Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion [Archive] - Page 3

aaaditya

April 12th, 2006, 02:19 AM

here is an interesting article on the indian navy and information technology and how it has enhanced combat capabilities of the indian navy and revolutionised it's communications.

here check out this link:

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/apr122006/cyberspace1319112006411.asp

Information technology and Indian Navy The advent of information technology has not only enhanced the combat capabilities but also revolutionised the communication systems in the Indian Navy, notes Bidanda M Chengappa.

Today modern fighting navies the world over rely on Information Technology (IT) which has emerged as an effective ‘force multiplier’ or tool to increase combat capabilities in contemporary warfare. Essentially armed forces everywhere face a paradoxical situation because they need to fulfil their tasks with decreased resources and reduced manpower. This necessitates working smarter and looking for ‘force multipliers’ and IT is increasingly used to manage this paradox.

Accordingly, the Indian Navy (IN) also emphasises the importance of IT especially in communication, information warfare, weapon systems, network centric warfare, logistics and simulation. Also the nature of warfare has become information driven like activities in other spheres of life.

Communication Networks: An effective and reliable communication network is a vital asset for any organisation. The Indian Navy has implemented a state of art data network connected up to the field units. The Naval Enterprise Wide Network (NEWN) links up the command headquarters at the apex to field units or warships at the fighting end. Warships at sea are now being linked to this network. This network is based on the latest IT concepts with enough security overlays and is meant to handle futuristic trends in communication for the next decade. Apart from this, various access network technologies particularly the satellite communication are being used for credible real time data linkage and communication within the Indian Navy.

Information Warfare: Information warfare is an emerging area in the IN's plans. The concept of Information Warfare (IW) is not new. It basically comprises defensive methods of denying enemy access to our own information systems as well as offensive methods of getting into enemy systems to disrupt their smooth flow of information. Today the methods for entering the enemy's decision making cycle and gaining insights into his strategy are powered by Information Technology. Also information of superior quality is required to be made available to oneís own commander in real time, thereby enhancing his battlefield awareness.

Therefore IW envisages a large gamut of activities in a future war scenario. It is only another tool which makes warfare more complex. It is a different approach to warfare and is likely to make heavy demands in the future. The success of IW largely depends on the technological superiority, the extent of one's dependence on electronics for warfare and the extent of networking of its information systems. The Indian Navy has realised the importance of IW and large thrust is now being given to strategic studies, technology up gradation and research work in this field.

Naval Weapon systems: rely on split-second decisions often made by human elements for activation. But before and after the decision is made, the weapon system has to perform extreme computations which have to be extremely fast and precise. Therefore at the heart of every weapon system is a computationally intensive control system which has to be fast, accurate and overly reliable. To meet these requirements deftly engineered embedded systems are being employed which run customised implementation of rugged Real Time Operating Systems.

Network Centric Warfare : (NCW) visualises a paradigm shift from the normal platform or ship-centric warfare to a network centric warfare at sea. It basically relates to linking of combat units at sea like warships, submarines etc into a common shared awareness network in order to obtain information superiority and enhance decision-making. In contrast to traditional operations that are considered to be platform-centric, network centric warfare focuses on passing information rapidly among different entities to increase their ability as a whole to respond to threats. NCW sees the combat elements of the navy as "nodes" in a network. The capability of such a network is typically defined by the Metcalfe's Law on networks, which asserts that the "power of a network is proportional to the square of the number of nodes in the network". The IN is now working towards an effective networked environment at sea. However it calls for deft organisational planning and effective use of high end technology. The Indian Navy has realised this and is currently working towards NCW.

Logistics: Apart from all the operational related areas, the Navy also successfully uses the networked environment and IT prowess for managing its logistics, maintenance and other day to day administration. Navy runs successfully an "Integrated Logistics Management System" to effectively manage its vast inventories required to maintain warships, submarines and aircrafts.

The repair yards use centralised data banks and a large number of web enabled services akin to an in-house Enterprise Resource Planning system.

Training

Today the Indian Navy can boast of 100 percent IT literacy and men who are enrolled into the organisation are given the basic IT training at the entry level training itself. The Southern Naval Command (SNC) with its headquarters at Kochi has realised the need for IT training in a modern navy and the same is imparted at various levels of training. The Naval Institute of Computer Applications (NICA) located in Mumbai, conducts various types of high end and working level courses on IT for navy.

Simulators and Emulators

With the prices of computational power dropping, audio visual simulators capable of simulating any scenario has not only become affordable, it has become an effective substitution to the costly live equipment for training. Thus today, a student officer can sit for hours on a console as in a bridge of a warship and navigate his ship through a selected port or control his weapon console as in an operations room of a warship. The real scenario with all internal and external factors and even the environmental factors like wind, physical shocks, spatial orientation etc are accurately simulated.

e-learning

The Indian Navy has now embarked on a very ambitious project of e-learning. The project envisages a back bone which connects standardised information portals of the various schools and access nodes located all over IN units. The project also provides facilities like distance learning, on line examinations, video conferencing etc.

b_karan

April 12th, 2006, 03:47 AM

One of my friends have in navy has send me pics of french aircraft carrier which had recently come to india for naval excercise. I wish India too had 2/3 of these mighty machines.

