations, high-altitude areas and during Kargil operations to press for expansion of its air arm. The contract for 197 light helicopters to replace its ageing fleet of Cheetahs and Chetaks is almost at the final stages with two major bidders, the Eurocopter and American Bell Textron completing their second and final round of summer trials in Jammu and Kashmir and Rajasthan.
The Army Aviation Corp proposes to buy 55 helicopters outright and the remaining 142-odd be built under licence at Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics in a deal estimated to be worth more 500 million US dollars.
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=53930#compstory

well here are the contenders:
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as555_fennec/
couldnt find info on bell407
i beleive all of them are capable of being used for anti tank roles.:coffee


well here is the info on bell407 it can carry hellfire missile while the fennec can carry the tow misssiles.

Website: http://www.bellhelicopter.com (http://www.bellhelicopter.com/)
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/military/ARH/bellarh-72.pdf

[driftder]

hmmm...fennec helicopter? Light scouts with some AT capability. We happen to use them too on our side. Good for insertion, rather quiet.

[aaaditya]

i would consider bell407 equipped with the hellfire a killer combo best suited for indian army.:coffee

[aaaditya]

finally the excalibur is coming and it is ambidextrous.



New, improved rifles for the Indian ArmyDeveloped by Pune’s ARDE, the upgraded INSAS is awaiting orders.

Pune, September 7: THE much-needed under barrel grenade launcher upgrade to the INSAS (Indian Small Arms Systems) rifle is finally ready and city-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) says that they are awaiting Army orders. The good news is that the new launcher developed by ARDE is ‘flexible’ and can even be fitted to the AK-47s used by the armed forces. The indigenous INSAS rifle, which was developed to equip the Army with cutting edge technology, was being held back as it did not have an under barrel grenade launcher and night fighting capabilities. In the absence of these, the Army was forced to order 3,400 Isreali made Tavor 21 rifles in October 2002.
The Army is also eagerly waiting for the carbine variant of INSAS to be used by field commanders. ‘‘The carbine version is also ready and is undergoing user trails at the moment,’’ said AS Rajagopal, director, ARDE at a recent armament meet. While the carbine may take some time before it can be inducted into the Army, it will be among the most advanced in the world. ‘‘We are getting good feedback for our carbine. It is unique, as it is personalized for left handlers too,’’ adds Rajagopal.
Although the rifle is now upgraded, there were two other problems with it. The Army had complained that there was an oil leakage problem and the cartridge would crack in extreme temperature conditions. However, defense authorities say that both the problems have now been fixed. http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=147534 :coffee

[driftder]

i would consider bell407 equipped with the hellfire a killer combo best suited for indian army.:coffee

In what ways is it considered a killer combo? It's more like a modernised Huey - ie light transport. If fitting it with Hellfires make it a killer, then what about fitting Hinds-F then?

[aaaditya]

In what ways is it considered a killer combo? It's more like a modernised Huey - ie light transport. If fitting it with Hellfires make it a killer, then what about fitting Hinds-F then?
well the bell407 is smaller,lighter,can fly higher and faster can carry troops if required,and most importantly it has the hellfire missile(without any doubt one of the best in the world)

[aaaditya]

here is some news about the indo-us army excercises in mizoram.

Third Indo-US joint army exercise in Mizoram soon


The third joint exercise of the Indian Army and the United States Army will take place from September 12 to September 27, at the Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School (CIJW) in Mizoram.

The exercise will be aimed at increasing the inter operability between the armed forces of the two countries, as also assisting in fostering a greater bond between India and the United States.

According to the Indian Army, the US forces are keen to learn from the Indian Army’s experience in counter insurgency operations in Jammu and Kashmir and the Northeastern states over the last half a century.

The US team will be arriving in Kolkata on September 10 and will be leaving for CIJW, via Silchar in Assam on September 12. The team will be returning to the city on September 29, and will leave for America the day after. An American delegation led by Lieutenant General John Brown, commander general of the US ARPAC, will also be visiting the CIJW on September 16 and 17.

Apart from the US, CIJW also trains officers and personnel of friendly nations, including Afghanistan, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Mauritius, Singapore, South Africa, Myanmar, Iraq, Ghana, Botswana and Kazakhstan.

:coffee

[WebMaster]

Aaaditya, here is the ACTUAL link to the above story:

http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=147717

Please try to post the actual link from where the news was copied. I think, I have mentioned this too many times now, next time I won't mention it.

[aaaditya]

seems indian army is getting hyperactive:

Joint exercises planned with leading foreign armies


Special Correspondent

To act as diplomatic tool for pursuing national security strategies



Major plans with Russian, French, U.S. armies
Low-level exercises, joint training planned with Singapore, Mongolia and Uzbekistan
<LI>Foreign defence attaches to inspect a desert warfare exercise in November



NEW DELHI: The Army has planned a busy schedule of joint exercises with some of the leading armies of the world as part of its newly formulated strategy of using such interaction as a diplomatic tool for pursuing national security strategies.

Thus, for the time, Indian troops will rub shoulders with Russian special forces in the deserts of Rajasthan, conduct mock assaults from the sea with French soldiers and train with Americans here and abroad. In addition, low-level exercises and joint training are planned with soldiers from Singapore, Mongolia and Uzbekistan.

`Desert Strike'



The Army will also showcase its firepower to foreign defence attaches, including for the first time a representative from China, at an exercise by a mechanised division codenamed "Desert Strike" in November. "We will let other countries know how the Indian Army operates in the deserts," said an informed source.

The joint exercises have as their basis certain tenets outlined by the Chief of Army Staff J. J. Singh to broaden the scope of defence cooperation with other countries. Army-to-army cooperation, he has instructed, must be used as a tool to increase national security. The aim would be to engage world powers and friendly nations in the immediate neighbourhood.

Cooperation cell



A defence cooperation cell in the Army headquarters has been made the nodal agency for formulating defence cooperation policy in coordination with the Defence Ministry and the Foreign Office.

In addition, there is added emphasis on joint exercises with the U.S. as the Army is regularly interacting with U.S. Special Forces, National Guards and regular troops. Although the former Army chief, S. Padmanabhan, has called the current series of India-U.S. military exercises as "low level" and "purposeless," the Army is preparing for a wide range of cooperation in keeping with the recently signed 10-year India-U.S. defence framework agreement. These include high-level interaction, company-level exercises and attending courses. "We are the only Army to have been involved in the entire gamut of operations. Other countries want to learn minor tactics we have imbibed from our experience while we get acquainted with technically advanced equipment," said an informed source. "
http://www.hindu.com/2005/09/19/stories/2005091912270100.htm

indian army is also to become active in central asia. :cool:

[manupubby]

The MBRLs are getting the much needed range enhancement which may make them competitive for the global market. Check out :
ARDE adding lethal touch to Pinaka rockets

Multi-barrel rocket launches to be upgraded to 120-km range, 250-kg payload
Express News Service
Pune, September 14: A sleek 7.2 meter long rocket flying over 120 km with a warhead containing 250 kg of explosives can cause a lot of damage deep into enemy territory. Followed by 11 others in a span of just 44 seconds, it converts a 3.9 sq km enemy area into shredded cottage cheese.

While the Army already has the indigenous Pinaka Multi-Barrel Rocket Launchers (MBRLs) which can fire a salvo of 12 unguided rockets with a 100 kg payload to a maximum distance of 40 km, the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) has now started work on enhancing its range to 120 km and increasing the payload to 250 kg.

The design plan for the upgraded Pinaka rocket has already been prepared and a team of senior DRDO scientists have started work, says A S Rajagopal, Director, ARDE. The upgraded rockets, which may be ready only by 2012, will compete with the Russian SMERCH, Chinese WS-1 B and Israeli EXTRA multi barrel rocket systems.

The new rocket will have a maximum speed of 4.7 mach and will rise to an altitude of 40 km before hitting its target at a devastating 1.8 mach. To enhance its range, a unique dual thrust system will be used in which the initial thrust at time of launch will be reduced substantially during flight time.

There is also a move to put a guidance system on the rockets. ‘‘We are moving to a time where most rockets will get guided some way or the other. But the only constraint is the prohibitive cost of the control mechanism,’’ said KVSS Prasad Rao, Chief Controller (R&D), DRDO headquarters.

But cost is something on ARDE’s mind too. The indigenous Pinnaka MRBLs will cost Rs 10 lakh per rocket against the imports which range from Rs 70-80 lakh per rocket.

However, with such long-range striking capability, the armed forces will also need support systems like UAV’s and communication equipment which can provide real-time target information. The DRDO also has plans to integrate these systems with the enhanced Pinaka MBRLs.

DRDO is also looking for support from private companies and academic research organisations to develop the product. ‘‘There is a plan for a mega project where armament labs will synergise with private companies and academicians,’’ says Dr Harihar Singh, Director of Armaments, DRDO.

[manupubby]

The MBRLs are getting the much needed range enhancement which may make them competitive for the global market. Check out :
ARDE adding lethal touch to Pinaka rockets

Multi-barrel rocket launches to be upgraded to 120-km range, 250-kg payload
Express News Service
Pune, September 14: A sleek 7.2 meter long rocket flying over 120 km with a warhead containing 250 kg of explosives can cause a lot of damage deep into enemy territory. Followed by 11 others in a span of just 44 seconds, it converts a 3.9 sq km enemy area into shredded cottage cheese.

While the Army already has the indigenous Pinaka Multi-Barrel Rocket Launchers (MBRLs) which can fire a salvo of 12 unguided rockets with a 100 kg payload to a maximum distance of 40 km, the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) has now started work on enhancing its range to 120 km and increasing the payload to 250 kg.

The design plan for the upgraded Pinaka rocket has already been prepared and a team of senior DRDO scientists have started work, says A S Rajagopal, Director, ARDE. The upgraded rockets, which may be ready only by 2012, will compete with the Russian SMERCH, Chinese WS-1 B and Israeli EXTRA multi barrel rocket systems.

The new rocket will have a maximum speed of 4.7 mach and will rise to an altitude of 40 km before hitting its target at a devastating 1.8 mach. To enhance its range, a unique dual thrust system will be used in which the initial thrust at time of launch will be reduced substantially during flight time.

There is also a move to put a guidance system on the rockets. ‘‘We are moving to a time where most rockets will get guided some way or the other. But the only constraint is the prohibitive cost of the control mechanism,’’ said KVSS Prasad Rao, Chief Controller (R&D), DRDO headquarters.

But cost is something on ARDE’s mind too. The indigenous Pinnaka MRBLs will cost Rs 10 lakh per rocket against the imports which range from Rs 70-80 lakh per rocket.

