Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion [Archive] - Page 8

aaaditya

February 20th, 2007, 06:29 AM

hey guys ,great news here,india coast guard is planning rapid and comprehensive expansion to step out of the indian navy's shadows.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1931258,0008.htm

The Coast Guard may be the youngest of the armed forces but it is inching closer towards establishing a formidable identity of its own.

And its efforts to step out of the "Navy's shadow" were backed by Defence Minister AK Antony, who said on Sunday that the Coast Guard would be provided more ships, aircraft, surveillance equipment and unmanned aerial vehicles to make it a reckonable force in the Indian Ocean Region. He said the extension of the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) after the delineation of the continental shelf would place additional responsibilities on the Coast Guard.

"It is mandated with the task of protecting 2.01 million square kms of India's EEZ. But in the new scenario, its responsibilities will extend beyond 3 million square kms," Antony said after reviewing a Coast Guard fleet to mark its 30th anniversary.

As part of a campaign to enhance its "deepwater capabilities", the Coast Guard has formulated its 15-year perspective plan for the acquisition of 15 new ships and 23 aircraft during 2007-2022. Antony assured that its requirements would be met.

The air assets sought by the Coast Guard, which operates Dorniers and Chetaks, include multi-mission maritime aircraft, twin-engine helicopters and UAVs for sharpening its surveillance capabilities.

Coast Guard Director General Vice Admiral Rusi Contractor said the force's responsibilities had increased manifold since its creation 30 years ago in terms of protecting India's maritime interests, marine wealth and ocean resources.

To effectively meet the challenges of its varied roles, the Coast Guard will be expanding its fleet in the near future with the induction of five fast patrol boats, two advanced offshore patrol vessels, three pollution control vessels, three inshore patrol vessels and 11 interceptor boats. It has commissioned new stations at Pondicherry, Beypore and Kakinada to bridge the surveillance gap along the Coromandel and Malabar coasts. These stations assume significance
in the light of oil and gas finds off Chennai and in the Krishna Godavari basin.

Antony emphasised that the Coast Guard needed bigger ships, more infrastructure and additional manpower keeping in view its diversified role. The force has also been appointed the focal agency in the country to combat piracy and armed robbery under the Regional Agreement on Combating Piracy and Armed Robbery against Ships in Asia — a pact signed by 16 countries.

Antony said the force, under a home ministry initiative, was also assisting several states to set up maritime police stations and train police personnel under the coastal guarantee scheme. The objective of the move is to ensure that small dinghies and craft cannot be used to land contraband to the Indian shores.

contedicavour

February 20th, 2007, 11:40 AM

russians have an air independent propulsion system known as the krystall ,and are also offering it with their type 636 kilo class of submarines.

AFAIK the Krystall is still a proposal, with no operational submarines carrying it. I wonder how much this factor could influence the selection process by the Indian navy. IIRC India was very upset by battery problems in the Kilos it received from Russia (although at the end the issue was fixed).

cheers

aaaditya

February 21st, 2007, 06:12 AM

here check out this link ,it contains an interesting history of the krystal air independent propulsion system.

here check out this link :

http://milparade.udm.ru/29/022.htm

contedicavour

February 25th, 2007, 02:03 PM

here check out this link ,it contains an interesting history of the krystal air independent propulsion system.

here check out this link :

http://milparade.udm.ru/29/022.htm

Thks interesting reading.
Though you noticed the article is from 1998 and since then the near total absence of details on the evolution of Russian AIPs makes me doubtful their shipbuilding industry can be competitive vs U212 and Scorpene/Marlin when the need for a performing AIP is clearly stated.
The Russians have SSNs and SSGNs for offensive missions and can rely on good old coastal SSKs without AIP for purely defensive missions close to bases.
Anyway, let's keep our eyes open

cheers

aaaditya

February 26th, 2007, 10:30 PM

hey guys ,great news here,indian navy has validated its new war doctrine during the reently conducted tropex.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.indiaenews.com/india/20070226/41056.htm

Utilising some of its newly inducted assets like unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), airborne early warning helicopters and cutting edge missiles, the Indian Navy has validated its new warfare doctrine during an exercise conducted off the country's west coast.
The just-concluded TROPEX (Theatre-level Readiness Operational Exercises) 2007, the navy's largest annual exercise, commenced on Jan 30 and saw the participation of all the force's major combatants, as also significant elements from the Indian Army, the Indian Air Force, and the Indian Coast
Guard.
'The thrust of this year's edition was to validate the concept of 'Maritime Manoeuvre from the Sea' that is designed to ensure that in a short, swift and intense conflict, the navy is able to directly address and favourably influence the progress and outcome of the air-land battle,' a navy spokesman said Monday.
Toward this end, the recently acquired Israeli UAVs, Kamov-31 AEW helicopters, and state-of-the-art surface-to-air missile-systems like the Barak, Shtil, and Kashmir, as also land-attack missiles, 'all of which represent major accretions in the navy's capabilities', were also deployed, he added.
Several new operational concepts that had earlier been 'war gamed' as part of a series of tabletop exercises were played out at sea and valuable lessons learnt.
'These lessons will now be fed back into the navy's analysis organisations and will, thereafter, be utilised to refine operational doctrines,' the spokesman said.
Principal among these concepts were those relating to 'jointmanship' that seeks to enhance the efficacy of operations planned and executed jointly by operational commanders of the four services.
'Significantly higher levels of coordination were achieved during TROPEX-2007', which was also witnessed by senior representatives from the defence and shipping ministries, the spokesman said.
'Overall, the exercise provided tremendous training value through the testing of human and material endurance, the execution of organisational and logistics plans, and, finally, delivering the punch in a mock battle.
'Activities such as the activation of the country's coastal defence organisation, naval control of merchant shipping, and the chartering of merchant ships to augment the logistics train at sea were also comprehensively exercised to assess the effectiveness of the navy's plans,' the spokesman said.

aaaditya

March 2nd, 2007, 06:37 AM

hey guys,great news here ,indian coast guard is to acquire deep water capabilities.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jni/jni070301_1_n.shtml

The Indian Coast Guard is to augment its deepwater capabilities with a range of new ships and aircraft by 2022, to render it a "reckonable" force in the Indian Ocean region, according to defence minister A K Antony.

The Indian Coast Guard has 27 ships, including five fast patrol vessels, two advanced offshore patrol vessels, three pollution control vessels and 11 interceptor boats, under construction in yards across the country. This is aside from the assets envisaged in the 15-year perspective plan as part of the force's overall aim of stepping out of the Indian Navy's shadow.

Beginning in 1977 with two frigates and five patrol boats leased from the Indian Navy, the Indian Coast Guard currently operates 76 ships and 45 aircraft.

Turk

March 2nd, 2007, 12:51 PM

India bought Talwar class Frigates do you know how this ships dangerous ?

tatra

March 2nd, 2007, 02:17 PM

India bought Talwar class Frigates do you know how this ships dangerous ?
IMHO not any more or less dangerous than any other (heavy) frigate. It's a good all round assets.

aaaditya

March 2nd, 2007, 10:59 PM

the talwar class were the first stealth vessels of the indian navy,their unique feature was their high weapon load and multi role capability for a relatively smaller displacement,indian navy has been very impressed by their performance and has now placed a follow up order worth 1.2 billion dollars for three additional and improved project 1135.6 krivack (improved talwar) class of frigates to be built by the russian yantar shipyard,these frigates would be carrying more sadvanced surface to air weaponery ,the more advanced radars and the brahmos cruise missiles instead of the klub.

tphuang

March 3rd, 2007, 12:23 AM

aaaditya

March 3rd, 2007, 07:32 AM

have you taken a serious look at talwar? How can you possibly call that thing a stealth ship? The only thing it's more stealthy than is the Sov.

i meant compared to the other indian naval ships,besides stealth is not just a design factor and also the fact is that the indian navy is realy happy by the performance and capabilities of these vessels.

suryaaa

March 3rd, 2007, 01:21 PM

Guys any update on our ADS which is currently under construction somewhere kochi.Will there be any other project followed by this ADS.
Which one is better scorpion or amur(which we will be buying in the second phase of project 75).If your answer is amur ,then why did we opt scorpions
in phase one?????.

contedicavour

March 5th, 2007, 01:31 PM

Which one is better scorpion or amur(which we will be buying in the second phase of project 75).If your answer is amur ,then why did we opt scorpions
in phase one?????.

Well apparently the Indian Navy doesn't want to rely on only one supplier of submarine technology ...
Amur technically doesn't exist yet (unless you consider the Lada/St Petersburg as being almost identical to Amur...) so comparing it to Scorpene is a bit tough. Scorpene does have one huge advantage though : functioning AIP...

cheers

kams

March 6th, 2007, 01:54 PM

aaaditya

March 10th, 2007, 09:10 PM

hey guys,great news here,ins hansa will be the base for the mig29k's once they are inducted later this year and will also base all the indian navy's ship based helicopters.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEK20070310000957

KARWAR: INS Hansa, the premier
Saturday March 10 2007 10:31 IST
KARWAR: INS Hansa, the premier air station of the Indian Navy and also the pride of Goa Naval Area, is poised to scale new heights with the induction of MiG-29K fighter aircraft into the Navy 2007, according to the sources in the Navy.

The Naval version of this aircraft will be the air arm of the new aircrfat carrier, INS Vikramaditya, which the Navy will acquire from Russia shortly.

In fact INS Vikramaditya is the rechristened name of Admiral Gorshkov, the Russian carrier. Mig-29K, which provides air defence to the fleet, flies at maximum speed of 2,400 km an hour. It has air combat radius of 850 km. It has data link through satellite.

According to sources already the first batch of Navy pilots is in Russia for training.

Sagar Pawan Aerobatic team

The sources said the Navy had unique distinction having an aerobatics team, Sagar Pawan, which could captivate the audience with its aerobatic manoeuvres such as loops, barrel rolls, upward rolls and high speed runs.

Incidentally India is the only country other than US to boast of having such a team. This team had been performing during all important national events, sources said. It would demonostrate its skill on the banks of Hugli in Kolkata on March 24.

Another interesting feature is that Indian Navy is the only Naval Force in the world to possess Kamov-31, the helicopter, which performs air surveillances. The sources said Karwar Naval Base would be a home for the naval helicopters based on the ships in future. They clarified that it was only airstrip and not the airfield that would be built near Karwar.

There were topographical constraints at Karwar to build airfield, they added.

Land for airport

The sources said that 8.77 acres of Naval land in the Goa Naval Area would be handed over to Airport Authority of India for the expansion of International Airport at Dabolim shortly.

contedicavour

March 11th, 2007, 04:10 PM

Defensenews is reporting that India and Russia have agreed on a 5 year $350 million lease of two Akula II submarines. The agreement was reportedly signed during President Putins India visit. These Akula II will be armed with Club missiles (version not specified). A group of Indian sailors have been training for the last 2 years at Sosnovy Bor. First of the boats will be delivered to Vishakapattanam Naval base next year.

Link (http://defensenews.com/channel.php?C=thisweek)

Wow this is a huge step ahead for India's navy ! Last time a lease took place it was for a humble Golf class SSG ... I'm curious to see whether India's future SSNs will be basically evolved Akulas with Indian cruise missiles.

cheers

aaaditya

March 12th, 2007, 07:44 PM

hey guys ,great news here ,india is developing the sittwe port in myanmar which is located about 160kms from the indian province of mizoram as its prime port to cater to the needs of the north eastern india,i believe this port will give india some strategic advantages with respect to counter chinese influence in the region.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/25419.html

Come 2009, and India will no longer have to worry about not being allowed river transit between the North-East and the rest of the country through Bangladesh. Sittwe, a port in Myanmar, being developed with India’s support, will provide sea link to the North-East through Kaladan, a river in Mizoram.

Union Minister for Development of Northeastern Region Mani Shankar Aiyar said Bangladesh’s refusal to permit transit facilities to India and its turning down repeated requests to use the Chittagong port for North-East will be history. “The focus is now on developing Kaladan and by the time the Sittwe port is ready, Kaladan will also become fully navigable,” Aiyar said.
Bangladesh has turned down several requests by India to allow river transport transit from the North-East to the sea, compelling India to explore Sittwe in Myanmar— 160 km from Mizoram—situated at the mouth of the Kaladan river. While work has already begun in Sittwe, the crucial three-day meeting of the North-Eastern Council, which ended here on Sunday, focused on speedy development of the river so that North-East gets its sea outlet as early as possible.

