Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[Grand Danois]

You mean the one on the Norwegian Nansen FFGs ?
I think you are being a bit too optimistic here, the SPY-1F is the latest evolution of the most sophisticated type of AAW radars around, and Israel would be able to develop a copy so fast ??

cheers

Perhaps it is optimistic. I was, however, thinking of the similar range against high flying targets and what it is supposed to do...

The SPY-1F has 1856 transmitter elements per array versus the 4350 of the SPY-1D, so it is physically downgraded version of a 1980's design. The magic is in the software and upgrades behind the radar.

I do wonder how far the MF-STAR is in its development. Are the Israelis just starting out?

[kams]

I do wonder how far the MF-STAR is in its development. Are the Israelis just starting out?

Well, IAI/ELTA have a sale brochure for MF=STAR (link -mf-star (http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/0/30310.pdf) ), so I assume development is complete and is available for sale.

[Grand Danois]

Well, IAI/ELTA have a sale brochure for MF=STAR (link -mf-star (http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/0/30310.pdf) ), so I assume development is complete and is available for sale.

I certainly don't know much about the MF-STAR, but I haven't seen it fielded on any ship yet.

A brochure doesn't necessarily mean that development is complete, it could just as well be a prospects brochure to attract funding for the development from outside sources.

It is presented as development is done, though (sceptical).

[contedicavour]

I certainly don't know much about the MF-STAR, but I haven't seen it fielded on any ship yet.

A brochure doesn't necessarily mean that development is complete, it could just as well be a prospects brochure to attract funding for the development from outside sources.

It is presented as development is done, though (sceptical).

What is the AAW radar aboard the Saar V ? (I don't have my beloved encyclopedia Jane's with me ;) ) Could the MF-Star be an evolution of an existing system deployed on the Saar Vs already ?

cheers

[Sea Toby]

The Saar Vs have a Elta AIO III combat system, a Elta EL/M 2228S 3-D air search radar, 2 Elta EL/M 2221 GM STGR fire control radar, plus a Cardion SPS-55 surface search radar.
The next batch of Saar V+ class will be armed with new generation ASAM and SAM missiles. They will probably have an improved combat system as well.

[kams]

It appears that ELTA MF-STAR is used in upgraded SPYDER SR too. SPYDER SR has a range of 15 km where as SPYDER MR (the upgraded version) has a range of 35+ km. SPYDER system uses DERBY and PYTHON 5 missiles. In case of SPYDER MR, their range is increased by addition of a booster. The radar in case of SPYDER SR is Elta EL/M-2106 (Range of 60 km) and MF-STAR (mounted on a 20 m mast, range 100+ km) in case of SPYDER MR. Situation in case of BARAK II is very similar. Question is, will addition of a booster sufficient to increase the range of missile?

[contedicavour]

The Saar Vs have a Elta AIO III combat system, a Elta EL/M 2228S 3-D air search radar, 2 Elta EL/M 2221 GM STGR fire control radar, plus a Cardion SPS-55 surface search radar.
The next batch of Saar V+ class will be armed with new generation ASAM and SAM missiles. They will probably have an improved combat system as well.

Thanks for the information. So, no MF Star installed, rather a more traditional 3D air search radar. I doubt we'll see a new batch of Saar V built, they are too crammed with weaponry and electronics. I've read that the Israeli Navy wishes to participate to the American LCS programme (though whether they want the Freedom or the Independence versions, nobody knows). That would help giving a much bigger hull with more space.

cheers

[contedicavour]

It appears that ELTA MF-STAR is used in upgraded SPYDER SR too. SPYDER SR has a range of 15 km where as SPYDER MR (the upgraded version) has a range of 35+ km. SPYDER system uses DERBY and PYTHON 5 missiles. In case of SPYDER MR, their range is increased by addition of a booster. The radar in case of SPYDER SR is Elta EL/M-2106 (Range of 60 km) and MF-STAR (mounted on a 20 m mast, range 100+ km) in case of SPYDER MR. Situation in case of BARAK II is very similar. Question is, will addition of a booster sufficient to increase the range of missile?

Wow you've got quite a deal of information here !! Thanks :)
I'm lost though on this SPYDER combat system. Is it originally used on aircrafts (since you name Derby BVR and Python IR missiles) ?
If the radar's range is indeed only 100+km, then I guess it's useless to have SAMs with a range much beyond half that range (EMPAR = 190+km, Aster 30 = 120km... and the ships carrying EMPAR also have 400+km range S1850 or RAN)

cheers

[kams]

Wow you've got quite a deal of information here !! Thanks :)
I'm lost though on this SPYDER combat system. Is it originally used on aircrafts (since you name Derby BVR and Python IR missiles) ?
If the radar's range is indeed only 100+km, then I guess it's useless to have SAMs with a range much beyond half that range (EMPAR = 190+km, Aster 30 = 120km... and the ships carrying EMPAR also have 400+km range S1850 or RAN)

cheers
My apologies for completely confusing you. SPYDER is ground based airdefense system (SHORAD), which uses Derby Radar Guided missiles and Python IIR guided missiles (Air to Air missiles configured for SHORAD). I was trying to point out the approach adopted by Israeli's in upgrading the range of SPYDER SR (Short range - 15 km) to SPYDER MR (Medium range 35 km). Here they attached a booster to the missiles and used a longer range radar. Similar approach may be adopted for BARAK II.

MF-STAR used in SPYDER MR has lesser range (100 km vs 250 km in Navalised version) due to limitation imposed by the need to be mobile in SHORAD.

Did I confuse you further??

My question was, will it be possible to use the same missile in BARAK I by attaching a booster or are we looking at totally new missile?

[contedicavour]

My apologies for completely confusing you. SPYDER is ground based airdefense system (SHORAD), which uses Derby Radar Guided missiles and Python IIR guided missiles (Air to Air missiles configured for SHORAD). I was trying to point out the approach adopted by Israeli's in upgrading the range of SPYDER SR (Short range - 15 km) to SPYDER MR (Medium range 35 km). Here they attached a booster to the missiles and used a longer range radar. Similar approach may be adopted for BARAK II.

MF-STAR used in SPYDER MR has lesser range (100 km vs 250 km in Navalised version) due to limitation imposed by the need to be mobile in SHORAD.

Did I confuse you further??

My question was, will it be possible to use the same missile in BARAK I by attaching a booster or are we looking at totally new missile?

Ah-ha thanks, now I understand !
I wasn't aware the Israelis were using air-to-air missiles for shorad purposes. It's true that the French do that often (Mistral for example) but on radar-guided longer-range weapons I'm surprised. I remember seeing a SAM based on Amraam, but I don't think anybody bought that system.
What I learned most from your post is that a ground version of MF-STAR is up and running (am I correct ?). In that case finalizing the navalized version becomes easier and credible.
Unfortunately I can't answer your question on the evolution of the Baraks, though it makes perfect sense to add boosters. The US does it all the time, extending the SM-1MR into ER, and evolving the SM-2 family by adding boosters. Even the Aster-30 is a longer -15 (though there are some more structural differences).

cheers

[Grand Danois]

I wasn't aware the Israelis were using air-to-air missiles for shorad purposes. It's true that the French do that often (Mistral for example) but on radar-guided longer-range weapons I'm surprised. I remember seeing a SAM based on Amraam, but I don't think anybody bought that system.


The Norwegians were the first to build a SAM based on the AIM-120, called NASAMS. They tried to barter these for some PZH2000 from Holland a few years ago. Don't think they succeded.

The Americans took the NASAMS concept and developed the SLAMRAAM. Four-six AMRAAM's on a Hummer with appropriate fire controls. These are in use for the aerial defence of Washington DC.

So the AIM-120 as a SAM is developed and bought. ;)

[darsh]

hi! i am new here. could someone tell me the difference between the agosta subs and the scorpene subs that india has and whch one is better with regards to range, weapon systems, stealth and overall capability.

[contedicavour]

The Norwegians were the first to build a SAM based on the AIM-120, called NASAMS. They tried to barter these for some PZH2000 from Holland a few years ago. Don't think they succeded.

The Americans took the NASAMS concept and developed the SLAMRAAM. Four-six AMRAAM's on a Hummer with appropriate fire controls. These are in use for the aerial defence of Washington DC.

So the AIM-120 as a SAM is developed and bought. ;)

I wasn't aware of that. Weird choice with all the Patriots, Stingers, not to mention the presence of the 1st Air Wing with F22s...
The amraam's range when based on a Hummer with ground based guidance must be pretty limited.
Btw, who operates this one-of-a-kind system ? Army, Marines, Secret Service ?

cheers

[Grand Danois]

Btw, who operates this one-of-a-kind system ? Army, Marines, Secret Service ?

Both Army and Marines would be operating SLAMRAAM

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/surface-launched/

[Gibser]

Where you get it???

[aprasadi]

Dear All,

One of my friends whoz working in Goa ship yard told me that 3 ships are under construction there. 2 are fast patrol vesels and while one is Frigate.The thing about this frigate he told me is that he has never seen such ship before in IN and is the latest design. Can anybody enlighten me wht kind of frigate it can be.

[contedicavour]

Dear All,

One of my friends whoz working in Goa ship yard told me that 3 ships are under construction there. 2 are fast patrol vesels and while one is Frigate.The thing about this frigate he told me is that he has never seen such ship before in IN and is the latest design. Can anybody enlighten me wht kind of frigate it can be.

Most probably a P17-class FFG that will be the backbone of the Indian Navy together with the 3+3 Russian Talwars/Krivak improved.

cheers

[aaaditya]

Most probably a P17-class FFG that will be the backbone of the Indian Navy together with the 3+3 Russian Talwars/Krivak improved.

cheers

all the p17 frigates are being built at mumbai and not at goa ,aprasadi's friend must have mistaken as a frigate the 2500 ton extra large patrol vessel being built by gsl for the indian coast guard.this 2500 ton elpv would be the largest patrol vessel with the coast guard.