However, with such long-range striking capability, the armed forces will also need support systems like UAV’s and communication equipment which can provide real-time target information. The DRDO also has plans to integrate these systems with the enhanced Pinaka MBRLs.

DRDO is also looking for support from private companies and academic research organisations to develop the product. ‘‘There is a plan for a mega project where armament labs will synergise with private companies and academicians,’’ says Dr Harihar Singh, Director of Armaments, DRDO.

http://cities.expressindia.com/archivefullstory.php?newsid=148677&creation_date=2005-09-15

[manupubby]

Integrated Soldier System’ a step ahead



Pune, September 14: THE Army has moved one step closer to getting a futuristic ‘Integrated Soldier System’ for its infantry as the project proposal sent by Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) has been reviewed by the Army headquarters and a high-level committee headed by a senior infantry officer will be visiting the establishment later this month to give its inputs.

The delegation, led by a Director General (DG) level officer, has scanned the project report (sent three months ago by ARDE) for ‘loopholes’ and will present suggestions and requirements for the soldier system to make the project ‘concrete’, says ARDE director A S Rajagopal.

Once the project is cleared by the Army, ARDE scientists will start developing the various components needed for the soldier system and the kit will be ready for use within three years.

‘‘All the technology needed is already available with India in different institutions. It just has to be integrated as a system and here the ARDE will play a coordinating role,’’ explains Rao.

The various components needed like the helmet-mounted heads-up display (HUD) and the carbine (fitted with a grenade launcher) are already available with India. CSIO, Chandigarh has developed the HUD for fighter planes while the ARDE developed INSAS carbine will soon be undergoing user trails. The software needed for adding GPS system and communication gear is also available within the country.

As Rao says, only an effort to ‘integrate’ the knowledge is required.

The System
The Integrated Soldier System is a project developed by the ARDE wherein each infantry soldier is equipped to function as an individual self-contained system. The soldier is equipped with a carbine fitted with a grenade launcher, fully protective clothing (flak jackets and light armour) and a helmet mounted display with GPS integration. The idea is to enable the soldier to act independently by receiving direct instructions and feedback from a central command unit.

http://cities.expressindia.com/archivefullstory.php?newsid=148687&creation_date=2005-09-15

[aaaditya]

Integrated Soldier System’ a step ahead



Pune, September 14: THE Army has moved one step closer to getting a futuristic ‘Integrated Soldier System’ for its infantry as the project proposal sent by Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) has been reviewed by the Army headquarters and a high-level committee headed by a senior infantry officer will be visiting the establishment later this month to give its inputs.

The delegation, led by a Director General (DG) level officer, has scanned the project report (sent three months ago by ARDE) for ‘loopholes’ and will present suggestions and requirements for the soldier system to make the project ‘concrete’, says ARDE director A S Rajagopal.

Once the project is cleared by the Army, ARDE scientists will start developing the various components needed for the soldier system and the kit will be ready for use within three years.

‘‘All the technology needed is already available with India in different institutions. It just has to be integrated as a system and here the ARDE will play a coordinating role,’’ explains Rao.

The various components needed like the helmet-mounted heads-up display (HUD) and the carbine (fitted with a grenade launcher) are already available with India. CSIO, Chandigarh has developed the HUD for fighter planes while the ARDE developed INSAS carbine will soon be undergoing user trails. The software needed for adding GPS system and communication gear is also available within the country.

As Rao says, only an effort to ‘integrate’ the knowledge is required.

The System
The Integrated Soldier System is a project developed by the ARDE wherein each infantry soldier is equipped to function as an individual self-contained system. The soldier is equipped with a carbine fitted with a grenade launcher, fully protective clothing (flak jackets and light armour) and a helmet mounted display with GPS integration. The idea is to enable the soldier to act independently by receiving direct instructions and feedback from a central command unit.

http://cities.expressindia.com/archivefullstory.php?newsid=148687&creation_date=2005-09-15
i believe it is known as f-insas or future indian soldier as a system ,and usa is collaborating in this project.:D
also i believe that it is not the hud(head up display) which is quite heavy but a hmd(helmet mounted display)which the soldiers would be using ,these helmet mounted displays may be of either israeli or us origin.

[ashblackhawk]

i believe it is known as f-insas or future indian soldier as a system ,and usa is collaborating in this project.:D
also i believe that it is not the hud(head up display) which is quite heavy but a hmd(helmet mounted display)which the soldiers would be using ,these helmet mounted displays may be of either israeli or us origin.
I dont believe there is any collaboration of Indian army with US in these projects. The only US made thing can be microprocessor chips in handheld devices which we dont have the capability to fabricate apart from that nothing US, I have seen these products made by DRDO 2 years back. No israeli collaboration either in these projects as far as i know atleast 3 years back.
Cheers,

[vedang]

I Have Heard That Israelis Have Integrated A Missile Named "lahat" As One Of The Weapons Of Arjun Any Idea??

[vedang]

Heard That Indian Army Is Providing Israelis With Financial Assistance To Develop Something Called "lora" (stands For Long Range ...?) Missiles Which Are To Be Used In A Tactical Role In A War With Range Around 300km. Why Not Use Brahmos??

Rumour Also There That Army Doesnt Prefer Inducting Brahmos.... Any Reasons

[aaaditya]

Heard That Indian Army Is Providing Israelis With Financial Assistance To Develop Something Called "lora" (stands For Long Range ...?) Missiles Which Are To Be Used In A Tactical Role In A War With Range Around 300km. Why Not Use Brahmos??

Rumour Also There That Army Doesnt Prefer Inducting Brahmos.... Any Reasons
yes both the news are true the defenceupdate forum has an image of the arjun firing the lahat,the lahat has a range of 6-8kms tank fired and upto 12 kms when fired from alh dhruv ,the lahat stands for laser homing anti tank and it is a laser guided missile ,the laser guidance can be provided by a designator mounted on an armoured vehicle or a helicopter or by a soldier.this missile hade to be coated with a thin layer of rubber which burns off before the missile leaves the gun barrel so that it can be fired from the arjun's 120mm rifled gun.(www.acig.org,www.defence-update.com),the (http://www.acig.org,www.defence-update.com),the) report about lora is also true the lora was selected ion favour of the rissian iskandar-e missile,the lora is believed to be a hybrid of a cruise and ballistic missiles (dont know what that means).lora stands for long range artillery.:D

[vedang]

thanks for the previous reply.:) by the way any idea about the T-72 upgrade? also want to know when the weapon armed dhruvs will be inducted. have they passed user trials?
any idea when will army start inducting the indegenously developed weapon locating radars.also any idea about the user trials of the "nag" missile
hope u wont mind answering so many doubts

[aaaditya]

thanks for the previous reply.:) by the way any idea about the T-72 upgrade? also want to know when the weapon armed dhruvs will be inducted. have they passed user trials?
any idea when will army start inducting the indegenously developed weapon locating radars.also any idea about the user trials of the "nag" missile
hope u wont mind answering so many doubts
the user trials of nag have been successfully completed and the missile has been cleared for production (though the production has,nt started yet at the bdl).
weapons integration of alh has been completed(though i have no idea when it will be incorporated on the indian army fleet).
about 600 t-72's are to upgraded under the project rhino with the polish drawa fire control system(there is an excellent article on this at www.bharat-rakshak.com),the (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com),the) indegenously developed battle field surveillance radar has been inducted,but the wlr is still in development(www.bel-india.com (http://www.bel-india.com)) :D

[vedang]

heard that arjunmk2 is going to be among the best in the world. any idea when it is coming out???by the way thanks for the link,found everything in it

[Tornedo]

heard that arjunmk2 is going to be among the best in the world. any idea when it is coming out???by the way thanks for the link,found everything in it

Hi Arjun look like Western tank but i had heard it have so many problems and IA isnot happy with it and Indian government donot allow to produce it in mass. wat is this new one Arjun Mk2 never heard before?When it is going to be in user trails?

[Berserk Fury]

Looks very nice though the cost may be a problem.
And yes, I agree that radar system is quite ingenious.

[Deeps_Terminato]

IS Arjun's Second Prototype rolling out ? Arjun 1 was a monster and failed DRDO project.Plz GIve me link to ur article.

[ThunderBolt]

Can someone give me a link to a site whice has all the specifications to Arjun tank.

[BLACKDRONZER]

indian army is to rapidly upgrade it army air wing with new helicopters.

Army in an overdrive, to buy 197 choppers

Posted online: Sunday, September 04, 2005 at 1133 hours IST
Updated: Sunday, September 04, 2005 at 1139 hours IST

New Delhi, September 4: In its major drive underway to modernise all arms--Infantry, Armour, Artillery and Mechanised units--army has finalised plans to expand its aviation wing with acquisition of 197 light helicopters as also to equip itself with light helicopter gunships for use in high-altitude areas.
Top officials said army was awaiting the nod from the government for rapid expansion of its air fleet, after making a strong case for having its own medium lift transport helicopters, assault choppers, anti-tank combat helicopters and for the first time, to have limited number of light fixed wing aircraft.


Army officials have lamented lack of close air support in counter-isurgency operations, high-altitude areas and during Kargil operations to press for expansion of its air arm. The contract for 197 light helicopters to replace its ageing fleet of Cheetahs and Chetaks is almost at the final stages with two major bidders, the Eurocopter and American Bell Textron completing their second and final round of summer trials in Jammu and Kashmir and Rajasthan.
The Army Aviation Corp proposes to buy 55 helicopters outright and the remaining 142-odd be built under licence at Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics in a deal estimated to be worth more 500 million US dollars.
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=53930#compstory

well here are the contenders:
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as555_fennec/
couldnt find info on bell407
i beleive all of them are capable of being used for anti tank roles.:coffee


well here is the info on bell407 it can carry hellfire missile while the fennec can carry the tow misssiles.

Website: http://www.bellhelicopter.com (http://www.bellhelicopter.com/)
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/military/ARH/bellarh-72.pdf
hey guy's :smash ,
What about 'LOH' that hal is developing & what about 'ALH'

[aaaditya]

hey guy's :smash ,
What about 'LOH' that hal is developing & what about 'ALH'
loh plan has been cancelled and will be replaced by these helo's (bell arh is supposed to be the favourite)they are intended to replace the chetaks and the cheetahs,currently indian army is acquiring 300 alh's,and is also planning to acquire 80 heavy attack helicopters(russian ka52 and the us apache longbow are in the race).
boeing recently stated that they would be oofering the longbow.

[aaaditya]

hey guys believe it or not ,india would be investing 1 billion dollars on the f-insas project. this news is supposed to have come in defence news.