“The North-East cannot wait any longer. Once Sittwe is developed and Kaladan becomes fully navigable, we can forget about looking at Chittagong for a sea route,” Aiyar said.

kams

March 12th, 2007, 10:38 PM

Wow this is a huge step ahead for India's navy ! Last time a lease took place it was for a humble Golf class SSG ... I'm curious to see whether India's future SSNs will be basically evolved Akulas with Indian cruise missiles.

cheers

Conte,
I have no idea about what the homegrown SSNs (ATV) will evolve from, but the same report also mentioned 2 hulls for Indigenous SSN have been ordered from Larsen and Toubro. The reactor was undergoing ground testing.

Interestingly, no Russian crew will be abroad the Akula, unlike the last time when India had leased Charlie class where reactor was manned by Russian crew.

Another interesting titbit mentioned in the report, these can not be used in joint exercises with any western navies.:D

There are also reports originating in Moscow that India has received delivery of 4 T-22s. No independent confirmation though.

aaaditya

March 18th, 2007, 11:34 PM

hey guys,check out this interesting article,it contains some interesting information regarding the status of the atv class of nuclear powered submarines.

here is the link and the article:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/N-submarine_may_be_operational_by_2012/articleshow/1776200.cms

NEW DELHI: After a series of technical hiccups, India's long-running project to build nuclear submarines is finally gaining momentum. As per the revised target, the Navy is likely to get the first such operational submarine by 2012.

Sources said this was the "general assessment" at a top-level meeting to review progress of the hush-hush Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) programme on Friday, which was attended by defence minister A K Antony, among others.

Though official word is hard to come by on the secretive ATV project, which formally kicked off in 1983 but has made excruciatingly slow progress since then, it's learnt that the first prototype of the nuclear-powered guided-missile attack submarine would be "launched" in the "near future".

"And if there are no more hitches, the first of the two ATVs should be ready for being commissioned into Navy by 2011-2012. The overall project cost has been hiked by 30% to take it to around Rs 14,000 crore, with ultimately five ATVs planned by around 2025," said a source.

The work on the ATV project revolves around the Vishakhapatnam naval dockyard, where the basic submarine hull and structure are fabricated, and the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research at Kalpakkam, where PWRs (pressurised water reactors) for the submarine's propulsion system are tested.

One of the main reasons for the long delay has been the technical problem of designing and fitting a miniaturised PWR and its containment vessel in the submarine's hull. After the PWRs designed by Bhabha Atomic Research Centre failed to pass muster, India had turned to Russia for two 90-megawatt PWRs and related parts. There are also some Israeli, French and German imprints in the project.

"There were some problems with the integration of the Russian PWRs also. Work is now going ahead with a mixed design for the propulsion system," said the source.

The entire aim behind the ATV programme is to have nuclear-powered submarines, armed with nuclear-tipped cruise or ballistic missiles, to ensure "credible" second-strike capabilities in consonance with India's "no-first use" nuclear doctrine.

Nuclear-powered submarines have higher speeds and can stay submerged much longer than conventional diesel-electric submarines - which have to surface or snorkel frequently to get oxygen to recharge batteries - and thereby provide a much more invulnerable launch pad for nuclear weapons.

Though India already has nuclear-capable aircraft and mobile land-based missiles like Agni-I and Agni-II, it's hoped the ATV project will finally provide it with the third leg of the nuclear triad.

aaaditya

March 19th, 2007, 02:41 AM

hey guys,great news here,according to the indian defence minister ,the first indigenous aircraft carrier is to be ready on schedule by 2012 ,and on successfull completion of the project indian navy is to place further orders with the cochin shipyards limited.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/19/stories/2007031902571300.htm

KOCHI: The incorporation of the Integrity Pact in defence contracts will usher in transparency in the sector, Defence Minister A.K. Antony said.
The pact has penal provisions to ensure that there are no underhand dealings in arms purchases.
Addressing mediapersons at the Southern Naval Command here on Sunday after delivering the keynote address at a seminar on maritime issues and challenges, he said the 12-member Defence Acquisition Council with him as the Chairman, takes joint decisions on defence purchases.
The Council has as members the chiefs of the three services and officials from related departments. The integrated Council was formed to counter corruption and speed up decision-making in military procurements.
Answering a query on the terrorist threat to the country from the seas, he said the Navy, Coast Guard and personnel of coastal police stations must act in coordination, to thwart attempts to attack our coastal assets.
"Joint patrolling by the navies of India and Sri Lanka has been suggested, to keep trouble-makers at bay. We already have unmanned aerial vehicles to do surveillance of the coast. Three offshore-patrol vessels and more helicopters will be commissioned into the Navy."
Referring to the nation's first indigenous aircraft carrier under construction in Cochin Shipyard, Mr. Antony said the vessel will roll out as scheduled, in 2012. "We will place orders with the shipyard for more warships, if the delivery is on time."
He said Special Economic Zones should not be at the cost of peasants. Development clusters like port-based SEZs must not cause land-speculation. "The peasant is the bedrock of our society and economy." Referring to the deliberations at the maritime seminar, Mr. Antony said that common people must be accorded primacy, instead of concentrating on grand projects alone.

Superczar

March 19th, 2007, 05:33 AM

One of the main reasons for the long delay has been the technical problem of designing and fitting a miniaturised PWR and its containment vessel in the submarine's hull. After the PWRs designed by Bhabha Atomic Research Centre failed to pass muster, India had turned to Russia for two 90-megawatt PWRs and related parts. There are also some Israeli, French and German imprints in the project.

Rajat Pandit at it again :onfloorl: Dont count on this report guys.

IIRC the nuclear reactor has reached a good stage previous year but capacity isnt known.

aaaditya

March 19th, 2007, 03:31 PM

hey guys,here is another interesting news article on the atv class of submarine ,this time from a different source.

here is the link and the article:

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india-launches-1st-nuclear-submarine/36394-3.html

New Delhi: India is set to launch its first nuclear submarine later this year which if successful will put the country in an extremely exclusive club.

The project codenamed the Advanced Technology Vessel has been crawling since the 1970s.

Reports now indicate that India has overcome the biggest problem or miniaturisation of a nuclear power plant that is to be mounted on a submarine hull.

There are whispers of Russian assistance with the mini nuclear plant that has been reportedly tested and validated at Kalpakkam.

The vessel will be launched in Vishakapatnam and sea trials for this submarine are slated to begin by 2010, and are expected to be fully operational by 2012.

The vessel displaces 6, 500 tonnes and can stay submerged for upto 100 days. Armed with guided missiles, it will have a crew of 70 people.

The last time the Indian Navy operated a nuclear submarine was in the late 1980s, when it leased a Russian Charlie class vessel.

India is also in negotiations to acquire two Russian-made nuclear submarines of the Akula class.

XEROX

March 19th, 2007, 08:07 PM

South Korea, India Open Arms Sale Talks

By Jung Sung-ki
Staff Reporter
Senior defense officials from South Korea and India on Monday opened their first-ever talks on cooperation in weapons sales, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said Monday.

The meeting is a follow-up to a memorandum of understanding on defense acquisition cooperation signed in September 2005, the office said in a statement.

Lee Sun-hi, commissioner of the DAPA, represented South Korea at the five-day meeting, while K. P. Singh, India's secretary for defense production, led the Indian delegation, it said in a statement.

``The two sides will discuss ways to cooperate on the development and export of 5,000-ton frigates, armored vehicles, military trucks, K-9 howitzers and so on,'' a DAPA spokesman said, on the condition of anonymity.

The two countries will also address issues regarding cooperation on procurement systems and defense technology, he said.

``Korea-India cooperation will bring a synergy effect because Seoul sees India as a strong trading partner for arms sales, given the country's ongoing arms race with the United States and China, while New Delhi has a keen interest in our country's high-end defense technologies such as shipbuilding, the spokesman added.

Currently, South Korea and India are conducting joint research on K-9 self-propelled artillery and mine countermeasure vessels. Seoul holds arms sales meetings with a total of 24 countries around the world annually.

Later in the day, the Indian delegates paid a courtesy call to Defense Minister Kim Jang-soo at the ministry in Seoul.

The Indian officials are scheduled to visit the state-run Agency for Defense Development in Taejon and other defense firms before leaving Seoul on Friday, DAPA officials said.

Link (http://times.hankooki.com)

This is very intresting news, if true im sure this is a start for something big for Indo-Korean ties.

From the article im asuming a JV for 5000-Tone Frigate is on the cards?

Superczar

March 20th, 2007, 04:24 AM

From the article im asuming a JV for 5000-Tone Frigate is on the cards?

Dont know the quality of journalist who wrote the article but i doubt it, Indian Navy has already flown a RFP to Europe for a possible Design of new generation Frigates with each costing around 800 mn dollars, 7 of such will be made i really dont think any more Frigates are on the line after 7 + 3 Shivaliks under construction.

Though nothing has been finalised we may as well go for a design fusion, lets see what our Naval Design Beaureau selects.

But i remember reading a JV for mine countermeasure Glass fibre vessel with korea.

aaaditya

March 20th, 2007, 09:09 AM

Dont know the quality of journalist who wrote the article but i doubt it, Indian Navy has already flown a RFP to Europe for a possible Design of new generation Frigates with each costing around 800 mn dollars, 7 of such will be made i really dont think any more Frigates are on the line after 7 + 3 Shivaliks under construction.

Though nothing has been finalised we may as well go for a design fusion, lets see what our Naval Design Beaureau selects.

But i remember reading a JV for mine countermeasure Glass fibre vessel with korea.

only request for information has been sent and not request for proposals ,the request for information has been sent to 9 european and russian shipyards and to south korea(most probably hyundai for its kdx2 frigates).

aaaditya

March 23rd, 2007, 12:07 AM

hey guys,great news here,the first pollution control vessel for the indian coast guard has been launched and is expected to be commissioned in another 6 months ,followed by 2 more vessels at 6 months intervals.these vessels have 3300 ton displacement and are based on a rolls-royce design.

here check out this link and article:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=26235

Indian Coast Guard launched its first dedicated Pollution Control Vessel built by the ABG Shipyard at Surat today. The vessel is named as “Samudra Prahari” (Ocean Guard) and was launched by Mrs. Thrity R Contractor, wife of Vice Admiral RF Contractor, Director General, Indian Coast Guard.

The Pollution Control Vessel is 94 m long with a displacement of 3300 Tons and maximum draught of 4.5 meters. The vessel has a designed speed of 20.5 knots. The vessel has capability to recover and store 300 Tons of spilled oil from sea. In addition, it is capable of continuously recovering and transferring of spilled oil through floating barges. The vessel can also carry out other Coast Guard duties at sea. It can operate Chetak, ALH & SeaKing helicopters from her deck including stowage of Chetak helicopter. It is fitted with a state of art Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS) for centralized monitoring and control of machineries and other systems. This vessel is expected to be completed and delivered to the Coast Guard in next six months. Subsequently, two more vessels are likely to be completed and delivered thereafter within an interval of six months each.

The induction of the new vessel will further enhance the pollution control capabilities of Indian Coast Guard to a great extent.

contedicavour

March 23rd, 2007, 02:08 PM

Dont know the quality of journalist who wrote the article but i doubt it, Indian Navy has already flown a RFP to Europe for a possible Design of new generation Frigates with each costing around 800 mn dollars, 7 of such will be made i really dont think any more Frigates are on the line after 7 + 3 Shivaliks under construction.

Though nothing has been finalised we may as well go for a design fusion, lets see what our Naval Design Beaureau selects.

But i remember reading a JV for mine countermeasure Glass fibre vessel with korea.