[aaaditya]

hey guys the trial nuclear reactor for the indian nuclear submarine is now operational ,this 100mw reactor had been running successfully since 2004 end,now the reactor would be fitted into the hull of the submarine.

here check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/18/stories/2006081800541500.htm

Mini version of reactor to be built and fitted into the submarine


The reactor went critical towards the end of 2004
Mood upbeat about building of submarine

CHENNAI: The reactor for India's nuclear-powered submarine project at Kalpakkam, near here, is working smoothly at its full capacity of 100 MWe, informed sources said.
Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee inspected the project on July 18 while taking part in the 20th anniversary celebrations of the commissioning of the Fast Breeder Test Reactor there.
The project is called the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) programme.
The sources said the reactor, which went critical towards the end of 2004, was fully operational now.
A miniaturised version of the reactor would be built and fitted into the submarine.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited the ATV facility on October 23, 2004, when he launched the construction of the Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) there.
Substantial progress has also been made in building the submarine's hull at Visakhapatnam, the sources said.
The ATV is a joint project of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), the Navy and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The ATV has facilities at BARC in Mumbai, Kalpakkam, and Visakhapatnam.
The mood is upbeat in these facilities about the progress made. The fuel for the reactor, which is highly enriched uranium, comes from the Rare Materials Project near Ratnahalli, near Mysore.

[kams]

Govt. of india has finalized acquisition of USS trenton along with 4 Landing Craft Mechanised (LCMs) for Indian Navy for $48 million. This boost INs ambhib capability big time.
PURCHASE OF TRANSPORT WARSHIP FROM USA (http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20221)

[aaaditya]

Govt. of india has finalized acquisition of USS trenton along with 4 Landing Craft Mechanised (LCMs) for Indian Navy for $48 million. This boost INs ambhib capability big time.
PURCHASE OF TRANSPORT WARSHIP FROM USA (http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20221)

kams did you notice the important part in that article you posted,india has plans to design an indigenous lpd,i believe it will most probably be in the 18000 tons class like the trenton.

No technical know how for the construction of such a ship in India is envisaged under the present acquisition. However, the induction of LPD would help in gaining user experience apart from providing essential design inputs for the indigenous construction of LPD.

[contedicavour]

kams did you notice the important part in that article you posted,india has plans to design an indigenous lpd,i believe it will most probably be in the 18000 tons class like the trenton.

No technical know how for the construction of such a ship in India is envisaged under the present acquisition. However, the induction of LPD would help in gaining user experience apart from providing essential design inputs for the indigenous construction of LPD.

A great step forward for the Indian navy, filling the only significant hole in your capabilities :)

cheers

[kams]

AAditya,
Yes I did see the reference to Indigenous LPD. Could some one update me on how difficult is it to build an LPD (as large as 18,000 T). How different is it as compared to building a commercial container ship? I believe Cochin shipyard built a large container vessel recently for a foreign customer.

No word on 6 Sea King Helicopters we were supposed to buy with USS Trenton. :confused:

[contedicavour]

AAditya,
Yes I did see the reference to Indigenous LPD. Could some one update me on how difficult is it to build an LPD (as large as 18,000 T). How different is it as compared to building a commercial container ship? I believe Cochin shipyard built a large container vessel recently for a foreign customer.

No word on 6 Sea King Helicopters we were supposed to buy with USS Trenton. :confused:

If you can build the ADS aircraft carrier with only limited outside help (Italian and Russian), there is no doubt you'll be able to build LPDs, don't worry ;)

cheers

[aaaditya]

AAditya,
Yes I did see the reference to Indigenous LPD. Could some one update me on how difficult is it to build an LPD (as large as 18,000 T). How different is it as compared to building a commercial container ship? I believe Cochin shipyard built a large container vessel recently for a foreign customer.

No word on 6 Sea King Helicopters we were supposed to buy with USS Trenton. :confused:

i agree with contedicavour,if india can build an aircraft carrier ,then i dont see any problems in their building an 18000 ton lpd or an lhd.

the cochin shipyard has the capability to build vessels of upto 100000 tons displacement(usually bulk carriers),mazagaon docks limited can build between 36000-60000 ton vessels.

recently larsen and toubro has entered shipbuilding using dutch ro-ro vessel technology and have already won orders worth several million dollars for supply of several vessels to a foreign customer(the article has already been posted on this thread),they are focussing on warships,submarines and large transport vessels for the indian navy,i would place their capabilities at around 36000 tons(however they have not yet received any orders from the indian navy as of now).

iam sure larsen and toubro's services can be utilised as they are also heavily involved in the ads project.

[contedicavour]

It is also likely that as Italy's Fincantieri should start building around 2012 a 25,000 ton LPH with some light CV characteristics, very similar to the Cavour and the Indian ADS/IAC... then India might find it interesting to build its own adapted version of such a LPH. To summarize, an adapted and scaled down version of ADS/IAC.

Having LPDs is great, though without a LPH (unless you use a carrier as temporary LPH) the Indian Marines will be limited in their operational capabilities.

cheers

[aaaditya]

It is also likely that as Italy's Fincantieri should start building around 2012 a 25,000 ton LPH with some light CV characteristics, very similar to the Cavour and the Indian ADS/IAC... then India might find it interesting to build its own adapted version of such a LPH. To summarize, an adapted and scaled down version of ADS/IAC.

Having LPDs is great, though without a LPH (unless you use a carrier as temporary LPH) the Indian Marines will be limited in their operational capabilities.

cheers

actually there have been reports that india is actively considering acquiring and manufacturing the french mistral class of landing helicopter docks,they may most probably be built at garden reach shipbuilders and engineers limited at kolkatta.

[contedicavour]

actually there have been reports that india is actively considering acquiring and manufacturing the french mistral class of landing helicopter docks,they may most probably be built at garden reach shipbuilders and engineers limited at kolkatta.

The Mistrals are good LPHs. Though they have different machinery (Wartsila diesel generators instead of the LM2500s on the ADS/IAC) and very different hull configurations. Since your shipyards are getting familiar with the Cavour's design, it may be easier and cheaper to duplicate this knowledge on a LPH version.
Anyway, Wartsila is an affiliate of Fincantieri, so fine with me ;)

cheers

[aaaditya]

The Mistrals are good LPHs. Though they have different machinery (Wartsila diesel generators instead of the LM2500s on the ADS/IAC) and very different hull configurations. Since your shipyards are getting familiar with the Cavour's design, it may be easier and cheaper to duplicate this knowledge on a LPH version.
Anyway, Wartsila is an affiliate of Fincantieri, so fine with me ;)

cheers

italy seems to be getting a lot of buisness from india these days,italian lerici class of mine counter measure vessels are currently the front runners for an indian navy order for 8 vessels to be built by the goa shipyards limited.by the way the ads being based on the cavour design will have the lpd capability ,i believe the cavour can carry a battalion of troops.

[contedicavour]

italy seems to be getting a lot of buisness from india these days,italian lerici class of mine counter measure vessels are currently the front runners for an indian navy order for 8 vessels to be built by the goa shipyards limited.by the way the ads being based on the cavour design will have the lpd capability ,i believe the cavour can carry a battalion of troops.

I didn't know about the MCM competition in India ! Thanks for the news.
The Cavour can embark MBTs up to 60tonnes from a ramp on its port side below the superstructure ; the hangar can carry vehicles and material for 600 Marines approx. However I wouldn't really call it a LPD because it doesn't have a floodable well dock for LCACs, LCUs, etc. At one time this capability was considered, but rejected.

cheers

[aaaditya]

hey guys great news indian navy is inducting the dhanush missile ,the dhanush is a solid fuelled variant of the prithvi short range surface to surface ballistic missile having a range of 350kms and capable of carrying a 750-1000 kgs warhead.these missiles can be fired from the two patrol vessels ins subhadra (around 1650 tons displacement)and ins sukanya,a submarine launched variant is currently under development known as the k-15.

here check out this link and article:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1914005.cms

NEW DELHI: There is finally some good news on the missile front after the 3,500-km Agni-III failure on July 9. The IAF and Navy are now operationalising Prithvi surface-to-surface ballistic missiles in their armoury.

Though meant for conventional battlefield use, these missiles are also capable of carrying nuclear warheads.

Though Army has had its 150-km Prithvi-I missiles for some years, it's only now that IAF and Navy have begun operationalising the longer-range variants of the same missile.

The IAF, for instance, has recently moved one of its Prithvi-II missile squadrons from Hyderabad to the Palam-based Western Air Command in New Delhi for swifter deployment on the battle-front in times of emergency, say sources.

The Navy, in turn, is weaponising its Sukanya-class large patrol crafts with Prithvi's "Dhanush" variant, which has a strike range of 250-km to 350-km. "The fitment of Dhanush on INS Survarna and INS Subhadra, for instance, is well underway," said an official.

"The missile stabilisation platform on the warships enables Dhanush, which can carry both conventional and non-conventional warheads, to be fired even in stormy weather," he added.

Interestingly, Defence and Research Development Organisation is also working on a Prithvi variant, being developed under the project name K-15, capable of being launched from a submarine.

This project, if successful, will go a long way towards giving Navy the desperately-needed SLBM (Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile) capability.

With a declared no-first use nuclear doctrine, India urgently requires the capability to fire nuclear-tipped SLBMs for secure and effective second-strike capabilities.

Incidentally, production facilities at Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Limited have been enhanced for manufacturing at least three dozen Prithvi missiles every year.

[contedicavour]

hey guys great news indian navy is inducting the dhanush missile ,the dhanush is a solid fuelled variant of the prithvi short range surface to surface ballistic missile having a range of 350kms and capable of carrying a 750-1000 kgs warhead.these missiles can be fired from the two patrol vessels ins subhadra (around 1650 tons displacement)and ins sukanya,a submarine launched variant is currently under development known as the k-15.

here check out this link and article:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1914005.cms

NEW DELHI: There is finally some good news on the missile front after the 3,500-km Agni-III failure on July 9. The IAF and Navy are now operationalising Prithvi surface-to-surface ballistic missiles in their armoury.

Though meant for conventional battlefield use, these missiles are also capable of carrying nuclear warheads.

Though Army has had its 150-km Prithvi-I missiles for some years, it's only now that IAF and Navy have begun operationalising the longer-range variants of the same missile.