The Indian Army plans to upgrade its infantry gear with money freed up by its June decision to continue a search for bidders for a $1 billion self-propelled artillery program.

Army officials sent their plan to the Defense Ministry in September, a senior Indian Army infantry planner said.


Army planners looked at foreign future infantry concepts, including the U.S. Land Warrior program, the U.K. Future Integrated Soldier Technology project, Israel’s Future Infantry Warrior and South Africa’s African Warrior.

The plan calls for a better 5.56-caliber assault rifle, helmet-mounted sight and observation gear, radio and data communications, load-carrying packs, and protection and sustainability gear.

The Army intends to float a global tender within three to four months for 50,000 rifles from defense firms in Germany, Israel, South Africa and the United States. Proposals must include technology transfer to allow the rifle design to be manufactured in India.

The rifle may include such electro-optical components as thermal sights, red-dot sights, holographic sights, still- and video-image cameras, laser rangefinder, digital compass and Global Positioning System (GPS) gear. Other equipment may provide digital maps and combat identification.

A fire-control computer will tie all of the systems together and allow the use of electronically timed, precision air-bursting ammunition. The rifle and its accessories will be mounted on a rugged polymer-based housing with an under-barrel grenade launcher.

The Army also will buy several thousand lightweight helmets with head-up displays for sensor data and other digitized information. New UHF radios will allow secure communication of voice, data, graphics and images with integrated GPS coordinates, so that the individual’s position is known at all times.

The new clothing will include ballistic protection and nuclear-biological-chemical protection, will minimize physical strain on the body, and be made of infrared-absorbing materials that can change colors to match the surroundings.
T
he new infantry gear must be designed to handle conditions in India, and the thrust should be on improvement in developing soldiers, said Mahindra Singh, a retired Indian Army major general.

though it is surprising that russia is not being considered.

[ThunderBolt]

What choices does India has for 5.56 assault rifles, what countries are willing to sell their weapons and what would india choose, personaly i think Insas is getting sort of old and so is AK's maybe except for the newer ones that are 5.56 and accurate and less bulky also water proff, they are called AKSU 74. What about some rifles from US, they might sell some M4's because soon they will probably be replaced by G36s.

[aaaditya]

What choices does India has for 5.56 assault rifles, what countries are willing to sell their weapons and what would india choose, personaly i think Insas is getting sort of old and so is AK's maybe except for the newer ones that are 5.56 and accurate and less bulky also water proff, they are called AKSU 74. What about some rifles from US, they might sell some M4's because soon they will probably be replaced by G36s.

india already has acquired 3000 tavors from israel for the special forces,so iam sure that they would be having operational experience on them and i would consider them as favourites,also the ofb has developed an upgraded version of insas(i dont know if it is excalibur or another version)but it is claimed to be fully ambidextrous.the total value of the f-insas project is worth 1 billion dollars so iam sure quite a few countries would be interested in providing their futuristic soldier concepts for the indian army.

[BLACKDRONZER]

india already has acquired 3000 tavors from israel for the special forces,so iam sure that they would be having operational experience on them and i would consider them as favourites,also the ofb has developed an upgraded version of insas(i dont know if it is excalibur or another version)but it is claimed to be fully ambidextrous.the total value of the f-insas project is worth 1 billion dollars so iam sure quite a few countries would be interested in providing their futuristic soldier concepts for the indian army.
hai,:)
aaditya thanks for your information.But,if what you have said is wright then what about project:rolleyes: 'LCH'.And one more thing, is india devoloping 3 aircrftcariers:confused: (www.globalsecurity.org). Also please give me some info about
latest devolopment in'MCA'project.

[kingkobra]

india already has acquired 3000 tavors from israel for the special forces,so iam sure that they would be having operational experience on them and i would consider them as favourites,also the ofb has developed an upgraded version of insas(i dont know if it is excalibur or another version)but it is claimed to be fully ambidextrous.the total value of the f-insas project is worth 1 billion dollars so iam sure quite a few countries would be interested in providing their futuristic soldier concepts for the indian army.

wat is F-Insas never heard before?wat other refile india is making or workin on any projects? i dont know why india dont produce helmets they still use old style helmets have look at any other asian country (china,koria,japan)and their soilder protection suite and their wepons they look great.

[Cootamundra]

wat is F-Insas never heard before?wat other refile india is making or workin on any projects? i dont know why india dont produce helmets they still use old style helmets have look at any other asian country (china,koria,japan)and their soilder protection suite and their wepons they look great.

Mate how's your written English going!? Admittedly better than my Hindi but come on...

[aaaditya]

wat is F-Insas never heard before?wat other refile india is making or workin on any projects? i dont know why india dont produce helmets they still use old style helmets have look at any other asian country (china,koria,japan)and their soilder protection suite and their wepons they look great.

1)f-insas stands for future indian soldier as a system.
it is an integrated soldier concept similiat to the us land warrior,german,israeli or south frican concepts.
2)besides the indigenous insas assault rifle(indian small arms as a system),india is also developing an advanced version of the insas known as the excalibur and a new ambidextrous assault rifle(dont know if it is variant of the insas).india also manufactures the belgian fn-fal slr and the a7(indigenised version of the ak47)
3)indian army troops mostly use the newer variants of the patkas(indian bullet proof helmets),they also use indigenous bullet proof vests.

[aaaditya]

hai,:)
aaditya thanks for your information.But,if what you have said is wright then what about project:rolleyes: 'LCH'.And one more thing, is india devoloping 3 aircrftcariers:confused: (www.globalsecurity.org) (http://www.globalsecurity.org)). Also please give me some info about
latest devolopment in'MCA'project.
hi cant discuss mca on this thread as the forum moderators are already after my head.but all i can say is that it will be twin engined stealthy lca in the 18 ton class (design work reportedly completed)we can discuss it in the airforce thread.

[manupubby]

Army can now enter NBC zone safely

Posted online: Monday, November 14, 2005 at 0053 hours IST



PUNE, NOVEMBER 13: The Army is set to get its first armoured reconnaissance vehicle designed to enter nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) environment and bring back samples to gauge contamination.

The tracked NCB recce vehicle, based on the amphibious BMP II armoured personnel carrier, will be equipped to enter any hostile terrain to bring samples from the contaminated area to a mobile laboratory for analysis.



The indigenous vehicle, developed by Ahmednagar-based Vehicle Research and Development Establishment (VRDE) in collaboration with Pune-based Research and Development Establishment (Engineers) and three other Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) labs, will be a self-contained vehicle fitted with a robotic arm to scoop out soil and other samples and record air samples.

It will function in a ‘hood down’ sealed mode to ensure crew safety from nuclear radiation, chemical attacks and biological agents. Once the vehicle returns from the contaminated area, the samples will be transferred to a mobile laboratory (already developed by DRDO) to analyse the ‘threat level’.


http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=81942


Not too bad....comes close on the heels of the armoured engineer recce vehicle based on the BMP II which was handed over to the army earlier this month.

[aaaditya]

does it have any other role besides nuclear sample collection,i cant understand what difference it would make to the combat situation on the ground unless this vehicle has some kind of firepower.

[manupubby]

does it have any other role besides nuclear sample collection,i cant understand what difference it would make to the combat situation on the ground unless this vehicle has some kind of firepower.

The vehicle will most probably be protected by the 7.62 mm PKT machine gun and the standard smoke screen devices. The whole idea of the vehicle is to go in and check out if the area is fit for tanks or infantry to move in. As its an all terrain vehcile, it will be able to check out-- say if the punjab border has been attacked by chemical agents-- The extend of the attack and area of the NBC threat can be collected.

[aaaditya]

The vehicle will most probably be protected by the 7.62 mm PKT machine gun and the standard smoke screen devices. The whole idea of the vehicle is to go in and check out if the area is fit for tanks or infantry to move in. As its an all terrain vehcile, it will be able to check out-- say if the punjab border has been attacked by chemical agents-- The extend of the attack and area of the NBC threat can be collected.
does this vehicle just collect samples or is it a full fledged field laboratory and containment system?
the machine gun seems to be highly inadequate.

[manupubby]

does this vehicle just collect samples or is it a full fledged field laboratory and containment system?
the machine gun seems to be highly inadequate.


The idea is not to go and fight in an NBC environment. We have the NBC protected T 90's and BMP II ICVs for that. The whole purpose is to determine the feasibility of sending in ground troops. Its like a reccee vehicle to determine how hostile the area is....There is no field lab in it yet but the samlples can be brought to the nearest wheeled lab (which drdo also has). The machine gun is only for basic self defence.

[P.A.F]

http://www.dawn.com/2005/11/19/top14.htm

India holds war-games near border

POKHRAN (India), Nov 18: India’s military on Friday staged a grand finale to major military manoeuvres, showcasing newly-acquired T-90 battle tanks and warplanes close to the border with Pakistan in the Thar desert The Indian military said New Delhi gave advance notice of the 14-day exercises codenamed “Operation Desert Strike” to neighbouring Pakistan in line with a pact between the nuclear-armed neighbours, who are engaged in a slow-moving peace process to end their decades-old feud over Kashmir.

“Such exercises show our capability and ability,” said Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee. He said, however, the war games were not designed to intimidate India’s neighbours.

“India does not have any territorial designs...all our capabilities are just aimed at protecting our interests,” Mukherjee said as supersonic jets dived in mock attacks.

Officials said the exercise was the biggest since the 1987 Operation Brass Tacks in the desert state of Rajasthan which sent tensions skyrocketing between India and Pakistan.

Forty-two observers and diplomats from 30 countries including Bangladesh, Britain, China, France and the United States were at the war games in Pokhran.

“We welcome such observers,” the defence minister said.

The army chief General J.J. Singh said Beijing had invited New Delhi and Moscow to send observers to recent Chinese exercises. Ties between India and China, which fought a border war four decades ago, have warmed in recent years.

“Our men also went to China and so we invited them as we are just showing our capabilities and we hope there will be better cooperation in the future,” Singh, head of India’s 1.4-million strong army, told reporters in Pokhran.

The latest exercises were staged in the vicinity of India’s nuclear testing site, where New Delhi carried out nuclear tests in May 1998.

Friday’s finale came a day after the Indian Air Force wound up joint 12-day exercises with the US Air Force in Marxist-ruled West Bengal state.

The Indian Air Force, the world’s fourth largest, said it deployed its French-made Mirage-2000, Russian MiG-27s and MiG-21s and British-designed Jaguar warplanes along with attack helicopters and drones in the Thar exercise.—AFP

[aaaditya]

i find it surprising that china was invited ,considering the fact that india and china had fought a war,i consider it foolish to expose indian weapon systems and tactics to the chinese.