No wonder India's navy is interested in mine counter measure vessels from Italy and Korea... the Korean ones are a close copy of the Italian Gaeta class (without authorization).
Given India's shipbuilders' recent successes (just think of the Delhi and Bangalore DDGs) I wonder why India should seek joint ventures with Korean shipyards ?! All that India still lacks is the local development of systems comparable to the improved Shtil SAM, but Korea uses US Standard SAMs.

cheers

tphuang

March 23rd, 2007, 04:31 PM

No wonder India's navy is interested in mine counter measure vessels from Italy and Korea... the Korean ones are a close copy of the Italian Gaeta class (without authorization).
Given India's shipbuilders' recent successes (just think of the Delhi and Bangalore DDGs) I wonder why India should seek joint ventures with Korean shipyards ?! All that India still lacks is the local development of systems comparable to the improved Shtil SAM, but Korea uses US Standard SAMs.

cheers

well, the Korean shipbuilding industry does have probably the best cost to quality ratio in the world. You can't really compare the workmanship of something coming out of a South Korean shipyard to something out of a Russian shipyard.

aaaditya

March 24th, 2007, 08:50 AM

hey guys,check out this interesting link and article,it gives some information regarding the development of the indian armed forces tri-services command and the fortress andaman and nicobar and an insight into its importance in the region.

here is the link and article:

http://www.indiaenews.com/india/20070323/44468.htm

India's southernmost military base that lies closer to the country's littoral states than the mainland, is gearing itself for an energy security role in the Indian Ocean, even as it hopes to further New Delhi's Look East policy.
Located in this capital of the Andaman and Nicobar chain, a cluster of 572 islands that extend in a 720-km long chain, some 1,200 km off the southern and eastern coasts, the military base guards an area that comprises just 0.2 percent of the country's land mass but is tasked with protecting a whopping 30 percent of its exclusive economic zone (EEZ).
Toward this end, the Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC) envisages a major ramping up of its assets by permanently deploying at some stage fighter aircraft, as also creating infrastructure to enable the docking of large naval vessels.
'This is the place where the action will be,' the ANC head, Air Marshal P.P. Raj Kumar, told reporters here, a day ahead of a visit by Defence Minister A.K. Antony to study first hand the strategic location of the base.
The ANC is also India's first tri-services command, which means it has under its wing assets from all three wings of the armed forces, as also the coast guard. Its chief is drawn by rotation from the army, the navy and the air force.
The ANC, which also includes an element from the coast guard, had played a stellar role in the wake of the devastating Dec 26, 2004 tsunami that ravaged the islands by providing succour to its inhabitants and also to countries like Indonesia, Sri Lanka and the Maldives that too were badly affected.
'The reason we were able to do this so effectively was because we are a tri-services command. Thus, there were no problems of coordination that usually arise on such occasions,' ANC deputy chief Rear Admiral P.V. Nair pointed out.
During his visit, Antony will witness first hand the interoperability the three services have achieved as they conduct a series of exercises, including amphibious landings by soldiers with ships and aircraft providing close support.
'There is the question of protecting the EEZ. There is also the question of guarding the approaches to the Malacca Straits (the world busiest water through which 70,000 vessels transit each year and which is prone to sea piracy and other criminal acts),' Kumar added.
'The ANC also has the unique responsibility, in consonance with India's Look East policy, of reaching out to the defence forces of India's maritime neighbours and building bridges of friendship,' he pointed out.
Speaking about the importance of the SEZ for India's energy security, Kumar said that with oil and gas having been discovered in the seabed on the Myanmarese side of the zone, 'it is only a matter of time before similar discoveries are made on our side.'
India's exploration major Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC) has, under the New Exploration Licensing Policy (NELP) 2005-07, already invited bids for two exploration blocks off the eastern coast of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and prospecting is expected to begin soon.
'There is also the question of transporting the oil and gas that will be found. Whether this is done by tankers or through a seabed pipeline, this route will have to be made secure,' Kumar pointed out.
To hone its skills in these areas, as also to counter sea piracy and terrorist activities, the ANC regularly conducts joint exercises with the navies of Indonesia, Thailand and Singapore, as also the larger Milan exercise, the 2006 edition of which saw the participation of 20 vessels from eight countries, including Australia.
The ANC began life in February 1964 as the naval base INS Jarawa, named after one of the tribes that inhabit the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. By the end of 1976, the base had expanded with the addition of another naval station and a coast guard station, and the induction of a 900-men army infantry battalion.
INS Jarawa was re-christened Fortress Andaman and Nicobar (FORTAN) in 1981 and this saw the addition of a third naval station, an increase in army strength to brigade (3,000 men) level and the addition of an air wing.
In 2000, a panel that studied the conduct of the Kargil War with Pakistan the previous year recommended that FORTAN be converted into a tri-services command to enable better coordination between the armed forces both in times of peace and during war.
ANC came into being in October 2001, its first head being Vice Admiral Arun Prakash, who eventually rose to be the Indian Navy chief.
'Ours is a unique feature of the armed forces,' Nair said of the experience of the past six years, adding 'what we have done here can be replicated across the spectrum of the defence forces.'

aaaditya

March 24th, 2007, 08:54 AM

hey guys,great news here ,bharat heavy electricals limited (BHEL) ,india's largest power and transmission equipment manufacturer is to enter into the defence technology field and is to manufacture all types of guns mortars and under water weapons technology.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.businessstandard.com/common/storypage_c.php?leftnm=10&bKeyFlag=BO&autono=278721&chkFlg=

India’s largest power and transmission equipment manufacturer, state-owned Bharat Heavy Electricals (BHEL), is planning to produce defence equipment, including weapons. It is likely to manufacture all types of guns, including field guns, air defence guns, and mortars for the Indian defence sector and para-military forces. The listed company has also firmed up plans to produce underwater weapon systems, weapon control solutions and its components. Sources said the company had already applied for a licence to produce defence products. BHEL executives confirmed the development but declined to divulge details. At present, Ordnance Factory Board is the only public sector undertaking that manufactures arms and ammunition. In the defence space, BHEL will have to compete with leading private players such as Larsen & Toubro (L&T), Tata Power, Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M), Godrej Industries, Kirloskar Brothers, Ashok Leyland, Jindal, Max Aerospace & Aviation and Ramoss India. According to industry analysts, defence production is turning lucrative as the defence sector is augmenting its weapon infrastructure. “Moreover, the companies which have secured a licence will benefit from the offset policy announced by the Ministry of Defence. According to the offset policy, overseas players bagging Indian defence contracts will have to source 30 per cent of the defence requirements through Indian companies,” they added. “BHEL has plans to enter defence avionics by manufacturing all types of components for unmanned air vehicles, aerostats, and unmanned aerial combat vehicles. The company will also make necessary air-borne assemblies and related systems,” a source said. The public sector company is also looking at a range of other defence items such as rocket launchers, defence electronics, torpedoes and components of armoured and combat vehicles. The investment for the proposed defence foray was not disclosed. “Defence is one of the sectors the company is seriously looking at. BHEL will be manufacturing defence products within its existing facilities,” sources said.

XEROX

March 28th, 2007, 08:01 PM

well, the Korean shipbuilding industry does have probably the best cost to quality ratio in the world. You can't really compare the workmanship of something coming out of a South Korean shipyard to something out of a Russian shipyard.

Has the Indian navy issued requests to South Korean ship yards for its next generation friggate procurment program??

tphuang

March 28th, 2007, 11:56 PM

Has the Indian navy issued requests to South Korean ship yards for its next generation friggate procurment program??

I believe South Korea is one of the countries.

aaaditya

March 29th, 2007, 07:21 AM

hey guys,interesting news here ,it seems that russia has offered india the sale of its project 22350 gorshkov class of frigates.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.kommersant.com/p754284/India_shipbuilding/

India May Buy Russian Frigate

Russia has offered India the export version of its new Project 22 350 frigate as part of a tender for the construction of seven ships. Only one ship of that project has been laid so far. That one was begun in February 2006 at the Northern Wharf. According to the Indian press, proposals to participate in the tender were sent to European, American and Russian wharves at the end of last year.

The Indian program is worth $6.6 billion and foresees the construction of one ship in a foreign wharf and six ships in India under license. Between 1998 and 2003, Russia built three 1135.6 frigates for India. The Indians have begun the construction of three of their own Project 17 frigates at the Mazagon wharves. Those ships were designed in conjunction with the Russian Northern Design and Construction Bureau and the Canadian CAE based on the Project 1135.6. Up to 12 more of improved Project 17A model may be built as well.

also check out this link ,it contains some information about this frigate,along with its specifications and a line diagramme:

http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2544&catid=270

contedicavour

March 29th, 2007, 08:35 AM

Smart move on the Russians' side. They are trying to keep control over the Indian surface warship naval market which is starting to open up with tenders open to Western and Asian defence firms.
The 22350 though is still so vague in terms of final armament and sensor suite that there are chances that the Indian Navy will be able to customize it to a very high degree.

cheers

XEROX

March 30th, 2007, 02:14 PM

Smart move on the Russians' side.

And as usual, a dumb move by India, having all its eggs in one basket is risky buisness.

Superczar

March 30th, 2007, 05:47 PM

Dont be so sure Indias NDB will go for Russian design, for all we know This is Indias quest to access the level of building technology that India dont have to make the next ones much like Krivak-Shivaliks.

I'm putting my money on European Design, and as conect put it, heavily customised.

Also India Navy is interested in a satellite Grid exclusively for Navy (I have read it somewhere) and they said in preliminary reports these ships will have some sort of direct connectivity or whatever?

aaaditya

March 31st, 2007, 12:32 AM

aaaditya

March 31st, 2007, 06:59 PM

hey guys,check out this link ,it gives some more information on the russian designed project 22350 sergei admiral gorshkov class of frigate on offer by russia to india.

here is the link and the article:

http://www.domain-b.com/aero/20070331_offers.htm

Russia has offered India the export version of its new Project 22350 frigate as part of a tender for the construction of seven ships. The Russian offer is in response to a Request for Information (RFI), issued by India to about a dozen European, Russian and American shipyards in December last year.
The RFI is the first formal step in the process of military acquisition.

According to Indian defence industry sources, the proposed acquisition of these seven ships may well be worth more than Rs30,000 crore. At the time the RFI was issued, the then newly anointed chief of the Indian naval staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta had said that the proposed acquisition was meant to offset the delay in the acquisition of modern equipment by the Indian Navy that had occurred over the past two decades.
This delay, Mehta said, were due to constraints on defence budgets and other factors, as also the inability of Indian shipyards to deliver ships on time.
The RFI is for a set of seven stealth frigates, each costing about Rs4,000 crore. According to reports, the plan envisages the first ship to be built at the foreign shipyard, with the remaining units being built at Mazagon Docks Ltd in Mumbai or at the Garden Reach Shipyard in Kolkata.
The project, designated P-17A, is envisaged as the next generation of ships that will be an upgrade over the ongoing Project 17 Shivalik class multi-role stealth frigates. Currently construction work on three of these Project 17 frigates is on at the Mazagon wharves.
As for the Project 22350, this is an "escort ship intended for the distant maritime and ocean zones," according to the authoritative Russian publication Military Parade. One ship of this project is already under construction, the Admiral Sergei Gorshkov, the keel for which was laid down at the Saint Petersburg-based Severnaya Verf shipyard in February 2006.
As per details provided by Military Parade these ships will have a displacement of about 4,500 tonnes, a length of over 130 meters, a maximum width of 16 meters, a range of over 4,000 miles, and "an unlimited sea-going ability." It is not clear what this last comment by Military Parade is intended to mean.
The frigate will be armed with eight Oniks anti-ship missiles, the A-192 130mm gun mount, the Medvedka-2 antisubmarine missile system, the Uragan medium-range air-defence missile system, and a hangar-parked helicopter.
The Admiral Sergei Gorshkov is scheduled for launch in 2009. According to the commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Vladimir Masorin, Russia's Navy intends to procure up to 20 such ships.
According to Military Parade construction costs of the ship are pegged at over $300 million.
The significance of the project for the Russians lies in the fact that the new project 22350 frigate, Admiral Sergei Gorshkov, is the first ship that has been designed and built for the Russian Navy after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Russian Navy has had no surface ships built for it over the last 15 years.
According to Russian reports the project is likely to utilize "engineering solutions" used to build the 1135.6 frigates (Talwar class) frigates for the Indian Navy. If so, it would be another instance of Indian money, and defence orders, reviving projects for the Russian defence industry.
Between 1998 and 2003, Russia built three 1135.6 frigates for India, namely the INS Talwar, Trishul and Tabar, all of which have been inducted into service. The Indians have placed follow on orders for three more of these frigates, which have gone to a shipyard different from the one that built the original three.
As with the Indian Air Force, the Indian Navy also got a foreign partner involved with the design and solutions aspect of the INS Talwar class frigates through the Canadian firm CAE.

ahussains

April 1st, 2007, 02:41 AM

And as usual, a dumb move by India, having all its eggs in one basket is risky buisness.