Yup, Even I do wish. In the near future Admiral Gorkshov (INS Vikramaditya) will be their in the IN. Apart from this we are building our own Aircraft caeeier in COchin SHipyard Limited and will be available by 2012 .

aaaditya

April 13th, 2006, 12:35 AM

seems that the americans are interested in involving india in the p8mma project. a boeing team will give indian navy a presentation on this project.indian navy also seems to be quite enthusiastic about this project.

here check out this link:

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/2313.html

XEROX

April 13th, 2006, 11:24 AM

From Boeing news release...

Boeing Submits Proposal to Indian Navy for Long-Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft
ST. LOUIS, April 13, 2006 -- A team led by Boeing [NYSE: BA] today submitted its proposal to develop and deliver eight long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft to the Indian navy. Boeing is offering a variant of its P-8A Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft, which is currently in development for the U.S. Navy. The proposed aircraft would provide India with a significantly improved maritime patrol and reconnaissance capability.

"We have proposed a unique system that will enhance the capability of the Indian navy in anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare," said Rick Buck, Boeing program manager for P-8A international programs. "The increased range, speed, radius of action and advanced combat power inherent in our 21st century solution will enable the Indian navy to fully patrol and influence events in its entire operational region. Additionally, the commonality inherent in our solution will greatly enhance the interoperability and supportability objectives publicly supported by both the U.S. and Indian navies."

Boeing is the prime contractor and systems integrator for the U.S. Navy's P-8A Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft. The Boeing team includes CFM, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and Smiths. The U.S. Navy plans to purchase 108 aircraft, with deliveries beginning in 2009.
Boeing's proposal includes the development of a unique Indian navy P-8 configuration, significant participation for Indian industry, test and certification activities, and eight aircraft delivered over a four-year period.
Under the request for proposal, bids were to be submitted by April 13, 2006, with first deliveries occurring within 48 months of the contract award.

Link (http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/mma/news/2006/q2/060413a_nr.html)

Would a unique Indian version of the P-8 consist of Brahmos or Klub instead of Harpoons.

As a side issue, are the U.S willing to sell India AGEIS tech for its own platform, and is India prepared to buy.

aaaditya

April 13th, 2006, 04:40 PM

usa offered india the aegis system for its warships,however nothing much is known about it,these were offered ,the same time that usa offered india the lpd uss trenton and the osprey class of mine counter measure vessels and the deap submergence rescue vessels.

india has recently decided to buy the deap submergence rescue vessels,and the uss trenton ,and are still considering acquiring 8 osprey class mcm's ,however not much is known about the aegis systems,iam sure though that india will be able to modify the p8mma to be able to carry the brahmos and the klub missiles,these are to be the frontline anti ship missiles of the indian navy.

WebMaster

April 13th, 2006, 08:59 PM

usa offered india the aegis system for its warships...

Not true. US never offered India AEGIS Weapon System, however US has offered to sell warships to India but NO mention of AEGIS:

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=312191

I don't know where you read (may have been Indian media but nothing from US DoD or LockMart) that it was offered but as far as my research goes, you only find people assuming on other forums about AEGIS being offered or "india could get..." but there has been no solid offering of such combat system to India.

aaaditya

April 14th, 2006, 06:16 AM

Not true. US never offered India AEGIS Weapon System, however US has offered to sell warships to India but NO mention of AEGIS:

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=312191

I don't know where you read (may have been Indian media but nothing from US DoD or LockMart) that it was offered but as far as my research goes, you only find people assuming on other forums about AEGIS being offered or "india could get..." but there has been no solid offering of such combat system to India.

iam quite positive regarding the offer of the aegis to the indian navy,though i cannot find the source as of now, by the way the warships that the article mentions are not warships in the true sense ,but are basically support vessels(the osprey class of mine counter measure vessels and the uss trenton landing platform dock).there has been no offer of warships like destroyers and frigates to the indian navy ,though i believe usa offered 2 spruance class of destroyers to pakistan.

gf0012-aust

April 14th, 2006, 06:51 AM

iam quite positive regarding the offer of the aegis to the indian navy

I very much doubt this.

Aegis cannot be retro fitted to older vessels - it is only installed at the construction stage (final fitout) on new vessels.

The fact that no major surface combatants have been offered to Indian reinforces this.

The US Govt offered Australia 3 Ticonderoga Class cruisers to Australia with Aegis and they were rejected. Amongst one of the many reasons being that a new update to the existing Aegis system was not possible.

Aegis was definitely NOT offered to India - and it certainly is NOT able to be installed retrospectively on the vessel types you mention.

The news source is absolutely wrong.

aaaditya

April 14th, 2006, 12:57 PM

I very much doubt this.

Aegis cannot be retro fitted to older vessels - it is only installed at the construction stage (final fitout) on new vessels.

The fact that no major surface combatants have been offered to Indian reinforces this.

The US Govt offered Australia 3 Ticonderoga Class cruisers to Australia with Aegis and they were rejected. Amongst one of the many reasons being that a new update to the existing Aegis system was not possible.

Aegis was definitely NOT offered to India - and it certainly is NOT able to be installed retrospectively on the vessel types you mention.

The news source is absolutely wrong.

i meant for the new p15a class.