The IAF, for instance, has recently moved one of its Prithvi-II missile squadrons from Hyderabad to the Palam-based Western Air Command in New Delhi for swifter deployment on the battle-front in times of emergency, say sources.

The Navy, in turn, is weaponising its Sukanya-class large patrol crafts with Prithvi's "Dhanush" variant, which has a strike range of 250-km to 350-km. "The fitment of Dhanush on INS Survarna and INS Subhadra, for instance, is well underway," said an official.

"The missile stabilisation platform on the warships enables Dhanush, which can carry both conventional and non-conventional warheads, to be fired even in stormy weather," he added.

Interestingly, Defence and Research Development Organisation is also working on a Prithvi variant, being developed under the project name K-15, capable of being launched from a submarine.

This project, if successful, will go a long way towards giving Navy the desperately-needed SLBM (Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile) capability.

With a declared no-first use nuclear doctrine, India urgently requires the capability to fire nuclear-tipped SLBMs for secure and effective second-strike capabilities.

Incidentally, production facilities at Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Limited have been enhanced for manufacturing at least three dozen Prithvi missiles every year.

I'm a bit lost here : is this yet another cruise missile, after Klub and Brahmos ? How many cruise missiles are you developing ???

cheeres

[ajaybhutani]

I'm a bit lost here : is this yet another cruise missile, after Klub and Brahmos ? How many cruise missiles are you developing ???

cheeres
prithvi is not a cruise missile.. its a ballistic one

[aaaditya]

I didn't know about the MCM competition in India ! Thanks for the news.
The Cavour can embark MBTs up to 60tonnes from a ramp on its port side below the superstructure ; the hangar can carry vehicles and material for 600 Marines approx. However I wouldn't really call it a LPD because it doesn't have a floodable well dock for LCACs, LCUs, etc. At one time this capability was considered, but rejected.

cheers

by the way do you have any information on the mcmv's used by the italian navy or any future mcmv projects of italian navy,iam realy interested in getting their specifications and their intended roles,their weapon systems and range and speed ,any website you can recommend besides naval-technology would be very helpfull.

[aaaditya]

I'm a bit lost here : is this yet another cruise missile, after Klub and Brahmos ? How many cruise missiles are you developing ???

cheeres

dhanush is the solid fuelled version of the prithvi missile,earlier there were two variants of prithvi missiles the prithvi ss150(range 150kms ,1000 warhead) and prithvi ss250(range 250kms,500kg warhead),both these variants were liquid fuelled and hence very cumbersome and not suitable for naval use,hence prithvi ss350 (named as dhanush which means bow) was developed having a range of 350kms while carrying a 750-1000 kgs warhead,being solid fuelled it is highly mobile and versatile and can be used by the army,navy and the airforce.the k-15 is expected to be a variant of prithvi having a range of 1000kms while carrying a 1000 kgs warhead and is expected to be an early generation submarine launched ballistic missile.

[contedicavour]

by the way do you have any information on the mcmv's used by the italian navy or any future mcmv projects of italian navy,iam realy interested in getting their specifications and their intended roles,their weapon systems and range and speed ,any website you can recommend besides naval-technology would be very helpfull.

Well the Italian navy site has a lot of information, but unfortunately no translation in English. You will however find design and specifications.

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/cacciamine.htm

Tonnage: 503 t.pc. (I serie); 672 t.pc. (II serie)
Dimensions: 49,9 x 9,6 x 2,6 (4,2) m (I serie);
52,5 x 9,6 x 2,6 (4,2) m (II serie)
Personnel: 4 + 43
Engines : 1 D Grandi Motori Trieste BL-230.8M; 3 D (for minehunting) Isotta Fraschini ID-36-SS6V; (1 electrical)
Power: 1.985 HP (1.460 kW)
Speed : 14 kn; 6 kn (in minehunting)
Autonomy: 2.500 miles / 12 kn
Weapons: 1 ÷ 2-20/70 mm or 2-25/90 mm

The hull is made of reinforced synthetic glass fiber, with max 12 cm thick so as to enhance resistance to underwater explosions. The diesel engine is suspended in a special system independent of the hull itself, while auxiliary power is above water to reduce acoustic and magnetic readings. Engines and systems are de-magnetized and isolated acoustically. The whole engine and propulsion system is designed for silent propulsion with no vibrations. There are 3 auxiliary propellers to manoeuvre in silence in any direction.
Equipment includes Motorola MRS III/GPS, tracking radar Datamat SSN-714, search & underwater hunting sonars for sweeping & hunting plus hunting drones Pluto and MIN Mk2.
So far, this class has been sold to USN (12), Australia (6), Malaysia (4), Thailand (2), Nigeria (2). Besides the 12 in Italian service.

cheers

[contedicavour]

dhanush is the solid fuelled version of the prithvi missile,earlier there were two variants of prithvi missiles the prithvi ss150(range 150kms ,1000 warhead) and prithvi ss250(range 250kms,500kg warhead),both these variants were liquid fuelled and hence very cumbersome and not suitable for naval use,hence prithvi ss350 (named as dhanush which means bow) was developed having a range of 350kms while carrying a 750-1000 kgs warhead,being solid fuelled it is highly mobile and versatile and can be used by the army,navy and the airforce.the k-15 is expected to be a variant of prithvi having a range of 1000kms while carrying a 1000 kgs warhead and is expected to be an early generation submarine launched ballistic missile.

Thks for the explanations. Other than for nuclear warheads, what use would the K15 have that Brahmos does not fulfill already ? What sort of satellite guidance the Indian Navy has to guide missiles beyond the range of embarked helos/aircrafts ?

cheers

[kams]

Thks for the explanations. Other than for nuclear warheads, what use would the K15 have that Brahmos does not fulfill already ? What sort of satellite guidance the Indian Navy has to guide missiles beyond the range of embarked helos/aircrafts ?

cheers

GLONAS, GPS?

[contedicavour]

GLONAS, GPS?

You know that GPS can be shut down anytime by the US ; especially if the missile has a nuclear warhead :( ) , that's why I'd rely more on national satellite (or Galileo alternative to GPS). What is Glonas ?

cheers

[kams]

You know that GPS can be shut down anytime by the US ; especially if the missile has a nuclear warhead :( ) , that's why I'd rely more on national satellite (or Galileo alternative to GPS). What is Glonas ?

cheers

Russian equivalent of GPS;) . here is the link

GLONAS (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/gps-05zzzzzg.html)

By the way these are Ballistic missiles, why do you need terminal guidence? especially with a nuclear Tip? Do ballistic missiles have that kind of guidence?

[contedicavour]

Russian equivalent of GPS;) . here is the link

GLONAS (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/gps-05zzzzzg.html)

By the way these are Ballistic missiles, why do you need terminal guidence? especially with a nuclear Tip? Do ballistic missiles have that kind of guidence?

Thanks for the link, I'll go develop my culture on this Russian GPS :)

You are right ballistic missiles launched against a large enough target that can't move don't need guidance.
Though unless you are using them for nuclear warheads, they are easier to intercept (not least because you can guess the trajectory against a high priority target), impossible to manoeuvre while in flight, not usable against ships (unless you are attacking a harbour)...
If I were an admiral, I would be happy with my Brahmos/Yakhont Onyx and leave the cumbersome IRBMs to somebody else ;)

cheers

[kams]

OOps was not thinking this through when I wrote about terminal guidence in Ballistic missile. Prothvi does have terminal guidence as its trajectory is not purely ballistic. Terminal guidence is GPS, Glonas, Radar Scene correlation (?). Here is the link to Bharat Rakshak's Prothvi site.

Prithvi (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Prithvi.html)

[aaaditya]

Well the Italian navy site has a lot of information, but unfortunately no translation in English. You will however find design and specifications.

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/cacciamine.htm

Tonnage: 503 t.pc. (I serie); 672 t.pc. (II serie)
Dimensions: 49,9 x 9,6 x 2,6 (4,2) m (I serie);
52,5 x 9,6 x 2,6 (4,2) m (II serie)
Personnel: 4 + 43
Engines : 1 D Grandi Motori Trieste BL-230.8M; 3 D (for minehunting) Isotta Fraschini ID-36-SS6V; (1 electrical)
Power: 1.985 HP (1.460 kW)
Speed : 14 kn; 6 kn (in minehunting)
Autonomy: 2.500 miles / 12 kn
Weapons: 1 ÷ 2-20/70 mm or 2-25/90 mm

The hull is made of reinforced synthetic glass fiber, with max 12 cm thick so as to enhance resistance to underwater explosions. The diesel engine is suspended in a special system independent of the hull itself, while auxiliary power is above water to reduce acoustic and magnetic readings. Engines and systems are de-magnetized and isolated acoustically. The whole engine and propulsion system is designed for silent propulsion with no vibrations. There are 3 auxiliary propellers to manoeuvre in silence in any direction.
Equipment includes Motorola MRS III/GPS, tracking radar Datamat SSN-714, search & underwater hunting sonars for sweeping & hunting plus hunting drones Pluto and MIN Mk2.
So far, this class has been sold to USN (12), Australia (6), Malaysia (4), Thailand (2), Nigeria (2). Besides the 12 in Italian service.

cheers

thanks buddy,i believe you have just described the lerici class,also known as gaeta and huon,and mahamiru.

by the way do you know what is its weapons fitment?

[aaaditya]

Thanks for the link, I'll go develop my culture on this Russian GPS :)

You are right ballistic missiles launched against a large enough target that can't move don't need guidance.
Though unless you are using them for nuclear warheads, they are easier to intercept (not least because you can guess the trajectory against a high priority target), impossible to manoeuvre while in flight, not usable against ships (unless you are attacking a harbour)...
If I were an admiral, I would be happy with my Brahmos/Yakhont Onyx and leave the cumbersome IRBMs to somebody else ;)

cheers

i believe that the ballistic missiles are useless against the ships or moving targets,but they are extremly usefull against land based targets ,because of the warhead that they can carry(in terms of weight).