Its Difficult for the Indians to go in any Way ,, With Russians or Against Them:)

aaaditya

April 1st, 2007, 09:08 AM

acquiring western weapons is not a problem for indian navy since it operates a number of western vessels such as the leander class of figates which are british built.

aaaditya

April 10th, 2007, 12:58 AM

hey guys,great news here ,india's second largest private shipyard the bharti shipyard has bought the 130 year old british shipyard swan hunter ,this will give the bharti shipyards capability to manufacture ships of upto 60000 dwt's it will aquire all of swan hunter's equipment and a 20000 ton floating dry dock.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.business-standard.com/compindustry/storypage.php?tab=r&autono=280577&subLeft=1&leftnm=1

Bharati Shipyard, the country’s second-largest private sector ship-builder, is understood to have acquired the UK-based Swan Hunter Shipyard for an undisclosed amount. “The entire machinery and equipment from Swan Hunter will be dismantled and brought to India over six months to be re-built at Bharati’s shipyards,” sources said. The sources said the acquisition might be one of the biggest deals till date in the domestic shipbuilding industry. A comparable new shipyard would have cost Rs 200-250 crore. A spokesperson for Bharati Shipyard declined to comment, saying, “As a company policy we do not react on market speculation.” This acquisition assumes significance given the fact that all international shipyards are overbooked till 2009-end as the general economic upswing has resulted in a demand for new ships. Moreover, the International Maritime Organisation has brought in a number of regulations leading to scrapping of old vessels. This has also fuelled demand. “There is also an acute shortage of rigs with only nine manufacturers in the world. Bharati Shipyard recently forayed into offshore rig construction. This acquisition will also bolster its new line of products including offshore structures,” industry analysts said. Swan Hunter, a 130-year-old shipyard, is engaged in shipbuilding, ship conversion and construction of offshore structures. It has built over 1,600 ships of various types, including more than 400 naval vessels, which includes two aircraft carriers. Swan Hunter has the capacity to build vessels of up to 1,00,000 dead weight tonne (DWT). Bharati is developing a greenfield shipyard in Mangalore and ramping up facilities at the Ratnagiri yard. According to shipping experts, “The acquisition is extremely beneficial to Bharati as it can scale up operations quickly. Also it can execute more orders and make substantial savings in time and resources as it would have taken more than two years to build a similar infrastructure indigenously.” Through this acquisition, BSL is expected to have fully automated panel line, quayside travelling gantry cranes of up to 180 tonne capacity, 30 overhead travelling cranes of up to 60 tonne capacity, plate rolls, bending presses, robotic profiling machines, and digitally fed plasma burning equipment. This will enable Bharati to build ships and vessels with the capacity of up to 60,000 DWT. Bharati will also acquire the 20,000-ton lift capacity floating dock of Swan Hunter, which will add a lot of value to its existing operation. The company had earlier bagged a contract from Reliance Industries for constructing six vessels worth Rs 120 crore.

aaaditya

April 10th, 2007, 01:04 AM

hey guys,great news here ,indian coast guard has commissioned an indigenously designed advanced offshore patrol vessel named sagar,this vessel will have patrolling,fire fighting,limited pollution control and search and rescue capability ,it will have a range of 6000 nautical miles ,a top speed of 21 kts and a cruise speed of 14 kts,it is equipped with the powerfull italian oto-melara super rapid stealth gun .this gun is to be the standard weapon for all indian coast guard large and medium sized vessels and has anti-shipping and anti-aircraft capability.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/10/stories/2007041006240400.htm

CHENNAI: The Coast Guard region (East) on Monday got a boost to its surveillance capability with the rebasing of the ship Sagar from Western to Eastern seaboard.
Chief Secretary L.K. Tripathy, Additional Director-General of Police, Coastal Security Group, Jagan M.Seshadri, and Inspector-General Rajendra Singh, Commander, Coast Guard region East, were present on the occasion. Designed and built by the Goa Shipyard Ltd, the latest advanced offshore patrol vessel (AOPV) was commissioned on November 3, 2003.
Mr. Singh said the ship would go a long way in enhancing coastal security. The 102.45-metre long vessel is propelled by 6400 HP twin diesel engines and can attain a maximum speed of 21 knots. At economic speed of 14 knots, it has an endurance of 6000 nautical miles and could stay in the sea for 20 days without replenishment.
After commissioning, the ship participated in various operations and exercises in India and abroad. It was the flagship for the recently concluded Coast Guard Fleet Review-2007 by the Defence Minister in Goa in February.
The vessel, commanded by Deputy Inspector-General S.C. Tyagi, is equipped with state-of-the-art gadgets and machinery.
Special features

Special features include an external fire-fighting system for rendering assistance to ships at sea, pollution response equipment and an integrated navigation system which interfaces all navigational sensors to a central computer.
The OTO Mellara Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM) has an anti-shipping and anti-air capability. The ship has been designed to operate Chetak helicopters as well as the indigenous Advanced Light Helicopters. It has 118 personnel, including 12 officers on board.

swerve

April 10th, 2007, 04:39 AM

tatra

April 10th, 2007, 06:22 PM

Here's a cg for the 22350. Very similar to an older 1980s (?) 12000 ton design.

kams

April 10th, 2007, 11:19 PM

rickusn

April 11th, 2007, 12:24 AM

KAMs can you fill me in a bit more on this Integrity Pact issue or direct me to any sources that discuss it?

Thanks Rick

tatra

April 11th, 2007, 04:18 PM

Russia can not bid for any tender by any branch of Indian military, if the tender is more than Rs 300 crore (Approx US$ 70 million). Reason - Russia is yet to sign the integrity pact with India as mandated by DPCA 2006. As per the rules, only Follow on orders can be placed with Russia, such as 40 additional Su-30 MKI, 80 Mi-17s, 300 T-90 etc.

Russia can offer their products, but no RFP can be sent to them.
Just hypthetically, would it be possible to place a de facto order for an entire ship, while on paper buying just sets of components wirth less than Rs 300 crore (i.e. is there a way around this?)

kams

April 11th, 2007, 08:02 PM

KAMs can you fill me in a bit more on this Integrity Pact issue or direct me to any sources that discuss it?

Thanks Rick

Ricksun,

Backgrounder-

India's Ministry of defence published a Defence procurement manual in 2006, in an effort to address many issues plaguing India's defence procurement. This manual for the first time made it mandatory for the Bidder to sign a pre-contract integrity pact with GOI for all contracts worth over 100 crore/US$ 25 million (I was mistaken on US $ 70 million limit, thats for 30% offset clause). Basically bidder promises not to pay any bribes. commission to any GOI official and or any agent/middleman. There can be no middleman either.
You can read complete detail here (http://mod.nic.in/dpm/welcome.html) (PDF document, read page no 205 onwards)

Now Russians have refused to sign this so far.

India's weapons purchases have hit a major roadblock with its biggest defence supplier, Russia, refusing to sign the mandatory integrity pact for defence contracts.

Under the present defence procurement procedures, every defence contract worth more than Rs 100 crore must be accompanied by an integrity pact, an undertaking that no arms agents are involved and no commissions have been paid.

Authoritative sources in the Ministry of Defence told DNA that intense negotiations are underway between the Ministry of Defence and Russian representatives to ensure that the latter’s stand do not “delay” India’s defence modernisation and massive procurement programmes.

he Russians have told the MOD that some clauses of the integrity pact “collide with” the domestic laws of the country. However, sources are refusing to confirm if the Russian reservations has got to do with the pact demanding an explicit commitment against payment of commissions and appointment of agents.

Link (http://www.*************.com/reports/2997)

Just hypthetically, would it be possible to place a de facto order for an entire ship, while on paper buying just sets of components wirth less than Rs 300 crore (i.e. is there a way around this?)

Tatra,

I don't think thats possible. This order itself is worth over $5 billion, many more contracts on the way. GOI and Russia have to resolve the issue.

aaaditya

April 12th, 2007, 12:29 AM

hey guys,gret news here ,indian navy is to set up a permanent naval airbase at rameshwaram and also is to set up 9 sea surveillance radars.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070412/main9.htm

Rameswaram, April 11
India will soon have a full-fledged naval air base at Uchipulli, 40 km from here, to increase air surveillance and make her presence more felt in the entire Indian Ocean, Cmdre P. E. Vanhaltren said here today.
The Indian Navy today conducted an exercise at the Indian Maritime Boundary Line (IMBL) and exhibited its firepower in high sea to combat smuggling of explosives from Tamil Nadu to Sri Lanka. The Indian Navy marine commandos also carried out surprise checks on fishing boats in the area.
Vanhaltren, Naval Officer-in-Charge, Tamil Nadu, said that the proposal to have a naval air station, 640 km from Chennai, had been sent to the Central Government and it would be approved in the near future.
“At present, we are just operating in a small sector in the Palk Bay only. A naval air station will enable us to make our presence more felt and we can cover the entire Indian Ocean,” he said.
He said that the Indian Navy would have nine radars at all seven detachments it had on the coastline in Tamil Nadu.
He said, “It will help us to monitor all vessels in the sea. We have three war ships now, one belonging to the Coast Guard and two to the Indian Navy. All these warships patrol the Palk Bay and the Gulf of Mannar, which divides India from Sri Lanka.”
Vanhaltren said that the Indian Navy had to ensure that there was no intrusion into the IMBL and it was a “big task”.
He said, “Increased naval air surveillance will help us to prevent nefarious activities in the sea.”
Regarding joint patrolling with the Sri Lankan Navy, Vanhaltren said, “It is a political decision but the Indian Navy is fully prepared to undertake such a mission.” However, he said that the Indian Navy was not keen to have joint patrolling with the Sri Lankan Navy.
“It will mean we will be drawn directly into their conflict with the LTTE. It had happened in the past with the IPKF being there and we need not repeat it,” he asserted.
Asked about the recent killing of Indian fishermen in the high sea which had generated a controversy with Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi shooting off a letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, he replied that it might be rivalry between groups of fishermen.
“One theory is that the LTTE was doing it and putting the blame on the Sri Lankan Navy after it suffered losses following attacks by the Sri Lankan defence forces,” he explained. He admitted that smuggling from Tamil Nadu to Sri Lanka was going on.

and also this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/12/stories/2007041200991300.htm

rickusn

April 13th, 2007, 12:18 AM

Kams thanks for the clarification, info and link.

They are all much appreciated.

Rick

Phuntsho

April 22nd, 2007, 12:02 AM

US eyes naval ties with India
Rajat Pandit
[19 Apr, 2007 0038hrs IST TIMES NEWS NETWORK]

NEW DELHI: With India still wary of openly joining the controversial Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI), which seeks to aggressively "interdict" suspicious ships on the high seas, US now wants India to hop onto its "Thousand-Ship Navy" (TSN) bandwagon.

Visiting US chief of naval operations Admiral Michael G Mullen discussed the still-evolving TSN concept - which basically involves navies of like-minded countries coming together to enhance security on the high seas - with Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta and others over the last two days.

"There was a very positive response on TSN from Indian Navy, which in fact wanted to figure out a way to implement it faster," said Admiral Mullen on Wednesday. The Indian Navy, which has practised maritime interdiction and counter-terrorism manoeuvres with US Navy over the last five years, is certainly "warm" to the TSN idea. But it will require "political clearance," said a top Indian Navy officer.

"As opposed to PSI, TSN is more of a cooperative arrangement against non-state actors like terrorists or for benign operations like tsunami relief. It's workable since it will just require the different navies to be networked on one common information grid. But we are not saying 'yes' or 'no' at present," he added.

On a purely bilateral front, India and US are already finalising a Maritime Cooperation Framework (MCF) to enhance maritime security, prevent piracy and other transactional crimes at sea, and address emergent threats.

"Admiral Mullen's visit provided apex-level guidance in the actualisation of MCF," the officer said. The US is also keen to get more "access and berthing" at Indian naval bases.

After the suicide bombing attack on its destroyer USS Cole at Aden in 2000 and the horrific 9/11 terror strikes in 2001, the US has been promoting steps like the PSI and Container Security Initiative the world over. Despite having the world's most powerful Navy, with over a dozen aircraft carrier battle groups deployed around the globe, the US clearly recognises that it alone cannot ensure maritime security.