WebMaster

April 14th, 2006, 02:00 PM

There has been no release of such offer (of AEGIS for Indian vessels) from US Department of Defense and or the contractors involved therein... so any offer must have been cooked by the Indian Media, just like the F-18 and F-16 offers were cooked way way before the actual offers was made.

P.A.F

April 20th, 2006, 01:26 PM

Source: Reuters

Lockheed bids for $1 bln aircraft deals with India
Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:44 AM ET

By Madhu Soman
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Top U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin Corp. <LMT.N> has made two formal bids to sell about $1 billion worth of naval aircraft to India, a senior company official said on Thursday.
The bids are the latest by an American defense firm to leverage warming bilateral relations between the two countries who were on the opposite sides of the Cold War.
Under the first bid, Lockheed has offered to sell 8 upgraded U.S. Navy P-3 aircraft to replace a fleet of vintage Russian reconnaissance planes for $550-700 million.
The other bid is for 16 multi-mission MH60R helicopters costing $350-400 million, said Royce Caplinger, head of Lockheed's Indian operations.
"It's a case of the perfect storm: the bilateral relationship, the requirement for products like ours, a budgeting process in India that is fixed and real, the money and there seems to be political will," he told Reuters.
Lockheed officials said American defense firms were buoyed by a recent landmark civilian nuclear cooperation pact between the United States and India, which they say is yet another indication of the strength of their relationship.
"We do follow our government. And, where they go, we tend to think that provides us a stable relationship that we can do business with," said Philip Georgariou, a director with Lockheed's aeronautics division in the U.S.
India, which has the world's fourth-largest military with a 1.3 million-strong force, is seen as a lucrative market by U.S. firms as New Delhi is modernizing its defense equipment after long years of neglect.
RELIABLE SUPPLIER?
The Indian government raised its defense spending by 7 percent for fiscal 2006/07 to $20 billion as Pakistan and giant neighbor China -- both of whom have fought wars with India -- are seen as threats despite improved relations.
It is shopping for new fighter and trainer jets, submarines, an aircraft carrier, modern guns and radars.
India plans to buy 126 fighter jets, valued at close to $10 billion, which pits Lockheed's F-16 and Boeing Co.'s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet against planes from Russia, Sweden and France.
Lockheed officials said they were happy that India was looking beyond its traditional sources for the deal, the biggest fighter jet purchase by a country in recent times.
However, Indian defense experts said there was still a lot of skepticism about assured supplies of spares by U.S. companies as they are vulnerable to shifting bilateral moods.
"We have absolutely no experience of dealing with the Americans, as against the Russians, the French or the British or even the Israelis," said Ashok Mehta, a retired Indian army major-general and defense analyst.
Lockheed officials said their company was keen to invest in India's tightly-controlled defense sector as it gradually opens up to the private sector and ultimately to foreign investment.
"It (India) has got not only a wealth of technology and capability but also the advantage of low cost of labor," Georgariou said after visiting some Indian defense facilities.
"India is not the destination for Lockheed Martin. It's the way point to the global market place," Caplinger added.

XEROX

April 20th, 2006, 01:50 PM

To be honest, whats the point in purchasing P3 Orions when in 7 years time you can get Boeings P-8 which are a generation ahead.

I can see the Indian Navy leasing them instead:)

P.A.F

April 20th, 2006, 02:07 PM

There you go Brahmos,:D

http://www.business-standard.com/bsonline/storypage.php?bKeyFlag=BO&autono=15447

Boeing offers eight P-8As to Indian NavyPress Trust of India / New Delhi April 13, 2006Boeing has bid to sell eight long-range maritime reconaissance and anti-submarine P-8A aircraft to the Indian Navy. The company has also invited India to be its development partner, according to a release by Boeing issued today.

"A high-level team today submitted its proposal to develop and deliver the P-8A aircraft, which is currently under development for the US Navy," Rick Buck, programme manager of Boeing, said.

Buck said the proposed offer for sale of P-8As would be the first direct military sale for Boeing in India.

"The proposed aircraft is expected to undergo first tests in 2009 for the US Navy, and would provide India with futuristic technology and significantly improved maritime patrol and reconissance capability," a Boeing official said.

XEROX

April 20th, 2006, 02:24 PM

P.A.F

April 20th, 2006, 02:44 PM

i will disagree with u there. the P-8A Will replace the P-3 aircraft. aircraft with such roles need to be small yet compact. and talking of range. well i'm sure the P-8 can cover all of india's shore line non stop.

aaaditya

April 20th, 2006, 11:01 PM

The P-8A will really boost the navies ability, but my problem with it is the actual platform, Boeings 737 aircraft, it hasnt got the range compared to other Boeing aircraft, i would have prefered the 777, or even the 787

777 is a very heavy,maintainence intensive aircraft,expensive(around 100-150million dollars per aircraft) and also provides a bigger rcs and hence would not be suitable,besides this aircraft will only be able to operate from internation airports in the country and hence is not suitable.

aaaditya

April 20th, 2006, 11:04 PM

well guys since boeing p8mma is apart of the competition for the indian maritime patrol aircraft deal,i am sure we will find this article on the p8 mma from the boeing site vey interesting and informative.

here is the link:

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/mma/index.html

:D

suryaaa

April 22nd, 2006, 02:32 AM

aaaditya

April 22nd, 2006, 08:47 AM

guys a tragedy hapend yesterday that one of our missile corvets has sunk.

rreason is what makes us dought full, that this ship collide with a merchent ship ,with the help of coast gaurd and other naval ship 73 men on board where rescued.

i heard this news in cnn-ibn,but i couldnt find it in there web .

so guys what actualy could have happened ,with all the tech ,its unbelivable.