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is some good news ,seems that the atv nuclear submarine's reactor is ready ,just check out the latest article in jane's defence weekly.

i dont have the link,but i will try to post the article from another website,it gives pretty detailed information about the atv project.

Indian SSN reactor fully online

Rahul Bedi JDW Correspondent
New Delhi

Indian defence and atomic scientists claim to have successfully developed the reactor for the country's long-delayed nuclear-powered Advanced Technology Vessel ( ATV) submarine (SSN) programme.

The 100 MWe reactor - developed jointly by the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the navy - went critical at Kalpakkam in southern India in October 2004, but official sources say that it is now "fully operational".

A miniaturised version is now under construction for integration with the ATV, which is being built at Visakhapatnam on the east coast.

The ATV is based on the Soviet-era Type 670A Skat (NATO designation 'Charlie' class) design - following experience gained during three years leasing a Russian Skat from 1988 - and is expected to be launched in 2007. The 124 m-long, 4,000 ton boat will then proceed to sea trials scheduled for 2009-10 over a decade behind schedule. India has consistently denied any knowledge of the ATV ever since the programme began in 1976: two years after the country conducted its first underground atomic test. However, more recently, senior officials have tacitly acknowledged its existence.

In July, Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee inspected the ATV's reactor project while participating in the 20th anniversary celebrations of the commissioning of the fast breeder test reactor at Kalpakkam.

Sources told Jane's that the Prototype Testing Centre at the Kalpakkam facility will be used to test the submarines turbine's and propellers, while a similar facility at Visakhapatnam will run trials on its main turbines and gear box. Officials familiar with the ATV project said the highly enriched uranium fuel for the reactor had been supplied by the Rare Materials Project (RMP) near Mysore in southern India.

The officials added that a four- to five-year delay in the reactor reaching criticality was due to the extended time taken by the RMP to produce an adequate quantity of uranium.

While many components of the reactor - including the steam-generator and the control rod mechanism - were fabricated domestically, senior navy sources said Moscow had reportedly helped Indian scientists overcome technical hurdles.

They assert that the assistance included not only designing the ATV's reactor but also providing 'guidelines' in eventually mating it with the SSN's hull, though officials from both sides formally deny the collaboration.

In 2001, the involvement of Mumbai-based private defence contractors Larsen & Toubro (L&T) in western India helped kick-start the stalled ATV project.

L&T was awarded the contract to build the SSN's hull (code named P 4102 ) at its Hazira dockyard facility in western Gujarat state, 350 km north of Mumbai and has already floated sections of it on a barge to Visakhapatnam.

[aaaditya]

hey guys can anyone explain the concept of a reactor to core design.

i believe that most modern nuclear submarines use reactors of this design,which need to be fuelled with high enriched uranium only once during their lifetime,thus reducing the need for costly maintainence and fuelling of the submarine's reactor,seems that this reactor requires 90-95% high enriched uranium.

[Aussie Digger]

thanks buddy,i believe you have just described the lerici class,also known as gaeta and huon,and mahamiru.

by the way do you know what is its weapons fitment?

The Australian Huon Class Minehunters which is a modified version of the Gaeta Class, are fitted with a 30mm cannon fitted with a remotely operated turret and advanced EO/IR targetting system and 2x 0.50cal HMG's, plus small arms etc.

They also each use 2x "Double Eagle" underwater mine disposal vehicles and a range of underwater explosive charges for mine disposal. They can also accomodate "clearance diving teams" for extended periods to allow for greater flexibility in mine clearance ops...

[aaaditya]

The Australian Huon Class Minehunters which is a modified version of the Gaeta Class, are fitted with a 30mm cannon fitted with a remotely operated turret and advanced EO/IR targetting system and 2x 0.50cal HMG's, plus small arms etc.

They also each use 2x "Double Eagle" underwater mine disposal vehicles and a range of underwater explosive charges for mine disposal. They can also accomodate "clearance diving teams" for extended periods to allow for greater flexibility in mine clearance ops...

thanks aussie.

one more question for you:

1)upto what depth can the mines be cleared using the mine disposal vehicles?

[Aussie Digger]

thanks aussie.

one more question for you:

1)upto what depth can the mines be cleared using the mine disposal vehicles?

Up to about 500m's according to the SAAB website( http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/ShowProduct.aspx?ProductCategoryId=269&ProductGroupId=369&ProductId=655) (I believe though the Huon sonar system can apparently detect mines at greater than 1000m's. I don't suppose RAN is very keen on providing "exact" distances for this sort of thing...

the way they dispose of mines is by carrying a remote charge linked via a fibre optic cable. Once the mine is located, the "ROV" (remote operated vehicle) deploys the "disposable charge" to within cm's of the mine and the ROV is recovered. The charge is then detonated via the fibre optic link from a safe distance...

A video of the system can be found at that website, though it's a bit on the tedious side...

[aaaditya]

Up to about 500m's according to the SAAB website( http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/ShowProduct.aspx?ProductCategoryId=269&ProductGroupId=369&ProductId=655) (I believe though the Huon sonar system can apparently detect mines at greater than 1000m's. I don't suppose RAN is very keen on providing "exact" distances for this sort of thing...

the way they dispose of mines is by carrying a remote charge linked via a fibre optic cable. Once the mine is located, the "ROV" (remote operated vehicle) deploys the "disposable charge" to within cm's of the mine and the ROV is recovered. The charge is then detonated via the fibre optic link from a safe distance...

A video of the system can be found at that website, though it's a bit on the tedious side...

thanks very much.

i believe india will go for a similiar version,i believe the spanish segura is also in running for this order.

[contedicavour]

thanks buddy,i believe you have just described the lerici class,also known as gaeta and huon,and mahamiru.

by the way do you know what is its weapons fitment?

Anything from 12.7mm to 40/70mm guns guided by Dardo-E illuminators. You can also add MANPADS aft for Stinger or Mistral.

cheers

[aaaditya]

hey guys vice admiral sureesh mehta is to be the new naval chief.

here check out this link:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20457

Vice Admiral Sureesh Mehta has been appointed as the next Chief of the Naval Staff. Admiral Mehta will take over from Admiral Arun Prakash, who retires on 31 October 2006.

Promoted to Rear Admiral in 1995, he served as Flag Officer Goa Area, Assistant Controller Carrier Projects and Assistant Chief of Personnel. He commanded the Western Fleet, the ‘sword arm’ of the Indian Navy, during Operation Parakram. In the rank of Vice Admiral, his prestigious appointments include the Chief of Personnel, DG Coast Guard and Deputy Chief of Naval Staff at Naval Headquarters. He is currently the Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Eastern Naval Command at Visakhapatnam.

The Admiral assumed command of the premier Eastern Naval Command of the Indian Navy on 30 Sep 05. During his tenure, the Eastern Naval Command (ENC) has been involved in numerous operational missions in the Bay of Bengal and South East Asia. Also, the first ever President’s Fleet Review on the Eastern Sea Board was held in Feb 06, which saw the participation of over 66 ships and 50 aircraft of the combined Indian Fleet.

. The Admiral was born on 18 Aug 1947. He is an alumnus of the National Defence Academy and was commissioned in the Indian Navy in July 1967. He is an aviator of the ‘old mould’, having joined the Fleet Air Arm early and has extensively operated from our earlier aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, flying conventional jets, the Sea Hawk aircraft.The Flag Officer is a graduate of the prestigious Defence Services Staff College, Wellington, and the National Defence College, New Delhi. His earlier important afloat and ashore appointments include the command of the frigates INS Beas and INS Godavari as also the premier Naval Air Station – INS Garuda.

The Admiral was awarded the ‘Ati Vishist Seva Medal’ in 1995 and ‘Param Vishist Seva Medal’ in 2005 for his exceptional meritorious services.

[aaaditya]

hey guys vice admiral rustam faramroze contractor is to be the new irector general of the indian coast guard.he seems to be good enough to be the head of the navy,poor guy must be feeling aggreived at being given the coast guard when he deserved something much better.

here check out this link:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20447

Vice Admiral Rustom Faramroze Contractor has taken over as new Director General of Coast Guard.

Vice Admiral Contractor was commissioned in the Indian Navy on July 01, 1971. He hails from Nagpur in Maharashtra where he did his schooling at the St. Francis De’sales High School and thereafter joined the National Defence Academy, Kharakvasla, Pune.

Vice Admiral Contractor, a specialist in Navigation and Direction has held various important operational and staff appointments both afloat and ashore. He was the Commanding Officer of the first Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV), INS Sukanya, which he commissioned in South Korea. He has held the rare distinction of Commanding INS Rajput and INS Ranvijay as also the Command of the navy’s aircraft carrier, INS Virat. Vice Admiral Contractor has also had the privilege of commanding the prestigious Western Fleet of the Indian Navy.

He has held important and challenging shore appointments such as the Commanding Officer INS Jarawa & Naval Officer-in-Charge, Port Blair, Commanding Officer INS Mandovi and Commandant, Naval Academy, Goa, Chief Staff Officer (Operations) at the Headquarters, Eastern Naval Command, Vishakhapatnam, Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Information Warfare and Operations) at Naval Headquarters, New Delhi and Chief of Staff at the Headquarters, Southern Naval Command, Kochi. Prior to his present appointment he was the Assistant Controller of Carrier Projects at Naval Headquarters, New Delhi.

He is an alumnus of the College of Naval Warfare, Mumbai and the Royal College of Defence Studies at London, UK. He is a recipient of Ati Vishisht Seva Medal and Nao Sena Medal (Devotion to Duty) awarded by the President of India.

[aaaditya]

hey guys check out this article ,about the problems facing the new naval chief.pay attention to page 2 which clearly mentions that 33 warships are currently under construction and another 30 may be built.

here check out this link:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1948998.cms

NEW DELHI: When vice-admiral Sureesh Mehta takes over as the new Navy chief on November 1, his topmost priority would be to "consolidate" his force's rapidly-transforming role from being just "a silent service" to a potent maritime power acting as "a stabilising force" in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

Though reported much earlier by TOI, the government on Friday formally announced that Mehta, at present chief of the Visakhapatnam-based Eastern Naval Command, would take over from admiral Arun Prakash when he retires on October 31.