But initiatives like PSI have not found favour with several countries because it intends to waylay ships carrying WMDs or illicit weapons of not only terrorist groups but also "countries of proliferation concern" (read Iran and North Korea for the US), well outside the ambit of the UN charter.

Admiral Mullen, on his part, took pains to dispel notions that the TSN concept was PSI through the backdoor. "It has some PSI similarities but it is not PSI," he said.

"TSN is just a brand name. It can involve 500, 1,000 or even 10,000 ships, with different navies and coast guards forming a voluntary global partnership to tackle maritime challenges like WMDs, gun-running, piracy, illegal emigration and slavery. We have to work together against threats like terrorism," he added.

bd popeye

April 28th, 2007, 02:53 PM

Russian dely by two years INS

Those Russians are running into problems re-fitting the Vikramaditya IN fans. If I were the IN I would be upset!

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070424/48/6eylt.html

Concern in Delhi as Moscow delays aircraft carrier delivery, cost spirals
By IE
Wednesday April 25, 02:02 AM
Admiral Gorshkov or the rechristened Vikramaditya aircraft carrier was slated to be a showpiece Independence Day 2008 gift from Russia. But the arrival of the floating airfield stands delayed to at least 2010 with Russian shipbuilders underestimating the length of cabling in the warship.

Much to the concern of New Delhi - India's sole aircraft carrier INS Viraat does not have many years left with only 12 Sea Harrier jumpjets on deck - the Gorshkov project is now going into cost over-run of over $113 million, provisions of which have not been made in the Indo-Russian contract.

The warship, refurbished at the cost of $1 billion, which includes 16 MiG 29K aircraft, is being built at the Sevmash shipyard in Serverodvinsk City, once home to Russia's Northern Fleet.

Earlier, Russian shipbuilders had estimated 700 km of cabling in the ship but that's been revised to a total of 2,400 km for the carrier to be operational with the Indian Navy for the next two decades. According to official sources, even the sky-jump on the deck of Gorshkov is not completed and work is going at a slow pace.

A team headed by Vice Admiral B S Randhawa, Controller of Warship Production, and Joint Secretary (Maritime Acquisition) is going to Moscow next month to impress upon the Russians to speed up the Gorshkov repairs. On May 15, Randhawa will also inspect Gorshkov at the shipyard in northern Russia.

Adding to concerns here is Moscow's decision to look the other way as Pakistan received Chinese JF-17 fighters last month. These aircraft are powered by Russian RD-93 engines. Pakistan will now get 15 more fighters next year and another 200 by 2015.

aaaditya

May 1st, 2007, 09:51 PM

hey guys,interesting news here,indian navy will acquire a second indigenous aircraft carier after the first one is builty at kochi,the second aircraft carrier will also be built at kochi,besides the 34 vessels currently under production ,indian navy will acquire a further 40 warships and submarines.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/02/stories/2007050203181400.htm

Mumbai: They dress like terrorists, wear long beards, move about like militants and even tote AK-47 assault rifles. The Marine Commandos of the Indian Navy, whom the sailors call `Marcos', follow in letter and spirit the adage of the counter-insurgency doctrine: fight an insurgent like an insurgent.
The `Marcos' stole the show at the special naval investiture here on Tuesday when Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Sureesh Mehta pinned Nao Sena Medal (Gallantry) on the chests of three of them for outsmarting foreign terrorists in movement and action, being barely seconds ahead of them. The trio had ambushed several foreign militants.
The Marcos, officially called the Indian Marine Special Force, were raised in the 1980s out of naval divers to lead amphibious operations and clear beaches for the main body of troops. Being divers they could reach hostile shores swimming underwater. They could sabotage enemy vessels and harbour installations. These diving commandos were deployed in Kashmir for militants were using water bodies such as lakes, rivers and ravines to take cover. Soon they became famous as ``dareewali fauj [bearded force]'' among the militants.
``If civilians see us they would surely mistake us for militants for we look like them but militants would know who we are. If they spot us from a distance, they fire but if spotted nearby they try to run away and that is the time we go for a kill,'' Petty Officer Ram Mehar told The Hindu .
With the support of his buddy, Ram Mehar had `eliminated' two operatives of Harkat-ul-Mujahideen. He was a few seconds ahead of the Pakistani irregulars.
The Marine Commandos usually operate with a small team to launch a covert operation. The petty officer was one of just nine Marcos who had laid multiple ambushes over a distance of two km.
``We do not leave behind the dead militants but carry the bodies to the nearest police station,'' he said.
Other Marcos who were honoured were sailors Anoop Singh and Amarjeet. Admiral Mehta also conferred Nao Sena Medal (Gallantry) on diver Ajay Kumar and Petty Officer Ravinder Kumar for recovering explosive-laden containers from the cold waters off Mumbai in zero visibility to save the environment.
Captain Rama Kant Pattanaik, commanding officer of destroyer INS Mumbai got Yudh Seva Medal for what his citation called, ``implementing flawless combat readiness procedure and simultaneously introducing a unique organisation for safe evacuation of stranded Indian nationals in the war zone of Beirut.''
`Not bigger but smarter'

Thirtyfour warships, including new submarines, are under construction in different Indian shipyards and the Navy is
planning to order 40 more vessels.
"We are not going to be much bigger but a little smarter,'' Admiral Mehta said.
Talking to reporters here on Tuesday after the naval investiture ceremony, he said the modern Navy was not measured by the number of ships but its capability.
Admiral Mehta said the ship-building programme was the result of a 15-year long-term integrated plan. All major shipyards such as Mazagon, Kolkata and Goa had their hands full with orders and Kochi would take up the second aircraft carrier after it finished the first.
He said the Navy was facing asymmetric threats. Protecting national assets such as offshore oil installations was particularly challenging. "These assets are fully protected now but we have to build forces to respond to threats from small boats."

aaaditya

May 1st, 2007, 09:54 PM

Russian dely by two years INS

Those Russians are running into problems re-fitting the Vikramaditya IN fans. If I were the IN I would be upset!

well according to the indian navy the admiral gorshkov has been delayed by 4 months and not till 2010.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=469504

Navy denies reports of delay in delivery of Admiral Gorshkov

MUMBAI, MAY 1 (PTI)
The Indian Navy today denied reports that the delivery of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov would be delayed till 2010 and said the refurbishing of the ship was moving as per schedule.
"The work is going on as per schedule and I do not know where this particular report came from. The work is only three to four months behind schedule and we can expect the aircraft carrier to be delivered by late 2008 or early 2009," Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta told reporters here.
He was commenting on reports in a section of media recently which said that the delivery of Admiral Gorshkov or the rechristened `Vikramaditya' aircraft carrier would be delayed to 2010.
The aircraft carrier is currently being refurbished at a cost of USD one billion, which includes 16 MiG 29K aircraft, is being built at the Sevmash shipyard in Serverodvinsk City of Russia.
Mehta said that the Russians have committed for a timely delivery of the ambitious aircraft carrier to the Indian Defence Minister.
"Our officials, who are stationed at the spot have said that the work is going on as per schedule and we can have a month long delay once the work is completed as that part of Russia is frozen for a long time," he said. Mehta was in the city to preside over the investiture ceremony of naval officers and men held at INS Kunjali today.

contedicavour

May 2nd, 2007, 06:55 AM

Well, IMHO it was crazy to rely on firm delivery dates when we're talking about Russian shipyards (relatively limited experience when talking about carriers) repairing a '70s vintage hybrid attack cruiser / STOVL carrier for Yak-38. The ship suffered major fires and breakdowns and remained rusting alongside port for almost 10 years. The Russians are now completely overhauling it and even partially redesigning it. I suspect India got a good price because the Russians wanted to keep their shipyards busy, even if it meant losing money out of this complex order for India. However India is very likely to suffer major problems (deadlines first of all) with this refurbished ship.

Given today's good relations with the US, India could probably have done a much better deal buying the USN CV Kennedy with a complement of F18s rather than the Gorshkov...

cheers

aaaditya

May 5th, 2007, 09:52 PM

hey guys,check out this interesting link and article,they contain some information on the indigenously developed sangraha electronic warfare system of the indian navy.

here is the link and the article:

http://frontierindia.net/sangraha-for-indian-navy/

SANGRAHA Electronic Warfare (EW) system jointly developed by Indian navy and Defence Electronics Research Laboratory (DLRL) is being implemeted in Indian naval assets.
15 KITE Electronic Support Measures (ESM) system have been inducted in service on Kamov and Chetak Helicopters. Additional 47 KITE systems are in order and in various levels of production and integration. EAGLE ESM systems have been installed on Dornier aircraft and 8 more systems have been ordered. First 5 HOMI systems built by Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) have been installed on TU-142 aircraft and additional orders are being processed. 2 PORPOISE ESM systems have been installed in EKM Submarines and additional 11 systems have been ordered. ELLORA system built by BEL has been installed on INS Beas. Three more ships of INS Beas class and three ships of P-17 class will be equipped with ELLORA.

ahussains

May 8th, 2007, 04:17 PM

I think that the GORSHKOV will joins the indian navy by the 2011, it needs overall structural and Technical changes with some life time expansion too , so it needs time ... too :cool:

contedicavour

May 9th, 2007, 05:51 AM

I think that the GORSHKOV will joins the indian navy by the 2011, it needs overall structural and Technical changes with some life time expansion too , so it needs time ... too :cool:

Yes it makes sense. However how many years of useful service will the modernized Gorshkov have ? For a ship built in the early 80s and that has suffered structural damage from fires and dereliction, even with the current rebuilding, I wouldn't expect it to last beyond 2020 before ending up tied up in constant maintenance and repair. Heck, even the ex RN Hermes is unlikely to operate more than 50 years.
So I remain sceptical about the value of the whole programme, unless it is clearly labelled as a stopgap before India has 2 oeprational indigenous aircraft carriers.

cheers

aaaditya

May 9th, 2007, 10:59 PM

Yes it makes sense. However how many years of useful service will the modernized Gorshkov have ? For a ship built in the early 80s and that has suffered structural damage from fires and dereliction, even with the current rebuilding, I wouldn't expect it to last beyond 2020 before ending up tied up in constant maintenance and repair. Heck, even the ex RN Hermes is unlikely to operate more than 50 years.
So I remain sceptical about the value of the whole programme, unless it is clearly labelled as a stopgap before India has 2 oeprational indigenous aircraft carriers.

cheers

indians have used the vikrant for nearly 25 years and they were second hand vessels designed during the world war.

harryriedl

May 10th, 2007, 05:11 PM

tatra

May 10th, 2007, 05:29 PM

#

usn Kennedy you must be joking:confused: Kennedy when it was checked by the marines it required 2billion to SLEP it and refurbish to the fleet. Kennedy wasn't SLEPed and was very heavily used in the cold war. also the F18A/B/C/D were would you find them the USN and the USMC are surching for airframes and some squadrons are going into reserve status.

Well, the Gorsh is setting the Indians back 2 bliion also....

kams

May 10th, 2007, 06:06 PM

Well, the Gorsh is setting the Indians back 2 bliion also....
With the Air wing (Mig029K, KA-31), not the boat alone.

I do agree that Gorshkov acquisition is not all that great idea. But there may be some Russian arm twisting involved too, remember how the special steel from Russia for IAC was delayed?

aaaditya

May 10th, 2007, 11:04 PM

contedicavour

May 12th, 2007, 08:41 AM

when india chose gorshkov,there were only two options available,they were the gorshkov and the british invincible class,the relations with us governement was not matey enough for them to offer one of their carriers,the invincible was rejected because of its smaller size.