:confused: :confused:

it is not a missile corvette but a patrol ship,this particular vessel is one of the oldest in the navy,i collided with a merchant vessel,that was stationery,the news was posted on sify news and the bharat rakshak.

rebellious

April 23rd, 2006, 06:59 AM

aaaditya

April 23rd, 2006, 08:46 AM

The INS Viraat - the Navy's only aircraft carrier, Shishumar-class (German Class 209/1500) submarines, Russian stealth frigates and Delhi-class destroyers will train with a US nuclear-powered carrier carrying a fleet of F/A-18 Hornets. This is the first time the Navy's Sea Harriers will get a chance to fly with the US carrier-based jets. The Navy will also get to engage upgraded US P-3C Orions, on offer to the government.

i dont fancy the Sea HArrier's chances against th F-18s. once we get the mig 29k (we are getting them right/?) it should be a much better battle. i think the indian pilots would stand a good chance with the mig 29s if these exercises are repeated in the future.

i believe they recently conducted these exercises,people realy underestimete the sea harriers,older model navy sea harriers had got better of the airforce mirage2000's is dissimiliar combat exercises.

the advantages that the sea harriers have is their small rcs and their high manouverability.also the cirrent batch of sea harriers have been upgraded with the israeli elta-el/m-2032 radars and are capable of carrying the derby bvraam and python5 sraam(a deadly comination),iam sure it will be able to trouble the f18 more than the mig29.

XEROX

April 23rd, 2006, 10:11 AM

The current admiral, wants a naval air fleet on the same basis of the Chinas PLAN-AF, exercise against France and the U.S, and against Rafale and F/A 18 will help in determining the best a/c for the IN:ar15

norinco89

April 23rd, 2006, 10:38 AM

XEROX

April 23rd, 2006, 10:47 AM

Have you guys given up on the LCA. I am almost certain it will be carrier compatable. Its so small and light it will be able to take off on a small run way. Whens it going to go into production? They keep proponing it and various news sources say it is coming out in a year and others say in 4. So what is it

The LCA naval version will surely reside on the ADS carrier, but the Navy wants a new seperate air fleet, on land.

aaaditya

April 23rd, 2006, 06:41 PM

Have you guys given up on the LCA. I am almost certain it will be carrier compatable. Its so small and light it will be able to take off on a small run way. Whens it going to go into production? They keep proponing it and various news sources say it is coming out in a year and others say in 4. So what is it

as a matter of fact naval test pilots have already flown the lca pv2.

the airforce variant (the first batch of 40) will start joing the the service in about 2010,so we can expect the naval variant to be productionised in 2015.

norinco89

April 23rd, 2006, 08:56 PM

2010 and 2015! The kavari engine doesnt take that long to fix

aaaditya

April 24th, 2006, 12:29 AM

2010 and 2015! The kavari engine doesnt take that long to fix

its not a question of the kaveri engine(in a worst case scenario i believe that the kaveri will be ready by 2010) ,the question of operational clearance,most countries initially acquire a small number of aircrafts ,they train extensively on them ,prepare operational and maintainence doctrines regarding the aircraft and try to integrate them into the force structure and only when all this is achieved, do they order in bulk(this stage is called as the ioc or initial operational clearance) and is a part of the aircrafts development stage.

aaaditya

April 27th, 2006, 07:48 AM

hey guys here is an interesting news article which clearly states that india's grse will launch 3 new vessels on 28th april for the indian coast guard.

these include 2 fast attack craft for the coast guard having a 1500nm range and a speed of 35 knots and a displacement of 266 tons.

an extra large patrol vessel having a displacement of 2500tons and a range of 6500 nms and a cruise speed of 25kts (5 of this class are to be built) for which raytheon marine has supplied the bridge equipment.

here check out the link:

http://oheraldo.in/node/12866

Goa Shipyard to create shipbuilding history

HERALD NEWS DESK
PANJIM, APRIL 26 — Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL) is poised to make a landmark event in the Indian shipbuilding history with the launching of two vessels and commissioning of one vessel on April 28.
A11 these vessels have been designed and built by GSL for the Indian Coast Guard. The two vessels to be launched include one extra fast patrol vessel (XFPV) and one advanced offshore patrol vessel (AOPV). The 105mts AOPV will be the biggest vessel ever built for Indian Coast Guard. The XFPV will be the fifth in series built by GSL. April 28 will witness the commissioning of Extra Fast Patrol Vessel “ICGS Subhadra Kumari Chauhan “at MPT jetty, Vasco. Chief guest for this function will be the Dr P Paleri, PTM, TM, Director General of Indian Coast Guard.
The vessel is 50mts long, 266T primarily designed for patrolling, anti-smuggling and anti-terrorist operations. With a speed of 35 knots, this vessel is fastest in its category ever built by any shipyard with unique feature of waterjet propulsion. It can also support navy during wartime as a coastal convoy escort and a communication link. The vessel has a minimum endurance of 1500NM and is fitted with one 30mm gun, two 12.7 mm machine guns along with highly advanced navigation and communication equipment. For hot pursuit and capture operations requiring high-speed maneuverability, the vessel is powered by three 2720 kw MTU diesel engines driving three independent waterjets. The hull of the vessel is strong enough to withstand sea conditions upto sea state 6. ICGS Subhadra Kumari Chauhan was launched on December 30, 2005. Later in the day, 105mts AOPV will be launched at the hands of Susheela Paleri, wife of DGCG, while the XFPV will be launched by Uma Vadgaokar, wife of FOGA, Goa Naval Area at a ceremony to be held at GSL yard.
The 105 mts AOPV has been named as “ICGS Sankalp” meaning resolute determination. This will be the first of its series and can stage ALH helicopters with helo traversing facility and sea boats. The range of the vessel is 6500NM with a speed of 23.5 knots. The vessel is powered by 28100kw engines with CPP propulsion. The vessel will be ideal for partrolling and policing maritime zones and long-range search and rescue operations.