Mehta would take over at a time when the Navy, though much smaller than Army and IAF, has emerged as the most "visible" symbol of India's growing military might in recent years. The role played by it as a diplomatic instrument to further the country's geostrategic objectives came through when it escorted American ships through Malacca Straits in 2002, rapidly deployed warships to help neighbouring countries during the killer tsunami in 2004, or even evacuated Indian nationals from war-torn Lebanon recently.

Though the foundation for this was laid by admirals Madhvendra Singh and Arun Prakash, Mehta will have to make it a major thrust area. Mehta, who will serve till August 2009, will of course have to ensure force-levels do not fall below the present 130 warships and 16 submarines.

Experts say India's resurgence as an economic power depends to a large extent on peace being maintained in IOR. "Apart from optimum utilisation of available warships and networking of weapon and sensor capabilities, he will have to convince the government for long-term committed budgetary support," said one.

While the Rs 18,798-crore project to build six Scorpene submarines at Mazagon Docks between 2012 and 2017 has now kicked off, Navy also has as many as 33 warships "under production or order" from indigenous or foreign shipyards. These include three more Talwar-class "stealth" frigates, the indigenous air defence ship and the refurbished Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier.

Not only will Mehta have to ensure all these projects progress smoothly, he will also have to get the government's firm support for another 30 warships after these 33. This is necessary since over 70 existing warships will have to be gradually replaced in the coming 10-15 years.

Another thrust area would have to be the induction of nuclear submarines and submarine-launched ballistic missile capability, which are needed for effective and secure "second-strike capabilities".

As someone from the naval aviation wing, Mehta should also take a hard look at Navy's rather thin fleet of Long-Range Maritime Patrol (LRMP) aircraft despite India having a 7,516-km coastline, 1,197 islands and a 2.01 million sq km exclusive economic zone. At present, Navy has only three IL-38s, recently upgraded with the multi-functional "Sea Dragon mission suite", and eight aging Tupolev-142Ms, apart from a small fleet of Dorniers and Israeli UAVs for medium-level snooping missions.

Though the acquisition process for eight LRMP aircraft has been now initiated, the process needs to be fast-tracked so that deliveries can commence before this decade ends. Pakistan, of course, is on course to induct P-3C Orions from the US.

[kams]

Intrestingly, Admiral Suresh Mehta like his predecessor is a naval aviator. In a recent interview he said for the next 20 years 35% of Naval Budget will be dedicated to expanding the Naval air arm. This will be a big boost to naval air arm. He is also stressing on IN's interaction with neighbours in South East Asian region.

Indian Navy should interact with neighbours: Navy Chief (http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?rep=2&aid=320226&sid=NAT)

[Reichsleiter]

An American constructed amphibious vessel is going to join the Indian Naval fleet shortly. The American warship, USS Trenton, is a multi-purpose vessel which can be used for disaster and relief operations. The ship can also be used as a platform for command and control during mishaps at sea, offshore oil installation fires and maritime air accidents. Second only in size to INS Viraat, the 28,000-tonne aircraft carrier, the Landing Platform Dock (LPD) USS Trenton is a 16,560-ton vessel, which can accommodate four medium lift helicopters or a combination of two light helicopters and two Harrier jump jets. The 35-year old vessel is armed with two 25 mm chain guns and eight 50- calibre machine guns. Its 24,000 shaft horsepower gives it a top speed of 21 knots. The Indian Navy is also negotiating for six SH-3 Sea King helicopters to operate from the 173-metre long Trenton. The package has been negotiated at a cost of US$ 48.23289 million which include four Landing Craft Mechanised (LCMs) besides the Landing Platform Dock.

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=318022&sid=NAT&ssid=

[Big-E]

Trenton is really going to magnify IN's amphibous lift capability. My concern is her age and her size. She is 35 years old, has run into a submarine, and had catastrophic engine failure causing a dozen casualties. The nearest size amphib is a Magyar at 3,600 tons... Trenton is over 16,000. The only other thing in that bracket is Viraat. The structural damage when she ran into the Jack is deep into the hull, at the time it wasn't a problem but it might be in her old age. I only see 10 years of operation before she needs to be scrapped... more like 5.:o

[aaaditya]

Trenton is really going to magnify IN's amphibous lift capability. My concern is her age and her size. She is 35 years old, has run into a submarine, and had catastrophic engine failure causing a dozen casualties. The nearest size amphib is a Magyar at 3,600 tons... Trenton is over 16,000. The only other thing in that bracket is Viraat. The structural damage when she ran into the Jack is deep into the hull, at the time it wasn't a problem but it might be in her old age. I only see 10 years of operation before she needs to be scrapped... more like 5.:o

what about gorshkov ,it has sufferd from boiler room fires and explosion,what about ins delhi which suffered accidents before induction,what about ins tabar the latest russian project 1135.6 krivack class of stealth frigate which collided with merchant tanker and had a deep and long fracture on its sides,all these vessels have suffered and yet have been brought back to life.
that is one great thing about naval ships and submarines ,they might have been sunk and resurrected and yet have successfull and long carriers if they are fully upgraded and properly maintained.

besides i believe the trenton will be used for training,command control and as a hospital ship ,disaster management vessel,indian navy is already conducting exploratory talks with grse-kolkatta for the manufacture of lpd's,which i believe will form the bulk of indian navy's amphibious sea lift capability.

[Big-E]

what about gorshkov ,it has sufferd from boiler room fires and explosion,what about ins delhi which suffered accidents before induction,what about ins tabar the latest russian project 1135.6 krivack class of stealth frigate which collided with merchant tanker and had a deep and long fracture on its sides,all these vessels have suffered and yet have been brought back to life.
that is one great thing about naval ships and submarines ,they might have been sunk and resurrected and yet have successfull and long carriers if they are fully upgraded and properly maintained.

besides i believe the trenton will be used for training,command control and as a hospital ship ,disaster management vessel,indian navy is already conducting exploratory talks with grse-kolkatta for the manufacture of lpd's,which i believe will form the bulk of indian navy's amphibious sea lift capability.

All the vessels you listed aren't nearly as old as Trenton, that was only one of 3 points, the others being structurally damaged and size. Gorshkov is a necessity IMO. IN can't wait for the first ADS so they have to buy it. It isn't that old but America does take better care of her ships. My thing is the age really, I can't see why they couldn't wait to make their own NEW LPD.

[swerve]

Trenton is really going to magnify IN's amphibous lift capability. My concern is her age and her size. She is 35 years old, has run into a submarine, and had catastrophic engine failure causing a dozen casualties. The nearest size amphib is a Magyar at 3,600 tons... Trenton is over 16,000. The only other thing in that bracket is Viraat. The structural damage when she ran into the Jack is deep into the hull, at the time it wasn't a problem but it might be in her old age. I only see 10 years of operation before she needs to be scrapped... more like 5.:o

The head of the Indian navy has said that they plan to build 3 large LPDs in the next naval construction plan, so it looks as if Trenton isn't planned to serve more than your 10 year limit. Probably best seen as a quick fix, & a way to get experience with big LPDs.

BTW, the Indian LSTs are based on the old British Round Tables. They're a bit larger than you say, 5600 tons, not 3600. They're building 3 new ones, Shardul-class. Basically a modernised version of the Magars. All launched now. The Magars aren't exactly ancient - 1987 & 1997 - so they're good for quite a while longer.

[aaaditya]

All the vessels you listed aren't nearly as old as Trenton, that was only one of 3 points, the others being structurally damaged and size. Gorshkov is a necessity IMO. IN can't wait for the first ADS so they have to buy it. It isn't that old but America does take better care of her ships. My thing is the age really, I can't see why they couldn't wait to make their own NEW LPD.

age of the ship is irrelevant as long as the technology is frequently upgraded and a proper periodical maintainence schedule and procedure is followed.

take for example the iowa class of battleships with the us navy used during the 90's gulf war.

[Big-E]

age of the ship is irrelevant as long as the technology is frequently upgraded and a proper periodical maintainence schedule and procedure is followed.

take for example the iowa class of battleships with the us navy used during the 90's gulf war.

Actually the age of the ship is relevant to it's size. The larger the ship the longer it's life span. The lifespan of the 60,000 ton Iowa is about 50 years. The life span of a ship 4 times smaller is signifigantly less, about 40 years. Trenton only has 5 years of life left of cost worthy maintenance. After that she will be a rupee flushing toilet... swish swish. Why do you think we got rid of her?

[kams]

Actually the age of the ship is relevant to it's size. The larger the ship the longer it's life span. The lifespan of the 60,000 ton Iowa is about 50 years. The life span of a ship 4 times smaller is signifigantly less, about 40 years. Trenton only has 5 years of life left of cost worthy maintenance. After that she will be a rupee flushing toilet... swish swish. Why do you think we got rid of her?
Only reason IN acquired Trenton is to gain experience in operating LPD's. Maintaining Trenton is going to be one big headache. I read that deal includes 5 years spares. As for developing indigenous LPD's, Indian shipyards are overbooked with orders for next 10 years or so. Unless some big pvt. players (Like L&T) venture big time in to ship building, it's gonna take a while to get those LPD's.

[Big-E]

Only reason IN acquired Trenton is to gain experience in operating LSD's. Maintaining Trenton is going to be one big headache. I read that deal includes 5 years spares.

Yeah, at least IN is going to get SOME kind of use out of her. It's better than the useless proposition of Pakistan getting the Fletcher.:p:

[isthvan]

It looks that ex. USN Austin’s are becoming quite popular… Mexican navy is getting two of them…

Actually Indian navy could get some more life out of them since operational tempo in Indian navy isn’t no were near to USN… And while old they can still be useful and I understand why India decided to by this ship…

On other hand I can’t understand what will Mexico do whit two Austin class ships?

[kams]

India, Germany sign defence agreement
(http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1788866,00050003.htm)

Paving way for bilateral strategic and security cooperation, India and Germany have signed their first-ever defence pact encompassing joint training, technology transfers and co-production of hi-tech military hardware.