[aaaditya]

here is a news article giving some more info on the new armoured engineering and recovery vehicle:

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/11/14/stories/2005111401961300.htm

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is an interesting article about russia's interest in indian sathis:

Russia evinces interest in Indian Army's 'Sathi'
Bangalore | November 28, 2005 5:31:35 PM IST

Russia and Israel have evinced keen interest in 'Sathi', the indigenously developed electronic gadget which proved handy for Army personnel to receive and transmit voice and data messages with least chance of intercepting.

Bangalore-based Encore Software Chairman and CEO Vinav L Deshpande, presenting his company's profile at the 'IT innovation in India 2005,' organised by the National Association of Software and Service Companies (NASSCOM) here today, informed that the product, developed by his company with funding from the Indian Army, got wide attention from various countries.
'Sathi' with MP3 player and new dimension military technology, rechargeable through both solar and vehicles, had demonstrated Indian Army's strategic leadership to the world, he added.
Mr Deshpande said the Army had signed an agreement with Encore Systems to market the product outside the country and share the revenue. It was also agreed to keep apart some of the sale proceeds for further enhancing its quality and value.
Stating that its price was low when compared to a similar product in the United States, which was inferior in both hardware and software capability, he said the device sought to address the lack of precise information on location of soldiers and teams in the battlefield and any lack of operational and graphic picture to commanders directing the conduct of battle. It would provide accurate information about location during deployment of military missions within 20 metres and provide military commanders with operational picture every few seconds. Military commanders could thus respond to sudden developments by modifying operational plans real time, he added. The first leg of the event was held in Pune on November 21.


they even have mp3's.
i see brught future for this product.

[aaaditya]

seems india is now getting activeli involved in iraq:
india is to export mine protected vehicles to the us forces involved in iraq:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5922_1562907,0015002100000001.htm

Mine-protected vehicles to be exported to IraqHT Correspondent
Jabalpur, December 1, 2005

ORDNANCE FACTORY Board Director General & Chairman P K Mishra today disclosed that a consignment of mine-protected vehicles manufactured in the ordnance factories will be exported to Iraq. He said that the United States of America (USA) placed an order with India to secure mine-protected vehicles for Iraqi forces.
However, he didn’t disclose the number of variants to be exported to Iraq. Besides this, he said that the OFB would supply nearly 166 mine-protected vehicles to Indian Army. These variants will be manufactured in Vehicle Factory Jabalpur (VFJ) in co-operation with two other ordnance factories here - Grey Iron Foundry (GIF) and Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), he said.
Talking to reporters at Vehicle Factory Jabalpur Inspection Bungalow before opening the All India Ordnance Factories Athletic Meet here on Thursday, Mishra said the Indian ordnance factories have developed in-house the anti-material rifle, for which the Denel Company of South Africa had been approached earlier.

[manupubby]

The other Indian Land forces thread is closed down. So posted this here. The new unmanned ground vehcile being prepared for the army is almost ready now with two prototypes more or less on their feet



VRDE: Civilian applications on the cards may include bomb disposal, fire fighting, sewage treatment

Unmanned Ground Vehicle in two versions




Pune, December 16: THE secret is finally out. The Unmanned Ground Vehicle being developed by the Ahmednagar-based Vehicle Research and Development Establishment (VRDE) to cut down troop losses in counter insurgency operations will have two variants — a battlefield surveillance vehicle and a Nuclear Biological and Chemical (NBC) contamination reconnaissance version.

First reported in Newsline on November 27, the vehicles are being developed for future warfare that would be fought from control rooms instead of actual battlefields. Work has already begun on the two variants and a pilot control vehicle.

The surveillance vehicle will be equipped with all weather, day-night cameras and a battlefield radar to get an accurate picture of the area. The vehicle will also have thermal sights, a laser range finder and a 12-meter high telescopic mast for maximum range.

The NBC variant will be used to identify contamination in suspected sites and will have a scooping system. A robotic manipulator arm and a turn table will help the vehicle collect soil and liquid samples for biological analysis. The UGV will also have a picket driving system to mark out a ‘‘safe route’’.

Both the variants will be controlled by a Pilot System Unit (PSU) vehicle and can be manipulated from a range of 5 to 10 km. The vehicle will move at a maximum speed of 25 kmph and will run for a maximum 80 km. The vehicles, as well as the PSU, will be protected by 7.62 mm PKT machine guns which will also be remotely controlled. The guns will be equipped with a day-night camera and a laser range finder to have a maximum range of 1 km.

VRDE scientist S V Londhe, who gave a presentation on the vehicle at a seminar on ‘Auto Excellence’ organised by the Mahratta Chamber of Commerce, Industries and Agriculture (MCCIA), said that vehicles will be equipped with advanced navigation systems, collision avoidance systems and a efficient fire detection and suppression system. Londhe said that VRDE is looking forward to industry participation to develop key components like the thermal imagers, sensors and gun turrets.

VRDE is also looking at civilian applications of the vehicle. Future variants like fire fighting, application in agriculture, waste site survey, sewage treatment and bomb disposal are under consideration.

The history
VRDE has been working on an experimental UGV and a prototype was successfully mounted on a Maruti Esteem in 2002. The vehicle is equipped with six cameras and a 11 MBPS wireless control system. The vehicle has successfully completed an endurance running of 1,000 km.

The link
The UGV will be controlled by the pilot vehicle using these links
* Radio: A radio transmitter and receiver will be used to remotely operate the vehicle.
* Fibre optic: In case of frequency jamming during war conditions, a fibre optic link can be attached to the vehicle. The fibre optic line will be rolled off when the vehicle moves away from the PSU and will pass instructions.
* Cellular link: VRDE is also contemplating a 3 G cellular link to communicate with the UGV.


http://cities.expressindia.com/archivefullstory.php?newsid=161714&creation_date=2005-12-17

[aaaditya]

fantastic news,the image of that vehicle(prototype) was posted on the indiadefence website, i tried to post it here,but could not,can you please try to post that image.also i tried to post a relatively older article with the india defence link however it is not being displayed when iam submitting my post.
its 1000 kms endurance is realy great,i hope it would be equipped with a 40mm cannon mounted on the israeli remote controlled turrret,would look realy cool.

[manupubby]

hmmm...it will not have a 40 mm cannon but the 7.62 PKT machine gun as of now. In fact, the gun has already been designed and has three cameras and a laser range finder attached to it. It looks cool too. The gun turrent however seems to be having some problems. DRDO has asked private industries to come with some ideas for the same.

However, the picture in Indiadefence is of the wrong vehcile. That pic is of a simple ROV (remotely operated vehcile) which is esentially a robot. This new UGV is different and is a full fledged and jeep sized vehcile. Will post an article on the ROV as well which was developed by R and D E Pune.

[manupubby]

Here is the article about ROV, the remotely operated bomb disposal/minedetector/NBC survey robo.




A robot that can sniff out bombs

Express News Service

Pune, December 7: When the Construct India Expo opened up at the Sakhar Sankul grounds on Wednesday, the main attraction was a remote controlled bomb disposal robot developed by city-based Research and Development Establishment (Engineers).

Totally indigenous and displayed for public viewing for the first time, the robot has been developed by a team of 10 engineers over the past three years and promises to drastically cut down troop loss in urban warfare.


The remotely operated vehicle (ROV-II) — its controller unit works from 500 meters — is equipped with four cameras and an extendable arm that can be used to pick up suspicious objects or defuse bombs.

The ROV uses an inbuilt X-ray scanner to detect explosive devices in any suspicious object like a suitcase or a bag. An onboard water jet, which can fire a stream capable of piercing a suitcase cover or half an inch of plywood, is then used to defuse the bomb.

‘‘Suspicious objects can be scanned with the X-ray and the water jet can destroy the batteries which power bombs,’’ explained an engineer. The robot, which can work continuously for three hours, can also climb stairs and is therefore useful in multi-storied buildings.

The ROV is also designed for carrying out nuclear, biological and chemical reconnaissance and can even monitor the contamination levels using its sensors and detectors.

Right now, ROV I is undergoing stringent tests at the R&D Establishment in Dighi. Engineers are now awaiting Army trials. ‘‘The army will test the robot in different terrains and check if it can be operated at extreme temperatures before they induct it,’’said the engineer.


http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=160590

[aaaditya]

hmmm...it will not have a 40 mm cannon but the 7.62 PKT machine gun as of now. In fact, the gun has already been designed and has three cameras and a laser range finder attached to it. It looks cool too. The gun turrent however seems to be having some problems. DRDO has asked private industries to come with some ideas for the same.

However, the picture in Indiadefence is of the wrong vehcile. That pic is of a simple ROV (remotely operated vehcile) which is esentially a robot. This new UGV is different and is a full fledged and jeep sized vehcile. Will post an article on the ROV as well which was developed by R and D E Pune.

that is very very interesting ,by the way do you have an image of the vehicle that you are mentioning,i was thinking that the ugv would be a variant of the rov.

[manupubby]

I could not get a picture.. anyway the only visual there was a sketch diagram. But i had no luck ! The ROV and UGV will be seperate vehicles with totally with different roles.

[aaaditya]

well can you please post the link for the site,by the way which lab is developing it.

[manupubby]

There is no web site for it yet. This is all first hand info. They have not put it on any site yet. UGV is being developed by VRDE while ROV is being developed by RnD E .

[aaaditya]

well seems indians are really pleased with the performance of the tungushka gun cum missile systems and are acquiring more of them:

India, Russia sign $400 mn defence deal
[/URL]
Press Trust of India
(http://hindustantimes.com/on/img/0.gif)
Moscow, December 20, 2005

India has signed a $400 million contract for purchase of four batteries of Tunguska-M1 gun-missile air defence complexes from Russia, media reports in Moscow said on Tuesday. India already has more than 60 older versions of Tunguska and two batteries (12 units) of the new complexes capable of destroying enemy aircraft within a range of 10 km with its precision missiles and shells, Interfax news agency reported quoting unnamed defence industry sources.
Serially produced at Ulyanovsk Mechanical Plant in Volga region, Tunguska-M1 are all-weather air defence complexes to defend military units on the march and in battle array from the military aircraft and cruise missiles.
Self-propelled Tunguska gun-missile complex is the only air defence system with integrated gun and missile channels.
Its 360 degree radar can detect hostile aerial targets within the radius of 18 km flying at the altitude of 15,000 to 3,500 metres.
[URL="http://hindustantimes.com/on/img/0.gif"] (http://hindustantimes.com/on/img/0.gif)

well here is the link:

http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1578405,00050003.htm

i believe this deal is a part of the indo-russian agreement to purchase 10billion dollars worth of arms and ammunition from russia between 2000-2010.