aaaditya

April 27th, 2006, 02:34 PM

hey guys ,check out this article it provides specifications and information on india's indigenously designed light weight torpedo (the shneya) and the indiagenous heavy weight torpedo,also it states that india is developing submersible ships smaller than a conventional submarine.

here is the link:

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/subcontinent/2006/April/subcontinent_April1022.xml&section=subcontinent&col=

According to Dr Rao, NSTL is already working on the higher version of torpedo — 'heavyweight torpedo' — and has completed the tests on its capabilities. "This will go in to production by 2009-10," he said.
The lightweight torpedo is 2-3-metre-long and 200kg in weight. It has a range of 6-88km. The heavyweight torpedo is 6-8-metres-long and has a weight of 1,500-2,000kg and a range of 20-30km. It can move at a speed of 40 nautical miles.
According to Dr Rao, the NSTL was also working on several other futuristic projects like developing submersible ships, which will be smaller than the sub marines and can perform both the military and civilian duties.
The laboratory has also completed work on preparing the designs for 'Stealth Ships' after a seven-year-long work and provided the data and design to the Indian Navy for building the futuristic ships.

aaaditya

April 28th, 2006, 01:19 AM

hey guys this is article clearly states that nstl is developing a uuv (unmanned underwater vessel )for civilian and millitary purposes.

can anyone provide information on similiar uuv programmes of other nations(china,pakistan,usa,australia an european union and brazil).

by the way check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/04/27/stories/2006042717090300.htm

Another important project under development was advanced autonomous submersible, which could be used for both civilian (rescue, debris clearance) as well as military (underwater photography and laying mines) applications. It was also drawing up futuristic programmes for warships and submarines.

Big-E

April 28th, 2006, 03:14 AM

Can someone give me the current state of the LCA program. As long as this thing has been in development will it still be a good platform?

suryaaa

April 28th, 2006, 05:49 AM

aaditya you said about stealth ship and work on it has been going on for 7 years .are we actualy talking about sips in the stealth category which us have.

silent propulsion sytem for subs do have any such thing.

gf0012-aust

April 28th, 2006, 06:03 AM

aaditya you said about stealth ship and work on it has been going on for 7 years .are we actualy talking about sips in the stealth category which us have.

I haven't heard of any Indian progs in delivering stealth designed ships. There are only a few places where such designs could happen in India and none of those places have shown any activity at all. None of her current skimmers show any feature of reduced emission design - and none of the designs promoted show sig management features either.

The most modern of her sig modified vessels are russian and they are not sig reduced designs either. (certainly not in the league of the LaFayettes etc...)

silent propulsion sytem for subs do have any such thing.

India is not running any NV or sig management systems on any of her subs. Her most recent Kilo was launched with std 2nd generation Russian blades.

aaaditya

April 28th, 2006, 01:07 PM

I haven't heard of any Indian progs in delivering stealth designed ships. There are only a few places where such designs could happen in India and none of those places have shown any activity at all. None of her current skimmers show any feature of reduced emission design - and none of the designs promoted show sig management features either.

The most modern of her sig modified vessels are russian and they are not sig reduced designs either. (certainly not in the league of the LaFayettes etc...)

India is not running any NV or sig management systems on any of her subs. Her most recent Kilo was launched with std 2nd generation Russian blades.

actually nstl is naval laboratory it is still carrying research in stealth technology,their other projects are reported to be unmanned hovercraft,uuv,and the foilcat(foil based catamaran).

also larsen and toubro have recently entered shipbuilding and designing in a big way,they have their own design beureau and plan to construct small and medium sized vessels for the navy and coast guard,they have recently acquired land for this purpose at chennai and at hazira(where they propose to construct amur submarines for india in partnership with kirloskar marine engines limited),they had wanted to construct the scorpenes for the navy ,but navy chose mdl so as to utilize their dormant facilities.

also,i dont how true it is but recently i saw a us article which mentioned the sale of us ccs submarine command control system(i believe similiar to the one sold to australia) to india (i dont know if this article is true or not ,if true iam not sure wether these are meant for the atv,scorpene or the amur or the kilo upgrades.),would have any idea about this deal.

also that artcile which i posted mentioned submersible ships ,not signature management for submarines,besides the article meant that the stealth research and design concepts being conducted by the organisation for the past 7 years has reached a stage where is can be productionised in the form of stealth warships.

aaaditya

April 28th, 2006, 01:12 PM

by the ways guys the construction of the first scorpene for the indian navy has been started.

here is the link:

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1026612

The Scorpene is a 1,750-tonne (1,929-ton) submarine, 67 metres (220 feet) long and capable of diving to a depth of 300 metres.
Designed for coastal defence, it can stay at sea for up to 45 days with a crew of 31. It is equipped with modern sonar detection equipment, six torpedo tubes and missile launchers; these are among the parts being produced in France, along with the propellers, hatches and front and back bulkheads.
DCN developed the submarine jointly with the Spanish shipbuilder Navantia (formerly Izar), with the French defence group Thales providing the electronics.