I also agree that back then the Gorshkov was the only good alternative available, though for me it is only a stopgap until enough indigenous aircraft carriers are available.
If relations with the US had been better back then though, a Kennedy or even a Independence class carrier would have been better in price/quality terms.
Regarding the comparison with the Hermes/Vikrant, yes it was already an old second hand ship, but it didn't require any major modifications since it continued to operate the same Harriers and Sea Kings. the Gorskhov is been tranformed from a STOVL carrier for Yak-38 to a CTOL with Fulcrums, the electronics and a lot of the superstructure are been changed, and the ship was in a sorry state...

cheers

ahussains

May 12th, 2007, 11:08 AM

I also agree that back then the Gorshkov was the only good alternative available, though for me it is only a stopgap until enough indigenous aircraft carriers are available.
If relations with the US had been better back then though, a Kennedy or even a Independence class carrier would have been better in price/quality terms.
Regarding the comparison with the Hermes/Vikrant, yes it was already an old second hand ship, but it didn't require any major modifications since it continued to operate the same Harriers and Sea Kings. the Gorskhov is been tranformed from a STOVL carrier for Yak-38 to a CTOL with Fulcrums, the electronics and a lot of the superstructure are been changed, and the ship was in a sorry state...

cheers

Dont u think buddy india is paying too much price for the Groshokov what i read is that 700M US for the Ship 800M US for Mig 29 which is 1.5 BN Dollars in total .. of such a ship which already suffers fire, accidents and some around 30 years old, The max life is 40 years of the Big Hulls, While Russia is in a bad shape in the 90's so they can not maintain it, Up to me its life is over.. What they are trying now some basic changes for the MIG29 and its Electronic systems and major overhaulling of the infrastructure may incress the life of the ship around 5 to 7 years max.. and the cost of the project is also incressed. (This is Just my thinking) if this is ship spend its 6 Months in the sea and 4 to 6 months in the docks for the repair and maintanence then the active life is only for the 3 years or soo ??

kams

May 12th, 2007, 11:53 AM

Dont u think buddy india is paying too much price for the Groshokov what i read is that 700M US for the Ship 800M US for Mig 29 which is 1.5 BN Dollars in total .. of such a ship which already suffers fire, accidents and some around 30 years old, The max life is 40 years of the Big Hulls, While Russia is in a bad shape in the 90's so they can not maintain it, Up to me its life is over.. What they are trying now some basic changes for the MIG29 and its Electronic systems and major overhaulling of the infrastructure may incress the life of the ship around 5 to 7 years max.. and the cost of the project is also incressed. (This is Just my thinking) if this is ship spend its 6 Months in the sea and 4 to 6 months in the docks for the repair and maintanence then the active life is only for the 3 years or soo ??

Wow, thats one big sentence.

HMS Hermes is fighting since 1953:) . It's expected to remain in service at least till 2012. Calculate the hull life yourself.

As to the price - $700 Million for hull refit and approximately $740 million for 16 Mig-29K and 8 Ka-28, Ka-31 combo. Deal also includes option for 30 more Mig-29K/Kub. Is this price too high? Don't think so. Could we have used this money on Indigenous Aircraft carrier? Sure, thats what we should have done. But we don't know what else is tied to the deal, do we? Who knows how many 'Sharks' will be swimming around the 'Vikramaditya' and how many 'Bats' are flying overhead:D .

By 2020 we will have minimum of 2 IAC and hopefully third one under construction. Vikramaditya in the mean time will provide STOBAR experience to IN Aviators.

As to remaining service life of Vikramaditya, and reliability, your guess is as good as mine. But even worst case estimation would put it much higher than 3-6 months availability/month:onfloorl: .

harryriedl

May 12th, 2007, 03:07 PM

Dont u think buddy india is paying too much price for the Groshokov what i read is that 700M US for the Ship 800M US for Mig 29 which is 1.5 BN Dollars in total .. of such a ship which already suffers fire, accidents and some around 30 years old, The max life is 40 years of the Big Hulls, While Russia is in a bad shape in the 90's so they can not maintain it, Up to me its life is over.. What they are trying now some basic changes for the MIG29 and its Electronic systems and major overhaulling of the infrastructure may incress the life of the ship around 5 to 7 years max.. and the cost of the project is also incressed. (This is Just my thinking) if this is ship spend its 6 Months in the sea and 4 to 6 months in the docks for the repair and maintanence then the active life is only for the 3 years or soo ??

i argree with that statement as Groshokov would have had a shorter life even if it was looked after immaculatly, it would still have a shorter life but Groshokov[those artic winters take allot out of ships].
It has had a hard life and the upgrade is highly complex on a ship that has seen much better days. The lack of deck space is also a concecen as it ,the lack of expriances of the russian company refit Groshokov, Also the age of other sytems [fire fighting, pumps, c3i, radios] all make me worried at the possiblitly of an other fire and its readyness rates.
HMS Hermes is a diffrent case it was a much more mature desine. see the space on both sides of the island for parking of helos and harriers which eases the job of daily carrier life and speeds up rearming and refuling as their is more space for plans and helos on deck. also the hanger is of comparble size deispite being half the size as it was a carrier 1st and formost not a hybrid with lots of missiles in its orginal spec with a small hanger.

pheww thats alot typing

contedicavour

May 16th, 2007, 09:27 AM

i argree with that statement as Groshokov would have had a shorter life even if it was looked after immaculatly, it would still have a shorter life but Groshokov[those artic winters take allot out of ships].
It has had a hard life and the upgrade is highly complex on a ship that has seen much better days. The lack of deck space is also a concecen as it ,the lack of expriances of the russian company refit Groshokov, Also the age of other sytems [fire fighting, pumps, c3i, radios] all make me worried at the possiblitly of an other fire and its readyness rates.
HMS Hermes is a diffrent case it was a much more mature desine. see the space on both sides of the island for parking of helos and harriers which eases the job of daily carrier life and speeds up rearming and refuling as their is more space for plans and helos on deck. also the hanger is of comparble size deispite being half the size as it was a carrier 1st and formost not a hybrid with lots of missiles in its orginal spec with a small hanger.

pheww thats alot typing

I fully agree with your assessment. Hermes/Vikrant was never really modified (leaving aside the updates to electronics and Barak VLS) since it continued operating with the same role and aircrafts for its long service life. Besides, its 54 years are a real problem : the ship has spent innumerable time under maintenance.
Gorshkov is in much worse condition now that Hermes was when it was 30 years old, and it is being heavily modified to fly different aircrafts and execute a much different mission (Gorshkov was a heavy cruiser designed to launch Sandbox SS-N-12 cruise missiles against USN carriers and the Yak-38s were only in self defence role).

cheers

aaaditya

May 18th, 2007, 09:51 PM

hey guys ,great news here,it seems that the indian navy's gorshkov class aircraft carrier(ins vikramaditya) is on schedule for commissioning ,also indian navy is to construct a third aircraft carrier from 2010 onwards,so that ultimately indian navy will have 3 aircraft carriers.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.domain-b.com/aero/20070518_vikramaditya.htm

INS Vikramaditya induction as per schedule: Defence Minister
18 May 2007
New Delhi: Aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) will be delivered to the Indian Navy by the end of 2008 as scheduled, defence minister AK Antony informed the Parliament. According to the defence minister, the Russian side has assured the Government at the highest level that the ship will be delivered as per the agreed timetable.
The aircraft carrier is currently undergoing necessary repairs / modifications at a Russian shipyard. The project is being closely monitored by the empowered apex committee headed by the defence secretary and the steering committee headed by the controller of warship production and acquisition.
The defence minister's response comes in the wake of media reports about a likely two-year delay in the acquisition of the aircraft carrier, according to which delivery was likely to be pushed back to 2010 because of cabling problems. The carrier is due to replace the long serving INS Viraat.
Upgrade plans involve stripping all weaponry from the ship's foredeck, and converting her from a hybrid carrier/cruiser to a pure carrier. The carrier is due to operate the modified naval versions of the MiG-29 (K) and the LCA Tejas aircraft.
In a package deal, the Indian Navy has also contracted to purchase up to 30 MIG 29K (Product 9.41) aircraft, six Kamov Ka-31 Helix attack, reconnaissance and anti-submarine helicopters, torpedo tubes, missile systems, and artillery units, costing an additional US$800 million. The ship will be operated in a STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Assisted Recovery) configuration, with a 14-degree ski-jump on the bow and three arrestor wires on the stern.
All reconfiguration work is being completed at the Severomorsk shipyard.

contedicavour

May 19th, 2007, 02:31 PM

kams

May 19th, 2007, 10:22 PM

Just a question about the 3-carrier target : the Hermes/Vikrant should be out by 2010-12, the first IAC should be ready by then.
The Gorshkov/Vikramatidya will be ready around 2010 (I'd say after 2012 but anyway ;) ) , the 2nd IAC around 2015 earliest.
Since I doubt the Gorshkov will remain in service more than a decade because of its age and condition, there is a need for 3 IAC , not 2, to preserve a fleet level of 3.

Besides, how much of a priority does this have vs SSN programme and the new interest for amphibious capability ?

cheers

1. When budgetory allocation for Gorshkov was made, it was envisaged to have a life of 20-25 years and would join IN by last quater of 2008 (2010 may turn out to be the actual induction year:) ). An excerpt from a MOD document;

An Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) which inter-alia provides for acquisition of Aircraft Carrier Gorshkov from Russia for the Indian Navy has been signed on 4.10.2000. A Detailed Project Document (DPD) has been prepared by the Russian side, which is under examination. This indicates tentative cost of refit and modernization package of the ship as USD 738.6 million. So far three delegations have visited Russia to examine the Gorshkov in 1995, 1998 and 1999 respectively. The recommendation made after the visit of the Ist delegation is as under:-

The detailed survey of Gorshkov indicates that the hull, machinery and equipment are in a satisfactory state. After implementing modifications as outlined for operations by Sea Harriers and option for MIG 29/LCA, this ship would provide noticeable power projection capability to the IN for the next 20-25 years. It is, therefore, recommended that the acquisition of the ship be progressed in a time bound manner and subject to reasonableness of cost.”

2. IAC is scheduled join IN by last quater of 2014. From MOD document;

Work order was issued in Jan 2004 for design and pre-production activities. The principal design of the project has been completed and detailed design was progressed adequately on the full modeling and system validation. Production drawings are ready and the construction of the ship has commenced in November 06. The keel is scheduled to be laid in Oct 2008. Ordering for major equipments is being progressed as per the agreed schedule between Navy and M/s CSL. The first phase of construction includes 15000 ton of steel 2500 tons outfit is expected to be completed by Oct 2010. The second phase construction would follow and the ship is expected to be ready for delivery by Dec 2014.”

3. Regarding requirement of 3 carriers, this is what a MOD document says;

“The Ministry of Defence have stated that a detailed study of the maritime environment around the Indian sub-continent and the Indian Ocean region, maritime interests and the strategic imperatives needed to ensure our security had shown that the Indian Navy requires two operational Aircraft Carriers. For the operational availability to remain two, a total of three Aircraft Carriers are needed."

aaaditya

May 24th, 2007, 09:53 PM

hey guys,great news here,the construction of the first scorpene submarines for the indian navy has begun at the mazagaon docks limited in mumbai.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/24/stories/2007052414811300.htm

Scorpene construction work begins in Mumbai

India has a $ 3.5-billion deal with the French for six submarines

First Scorpene will be delivered to Navy in 2012
Components for first two Scorpenes will come from France

MUMBAI: The construction of highly advanced Scorpene began at Mazgon Dock here on Wednesday under a $ 3.5 billion deal for six such submarines with the French.
"Today we are at the starting point, the construction of the first section of the hull has begun," said Jean-Marie Poimboeuf, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of DCN, the French shipbuilders supplying technology, design, consultancy and components to Mazgon Dock.
Mr. Poimboeuf said the first Scorpene would be delivered to the Indian Navy in 2012 and then one every year. Thus, five submarines would be built almost together. The components for the first two Scorpenes would come from France. But most of the equipment needed for the other four submarines would be made in India by various Indo-French collaborations or joint ventures.
Mr. Poimboeuf, who is also the chairman of GICAN, the French naval armament industry group, and other French executives are here to hold a meeting between the French and Indian industries.
The GICAN and the Confederation of Indian Industry on Wednesday began a two-day meeting. Mr. Poimboeuf said nearly 20 French companies were being represented in the Mumbai conference.
Coastal defence

Designed for coastal defence against underwater threats, the 1,750-tonne Scorpene is 67 meters long and could dive to the depth of 300 meters. It can stay at sea for 45 days with a crew of 31. The standard version has six torpedo tubes and (anti-shipping) missile launchers.
Mr. Poimboeuf said the DCN had already supplied two Scorpenes to the Chilean navy and was constructing two more in France for the Malaysians. But in case of India, all the six were being built in Mumbai. While general architecture, propulsion system and torpedo tubes were common to all the three navies, the Scorpenes for India would be somewhat different in combat systems and living accommodation.
"The Indian Navy has got the changes made to suit its requirements," he said.
The Navy wanted incorporation of some systems which were used in other Indian ships on the Scorpenes. Besides, it wanted the tubes capable of launching two different kinds of torpedoes. Mr. Poimboeuf refused to identify the origins of these torpedoes.
The supply of sea-skimming SM 39 Exocet anti-shipping missiles was a part of the deal.
Technology transfer

While the technology transfer covered the entire submarine, the French would not transfer the technology for torpedo tubes.
But Mr. Poimboeuf told The Hindu that the supply of this particular know-how could be considered. The construction would reach that stage in 2009.

contedicavour

May 25th, 2007, 08:40 AM

That last paragraph on torpedo tubes technology transfer is very interesting, especially as submarine launch of Brahmos is rumoured to be approaching (meretmarine internet site says so). May be that big cruise missile could end up being integrated into some Scorpenes ?

cheers

XEROX

May 30th, 2007, 01:28 PM

S. Korea May Build Ships for Indian Navy as Countries Boost Ties

India and South Korea this week will lay the groundwork for defense cooperation during the first visit of a South Korean defense minister to India.