[aaaditya]

finally the nsg are getting new headquarters,new weapons are next to follow,though iam not exactly sure wether the nsg will get their own helicopter wing or not:

here is the link: http://www.hindu.com/2005/12/26/stories/2005122616921700.htm

New NSG headquarters inaugurated

Staff Reporter
One of the most beautiful structures that we would be proud of: Shivraj Patil



PHOTO: SHANKER CHAKRAVARTY
http://www.hindu.com/2005/12/26/images/2005122616921701.jpg
HOMING IN: Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil trying his hand at shooting a pistol after inaugurating the new National Security Guard headquarters near the domestic wing of the Indira Gandhi International Airport in New Delhi on Sunday.

NEW DELHI: Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil inaugurated the new National Security Guard (NSG) headquarters building near the domestic wing of Indira Gandhi International Airport here on Sunday.
Admiring the NSG headquarters, Mr. Patil said the capital had in recent times added some magnificent architectural structures to its landscape, such as the Lotus Temple and the Akshardham Temple. "This building will also be one of the most beautiful structures that we would be legitimately proud of," he said.
Mr. Patil said the new building would help in enhancing the efficiency of officers, as working in such an ambience would be a pleasure. However, he said maintaining the structure would be tough. "Parliament and Rashtrapati Bhavan are the most beautiful buildings, but we face problems in their maintenance," he said. He advised the NSG officers to go for futuristic equipment to maintain its excellence.
Mr. Patil went on a tour of the building along with senior bureaucrats and visited the underground shooting gallery, where he tried his hands at latest weapons such as the briefcase gun, pistol and rifle.
The proposal for the new NSG headquarters was put up in 2000 and construction was started in 2003. The site was selected after considering the suitability of its location in view of operational requirements and its proximity to the airport and the NSG's Manesar garrison in Haryana.
Various facilities

The building houses facilities for target shooting, a gymnasium and a seminar room in the basement. There are lounge and mess facilities for officers and a canteen for other ranks. Unlike most government buildings, the NSG headquarters stands out for the emphasis given to landscaping, involving water bodies and a small putting patch. Art works, a controlled waterfall, a fountain, bronze sculptures of the Mahabharata characters Arjuna and Karna at the entrance door of the building, and a water body inside the plush office of NSG Director-General A.K. Mitra are its other highlights.

it looks more like some kind of a five star hotel ,but then such facilities are needed.

[amit21mech]

NSG should be abolished and rather state police forces should be modernised. I am not against the concept of creating NSG but what use they are of. Almost all the commandos are deployed for VIP security and to unfortune of India most of these VIPs are keeping them only for status symbol ( no real threat). And when NSG were required during Akshardham they spent 2 hours negotiating road traffic from Manesar to IGI Airport, New Delhi. And you may judge what these two hours can be for a commando operation.

[Focus]

"India already has more than 60 older versions of Tunguska and two batteries (12 units) of the new complexes capable of destroying enemy aircraft within a range of 10 km with its precision missiles and shells".

Other than Mig-21 planes and AK-47 rifles......no other Russian equiptment has been able to match or beat the US counterpart. There was so much said about the T-72s and it proved to be less than half as good as M-1A tanks. A lot of blame was put on the fact the Iraqis did not put up a good fight and surrendered meekly etc. etc. but when T-72 shells are hitting the M1s and bouncing off then there is a problem blaming the soldier training and coordination. India should be very selective when buying any arms from anybody. There is a lot said about Su-30MKI, but real 'guts and glory' will be seen only when pitted against F-15/16s flown by NATO pilots.

[aaaditya]

"India already has more than 60 older versions of Tunguska and two batteries (12 units) of the new complexes capable of destroying enemy aircraft within a range of 10 km with its precision missiles and shells".

Other than Mig-21 planes and AK-47 rifles......no other Russian equiptment has been able to match or beat the US counterpart. There was so much said about the T-72s and it proved to be less than half as good as M-1A tanks. A lot of blame was put on the fact the Iraqis did not put up a good fight and surrendered meekly etc. etc. but when T-72 shells are hitting the M1s and bouncing off then there is a problem blaming the soldier training and coordination. India should be very selective when buying any arms from anybody. There is a lot said about Su-30MKI, but real 'guts and glory' will be seen only when pitted against F-15/16s flown by NATO pilots.


well focus one of the reason why the t72's failed during the gulf war was that they were dug into the ground as fixed fortified posistion and here were sitiing ducks for the us battle tanks which were roaming around freely.

indian army has been operating the t series of tanks and our neighbours have been operating the derivatives of the t series of tanks ,and they are quite happy about them.

indian army is so happy about its t series of tanks(t72) that they went for the t-90's and are trying to compare the arjun to the t90 standards(arjun is a heavy tank similiar to the abrahms),americans use heavy tanks ,these type of tanks are considered to be unsuitable in the subcontinent since they require lot of infrastructure and lack mobility(the chief argument about arjun).

as regarding the tungushka gun cum missile system,there is no other choice regarding the matter since it is a very unique system ,the tungushka and pantsyr-s1(both developed by russia,pantsyr is used by the germans too) rae the only gun cum misssile self propelled platform currently available in the market,they give a tremendous advantage to any army since they enable the air defence corps to keep pace with the armoured corps.

the biggest reason why the russian systems are popular in the indian subcontinent and china is that they are cheap,rugged and easy to maintain and handle as opposed to the western systems.

[aaaditya]

well seems india has resumed the supply of defence technology to srilanka,i hope the proposed indo-srilankan defence agreement would be signed soon.

here is the link:

http://www.hindu.com/2005/12/28/stories/2005122804511300.htm

these indra2 radars are highly capable radars and the name stands for indian (in)doppler(d) radar(ra)

[d_berwal]

India's Army Aviation Corps (AAC) proposes to buy 60 helicopters outright with the remaining 137 being built under license by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in a deal worth between $500-$600 million. AAC wants the new helicopters to ferry loads of up to 75 kg to troops based at heights of 23,000 feet in Kashmir and on the Siachen Glacier. Operation at these altitudes has traditionally been very challenging for helicopters, owing to reduced rotor lift in the thinning air.

Military sources said Russia's Kamov 226 along with Bell and Eurocopter, had responded to the AAC's Request For Proposal in late 2003, but was eliminated early during the paper evaluation as it had been unable to obtain flight certification. But AAC sources said the Ka 226 had subsequently been granted certification and requested participation in the upcoming evaluation, but no decision had yet been taken on the matter. The Ka 226 is reportedly significantly cheaper than its rivals, but has few customer at this point and India is keen on moving away from Russian equipment and diversifying its equipment profile.

Main contenders

Ka-226
Bel - 407
AS - 550

Links
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/may102005/national14471200559.asp
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/commercial/maUtility407.cfm
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/as550_fennec/
http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/ka226/
http://www.hindu.com/2005/02/14/stories/2005021402980500.htm

[aaaditya]

India's Army Aviation Corps (AAC) proposes to buy 60 helicopters outright with the remaining 137 being built under license by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in a deal worth between $500-$600 million. AAC wants the new helicopters to ferry loads of up to 75 kg to troops based at heights of 23,000 feet in Kashmir and on the Siachen Glacier. Operation at these altitudes has traditionally been very challenging for helicopters, owing to reduced rotor lift in the thinning air.

Military sources said Russia's Kamov 226 along with Bell and Eurocopter, had responded to the AAC's Request For Proposal in late 2003, but was eliminated early during the paper evaluation as it had been unable to obtain flight certification. But AAC sources said the Ka 226 had subsequently been granted certification and requested participation in the upcoming evaluation, but no decision had yet been taken on the matter. The Ka 226 is reportedly significantly cheaper than its rivals, but has few customer at this point and India is keen on moving away from Russian equipment and diversifying its equipment profile.

Main contenders

Ka-226
Bel - 407
AS - 550

Links
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/may102005/national14471200559.asp
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/commercial/maUtility407.cfm
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/as550_fennec/
http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/ka226/
http://www.hindu.com/2005/02/14/stories/2005021402980500.htm

ka-226 was rejected early in the competition .

bell407,as550 and agusta a109power wre in the running.

latest news is that the agusta a109 power and the bell407 are fighting it out.

[Focus]

"one of the reason why the t72's failed during the gulf war was that they were dug into the ground as fixed fortified posistion and here were sitiing ducks for the us battle tanks which were roaming around freely."

The truth is a) T-72s lacked precious seconds once they had US tanks in sight and more importantly their range was short, the shells even if fired first bounced off the grounds. b) Some units were well dug in but chose to run away from the tanks rather than fight, many of the hits were on the tanks already crippled by air strikes. Some republican guards stood ground and fought well but lost out due to overwhelming air advantage and ofcourse superior tactics and gadetery employed by the US tanks.

India's performance in Kargil was nothing above average. It is said that 90% of the bombs from aircrafts were off the targets and Mirage-2000 precision ammunition had to be brought in to take out strongholds. Indian soldiers also lacked quality weapons and no above par performance was seen either in infantary or artellery units. It took artellery, like forever, to prove advantage over the the Pakistani counterparts, and by that time, India was on verge of placing new emergency orders to south Africa for replenishment.

India might not have much choice vis-a-vis turning away from cheap and what so called rugged Russian equiptment, but they should not follow Russian/Soviet war fighting tactics. Time and again they have proven outdated as seen by the Russian performance in Chechenya-II war where 'hand picked' units with best equiptment performed with rag tag results and could at best win only a stalemate.

[aaaditya]

"one of the reason why the t72's failed during the gulf war was that they were dug into the ground as fixed fortified posistion and here were sitiing ducks for the us battle tanks which were roaming around freely."

The truth is a) T-72s lacked precious seconds once they had US tanks in sight and more importantly their range was short, the shells even if fired first bounced off the grounds. b) Some units were well dug in but chose to run away from the tanks rather than fight, many of the hits were on the tanks already crippled by air strikes. Some republican guards stood ground and fought well but lost out due to overwhelming air advantage and ofcourse superior tactics and gadetery employed by the US tanks.

India's performance in Kargil was nothing above average. It is said that 90% of the bombs from aircrafts were off the targets and Mirage-2000 precision ammunition had to be brought in to take out strongholds. Indian soldiers also lacked quality weapons and no above par performance was seen either in infantary or artellery units. It took artellery, like forever, to prove advantage over the the Pakistani counterparts, and by that time, India was on verge of placing new emergency orders to south Africa for replenishment.