Work on assembling the first Scorpene is scheduled to begin in December 2006 at the Mazagaon shipyard in Mumbai. The vessel should be ready by 2012, the Indian defence ministry said, with the remaining five being delivered at intervals of one per year thereafter.

aaaditya

May 7th, 2006, 06:32 PM

well guys here are a couple of interesting news articles from the prime ministers day at sea.

here check out these links:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/05/07/stories/2006050704820800.htm

http://www.hindu.com/2006/05/07/stories/2006050704790800.htm

norinco89

May 7th, 2006, 08:49 PM

aaaditya

May 7th, 2006, 11:22 PM

What is the current status on India's subs.

I know the scorpian is going to come out in a few years

What is the current status on India's SSN. Are they going to buy a amur class sub or what?
What level of technology is India's indigious sub capable of. Victor II? Yankee?

well dont know much about the russian amur,but the recent that i heard from the indian navy was that india is interested in joining the russo-italian submarines project,this project is to be based on the amur(a 900-1200 ton variant proposed for the italian navy for littoral warfare.)

however the most unique feature of the amur is its versatility, it is available in sizes ranging from 900tons to 1800tons depending upon the customer specifications.

the russo -italian project will most probably have fuel cell developed italy ,adn italian/european sensors.

if india joins this project then the indian navy version will have either the indigenous humsa or the panchendriya sonars,which have been found to be superior to the russian sonars.

the atv class nuclear powered submarine is expected to be launched next year or in 2008 at the latest,the problem with the reactor containment vessel is claimed to be solved (with russian assistance offered as a part of the koodankulam project),there are also reports that israel is actively participating in this project(maybe for the development of a internediate ranged cruise misile based on the turbopopeye),however icannot confirm this ,all i can confirm is that in 2002 a high level indian delegation went to israel (includng the indian defence secretary) and this project was on the agenda for discussion.

larsen and toubro and kirloskar marine engines are actively involved in this project,they have already set up facilities in hazira expecting to manufacture the amur class for the navy should the navy select it.

they also offered to build the corpenes for the navy at hazira,but the navy wanted to revitalise its facilities at mdl and hence mdl was selected for the scorpene project.

recently a high level indian delegation left for south korea ,their agenda was cooperation in warship and defence technology development and design ,i hope that submarine design and development was also discusse.

XEROX

May 8th, 2006, 12:44 PM

recently a high level indian delegation left for south korea ,their agenda was cooperation in warship and defence technology development and design ,i hope that submarine design and development was also discusse.
South Korean ship building looks quality, i could just about image a KDX-3 under Indian navy command:dbanana

gf0012-aust

May 8th, 2006, 09:40 PM

r
South Korean ship building looks quality, i could just about image a KDX-3 under Indian navy command:dbanana

The Sth Koreans build to an excellent level of quality. eg they do without doubt, build the best quality deep sea anchor boats in the world at the moment - and all at a price range that is probably 2/3rds to 3/4's the cost of their nearest competitors.

SABRE

May 8th, 2006, 10:24 PM

well dont know much about the russian amur,but the recent that i heard from the indian navy was that india is interested in joining the russo-italian submarines project,this project is to be based on the amur(a 900-1200 ton variant proposed for the italian navy for littoral warfare.)

however the most unique feature of the amur is its versatility, it is available in sizes ranging from 900tons to 1800tons depending upon the customer specifications.

the russo -italian project will most probably have fuel cell developed italy ,adn italian/european sensors.

if india joins this project then the indian navy version will have either the indigenous humsa or the panchendriya sonars,which have been found to be superior to the russian sonars.

the atv class nuclear powered submarine is expected to be launched next year or in 2008 at the latest,the problem with the reactor containment vessel is claimed to be solved (with russian assistance offered as a part of the koodankulam project),there are also reports that israel is actively participating in this project(maybe for the development of a internediate ranged cruise misile based on the turbopopeye),however icannot confirm this ,all i can confirm is that in 2002 a high level indian delegation went to israel (includng the indian defence secretary) and this project was on the agenda for discussion.

larsen and toubro and kirloskar marine engines are actively involved in this project,they have already set up facilities in hazira expecting to manufacture the amur class for the navy should the navy select it.

they also offered to build the corpenes for the navy at hazira,but the navy wanted to revitalise its facilities at mdl and hence mdl was selected for the scorpene project.

What happened to the French Scorpio subs ?? I thought they were under construction in France for IN.

WebMaster

May 8th, 2006, 11:06 PM

What happened to the French Scorpio subs ?? I thought they were under construction in France for IN.