The Indo-German Defence Cooperation agreement, which would help New Delhi broadbase its military equipment suppliers to make arms purchases more competitive, was signed late on Wednesday night by Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee and his German Counterpart Franz Josef Jung.

Though both the leaders refused to elaborate what areas of defence the agreement was aimed at, Jung said it would mostly cover exchange of cooperation in the field of Navy and in electronic and sureviellance systems, in which Germany recently had made big breakthroughs.
German defence industries are keen on participating in major Indian defence projects as they feel Berlin is being left out in the race for Indian defence markets by countries like France and Britain.

Germany is also keen to tap Indian expertise in counter terrorism operations, as recently the German army is being deployed overseas in such operations.


Mukherjee on Thursday addressed Chief Executives of major German Defence industries including from HDW, Rheinmetall and European consortium EADS, where he made strong plea for German industries to invest in the Indian defence sector.

Hmmm Stressing on Navy, Electronic and sureviellance systems. Intrestingly, IN is looking to establish a second submarine building line. Rumors of Russian Amur class have been floating around for a while. This may give HDW another chance.

[contedicavour]

what about gorshkov ,it has sufferd from boiler room fires and explosion,what about ins delhi which suffered accidents before induction,what about ins tabar the latest russian project 1135.6 krivack class of stealth frigate which collided with merchant tanker and had a deep and long fracture on its sides,all these vessels have suffered and yet have been brought back to life.
that is one great thing about naval ships and submarines ,they might have been sunk and resurrected and yet have successfull and long carriers if they are fully upgraded and properly maintained.

besides i believe the trenton will be used for training,command control and as a hospital ship ,disaster management vessel,indian navy is already conducting exploratory talks with grse-kolkatta for the manufacture of lpd's,which i believe will form the bulk of indian navy's amphibious sea lift capability.

My oh my how could the IN tolerate such big accidents on 2 of its most modern and important ships, a Delhi and a Talwar ???
Regarding Gorshkov it has suffered so many accidents aboard I hope the IN has made sure the Russians patch her up properly, besides extending the flight deck and taking out obsolescent Sandbox SSMs...

cheers

[contedicavour]

It looks that ex. USN Austin’s are becoming quite popular… Mexican navy is getting two of them…

Actually Indian navy could get some more life out of them since operational tempo in Indian navy isn’t no were near to USN… And while old they can still be useful and I understand why India decided to by this ship…

On other hand I can’t understand what will Mexico do whit two Austin class ships?

Well the Mexicans must be beefing up their Marines corps... though outside of humanitarian missions in Latin America, I don't see any useful use for such big LPDs. Priority should be to replace the obsolete Bronstein and Knox FFs, not to mention the remaining WW2 vintage DDs...

cheers

[aaaditya]

My oh my how could the IN tolerate such big accidents on 2 of its most modern and important ships, a Delhi and a Talwar ???
Regarding Gorshkov it has suffered so many accidents aboard I hope the IN has made sure the Russians patch her up properly, besides extending the flight deck and taking out obsolescent Sandbox SSMs...

cheers

the acccident on delhi occured several years back(even before the ship was commissioned,which was nearly a decade back).

as regarding the talwar ,the captain of the ship was dismissed from service,but the damage was repaired and i believe the ship is back in service.

[aaaditya]

India, Germany sign defence agreement
(http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1788866,00050003.htm)






Hmmm Stressing on Navy, Electronic and sureviellance systems. Intrestingly, IN is looking to establish a second submarine building line. Rumors of Russian Amur class have been floating around for a while. This may give HDW another chance.

i wonder if we will see the german u214 as the second submarine line(to be maintained by the larsen and toubro) for the indian navy,u214 lost to scorpene because it was a product offered by a backlisted company (the ban has however been lifted),i believe the u214 acquisition would make a lot of sense ,since india already operates 4 type209 german submarine which can also be upgraded to atleast type212 standard with german assistance as part of an offset deal for the procurement of the u214.

india is no longer interested in russian amur but is now interested in the russo-italian version of the amur.

[aaaditya]

Only reason IN acquired Trenton is to gain experience in operating LPD's. Maintaining Trenton is going to be one big headache. I read that deal includes 5 years spares. As for developing indigenous LPD's, Indian shipyards are overbooked with orders for next 10 years or so. Unless some big pvt. players (Like L&T) venture big time in to ship building, it's gonna take a while to get those LPD's.

grsl-kolkatta is currently exploring the possibility of developing a lhd based on the french mistral design,also larsen and toubro has recently set up a shipyard(and has already won export orders worth several 100 million dollars),one of the stated purpose of this shipyard is to manufacture vessles for the indian navy,this shipyard utilizes the dutch ro-ro technology and builds ro-ro vessels.

also 3 new shipyards are coming up ,these shipyards expeted to be fully ready in another 3 years are being set up by private players and hope to take a considerable slice of naval shipbuiding pie.

[powerslavenegi]

i wonder if we will see the german u214 as the second submarine line(to be maintained by the larsen and toubro) for the indian navy,u214 lost to scorpene because it was a product offered by a backlisted company (the ban has however been lifted),i believe the u214 acquisition would make a lot of sense ,since india already operates 4 type209 german submarine which can also be upgraded to atleast type212 standard with german assistance as part of an offset deal for the procurement of the u214.

india is no longer interested in russian amur but is now interested in the russo-italian version of the amur.Sigh.........I wish what you said was true however AFAIK IN only intends to have a MLU to 4 of it's U209's(for we would have to maintain our Sub fleet until ATV and all 6 Scorpios are operational) .u214 aint a possibilty for IN raised apprehensions about safety of it's AIP system(based on fuel cells).In my opinion if we compare the cost and the total platform capability customised Scorpene measures upto the U 214.Moreover GOI always prefers deals where Transfer od Technology is a part of the deal(Hence Scorpene was chosen)

[swerve]

grsl-kolkatta is currently exploring the possibility of developing a lhd based on the french mistral design,also larsen and toubro has recently set up a shipyard(and has already won export orders worth several 100 million dollars),one of the stated purpose of this shipyard is to manufacture vessles for the indian navy,this shipyard utilizes the dutch ro-ro technology and builds ro-ro vessels.

also 3 new shipyards are coming up ,these shipyards expeted to be fully ready in another 3 years are being set up by private players and hope to take a considerable slice of naval shipbuiding pie.

Aaditya,

where are the Larsen & Toubro & the 3 other new shipyards?

[aaaditya]

Sigh.........I wish what you said was true however AFAIK IN only intends to have a MLU to 4 of it's U209's(for we would have to maintain our Sub fleet until ATV and all 6 Scorpios are operational) .u214 aint a possibilty for IN raised apprehensions about safety of it's AIP system(based on fuel cells).In my opinion if we compare the cost and the total platform capability customised Scorpene measures upto the U 214.Moreover GOI always prefers deals where Transfer od Technology is a part of the deal(Hence Scorpene was chosen)

the russo-italian amur is based on the same aip technology as the u214 and despite that india has expressed interest in it.,actually germans are masters at tot,south korea is an example of the country using german technology.germany also offered india technology for the licenced manufacture of the hdw type209 but india wasted it.

germany was also offering india a customised version of the u214 equipped with scalp navale cruise missiles and surface to air missiles.

also i believe pem fuel cells(poly-electro membrane) are considerably safe(at least as compared to mesma which is to be used from the 6th scorpene onwards and which utilises the liquid oxeygen).

[aaaditya]

Aaditya,

where are the Larsen & Toubro & the 3 other new shipyards?

larsen and toubro facility is based at hazira,while the other 3 are on the west coast ,i will try to post more details on them.

[kams]

Ship building industry in general is having a boom time worlwide, with all major shipyards completely book till 2009. In India L&T, Adani Group and Pawan Kumar Ruia Group are planning to enter Ship Building in a big way. L&T already has orders for 4 ships from Netherlands which will be built in it's Hazira plant. They are actively looking for a new deep water facility, and Kakinada (Andhra Pradesh - East coast) may be chosen.

Pawan Kumar Ruia group has applied to West Bengal Govt for 1500 acres of land (near Kolkatta). Adani group has plans for new shipyard, investing close to Rs 1500 crore.

Apart from these new players, existing shipyards are expanding their capacity. Bharati Shipyard is building its fourth shipyard in Mangalore (west coast). ABG shipyard is setting up a new one in Dahej.

Intrestingly L&T is already booked with orders even before their shipyard is fully operational.

[kams]

Sigh.........I wish what you said was true however AFAIK IN only intends to have a MLU to 4 of it's U209's(for we would have to maintain our Sub fleet until ATV and all 6 Scorpios are operational) .u214 aint a possibilty for IN raised apprehensions about safety of it's AIP system(based on fuel cells).In my opinion if we compare the cost and the total platform capability customised Scorpene measures upto the U 214.Moreover GOI always prefers deals where Transfer od Technology is a part of the deal(Hence Scorpene was chosen)


If you look in to recent press releases (regarding both French and German agreements), lot of stress has been laid on 'Joint development' or 'Co-production'. Now, I take this to mean developing customized solutions to suit both partners, not merely TOT. I think NewDelhi wants more bang for her buck;) .

Submarines: India is currently operating 16 submarines (2 Foxtrot - obselet good only for training and may be fishing;) , 4 HDW 209, 10 Kilo). By the time first of the Scorpene join IN in 2012, this will be reduced to 7. (source - ADMIRAL ARUN PRAKASH's speach in December 2005). India's 30 year naval procurement policy calls for a force level of 24 submarines (Diesel). India doen't have any option but to go for joint development and production. IN wants to have a second line of submarines (apart from Scorpene) to minimize dependency on one. Rumors suggest it may be a version of Amur being jointly developed by Italy's Fincantieri and Russia's Rubin Naval Design Bureau called S-1000. India was the first country to receive a briefing on the new submarine and rumors say is considering an Italian offer to build six boats for $3.5 billion.

However if HDW makes an attractive proposition, then who knows? The Indian submarine market is huge.