India might not have much choice vis-a-vis turning away from cheap and what so called rugged Russian equiptment, but they should not follow Russian/Soviet war fighting tactics. Time and again they have proven outdated as seen by the Russian performance in Chechenya-II war where 'hand picked' units with best equiptment performed with rag tag results and could at best win only a stalemate.

one of the reasons why the bombs were off target is because that they are conventional dumb bombs without any form of guidance ,dropped from considerable altitude(to keep the aircraft out of reach of the stinger missiles fired by the millitants),the targets were nothing but stone blocks arranged to form a bunker and then add to it the rarefied atmosphere,snow storms and fog which made the acquisition of the targets difficult,that is the reason why india had to use israeli laser guided bombs.

the only russian weapons that india used besides the fighters were the bm21 grad rocket launchers which performed very well,you must remember that most of the russian aircrafts used during the kargil war were the very old mig21's ,mig23's and mig27's,of this the mig21's and the mig23's were slated for retirement,considering this they performed very well.

also during the kargil war most of the battles were fought by soldiers at 15000+feet altitude hence tanks could not be used there,but the russian designed 130mm artillery gun and the mortars also proved to be very usefull.

the fact is india has no complaints regarding the russian technology except for the difficulty in getting the spares which has been rectified now.

[Focus]

"one of the reasons why the bombs were off target is because that they are conventional dumb bombs without any form of guidance ,dropped from considerable altitude(to keep the aircraft out of reach of the stinger missiles fired by the millitants),the targets were nothing but stone blocks arranged to form a bunker and then add to it the rarefied atmosphere,snow storms and fog which made the acquisition of the targets difficult,that is the reason why india had to use israeli laser guided bombs."

Wrong and expensive bombing and repulsion strategy, ill preparation at nearly all levels......all these ended up costing $2B+ for Kargil (my figure might even be grossly wrong and leaning on the lower side). I wonder what kind of defense forces India would be fielding in the event it does not have to face a very hostile and offensively active neighbour. Soviet/Russian central command type mindset was written all over the Indian response. Indians were fighting Siachen glacier war for more than 15 years before Kargil...............guess that did not help in learning about the high altitude warfare.

4th Largest force in the world, still does not have any respectable inter-services coordination......it is not expensive if you put your mind and experience to it.

[dronzer]

"one of the reasons why the bombs were off target is because that they are conventional dumb bombs without any form of guidance ,dropped from considerable altitude(to keep the aircraft out of reach of the stinger missiles fired by the millitants),the targets were nothing but stone blocks arranged to form a bunker and then add to it the rarefied atmosphere,snow storms and fog which made the acquisition of the targets difficult,that is the reason why india had to use israeli laser guided bombs."

Wrong and expensive bombing and repulsion strategy, ill preparation at nearly all levels......all these ended up costing $2B+ for Kargil (my figure might even be grossly wrong and leaning on the lower side). I wonder what kind of defense forces India would be fielding in the event it does not have to face a very hostile and offensively active neighbour. Soviet/Russian central command type mindset was written all over the Indian response. Indians were fighting Siachen glacier war for more than 15 years before Kargil...............guess that did not help in learning about the high altitude warfare.

4th Largest force in the world, still does not have any respectable inter-services coordination......it is not expensive if you put your mind and experience to it.
you have a point but dont forget each army has their own planings ,in our case i think they arre doing their best .about t72 is a good trank, with weatern electronics it can be leathel.in iraq they dont have any support from anyone and these t72 where not even upgraded to the current status.

[harrapa]

I think Focus puts up a really good point. does any one know what Indian armed forces tactical doctrines most closely pattern? The response to Kargil was certainly inadequate, but one must also keep in mind that was more than 5 years ago, and led to the impetus of change and modernization that has been occuring for the past few years.

with regards to russian equipment, I'm sure some things are worse than Western counterparts, but some things are better, namely price. So i think India is really going after what it can afford rather than getting the best on the market, since given the military budget, price has to be a major consideration.

I agree the T-72s seem to be getting a little long in the tooth, even with their much publicized upgrade program. In my opinion, india really should move away from this platform in favor of (what appears to be) the much better T-90. Arjun, i feel is a failure as an operational tank and should only be used as a tech demonstrator for a future attempt (although that is another story for a different thread).

One last question, does air defence come under the perview of the army, airforce, or is it shared by both depending on the defensive platform?

[Focus]

Indian armed forces tactical doctrine comes from New Delhi politicians. The defense minister of India is usually a person who probably has never even loaded a gun in his life. Professionalism is lacking in the armed forces from soldier to the general staff. This however does not mean that you 'hand pick' few generals and send them to Fort Knox in US for a 6 week refresher seminar....................all BS!

[driftder]

Indian armed forces tactical doctrine comes from New Delhi politicians. The defense minister of India is usually a person who probably has never even loaded a gun in his life. Professionalism is lacking in the armed forces from soldier to the general staff. This however does not mean that you 'hand pick' few generals and send them to Fort Knox in US for a 6 week refresher seminar....................all BS!

ermm have you ever trained with their Rajput, Sikhi and Ghurka regiments? or their mountain light infantry? the equipment might be a bit dated but they keep their stuff clean. as for their armour, while its mostly Russian, their armour tactics and formation are still more Brit/German.

don't know about their Defence Minister but from what I hear about their infantry, the spirit is there though the equipment might not.

[dabrownguy]

T-90/Arjun hibrid. You heard it here first folks.
There have been talk about it. Indian talk isn't just talk most of the time. It happens. I still remember the time some one ruined the Lahat suprise for us and the Crystal Maze and the Derby and the VLS Barhmos on Rajput.

[dronzer]

I agree the T-72s seem to be getting a little long in the tooth, even with their much publicized upgrade program. In my opinion, india really should move away from this platform in favor of (what appears to be) the much better T-90. Arjun, i feel is a failure as an operational tank and should only be used as a tech demonstrator for a future attempt (although that is another story for a different thread).



focus what you have said is right & indian army knows what to do.

And to you harapa about arjun ,t-72,t-90 please refer the topic "Project Rhino T-72 Upgrade Program" in this www.bharat-rakshak.com

Before making any coment please check whether it is some what right:)

[dronzer]

T-90/Arjun hibrid. You heard it here first folks.
There have been talk about it. Indian talk isn't just talk most of the time. It happens. I still remember the time some one ruined the Lahat suprise for us and the Crystal Maze and the Derby and the VLS Barhmos on Rajput.

hey dabrownguy can you please give me a link to that site. What i think is ,you went wrong with t-90 actualy it is t-72 +arjun hybrid called tank ex has got some point since r&d is now upgrading t-72 to 90% of t-90 std.

if my calculations are right then by 2015 indian army will have
front line
----------
t-90---------1000+
arjun(upgraded)--------1000+
t-72(upgraded)---------1500+

one more thing unlike pakistanis india left the idea of upgrading t-55.
for more info please refer "roject Rhino T-72 Upgrade Program" in www.bharat-rakshak.com

[aaaditya]

to know about indian army's proffessionalism maybe you should ask the united nations or try to find out more information on operation khukri.

also no armed forced are perfect ,not even usa.

indian troop live by fire almost every day.
they are involved in almost everything from gaurding the borders,combatting terrorists ,suprevising elections,disaster management etc.

and yet they have the decency of not involving themselves in coups and rebellions like many other so called armed forces do,that itself is a proof of their commitment ,professionalism and discipline.

[dronzer]

will there be any derivative of arjun .why i said this because most of you are saying that arjun was a faluire (i dont belive it).

about tankex i am little bit confused, is there any connection b/n ajay & tankex.:confused:

[aaaditya]

will there be any derivative of arjun .why i said this because most of you are saying that arjun was a faluire (i dont belive it).

about tankex i am little bit confused, is there any connection b/n ajay & tankex.:confused:

ajay(undefeatable) is the indian name for the t-72 main battle tank which the indian army currently has.

tank-x is a derivative of the arjun and the t-72,this new tank is being developed by the drdo on its own initiative,it is a cross between the arjun and the t-72,it has the arjun's turret,120mm gun,fire control system,kanchan armour,ergonomic interior design mounted on the t-72 chasis and running gear and powered by a 1200hp diesel engine(arjun is powered by the 1400hp german engine and the t-72 is powered by the russian designed 750hp deisel engine).

the tank-x weighs the same as the t-72ajeya (47.5 tons) but is equipped with the more powerfull 120mm gun capable of firing the israeli lahat missiles ,and the superior kanchan armour,with a higher rated engine.

there have been reports of another project known as the main battle tank karna ,but iam not exactly sure wether it is the official name of the tank-x project or a completely new design battle tank project.

[d_berwal]

Options are:

1) Ka - 50

2) Ka - 52

3) Mil Mi - 28N

4) AH - 64a/d

5) A-129

6) Tiger


pls tell your opinion whic one and why?

[dronzer]

Options are:

1) Ka - 50

2) Ka - 52

3) Mil Mi - 28N

4) AH - 64a/d

5) A-129

6) Tiger


pls tell your opinion whic one and why?


d_berwal what are you trying to say . From the post & the poll came to know that ia is going to buy attack hli copter.

I have so many doughts regarding this .

1) Is ia supposed to buy loh not lch.

2)What happend to our lch project.

3)like loh was abandon ,whether lch i8s abandon.


from your options i think apache is the only proven heli.



what is going on?

[dronzer]

I came to know about pak al-talah armoured personal vehicle,do we have any
apv ap-art from bmp2.

bmp2 vs al-talah ,which one will be better.

Is bmp2 an indigenous.

[d_berwal]

d_berwal what are you trying to say . From the post & the poll came to know that ia is going to buy attack hli copter.

I have so many doughts regarding this .

1) Is ia supposed to buy loh not lch.

2)What happend to our lch project.

3)like loh was abandon ,whether lch i8s abandon.


from your options i think apache is the only proven heli.



what is going on?

1) There is a requirement in IA for dedicated Attack Helicopter ( requirement for general Helicopter is also there, thus LCH (Dhruv 300 nos) will only fulfill transport helicopter requirement in 5.5ton class)

2) IA also has requirement for 10 ton class Helicopter aslo No's not known.

3) LAH ( derivative of Dhruv ) is againg a Light Attack Helicopter in 5 ton class.

4) IA wants to go for dedicated Attack Helicopters in 7-8 ton class. with a wepons load of around 2-3 tons.

5) LCH is for cheeta / chetak replacement ( 40+ already delivered)

6) LAH is for Lancer replacement (still under development)

7) Attack Helicopter ( need for 50-60 geniune anti-tank helicopters ka-50-2 is favoured over the rest as it carries isreali avoinces) theses are tro support the upgraded Mi-35 gunships.