The work is under progress in Spain and France:

Work Begins On First Franco-Spanish Scorpene Submarine for India
(http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_005810.php)
France’s state shipbuilder DCN began April 28 manufacturing parts for the first of six Scorpene submarines ordered by India.

Other Related News on this issue:

Scorpene Class Submarines For Indian Navy Update and Details (http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/../news/publish/article_003755.php)
NEW DELHI: India and France today signed contracts for the construction of six Scorpene class submarines in India under Project-75. The project will cost around three and a half billion dollars.

India, France Sign 2.4-Bln-Euro Submarine Deal (http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/../news/publish/article_003687.php)
New Delhi: India and France on Thursday signed a deal in New Delhi for the purchase of six Franco-Spanish Scorpene submarines and pledged total transparency in the 2.4-billion-euro (three-billion-dollar) contract.

aaaditya

May 9th, 2006, 05:21 AM

What happened to the French Scorpio subs ?? I thought they were under construction in France for IN.

indian navy plans to set up 2 submarine lines one on the west coast (scorpene) and the other on the east coast(amur or hdw).

aaaditya

May 9th, 2006, 05:28 AM

hey guys heer is an interesting article stating that the gsl will start exporting vessels and that saarc countries have expressed their interest in the gsl designed fast patrol vessel.

here check out this link:

http://www.projectsmonitor.com/detailnews.asp?newsid=4789

Goa Shipyard enters export market with fastest vessel

By A Business Correspondent

Goa Shipyard Ltd, a naval shipyard, has entered the commercial market or, more precisely, the export defence market with a new high-speed patrol craft indigenously designed and built. With a success credit of building over 166 ships of various sizes till date, in addition to repair and maintenance of ships, GSL latest 35 knot Fast Petrol Vessel (FPV) is believed to be the fastest in the world in its category. The FPV has a competitive tag of Rs 45 crore. Export enquiries from Saarc countries are pouring in and to this effect GSL has set up an office in Thailand.

Within the coming 10 years, GSL plans to build new generation vessels, such as air cushion type landing crafts, mine counter measure vessels, pollution control vessels, rescue crafts, tankers, tugs of all types and hovercrafts. Towards this end, collaboration/MoU/transfer of technology agreements are being entered into with foreign shipyards for building these high technology vessels.

http://www.projectsmonitor.com/Library/Goa-1.jpg
The indigenously designed and built 35 knots Fast Patrol Vessel

suryaaa

May 9th, 2006, 06:13 AM

indian navy plans to set up 2 submarine lines one on the west coast (scorpene) and the other on the east coast(amur or hdw).

aaditya can you give me some info on the eastern sub fleet (amur or hdw).

i am confused about this deal,under which project will this deal come.

about scorpene deal are we getteng tot with it.

what is our current position on atv.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

suryaaa

May 9th, 2006, 06:23 AM

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Amur.html

according to this link amur was actualy ment for indo -russian navy,s.
but it was actualy abondend for pro-75,which now is scopene ,

this es realy confusing :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

aaaditya

May 9th, 2006, 10:39 AM

india initially wanted to go for the amur only,however according to the new defence procurement policy,there cannot be a single vendor system,that is more one companie's products have to be evaluate.india already operates hdw submarines and also russian submarines,the clinching factor would be which submarine can integrate the brahmos(amur can,but as of now there is no proposal by hdw to integrate the brahmos on the hdw type214.)

aaaditya

May 9th, 2006, 10:46 AM

aaditya can you give me some info on the eastern sub fleet (amur or hdw).

i am confused about this deal,under which project will this deal come.

about scorpene deal are we getteng tot with it.

what is our current position on atv.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

under project 75 a total of 30 submarines are to be built over a period of 30 years,initially the plan was to develop an indigenous design based on the existing type 209 class of submarine,however these submarine could not be modified to carry missiles.

then the plan was to acquire a submarine from abroad ,which was changed to splitting the order between two submarines.

as far as the atv is concerned ,the project is claimed to be on schedule ,and reportedly all problems with the reactor containment vessel have been solved
with the russian assistance,the vessel is expected to be launched in 2008.

the vessel will most probably be classified as a ssgn(sub surface general nuclear) and iam sure will be capable of launching both ballistic and cruise missiles.

contedicavour

May 9th, 2006, 06:03 PM

under project 75 a total of 30 submarines are to be built over a period of 30 years,initially the plan was to develop an indigenous design based on the existing type 209 class of submarine,however these submarine could not be modified to carry missiles.

then the plan was to acquire a submarine from abroad ,which was changed to splitting the order between two submarines.

as far as the atv is concerned ,the project is claimed to be on schedule ,and reportedly all problems with the reactor containment vessel have been solved
with the russian assistance,the vessel is expected to be launched in 2008.

the vessel will most probably be classified as a ssgn(sub surface general nuclear) and iam sure will be capable of launching both ballistic and cruise missiles.