[aaaditya]

hey guys great news andhra university has signed a memorandum of understanding with drdo for carying out research and development of underwater unmanned vehicles,as well as on a nano-ceramic marine stealth coating which is claimed to reduce the ship or submarine's signature as well as increase the stealth of the hull.

here check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/09/stories/2006090920570300.htm


VISAKHAPATNAM: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) considers universities incubators of technology and is encouraging them to come out with good research projects, said distinguished scientist and Chief Controller of DRDO A. Sivathanu Pillai here on Friday.
"Any technology the DRDO is proud of is not its alone. We have seen the strength of our universities (through their research projects)," observed Dr. Pillai while addressing a meeting after the DRDO and Andhra University signed an MoU on joint research in nano technology, hydrodynamics, naval architecture, acoustics and structures.
The MoU was signed by AU Vice-Chancellor L. Venugopal Reddy and Dr. Pillai in the presence of Director of Naval Science and Technological Laboratory V. Bhujanga Rao, Director of Combat Vehicles Research and Development (Avadi) D. Sundaresan and Director of Naval R and D in DRDO Ratnakar Bhushan, Registrar of AU P. Vijaya Prakash, and others.
Major research

Andhra University too would be involved in the unmanned underwater vehicles, an important project on which DRDO was planning major research, Dr. Pillai said. To start with, the DRDO had given two projects -- development of nano ceramic coating for marine stealth application (to increase the strength of the ship and also reduce its visibility in identification by the enemy) and development of nano lithium ion batteries to Andhra University.
The MoU with Andhra University provided a lot of flexibility in sending funds meant for naval R and D. The funds could be sent directly now and the initiative must come from the university and the DRDO would certainly help in its projects, Dr. Pillai assured. Andhra University faculty could visit the DRDO labs and there was no restriction on the number of projects to be taken up.
DRDO would work with AU on the autonomous vehicles (both ground and underwater types) and set up a nano-lab in the campus.
Prof. Reddy thanked Dr. Pillai and the DRDO for evincing a keen interest in the development of AU. The M.Sc. (nano sciences) and M. Tech (nano technology) programmes were introduced with the help of DRDO. Changes suggested by representatives of DRDO had been incorporated in the syllabus of the courses and this must make the courses acceptable to the industry and academicia, he said.
Fellowships

Commodore Bhushan said that the Naval Research Board had recently announced fellowships for PG students and the Andhra University students too could take up small projects under this programme.
A senior professor of AU College of Engineering P.S.N. Raju and a scientist from DRDO Venkateswara Rao would act as coordinators for the programmes under the MoU. Principals of campus colleges R. Venkata Rao, J.V. Prabhakara Rao, several senior professors of AU, senior officials of DRDO and others were present.

[aaaditya]

hey guys another great news india's nstl has successfully developed an indigenous advanced integrated anti submarine warfare system,this system is fully integrated,modular,upgradeable and has been developed at a cost of 40million rupees while a comparable system would cost about 300 million rupees.it is claimed to be a world class product.

here check out this link:

Anti-submarine warfare system handed over to Navy

Special Correspondent
Developed by the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory Induction of the ASW equipment would help integrate indigenous weapons and decoy systems while supporting the existing inventory



VISAKHAPATNAM: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Friday handed over the integrated anti-submarine warfare (ASW) equipment to the Navy.
Chief Controller, Defence R&D, A. Sivathanu Pillai, handed over the equipment to Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Eastern Naval Command and Chief of Naval Staff designate Sureesh Mehta during a brief function on board INS Ranjit.
"The system is developed by the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL) here and is equipped with a very advanced software. It has the ability to detect enemy vessels while being underwater and also fire torpedoes or missiles," Dr. Pillai said. Induction of the ASW equipment into the Navy would pave the way for smooth integration of indigenous weapons and decoy systems, while supporting the existing the inventory held by the Navy, he said.
Vice-Admiral Sureesh Mehta inaugurated the system by powering it up. He congratulated the project team on successfully developing the system.
NSTL Director V. Bhujanga Rao said the Laboratory had developed the system at a cost of Rs.4 crores while a similar system of foreign make would cost Rs.30 crores. Project Director C.D. Malleswar said the system was modular and re-configurable with the state-of-the-art hardware and software using open architecture. Bharat Electronics Ltd. of Bangalore, which produced the system, received order from the Navy to produce two more systems. Director of Naval R&D in DRDO Ratnakar Bhushan, senior scientists of the NSTL, General Manager of BEL A.A. Mohan Ram and others were present.

[harryriedl]

india has been useing old ships for a long time such as hermes aka vikrrant and the ealier collosose class carrier which they both kept in servis for a very long time.

[aaaditya]

india has been useing old ships for a long time such as hermes aka vikrrant and the ealier collosose class carrier which they both kept in servis for a very long time.

what is a collosose carrier?i believe vikrant was the first carrier (and consequently the oldest) to be operated by the indian navy.

[swerve]

what is a collosose carrier?i believe vikrant was the first carrier (and consequently the oldest) to be operated by the indian navy.

Colossus-class. Technically, India has never had one. Vikrant was a Majestic-class carrier, originally HMS Hercules. But she was one of a group laid down as Colossus-class, building suspended when incomplete at the end of the war, & completed as Majestic-class. So he's sort of right.

Hermes was a Centaur-class, & is now Viraat.

[Sea Toby]

Well the Mexicans must be beefing up their Marines corps... though outside of humanitarian missions in Latin America, I don't see any useful use for such big LPDs. Priority should be to replace the obsolete Bronstein and Knox FFs, not to mention the remaining WW2 vintage DDs...

cheers

Like many other nations, Mexico has a number of islands off its coast, and the need for a couple of LPDs were highlighted by Hurricane Rita's wrath at Cozumel and Cancun last year. The airport control tower and the docks at Cozumel were wiped out. Obviously a couple of LPDs are of more use to their navy than a number of old American frigates.

And like a number of other Latin American nations, the Mexican navy does not have the wealth to acquire brand new frigates and LPDs. However they do have the means to buy and build new patrol vessels and OPVs to patrol their EEZs. Mexico has a history of buying a handful of used American frigates, and it appears they will continue to do so in the future.

[aaaditya]

hey guys according to an interview given by the indian naval chief in the force magazine,indian navy plans to design and develop 3 indigenous landing platform docks (heavy category) in the 11th 5 year plan.

[swerve]

hey guys according to an interview given by the indian naval chief in the force magazine,indian navy plans to design and develop 3 indigenous landing platform docks (heavy category) in the 11th 5 year plan.

See post number 460 :D

[aaaditya]

hey guys great news the 4th vessel of the bangaram class has been commissioned,this is a fast attack craft having a range of 2000kms,a high speed,excellent habitability,advanced sensors and weapons package including the crn91 gun.

here check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/13/stories/2006091313800300.htm


VISAKHAPATNAM: INS Baratang - the fourth ship of the Bangaram class of fast attack craft of Indian Navy - was commissioned at the naval base here on Tuesday.
The 46-metre 320-tonne vessel was built by Garden Reach Ship Builders and Engineers (GRSE) at a cost of Rs. 50 crores. This is the 135th ship commissioned so far for the Navy. Conceived, designed and built indigenously, the commissioning of the ship completes the induction of another glowing chapter to the nation's thrust to achieve indigenisation in the field of warship design and construction.
Weapon package

The ship which will be deployed under the operational control of the Naval Officer-in-Charge (Tamil Nadu), has its own weapon package and can be on voyage for 2,000 nautical miles without replenishment. It is fitted with the most modern and sophisticated navigational and communication equipment including radar bridge master. It has the CRN 91 close range anti surface gun with a range of five km. and a rate of fire of 500 rounds per minute. The Indian Navy's Directorate of Naval Division designed the ship.
Set for a big role

Complimenting GRSE for completing the construction of INS Baratang in a record time, Minister of State for Defence M.M. Pallamraju said the new ship would be deployed in the Palk Bay where the Navy was involved in `Operation Tasha' for more than a decade. The ship had to play an important role in coming years, he felt.
Referring to the President's Fleet Review held here in February, he said the big event had showcased the naval might to all. "It presented to the world a modern, versatile and powerful Navy, while gracefully expanding the building of bridges of friendship. This was the first time an event of such magnitude was held in the City of Destiny," he said.
Mr. Pallamraju greeted Vice-Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Naval Command on his appointment as Chief of Navy, and said "I thank Vice-Admiral Mehta and his team for bringing Vizagites close to the Navy."
Maritime surveillance

Vice-Admiral Mehta said the low draft and high speed INS Baratang would make it very versatile for seaward defence and low intensity maritime operations in shallow waters.
"These vessels offer a cost effective platform suited for a marine surveillance and rescue operations as well as for combat and have been built at competitive price of approximately Rs.50 crores per ship. GRSE Chairman and Managing Director Rear Admiral (retd.) T.S. Ganeshan, explained how they were giving thrust to improving design features, technology and productivity.

[aaaditya]

hey guys check out this great website about ins valsura indian navy's submarine warfare training school, of particular interest is the gallery in which they have the images of the latest indian sonars.

here check out this link:

http://aswschool.nic.in/

[sidewinder2006]

Hi ! Guys i saved some google earth pics of Indian Navy's assets in Mumbai port.
An impressive display I must say
Both the aircraft carriers can be seen

Sorry if posted earlier..coz I am new to this forum
regards:cool:

[aaaditya]

hey guys great news ,grse has bagged an order for 10 more fast attack crafts,these are to be a modification of the bangaram class design with water jet propulsion which will give them greater speeds.

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEA20060913042549&Page=A&Title=Southern+News+-+Andhra+Pradesh&Topic=0

GRSE chairman and managing director RN Ganesh said the GRSE developed the design for improved version of Bangaram class ships with water jet propulsion facility.

Indian Navy placed orders with the GRSE for 10 more fast attack craft with water-jets. Their construction would commence next month.

The GRSE embarked on a Rs 400 crore modernisation plan with assistance from the Navy and it was recently given Category 1 Mini Ratna status for its performance in ship building and allied activities.