[dronzer]

what make you think that ka 52 is a good choice ?

compared to ah64 &tiger its no where near .Any way i am sending some spec of these heli's

[dronzer]

tiger:


Builder : Eurocopter
Role : Scout, escort, anti-tank, fire support :


Weight : 6,000 kg/13,230 lb
Engine : MTR390 turboshaft
Maximum speed : 179 mph
Cruising speed HCP (roof sight): 280 km/h-150 kts
U TIGER (mast sight): 260 km/h-140 kts
Range 8 : 00 km-432 n.m.
Maximum Endurance : 3 hrs 25 min

Armament : Up to2x22 rockets
up to 2x12 rocket pods
up to 2x2 Mistral air-to-air missiles
up to 2x4 HOT anti-tank missiles
30 mm turreted gun

[dronzer]

ah 64:


Propulsion Two T700-GE-701Cs
Crew Two
AH-64A AH-64D
Length 58.17 ft (17.73 m) 58.17 ft (17.73 m)
Height 15.24 ft (4.64 m) 13.30 ft (4.05 m)
Wing Span 17.15 ft (5.227 m) 17.15 ft (5.227 m)
Primary Mission Gross Weight 15,075 lb (6838 kg)
11,800 pounds Empty 16,027 lb (7270 kg) Lot 1 Weight
Hover In-Ground Effect (MRP) 15,895 ft (4845 m)
[Standard Day]
14,845 ft (4525 m)
[Hot Day ISA + 15C] 14,650 ft (4465 m)
[Standard Day]
13,350 ft (4068 m)
[Hot Day ISA + 15 C]
Hover Out-of-Ground Effect (MRP) 12,685 ft (3866 m)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
11,215 ft (3418 m)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)] 10,520 ft (3206 m)
[Standard Day]
9,050 ft (2759 m)
[Hot Day ISA + 15 C]
Vertical Rate of Climb (MRP) 2,175 fpm (663 mpm)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
2,050 fpm (625 mpm)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)] 1,775 fpm (541 mpm)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
1,595 fpm (486 mpm)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Maximum Rate of Climb (IRP) 2,915 fpm (889 mpm)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
2,890 fpm (881 mpm)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)] 2,635 fpm (803 mpm)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
2,600 fpm (793 mpm)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Maximum Level Flight Speed 150 kt (279 kph)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
153 kt (284 kph)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)] 147 kt (273 kph)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
149 kt (276 kph)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Cruise Speed (MCP) 150 kt (279 kph)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
153 kt (284 kph)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)] 147 kt (273 kph)
[Sea Level Standard Day]
149 kt (276 kph)
[Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Range 400 km - internal fuel
1,900 km - internal and external fuel
Armament M230 33mm Gun
70mm (2.75 inch) Hydra-70 Folding-Fin Aerial Rockets
AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank missiles
AGM-122 Sidearm anti-radar missile
AIM-9 Sidewinder Air-to-Air missiles

[dronzer]

ka 50/52:

Country of Origin Russia
Builder KAMOV
Role Antihelicopter and gunship
Similar Aircraft Hirundo A109, Mangusta A129, AH-64 Apache, AH-1F Cobra
Blades Main rotor: 6 (2 heads, 3 blades each) Tail rotor: None
Rotor diameter 14.5 meters
Wing span 7.34 meters
Length rotors turning: 16 meters
fuselage: 15.0 meters
Height gear extended: 4.93 meters
gear retracted: 4 meters
Cargo Compartment Dimensions Negligible
Engines 2x 2,200-shp Klimov TV3-117VK turboshaft
Weight Maximum Gross: 10,800 kg
Normal Takeoff: 9,800 kg
Empty: 7,692 kg
Standard Payload External weapons load: 2,500 kg on 4 under-wing stores points.
Speed Maximum (level): 340 km/h (est.)
Cruise: 270-310 km/h
Sideward: 100+ km/h, Rearward: 100+ km/h
Turn Rate unlimited
Max “G” Force +3 to +3.5 g
Ceiling Service: 5,500 meters
Hover (out of ground effect): 4,000 meters
Hover (in ground effect): 5,500 meters
Vertical Climb Rate 10 m/s
Fuel (liters) Internal: INA
External Fuel Tank: 500 ea. (max 4x)
Range (km) Maximum Load: INA
Normal Load: 460
With Aux Fuel: INA
Armament 1x 2A42 30-mm cannon [250 HE-Frag + 250 AP]
2 - AT-16 VIKhR ATGM (6 each)
2 - 80-mm rockets (20 each)
2 - Twin 23-mm gun pods [940 rounds]
4 - 500-kg bombs
2 - AA-11/ARCHER AAM
External fuel tanks (500 liters)

30-mm Automatic Cannon, 2A42:
Range: effective 3,000 m
Elevation: -45° to +10°
Traverse: ±15°
Ammo type and rate of fire is selectable by pilot (HE or AP, 350 or 600)

Most Probable Armament:
Fuselage-mounted 30-mm cannon on right side
80-mm rockets
AT-16 VIKhR ATGMs [ATGM racks can depress to 12°]

AVIONICS The HOKUM uses a low-light level TV or thermal sighting, a laser range-finder (10 km), FLIR, air data sensor, and digital data-link which interface with a fire control com-puter, an autopilot, a helmet sighting system and HUD for target location, acquisition, designation, and firing. Night/Weather Capabilities:
This aircraft’s avionics package ensuring a full day/night, all weather capability. If it is to be employed at night in an attack role, it must be fitted with a night targeting pod. This pod includes a FLIR, a millimeter wave radar, and an electro-optical sight takes up one of the underwing pylons. The Ka-50N, and Ka-52 are capable of performing attack missions in day/night, and all-weather conditions.
The French companies Thomson-CSF, and Sextant Avionique offer nav/attack systems, which can be fitted to export variants.

Survivability/Countermeasures Main rotors and engines electrically deiced.
Infrared signature suppressors can be mounted on engine exhausts.
Radar warning receivers, IFF, chaff and flares.
Armored cockpit and self-sealing fuel tanks.
Pilot ejection system.

Crew 1 (pilots, 2 in Ka-52)
Cost
User Countries Preproduction in Russia. An initial fielding plan is for 2 per year for 14 years.

[dronzer]

havoc:

Country of Origin Russia
Builder MIL
Role Attack
Similar Aircraft Mangusta A129, AH-64 Apache, AH-1F Cobra
Rotor diameter 56 ft (17.04 m)
Length 57 ft (17.4 m)
Armament AAMs, antitank missiles, cannon, rockets
Crew Two

[d_berwal]

I came to know about pak al-talah armoured personal vehicle,do we have any
apv ap-art from bmp2.

bmp2 vs al-talah ,which one will be better.

Is bmp2 an indigenous.

APC Talha

APC Talha has been designed and manufactured by APC Factory Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT). There is a flexibility in the design that the Engine compartment can accommodate power pack with 275 HP Detroit Diesel 6V53T turbocharged engine or 330 HP UTD-20, a Ukrainian engine. TALHA is an all terrain, amphibious infantry support vehicle with 12.7 mm machine gun as its main armament. Adequate crew compartment space provides excellent crew comfort. Survivability is enhanced through use of external fuel tanks. Various forms of bolt-on armour can be added to increase armour protection of the vehicle.

SPECIFICATIONS

General
Length 218.5 inches
Width 100 inches
Height 99.25 inches
Combat Weight 12.5 Ton
Weight, curb 10.6 Ton
Personnel Capacity 13
Fuel Tank Capacity 390 lit
Amphibious Condition Yes, free board - 18 inches
Cruising Range 320 miles
Nominal Ground Pressure 7.79 psi
Number of Shoes 67 left side, 68 right side
Powerpack (Two Options)
Option 1 - Detroit Diesel 6V53T
Type Two Stroke Cycle
Fuel Diesel
Rated Power 275 HP
Power to Weight Ratio 22 HP/Ton
Transmission
Make & Model Allison TX 100-1A
Type Automatic, 3 Speed
Steering Differential or Pivot Brake
Pivot Brake Type Disc
Option 1 - UTD-20
Type Four Stroke Cycle
Fuel Diesel
Rated Power 330 HP
Power to Weight Ratio 25 HP/Ton
Transmission
Make & Model Hydro Mechanical
Type Mechanical, 6 F, 1 R
Steering Planetary
Pivot Brake Type Disc
Optional
Firing Ports Available
Periscope for Crew Available

BMP-2 IFV

Crew: 3 + 7 soldiers.

Combat Weight: 12,800 kg.

Ground Pressure: 0.64 kg/cm2.

Engine: 6-cylinder in-line water cooled diesel developing 300 bhp.

Fuel Capacity: 462 litres.

Maximum Speed: 65 km/h on land and 7 km/h on water.

Maximum Range: 550 - 600 km.

Transmission: Manual, 5 forward and 1 reverse.

Suspension: Torsion bar, hydraulic shock absorbers on 1st, 2nd and 6th road wheels.

Clutch: Multiplate dry constant engagement.

Electrical System: 22-29V.

Gradient: 60%.

Slide Slope: 30%.

Vertical Obstacle: 0.7 metres.

Trench Crossing: 2.5 metres.

Armament: 1 x 30mm 2A42 automatic cannon with 1000 rounds.
...............1 x 7.62mm PKT machine gun with 2000 rounds. (Co-Axial)
...............1 launcher rail for the AT-5 Spandrel or AT-4 Spigot ATGW.

Gun Elevation/Depression: +75º/-5º.

Smoke Launching Equipment: Six 81mm smoke grenade discharges, with diesel fuel injected into the exhaust.

Indigenous variants produced: Mortar Carrier
.........................................Field Ambulance
.........................................Akash SAM carrier
.........................................Engineer Recovery Vehicle
.........................................Armoured Amphibious Dozer
.........................................Trishul (SAM) Combat Vehicle
.........................................NAMICA (NAg MIssile CArrier)
.........................................105mm Self Propelled Gun carrier
.........................................Armoured Vehicle Tracked Light Repair
*The above vehicles are in various stages of development and not all are used in the Army.

Comments: Known as the Sarath (Chariot of Victory) in the Army. Production continues at 100 per year and 900+ are in active service. BMP stands for Bronevaya Maschina Piekhota. On 20 February 2002, the Simulator Development Division (SDD), Secunderabad launched the first indigenously-developed Aiming Training Simulator for the personnel who man the BMP-II ICV. The simulator is designed & developed to impart comprehensive training in the areas of acquisition and engagement of all kinds of targets including aerial ones to improve their responses and aiming skills. The simulator is expected to usher in an era of safe, realistic and cost effective training. SDD is a premier Category 'A' establishment of the Indian Army, for in-house development of training simulators. SDD has a number of other simulators to its credit which are already in service. The small yet significant organisation continues to grow and excel in the field of simulation and modelling towards evolution of world class training simulators for the Indian Army.