Kim Jang-soo, Seoul’s defense minister, arrived May 29 and met with Indian Defence Minister A.K. Anthony here on May 30.

“The two leaders discussed matters of mutual interest,” a statement from the Indian Defence Ministry said. “Various steps to strengthen the existing defence cooperation between both the countries were also discussed, which includes training of armed forces personnel, exchange of visits and strengthening the mutual cooperation between the coast guards of the two countries and widening the scope of sea-lane communications.”

Topping that agenda will be cooperation in shipbuilding, a senior Indian Defence Ministry official said. India is keen to get its warships built in South Korea to meet the Indian Navy’s rising demand for more ships and small vessels.

The guidelines for their defense cooperation was discussed during April 5 talks in Seoul between K.P. Singh, India’s secretary for defense production, and the head of South Korea’s Defence Acquisition Program Administration, Lee Sun-hi.

To begin with, South Korea could receive a contract for construction of a frigate and an escort vessel for the Indian Navy. Currently India’s shipbuilding capability is saturated, but the Navy plans to buy more warships as a large number of obsolescent vessels will be scrapped in the next five years.
Link (http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2795609&C=asiapac)

Some interesting news showing the direction India is going vies-a-vie its naval platform requirements.

KDX-3 sailing under the Indian flag would be...:)

contedicavour

May 31st, 2007, 11:37 AM

S. Korea May Build Ships for Indian Navy as Countries Boost Ties
Link (http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2795609&C=asiapac)

Some interesting news showing the direction India is going vies-a-vie its naval platform requirements.

KDX-3 sailing under the Indian flag would be...:)

KDX-3 means Aegis and SM-2... if India asks it it could probably have it, but it would have to go through the US Congress.

cheers

XEROX

May 31st, 2007, 03:20 PM

if India asks it it could probably have it, but it would have to go through the US Congress.

And that with possible "strings attached", in regards to KDX-3 that was just on hypthososis if India tendred SK for destroyers, the main issue is the frigates they can offer, the Korean Future Frigate (FFX) program comes to mind.

swerve

May 31st, 2007, 04:10 PM

KDX-3 means Aegis and SM-2... if India asks it it could probably have it, but it would have to go through the US Congress.

cheers

Korea builds the ships, it buys in Aegis & SM-2. Could buy in a different system, e.g. something European.

Grand Danois

May 31st, 2007, 06:42 PM

Korea builds the ships, it buys in Aegis & SM-2. Could buy in a different system, e.g. something European.

Aren't they using Smart S Mk2 on some of their other ships? And the APAR/Smart L combo was proposed for the KDX-III? ;)

swerve

June 1st, 2007, 08:16 AM

Aren't they using Smart S Mk2 on some of their other ships? And the APAR/Smart L combo was proposed for the KDX-III? ;)

Sorted! Excellent radars & FCS, & I'm pretty sure it'll work with Aster.

contedicavour

June 1st, 2007, 11:55 AM

Sorted! Excellent radars & FCS, & I'm pretty sure it'll work with Aster.

Smart-L for sure, since our S 1850 is evolved from it.
Apar however I don't know because compatibility studies for Aster have only been run with Herakles, Arabel, EMPAR and Sampson.

cheers

XEROX

June 1st, 2007, 01:17 PM

How about the KDX3 being intregated with Indo-Israeli combat systems i.e. Barak-II LRSAM

submerged

June 1st, 2007, 02:45 PM

Dutch goalkeepers are fitted to some of the korean frigates, also there's been some technology exchanges in the radar field, but as far as i know the danish royal navy is the only one currently using Smart-S mk 2 operationally

Grand Danois

June 1st, 2007, 02:54 PM

Sorted! Excellent radars & FCS, & I'm pretty sure it'll work with Aster.

Oops! That's Smart-L, not Smart-S, of course. I can't either see any reason why Aster wouldn't work with at least APAR. Doesn't Aster need an update once every second?

submerged

June 1st, 2007, 03:00 PM

AFAIK Aster uses a radar uplink for initial guidance and it's own active homing in the terminal face, that said i don't see any reason APAR couldn't cooperate with Aster as it can provide target illumination and updates for the ESSM/SM-2 too, just correct me if i'm wrong

tphuang

June 2nd, 2007, 12:49 AM

Oops! That's Smart-L, not Smart-S, of course. I can't either see any reason why Aster wouldn't work with at least APAR. Doesn't Aster need an update once every second?

should be able to, the question is what's the refresh rate of APAR? If it's once every two second, then Aster would be getting bad data 1 out of every 2 times.

Grand Danois

June 3rd, 2007, 06:49 PM

should be able to, the question is what's the refresh rate of APAR? If it's once every two second, then Aster would be getting bad data 1 out of every 2 times.

The APARs "refresh" rate should be ok as it is using four big staring AESA arrays. This translates into an excellent radar time budget. I am thinking of rotation speed, which is 12 rpm for the Smart-L, and Smart-S mk2 has a rotation speed of 13.5 or 27 rpm depending on range.

It would be needing a lot of proxy data for a 1 sec data refresh rate...

http://www.thales-naval.nl/naval/pdf/smart-l.pdf

http://www.thales-naval.nl/naval/pdf/smarts-mk2.pdf

tphuang

June 3rd, 2007, 06:59 PM

The APARs "refresh" rate should be ok as it is using four big staring AESA arrays. This translates into an excellent radar time budget. I am thinking of rotation speed, which is 12 rpm for the Smart-L, and Smart-S mk2 has a rotation speed of 13.5 or 27 rpm depending on range.

It would be needing a lot of proxy data for a 1 sec data refresh rate...

http://www.thales-naval.nl/naval/pdf/smart-l.pdf

http://www.thales-naval.nl/naval/pdf/smarts-mk2.pdf

yeah, if that's their rotation speed, then there is no way they can achieve the 1 sec data refresh rate. But then, these radars are just for searching of targets (not MFR like APAR), so that's more than enough.

Grand Danois

June 3rd, 2007, 07:07 PM

yeah, if that's their rotation speed, then there is no way they can achieve the 1 sec data refresh rate. But then, these radars are just for searching of targets (not MFR like APAR), so that's more than enough.

Agreed. So these rotators look as if they aren't compatible with Asters on their own...

contedicavour

June 4th, 2007, 11:57 AM

aaaditya

June 8th, 2007, 10:53 AM

hey guys ,check out these interesting article on the history and of the admiral gorshkov and the indian navy's plans for it in the future,also included is a detailed article about the capabilities of the the mig29k and the mig29kub and the indian involvement in the project.

here are the links and the article:

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070607/66864044.html

MOSCOW. (Viktor Litovkin for RIA Novosti) - In early May, an Indian naval delegation headed by Vice Admiral Birinder Singh Randhawa, Controller of Warship Production and Acquisition at the Integrated Headquarters, Ministry of Defense (Navy), visited Severodvinsk, a major submarine construction centre in the Arkhangelsk Region, northern Russia. In spite of cold temperatures, piercing winds and snowfalls, the visit proved very fruitful. The delegation visited the local Northern Engineering Works (Sevmashpredpriatiye) and inspected the Mk 1143.4 Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, now being refitted under a bilateral contract. The aircraft carrier, due to be renamed the Vikramaditya after a famous Indian general, is expected to enter service with the Indian Navy in August 2008.
Vice Admiral Randhawa was very pleased with the visit's results and noted many changes in the warship's upper-deck structures and interior. Although the Admiral Gorshkov's modernisation is somewhat behind schedule, Mr. Randhawa said this extremely difficult project would face problems from time to time. But he said he saw that Sevmashpredpriatiye was doing its best to solve them in time.
What is the Admiral Gorshkov?
On December 26, 1978, the keel of the Mk 1143.4 Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier was laid at the Nikolayev shipyard in Ukraine. The 273-meter long warship displaces 48,500 tons, has a beam of 49 meters and a 10.2-meter draught. The Admiral Gorshkov, which can cruise along at 30.7 knots, has a 30-day sea endurance and a 1,610-man crew.
She entered service with the Soviet Navy in December 1987 and was assigned the task of guarding strategic missile submarines. For that purpose, the Admiral Gorshkov operated 14 Yakovlev Yak-141 Freestyle vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) fighters, eight Yak-38 Forger VTOL fighters, as well as 16 Kamov Ka-25 and Ka-252RLD Hormone and Ka-252PS Helix anti-submarine warfare (ASW), reconnaissance and search-and-rescue helicopters.
Moreover, the aircraft carrier, which supported warship formations and naval strategic bombers in combat areas, was supposed to attack enemy aircraft, warships and submarines. For this purpose the Admiral Gorshkov had 12 Bazalt anti-ship missile launchers, six ten-tube Udav-1 anti-submarine rocket mortars, four torpedo tubes, as well as four Klinok air-defense systems comprising 24 launchers, two 100-mm AK-100 guns and eight 30-mm AK-630 anti-aircraft guns.
However, it turned out that VTOL fighters did not correspond to specifications, carried small ordnance loads, had a short combat range and crashed rather often. The disintegration of the Soviet Union and subsequent financial shortages made it impossible to eliminate these drawbacks. These warplanes were scrapped, and the Admiral Gorshkov had to be berthed.
The warship could have suffered the same sorry fate as her sister ships, namely, the Kiev, the Minsk and the Novorossiisk, that also carried Yakovlev fighters, and which were eventually sold for scrap. However, the Indian Navy took an interest in the Admiral Gorshkov and therefore prevented her destruction.
Moscow and New Delhi negotiated the carrier modernization contract for many years. The Indian side insisted that Russia charge less for overhauling the Admiral Gorshkov. According to some rumors, the warship was sold to India as scrap metal, that is, for $150-$200 per tons. Moreover, New Delhi insisted that the Russian carrier be upgraded in order to accommodate horizontal take-off and landing fighters, and that its arsenal should include weapons popular with the Indian Navy. Moscow accepted all these proposals.
The $1.5 billion Gorshkov modernization contract was signed in 2004. The total overhaul expenses amounted to $600-700 million. The rest will be spent on deck fighters, equipment and weapons from third parties. The Nevskoye Design Bureau in St. Petersburg, which had developed the Admiral Gorshkov, submitted the modernization project. The warship is being overhauled at Sevmashpredpriyatiye in Severodvinsk.
All redundant artillery systems and missiles, including Bazalt launchers and AK-100 guns, will be removed during the project's initial stage. All other weapons, namely, Klinok air-defense systems, AK-630 anti-aircraft guns, and most radio-electronics and specialized equipment will also have to go.
Instead the Admiral Gorshkov is to receive new-generation air-defense systems, whose specifications are not known yet. The initial modernization stage will end after obsolete machinery is replaced with up-to-date equivalents. After that, New Delhi will become the ship's legal owner.
During the second stage, India will list all the required weapons and equipment for the Vikramaditya. Her upper deck will be extended until the bow section, and a 14-degree 20-meter-wide ramp will be constructed there.
The 280-meter flight deck will have a 198-meter runway for operating Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29-K Fulcrum supersonic fighters chosen by India.
The 24-meter-wide runway will feature three arrester wires, and there will also be a 130 by 23 by 5.7-meter hangar below the deck. The hangar will have a 30-ton 18.91 by 9.96-meter lift located amidships left of the island superstructure and a 20-ton 18.91 by 8.65-meter lift behind the superstructure and in front of the arrester wires. The top-deck aircraft parking area will measure 2,400 square meters. The Vikramaditya will therefore become one of the best aircraft carriers in her class.
Viktor Litovkin, deputy editor in chief, Nezavisimoye Voennoye Obozreniye, a weekly supplement to Nezavisimaya Gazeta.
The continuation of the article will be posted soon.
The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

aaaditya

June 8th, 2007, 10:59 AM

hey guys here is the part two of the above article:

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070608/66897461.html

MOSCOW. (Viktor Litovkin for RIA Novosti) - In February 2007, Indian pilots and sailors were quite impressed to see the single-seat MiG-29K Fulcrum deck fighter and the two-seat MiG-29KUB deck trainer/combat plane at an airfield in Zhukovsky near Moscow.
"We have known about the top-class MiG warplanes for a long time, but the MiG-29KUB that was developed by Russia and India is even better," said Commander Jasvinder Chauhan, India's Air Force Attache in Moscow.
This statement is no exaggeration because Indian experts had teamed up with designers and engineers of Russia's MiG Aircraft Corporation to develop the MiG-29KUB. They listed all the required specifications, which were embodied in the warplane.
In some cases, Indian specifications may have seemed exorbitant because they exceeded the best achievements of the global aircraft industry. However, MiG complied with the requests of its clients. The Indian side helped to integrate foreign electronics into the plane's avionics, to develop simulators and to choose the required weaponry.
Nikolai Buntin, chief designer of the MiG-29KUB project for India, said the Russian Air Force and Navy lack such good planes. The MiG-29-KUB's radio-electronic system features the French-made Thales TopSight helmet-borne sighting device and the Sagem Sigma-95 laser-gyroscope inertial navigation system. Thales TopSight is, in fact, a shock-resistant helmet that will protect the pilot if a bird shatters the cockpit canopy. Its sighting device is activated by a movement of the head. The fighter's unique open-architecture and modular-system avionics will not become obsolete in the next ten to 15 years. Only separate components of the MiG-29KUB's radio-electronic system will have to be replaced if the need arises.
This radio-electronic system is an upgraded version of the one installed on the MiG-29SMT fighter, also serving with the Indian Air Force. It retains the MIL-1553B-type bus, to which the plane's electronics are attached, and four-channel multiplex settings. Nikolai Buntin said the MiG-29K has a more sophisticated multiplex bus than other Russian planes being sold elsewhere. He said the MiG-29KUB's vital systems feature fiber optic communications channels.
Fiber channels and fiber optic lines expedite data-exchange speeds 100 times over and enable the pilot to outmaneuver and outgun the enemy. No MiG warplane has ever had any high-speed data-exchange channels before. All three multi-purpose MFI10-6 data screens in the MiG-29KUB's front and rear cockpits, the IKSH-1K heads-up display (HUD) and the Thales TopSight sighting device/target-acquisition system receive video information from the Fazotron-NIIR radar, the new-generation Zhuk-ME optronic radar, other sighting and radio-electronic warfare systems and the built-in digital terrain contour matching (TERCOM) map along fiber channels.
The wide-angle sighting and navigation system, developed by the Ramenskoye PKB avionics design bureau, features a revamped BCVM486-3M computer with a 486DX processor and a 90 MHz tact frequency, as well as indicators and consoles. The system, which is the main aircraft element, also integrates other systems in line with their software packages compiled by the main MiG-29KUB contractor and main-system suppliers. The Ramenskoye PKB is responsible for integrating the plane's radio-electronic system.
The IKSH-1K (Russian acronym for Wide-Format Collimator Ship Indicator) heads-up display has never been installed on Russian planes before. Previous export-oriented aircraft versions, namely, the Sukhoi Su-30MKI and the Su-30MKM Flanker, were fitted with Israeli and French E1OP and Thales systems. However, the brighter Russian HUDs display teletext data and allow the pilot to take aim through these systems round the clock, even against targets obscured by the glaring sun.
The warplane's RD-33MK engine, which was designed at the St. Petersburg-based Klimov Plant, a major national aircraft engine manufacturer, is made at the Chernyshov Machine-Building Plant in Moscow.
The first MiG-29KUB, shown to the Indian delegation, featured experimental RD-33MK engines that were delivered in December 2005. But the Klimov Plant has made considerable headway since then and increased the engine's total service life to 4,000 hours. Each engine is subject to overhaul after operating for 1,000 hours and develops 9,000 kilogram-force thrust in the afterburner mode.
Alexander Vatagin, general director of the Klimov Plant, told journalists that production engines would differ in terms of maximum thrust, smoke levels and radar visibility from those installed on the prototype plane. He said the engine would have brand-new hot section components, a new accessory box and a FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) system for greater dependability and failsafe operation.
Vatagin said the customer would receive aircraft with engines completely matching the request for proposal (RFP) and specific recommendations, and comments made during bench and flight tests.
The MiG-29-KUB will be fitted with standard missiles and probably the Russian-Indian BrahMos anti-ship cruise missile.
In all, the Indian Navy is to get 12 single-seat MiG-29K fighters and four two-seat MiG-29KUB planes and will also have the right to buy another 30 MiG-29-K/ MiG-29KUB warplanes. However, the latter would only be produced after 2010, if New Delhi confirms its order.
The Admiral Gorshkov/Vikramaditya contract is behind schedule due to numerous reasons. It took a lot of time and effort to choose the required weapons, to eliminate ship defects and to finance specific operations. Energy resources, materials, components and spare parts have become more expensive since the contract was signed in 2004, the cost of labor in Russia has also grown.
Moscow would like New Delhi to provide additional funding because the loss-making Sevmashpredpriyatiye is having trouble fulfilling the contract. However, the Indian Navy is dissatisfied with that because it was agreed that budgetary allocations should not be exceeded. Although the Indian stand is clear, the cash-strapped Sevmashpredpriyatiye needs more money. They say that the aircraft carrier will only enter service with the Indian Navy in late 2010, instead of the initially planned late 2008.
However, sources in Severodvinsk said Indian admirals have reacted with understanding to all these problems, which hopefully will not affect bilateral relations.
In the meantime, the future Vikramaditya crew has been living in Severodvinsk on a rotation basis for over a year and learning to operate, service and repair the aircraft carrier and its sophisticated systems. In all, eight groups of Indian military personnel are expected to complete their four-month tours of duty at Sevmashpredpriyatiye. Indian sailors have come to Severodvinsk together with their families, who enjoy playing snowballs, making snowmen and organizing concerts that attract up to 5,000 spectators each. These concerts feature Indian songs and dances, comedy sketches and martial arts bouts; popular Russian melodies are also performed.
The people of Severodvinsk have come to love those friendly, kind-hearted and smiling Indian officers, their wives and children and are proud to have a "little New Delhi" and a "little Mumbai" in their city.
Although it is deplorable that the Indian Navy will not receive its new aircraft carrier as scheduled, the time spent by Indian officers and their families in northern Russia will help them get to know and love this cold but infinitely beautiful region and the Russian people - as open-hearted and sincere as the Indians.
Viktor Litovkin, deputy editor in chief, Nezavisimoye Voennoye Obozreniye, a weekly supplement to Nezavisimaya Gazeta.
The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

contedicavour

June 8th, 2007, 06:41 PM

aaaditya

June 9th, 2007, 07:50 AM

hey guys,great news,according to the indian naval chief the aircraft carrier admiral gorshkov is to be inducted in the later part of this year,indian navy is also preparing a procurement policy for acquisition of upto 40 warships of various kinds from foreign vendors,due to capacity stagnation in the indian shipyards(they are reported to be currently manufacturing 33 warships for the navy and around 27 for the coast guard).

here check out this link and article:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gorshkov_to_be_inducted_in_Navy_by_year-end_Naval_Chief/articleshow/2111269.cms

DEHRADUN: Russian aircraft carrier 'Admiral Gorshkov' will be inducted into the Indian Navy later this year, naval chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta said on Saturday.

"We are inducting Gorshkov by the later part of the next year," the Chief of Naval Staff told reporters after reviewing the passing out parade at the Indian Military Academy (IMA).

'Gorshkov' has a sea endurance of 30 days and a capacity to carry more than 2,000 sailors. India has bought the Russian carrier in 2004 after years of negotiations.

On enhancing maritime surveillance, Mehta said the Navy is finalising a proposal for the purchase of suitable equipments from abroad.

"Modernisation plans of the navy are on the right track. We have moved far ahead in our modernisation plans," he said.

He said the Navy is will be adding 40 more new ships in the near future.

"For this purpose, orders have already been placed for building 33 new ships in Indian yards while six ships are being purchased from abroad," he said. The Navy presently has 136 warships.

"The order-book of all the Indian yards is full," he said adding the budget allocation for the purchase of new ships has already been allocated.

Besides this, India would also be buying six submarines.

aaaditya

June 9th, 2007, 07:54 AM

Jane's is reporting that DCN is abandoning plans to propose Marlin SSKs to Pakistan and is proposing Scorpene instead. The same Scorpene that they sold to India ... IMO this clears the way for HDW and their U214...

cheers

indian navy scorpenes are likely to be considerable different to the baseline scorpenes currently being acquired ,indian navy plans to indigenous upgrade its scorpenes after the construction of the first 2,i wouldnt be surprised if the upgrades turn out to be inline with the spanish s80 class of submarines.

swerve

June 9th, 2007, 08:59 AM

Besides, commercially I doubt the Franco-Italian consortium would like to offer Asters with a competitor's radar. AFAIK the highest margins are made from the radars and associated electronics, not from the missiles themselves.
What weakens the consortium behind Aster is that the French are pushing for Herakles while we are pushing for EMPAR.

cheers

MBDA makes Aster, it doesn't make the radars, & would happily sell the missile with any radar it can get it integrated with. Aster is already integrated with S1850M, Sampson, Arabel, Empar, Herakles . . . IIRC Empar is made by Selex (Italy/UK), Arabel & Herakles by Thales, S1850M by Thales Nederland & BAe Insyte, Sampson by Insyte. Looks to me as if everyone & his dog in European radar makers already has a finger in the Aster pie. So what's the problem? We're not talking about competitors radars, we're talking about radars made by one of the existing radar suppliers, i.e. Thales - which is, right now, simultaneously selling radars packaged with US missiles. Packaging the same radars with Aster is going to hurt who? Depends on whether it replaces SM-2/ESSM sales or Empar sales, doesn't it?

kams

June 9th, 2007, 11:44 AM

It is highly unlikely that IN is looking for Aster15 or 30 or anyother long range missiles. IMHO it's going to be Barak II with MF-STAR (or anyother compatible radar). So the India may be looking at S.Korean shipyards as a means of faster induction of domestic designs.

swerve

June 10th, 2007, 05:11 PM

It is highly unlikely that IN is looking for Aster15 or 30 or anyother long range missiles.

Aster 15 isn't long range.

Rich

June 12th, 2007, 02:24 PM

indian navy scorpenes are likely to be considerable different to the baseline scorpenes currently being acquired ,indian navy plans to indigenous upgrade its scorpenes after the construction of the first 2,i wouldnt be surprised if the upgrades turn out to be inline with the spanish s80 class of submarines.

In my opinion the IN is approaching the threshold of becoming a true Blue Water presence and not just a local, or even regional, player.

The real key to this opinion doesn't lie in the amount of ships the IN has, the type of ships, or even the type of systems. My real reason for expressing this analysis is "the sustained expenditure of capitol and national resources in building a Industrial/military complex capable of self sustaining a multi-layered strike navy." Of particular importance are their indigenous SSN, SSBN, and carrier programs. Think about it? America, France, England, Russia, China. All are not only on the UN security council, but they all have, or shortly will have, SSNs, SSBNs, Carriers, and the military/industrial complex to build them.

While they have had problems with their nuclear submarine programs the important thing is they have kept at it, despite the issues, and once those SSNs, or SSBNs, armed with nukes, become a reality then the IN will have become the most important arm of the Indian armed forces and will have become a tool of National policy with worldwide range.

SSNs, SSBNs, carriers = Blue water navy. The IN is real close.

I spend a lot of time in Google Earth keeping an eye on things and the Indian navy bases, and assets, Ive seen from space a pretty impressive. And I aint just talking ships and bases either, but boatyards, defense industries, and supporting infrustructure. This is a country that is taking the evolution of their navy very seriously.

The IN is a force to be reckoned with.