[aaaditya]

hey guys another great news indian navy will induct the gorshkov class of aircraft carrier rechristened ins vikramaditya next year ,indian navy will also place an order for additional(24 to supplement the alreay ordered 16) mig29k combat aircrafts,ultimately indian navy will have atleast 300 aircrafts and helicopters of all types.

here check out this link:

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEA20060913042608

‘INS Vikramaditya to give fillip to Indian Navy’
Wednesday September 13 2006 14:47 IST
VISAKHAPATNAM: The Indian Navy’s combat capabilities will receive a major fillip when aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (formerly ‘Admiral Gorshkov’ acquired from the Russian Navy) will be inducted next year along with MiG airplanes and other facilities.

Another fully indigenous aircraft carrier is likely to be commissioned by 2011, according to Minister of State for Defence MM Pallam Raju.

Speaking to reporters after commissioning a Bangaram class fast attack craft INS Baratang, at the Naval Base here on Tuesday, Raju said that India was striving to establish friendly relations with southeast Asian countries whose strategic importance and economic resurgence were crucial for peace and stability in the region.

‘Maritime diplomacy’ with those small, but vibrant countries assumed greater significance in the context of the Look East Policy, he asserted and added that efforts were on for fleets’ modernisation with greater focus on indigenisation.

He also said that Visakhapatnam would occupy the centre-stage in the Indian Navy’s development plans for the coming decade.

As regards the expansion of the base of ENC headquarters here, Pallam Raju said that land acquisition process was in progress.

The new Naval Base requires 5,000 acres and 500 plus acres were acquired till now. Steps were taken to expedite the project.

[aaaditya]

hey guys check out this article ,it gives some information on the indian coast guard expansion plans,indian coast guard plans to acquire 3 advanced offshore patrol vessels,3 fast patrol vessels,11 interceptor crafts and many more 6 multirole aircrafts(i believe atr-72 based maritime patrol aircrafts and the falcon900ex based patrol aircrafts are being considered) and 3 chectak helicopters besides setting up new coast guard stations.

here check out this link:

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1052864

MUMBAI: The Indian Coast Guard (ICG) will soon be armed with more vessels, interceptor boats, choppers and multi-role aircraft to step up aerial and sea surveillance, as part of its efforts to make the county’s coastline more secure.

Vice Admiral R Contractor, Director General, ICG, said: “It is part of our future modernisation plans to save our coastline and for better surveillance.”

The ICG will soon induct three offshore patrol vessels (OPV), three fast-patrol vessels (FPVs), 11 interceptor boats, three Chetak helicopters and six multi-role aircrafts, he said.

Contractor’s was speaking on his first visit to the Western Region (WR) headquarters after being promoted as DG coast guard, on Wednesday.

A senior official from the ICG said that demands for the vessels, boats, choppers and aircraft had been cleared by the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

The coast guard is also planning to set up more stations at Murud Janjira, Dahanu and other parts of the WR. He added that a proposal for the allotment of land to construct an airport for ICG aircraft had been sent to the state government.

When asked about the “hotline” established between senior officials of the Indian and Pakistan coast guard for better coordination — especially on the tricky issue of arrest of fishermen — he said, “In 2005, a Memorandum of Understanding had been signed between senior officials ( of the two countries) for the hotline service, and it will soon start working effectively.”

Meanwhile, the ICG is imparting marine police training to Maharashtra police’s pilot batch of 20 personnel.

[kams]

NEW DELHI: Even as IAF fighter jets fly mock combat missions along the entire western front as part of the force's ongoing gigantic 'Gagan Shakti' exercise, the Navy too has jumped into the fray with its own combat manoeuvres along the Gujarat coastline.

Over 20 destroyers, frigates, submarines and minesweepers are taking part in the naval exercise called the 'Defence of Gujarat', which will conclude towards the end of this month after "tactical phase and weapon firing drills".

"The primary objective of this exercise, as the name suggests, is to prepare for protection of coastal assets, including oil refineries, which will be targeted by hostile forces in the event of a war," said an officer.

Among the warships undertaking combat manoeuvres are the guided-missile destroyer INS Mysore, guided-missile frigates INS Beas and INS Brahmaputra, apart from the new multi-purpose 'stealth' frigates INS Talwar, INS Tabar and INS Trishul.

Indian Navy exercise (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1996405.cms)

Thats lot of firepower involved. Lately Navy is keeping itself very busy.

[aaaditya]

i can understand the purpose behind the title of this excercise.gujarat is fast becoming the economic hub of the country,however its very close proximity to pakistan makes it extremely vulnerable at the same time offering tremendous advantages,a strong force comprising of multirole vessels and aircrafts can be this region impregnable and also provide a platform for a sea based offence.

[kams]

Navy's new base on Eastern coast (http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/17/stories/2006091708710100.htm)

Navy to have second base near Vizag

Santosh Patnaik

The futuristic base to be set up between Rambilli and Elamanchili


VISAKHAPATNAM: The Indian Navy has set in motion efforts to set up a futuristic base between Rambilli and Elamanchili mandals, about 50 km south of Visakhapatnam.

It has become imperative for the Eastern Naval Command (ENC) to have a new base as the existing channel of Visakhapatnam port shared by the Navy and the port is narrow and crowded.

The new base is of strategic importance for the ENC to expand its facilities in an exclusive enclave by deepening a natural channel to have easy access to sea. Of the 5,000 acres sought by the Ministry of Defence, the Andhra Pradesh Government has already allotted 500 acres and the remaining land will be assigned shortly. As the allotment is for the Navy, the process is being accorded topmost priority by the district administration.

Its about time ENC decided on need for new naval base. Now IN will have two major bases on west coast (New base in Karwar and existing base at Mumbai), Two on East coast and Andaman/Nicobar command.

[aaaditya]

Navy's new base on Eastern coast (http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/17/stories/2006091708710100.htm)

Navy to have second base near Vizag

Santosh Patnaik

The futuristic base to be set up between Rambilli and Elamanchili




Its about time ENC decided on need for new naval base. Now IN will have two major bases on west coast (New base in Karwar and existing base at Mumbai), Two on East coast and Andaman/Nicobar command.

you have forgotten about vishakapatinam,which is as of now the head quarters of the eastern naval command ,andaman and nicobar is not a pure naval command but is a joint forces command for all the three services.

the eastern naval command i believe ha about 80 ships and submarines.

i believe this news base will prove to be comparable to the karwar.

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is the greatest reason why indian navy as well as the indian coast guard need to expand rapidly,india can lay claim to upto 2 million miles of sea terriotery in 2009 for economic exploitation.

here check out this link:

http://www.samachar.com/showurl.htm?rurl=http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1799593,0008.htm?headline=India~secretly~plans ~to~claim~undersea~riches

An Indian undersea secret has been kept so well over the past four years that even MPs who got wind of it during the monsoon session of Parliament were not allowed to ask questions.
In Delhi, discussions currently on between oceanographers and diplomats, from the new Ministry of Earth Sciences and the Ministry of External Affairs, mark the last stages of an exercise that began in 2002 with secretive ocean experiments that will eventually allow India to lay claim to vast undersea reserves of oil and minerals.
Dozens of top scientists from a clutch of national laboratories have used cutting-edge equipment — securing the first digital images of a remote undersea realm up to 8 km below the seabed in undisclosed locations — to collect data in advance of an international law that will allow a band of about 50 nations to claim territory up to the edges of the continental shelves on which they ride.
Like most nations, India currently claims seabed territory up to the current limit of 200 nautical miles, or 370 km, offshore.
The frenetic activity has not come too soon: this year, France, Ireland, Spain and the UK sought rights to jointly exploit an Ireland-sized zone on the Atlantic seabed. Russia, Australia and New Zealand have also submitted claims.
India is guarding the exact figure of extended continental shelf it will claim — neighbouring nations too are preparing claims — to extend undersea landholdings and explore what an official called "the final frontier" of vast oil and energy reserves unclaimed under the seabed.
“It is a significant number,” was the only comment from PS Goel, secretary, Ministry of Earth Sciences.
Surveyors travelling 32,000 km in the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal have finally completed their work, and the two ministries hope to finalise the plan within two months, so it can go to the cabinet this year.
India has a deadline of 2009 to file claims before the UN's New York-based Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (CLCS) — for rights over the natural resources beneath, if it can prove its seabed is a natural extension of the outer edge of the subcontinental landmass.
"At present production, India's oil and gas reserves will last 30 years," said V.K. Sibal, director-general for hydrocarbons, Ministry of Petroleum, Delhi. "Extending the continental shelf will help India find resources for sustainable development."
For 20 months between 2002 and 2004, scientists conducted India's first-ever offshore experiments bouncing sound waves off the seabed to check the thickness of seabed sediments, data that the CLCS requires.
"The process will lead to stability in the oceans," Peter Croker, chairman, CLCS, told HT from New York. Croker quoted an International Seabed Authority estimate that as of 2000 India's extended continental shelf was estimated to hold 646 million tonnes of manganese nodules and metals, two billion barrels equivalent of oil and gas, and four billion barrels equivalent of gas hydrate. Currently India produces about 241 million barrels of oil every year.
According to UN guidelines, nations can claim land up to 350 nautical miles, about 648 km, offshore after proving the landmass geology matches that of the continental shelf.
Asked to comment on conflicts of interest in the Asian region, Croker said the CLCS could not consider a submission where a dispute existed. "The commission has no role in the delimitation of the continental shelf between neighbouring states, only in the establishment of its outer limit," he said.

[Big-E]

india has been useing old ships for a long time such as hermes aka vikrrant and the ealier collosose class carrier which they both kept in servis for a very long time.

Yeah, but they are quite a bit bigger than the Trenton. All carriers have longer service lives than LPDs.

[contedicavour]

Yeah, but they are quite a bit bigger than the Trenton. All carriers have longer service lives than LPDs.

Just a curiosity : why is that so ? The CVs are more frequently updated, their nuclear core lasts longer ? :confused:

cheers

[harryriedl]

they are all stander fule oil oir gas turbine its just something to do with the hull rather than the engine

[contedicavour]

they are all stander fule oil oir gas turbine its just something to do with the hull rather than the engine

Interesting... so the hull design of a CV resists longer because of ... less attrition ? I'm not sure I get this straight.

cheers