[aaaditya]

india is currently developing one known as the abhay to replace the sarath(bmp2),not much info is available about ,except that it is beased on western design , expected to weigh 23.5 tons ,is powered by a 40mm bofors guns,will be equipped with missiles and will have a 550hp engine,the us company david brown which was involved in the development of the bradley,challenger is developing the transmission system for the abhay.

the abhay is expected to be tested from 2007 onwards,i have posted an image of it in the indian millitary pics thread of this forum,it is the image of a prototype ,the actual production variant may be different.

there is another variant(a wheeled version)is currently under development,the image of which has been posted on www.acig.org (http://www.acig.org).

besides this india have developed two more light troop carrier vehicles known as the hunky and tuffy. hunky is to be exported to iraq.

the al-talha is not an indigenous pakistani design but is a modified version of the us m113 armoured personnel carrier.

[d_berwal]

what make you think that ka 52 is a good choice ?

compared to ah64 &tiger its no where near .Any way i am sending some spec of these heli's

here is a comparison of attack helicopter in the attached word file.

With a TOT and Isreali / french / avoinces we can make it an amazing beast which can creat havoc in enemy armour formations

[aaaditya]

well here is a surprising news:

Post '07, 155mm gun to be Army's mainstay

January 13, 2006 23:33 IST


Army chief Gen J J Singh on Friday said the process of acquiring more than 400 155mm howitzers to boost the force's firepower was going smoothly and that the guns were likely to be inducted by next year.
"Our projection of the artillery profile of the Army is to have the 155mm/52 calibre howitzer as our primary weapon and we are proceeding on the acquisitions. The contenders are being trial-evaluated and the tests are likely to be completed by the end of this year," he said at a press conference on the eve of the Army Day.

The Army chief said the force would carry out two trials - the summer tests in the deserts and the high-altitude tests in the winters - before deciding on its choice.

He declined to answer queries on whether the newly-risen controversy over Bofors can hamper the acquisition plans, as the gun of AB Systems - the successor to the Swedish arms major - was one of the contenders.
"We will select the one which performs the best and meets all our parameters. It is then upto the government to approve. Whatever they decide, we will accept," Gen Singh said, adding, "We anticipate inductions to begin by 2007. If we get a gun that meets all our requirements."

The Indian Army's planned acquisition of howitzers from among three contenders - AB Systems, Israel's Soltam Systems and the South African Denel Ltd - had been stymied after the Defence Ministry blacklisted Denel following revelations of improper conduct by the South African firm, and the Israeli gun did not meet the necessary criteria.
This left the Swedish gun as the only contender, thus violating the Comptroller and Auditor General guidelines of not going in for single-vendor procurement.

Since then, new contenders, including Russia, Slovakia, and the United Kingdom, had reportedly entered the contest. There were also indications that the Indian Army was willing to rely on the test results, conducted elsewhere in similar conditions than go in for tests itself, in a bid to speed up the deal.



by the way can anyone give some info on any 155mm field gun that uk or slovakia may have? does slovakia have a spg,last heard even singapore and south korea had been invited.

uk had a light howitzer project but they cancelled it.

well here is the link for this article:

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/jan/13gun.htm

[aaaditya]

well guys here is an inteersting news on a new grenade developed for indian army,seems pretty usefull ,though i believe that it is absically a stun grenade.

New grenade developed

Special Correspondent



HYDERABAD: The Pune-based High Energy Materials Research Laboratory has developed a grenade capable of penetrating a nine-inch thick wall, create fire and smoke. It would help in flushing out terrorists holed up in a building. The development trials are over, A. Subhananda Rao, director, HEMRL told reporters on the sidelines of an international conference.
He said the laboratory was also developing fool-proof explosive detectors and jammers. The detectors would identify explosives 10-20 metres away without any false alarms. They were expected to be ready in one to two years.
While the jammers now being used can neutralise only certain radio frequencies and not mobile frequencies, the new ones would jam radio and mobile frequencies. The devices were expected to be ready in six months, he said.
The HEMRL, in collaboration with the Advanced Centre for High Energy Materials Laboratory at the University of Hyderabad, was developing new compounds like "insensitive RDX", Mr. Rao said.

here is the link:
http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/16/stories/2006011604960700.htm

[aaaditya]

well guess the indian artillery competition has reached its final stages with only the israeli soaltam and the bae bofors archer remaining:

here is the link:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/01/india-to-make-2-bn-artillery-decision-by-2007/index.php

[aaaditya]

some more interesting news:

seems that the indian ordinance factories have developed a series of new weapons for the indian army.

these are:

1)vidhwanshak-a new generation anti material rifle with changeable calibers of 12.7,14.5 and 20mm barrels(to be tested by the indian army this year)intended to replace the denel guns.

2)insas 5.56mm carbine with replaceable barrels of 5.56mm and 9mm barrels(orders for 30000 weapons placed by the indian defence ministry for the paramillitary forces).

3)a new generation submachine gun jointly developed by india and israel(9mm caliber)

4)40mm multibarreled grenade launcher(reverse engineered)

5)automatic smoke shell launcher for firing smoke and illumination shells for the anti riot forces.

here are the links for these very intersting articles,i believe amit has posted their images on this forum.

http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=1507

http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage.php?storyflag=y&leftnm=lmnu2&leftindx=2&lselect=1&chklogin=N&autono=210813

[Kiwi Echo]

about the choppers

i say tiger all the way

but wat about a NH-90 for transport

[aaaditya]

about the choppers

i say tiger all the way

but wat about a NH-90 for transport

i believe india is developing a helicopter called as the lch(light combat helicopter) based on the alh design and claimed to be comparable to the tiger,so there is no question of india going for the tiger.

for medium helicopters india is favouring the eh101 and the cougar,eurocopter and westland have both offered joint development of these helicopters whichever one is selected,as a matter of fact indian airforce top brass have flown in the eh101 and were very impressed by it.

[aaaditya]

well here is an interesting news article ,seems that tata wants to increase its involvement in indian buisness in a big way and would be investing 225-250million dollars in the indian defence industry followed by another 500million dollars by 2008,well we can expect to see some quality products fromtheir stable soon.

here is the link for this news article:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/02/tata-to-invest-227m-in-indias-defense-sector/index.php

[aaaditya]

well eems the us company general motors is trying to enter into the indian market with its humvee and the hummer.

though i cant understand what's so special about those moving boxes,but they would be priced at around 4 to 5 million rupees.

well here is the link:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1408904,curpg-1.cms

[aaaditya]

finally guys ,the brahmos has become operational with the indian army(according to the indian defence minister).

this missile had already become operational with the navy,now only the submarine and the air launched variant are awaited.

here check out this link:

http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=23239

[zoolander]

The Bahmos is a anti ship missile what does that have to do with the army?



Lets go back to the begginning of this thread. You guys were talking about the Insas. How does do it compare to a AK47 and galil. Please state stats like the accuaracy and rate of fire, recoil, avaliable mods, and etc.

Dont put too much opinion into this please.

[dabrownguy]

If you take a look here.
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/brahmos.jpg
You'll see PJ-10 on a TEL. Not 1 but 3. Why does the army need it? Well for one the Prithvi are probabily higher mantenance and slower to moblize. PJ-10 comes in with accuracy, speed, and cost facter. Not only that, some Prithvi SRBM are getting old. The Army needs a replacement obviously. Until LORA starts coming in.
Also about the INSAS. Well to be honest. It looks like a vintage gun. Manfucturing quality is pretty low too. Design is...good. What I like about it is the chromium lining on the barrell. I hate the color. Although its avaliable in black. I like the transperant clip. And as for your question on mods. Well it comes with almost everything. UBGL, NV scope, scope and other sights. Avlaliable in a variety. Led to more designs.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/images/INSAS.jpg
INSAS with NV scope.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/images/ReflexSight03.jpg
INSAS with MARS sight.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/AeroIndia2003/Indoor-Insas.jpg
Black INSAS exported to Nepal and Kenya.
http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/indian2/w1.jpg
INSAS guns.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/images/ExcaliburINSAS.jpg
Carbine INSAS ordered by the para military.

[aaaditya]

The Bahmos is a anti ship missile what does that have to do with the army?



Lets go back to the begginning of this thread. You guys were talking about the Insas. How does do it compare to a AK47 and galil. Please state stats like the accuaracy and rate of fire, recoil, avaliable mods, and etc.

Dont put too much opinion into this please.

for detailed information including specifications of the indsas assault rifle i suggest you check out the following websites www.bharat-rakshak.com (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com) and www.world.guns.ru (http://www.world.guns.ru) .

[aaaditya]

If you take a look here.
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/brahmos.jpg
You'll see PJ-10 on a TEL. Not 1 but 3. Why does the army need it? Well for one the Prithvi are probabily higher mantenance and slower to moblize. PJ-10 comes in with accuracy, speed, and cost facter. Not only that, some Prithvi SRBM are getting old. The Army needs a replacement obviously. Until LORA starts coming in.
Also about the INSAS. Well to be honest. It looks like a vintage gun. Manfucturing quality is pretty low too. Design is...good. What I like about it is the chromium lining on the barrell. I hate the color. Although its avaliable in black. I like the transperant clip. And as for your question on mods. Well it comes with almost everything. UBGL, NV scope, scope and other sights. Avlaliable in a variety. Led to more designs.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/images/INSAS.jpg
INSAS with NV scope.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/images/ReflexSight03.jpg
INSAS with MARS sight.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/AeroIndia2003/Indoor-Insas.jpg
Black INSAS exported to Nepal and Kenya.
http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/indian2/w1.jpg
INSAS guns.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/images/ExcaliburINSAS.jpg
Carbine INSAS ordered by the para military.

there are actually 3 versions of prithvi:

prithvi 1- range 40-150kms -1000 kg warhead-liquid fuelled.

prithvi 2-range 150-250kms-500kg warhead-liquid fuelled.

prithvi 3-range upto 350 kms-750kg warhead (to be increased to 1000 kgs)-solid fuelled ,the prithvi 3 known as dhanush requires very less maintainenece than the other two being a a solid fuelled missile an dcan also be used by the navy.

for detailed info on these missiles check out www.bharat-rakshak.com (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com)

[zoolander]

I heard rumors that the Arjun is finally going to go into production. Is thsi tank better than the T-90s? I believe it isnt.

[dabrownguy]

http://www.hindu.com/2004/08/08/images/2004080807640801.jpg
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040808/ind1.jpg
Five MBT's handed over to the army. Now please stop giving me a headache.