My understanding from sources such as Naval Forces review is that the Indian submarine fleet will be organized along 3 classes :
> Scorpene, 6 subs for now, replacing Foxtrot and T209
> Amur as of 2010 approx, replacing the Kilo
> Local production SSN based on Victor-III Russian design.
Even if the sum of these 3 classes remained below 20 subs, this would still be the most capable sub force in Asia after Japan and for a long while China, because of its numbers and because of the cruise Brahmos missile. Japan lacks for Constitutional reasons cruise missiles and China has mostly obsolete subs (except the Kilo and the new Yuan).

cheers

aaaditya

May 9th, 2006, 10:48 PM

well heer is an interesting article which states how much indian navy loves the russian krivack class and also that currently 33 warships are under construction in india with an approval for acquisition of 30 more warships.

here check out this link:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1523157.cms

NEW DELHI: In a major defence deal, the Navy is all set to order three more Talwar-class "stealth" frigates from Russia. To be inducted within five years, these multi-role guided-missile warships will cost well over Rs 1,000-crore each.

That's not all. Faced with rapidly depleting force-levels, the Navy now has as many as 33 warships "under production or order", mainly in public sector shipyards, to retain its war-waging capabilities. Moreover, the Navy has also got government approval "in principle" for 30 more warships after these 33.

"The technical and commercial negotiations for the three new frigates from Russia have now been wrapped up. The contract will be signed formally as soon as the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approves it," said sources.

The first three such frigates, INS Talwar, INS Trishul and INS Tabar, were inducted in Navy in 2003-2004 after considerable delay due to glitches in missile systems.

The Navy, however, now simply loves these 4,000-tonne frigates due to the deadly punch they pack, with a wide array of sensor and weapon systems, including the 200-km-range 'Klub-N' cruise missiles. The next three frigates, incidentally, will also be armed with the 300-km range BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles.

Sources said Navy, which wants to maintain its present force-level of around 140 warships and submarines, is going in for "this import option" since the order books for the indigenous shipyards is "now full".

Initial work on the Rs 18,798-crore Scorpene submarine project at Mazagaon Docks and the Rs 4,000-crore project for the 37,500-tonne Air-Defence Ship (ADS) at Cochin Shipyard, for instance, is already underway. While the six Scorpenes will be ready between 2012 and 2017, the ADS will be fully operational only by 2014 or so.

The Navy, of course, is eagerly awaiting the induction of aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (the 44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov undergoing a refit in Russia), with its 16 MiG-29K jet fighters, in end-2008.

The other indigenous projects include three Shivalik-class stealth frigates and three Kolkata-class destroyers at Mazagaon Docks; four anti-submarine warfare corvettes, two fast-attack crafts and three landing ship tankers at Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE) at Kolkata; and three offshore patrol vessels at Goa Shipyard Ltd.

aaaditya

May 10th, 2006, 06:05 AM

well guys seems that the navy is lookig at its own hawk,the goshawk,by the way is the goshawk capable of operating from the carriers,can anyone provide some information on it?

here check out this link:

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=126504

NEW DELHI, MAY 9: The lack of momentum on the Indo-US civil nuclear agreement has failed to deter American defence manufacturers from wooing the Indian defence force.
According to sources, it is understood that a large delegation from Boeing is arriving in New Delhi later this month to explore opportunities for offering T-45 goshawk to the indian navy.

XEROX

May 10th, 2006, 10:51 AM

My understanding from sources such as Naval Forces review is that the Indian submarine fleet will be organized along 3 classes :
> Scorpene, 6 subs for now, replacing Foxtrot and T209
> Amur as of 2010 approx, replacing the Kilo
> Local production SSN based on Victor-III Russian design.

I thought it was widly known that the 2 SSNs from Russia would be the Akulas, and the indiginous ATV boat would be based upon the Severodvinsk class

(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/885.htm)

aaaditya

May 10th, 2006, 04:29 PM

I thought it was widly known that the 2 SSNs from Russia would be the Akulas, and the indiginous ATV boat would be based upon the Severodvinsk class

(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/885.htm)

i remember reading an article (i cant remember the source) that the hull of the atv resembles the severodvinsk,but until a detailed information is not available ,this cannot be considered as true.the 2 akulas are to be acquired on a lease for a period of 10 years to train the crew on the operations with a nuclear submarine.

Big-E

May 11th, 2006, 02:28 AM

Has the IN been able to fit a reactor into the ATV to keep with weight and size reqs?

aaaditya

May 11th, 2006, 03:10 AM

Has the IN been able to fit a reactor into the ATV to keep with weight and size reqs?

from what i have read in the media reports,yes the reactor has been land tested and fitted in the hull,now the remaining work has to be done.

Big-E

May 11th, 2006, 03:31 AM

from what i have read in the media reports,yes the reactor has been land tested and fitted in the hull,now the remaining work has to be done.

That shouldn't take long, any idea to a launch date? India's first nuc-sub is exciting.

suryaaa

May 11th, 2006, 08:38 AM

gf0012-aust

May 11th, 2006, 09:53 AM

why navy is going for T-45 Goshawk its only a naval version of hawk,then why going for the same ac.

isnt there any other better a/c

Whats better? Its the only dedicated CATOBAR rated small jet trainer available.

If you look at the potential for improvements, then they are substantial. eg the RAAF Hawks are glassed as Hornets.

There is no reason why the Goshawks couldn't be glassed as SHornets either.

In real terms, if one wanted to start making educated guesses, what would a glassed in Goshawk imply?

:rolleyes:

suryaaa

May 11th, 2006, 11:06 AM

In real terms, if one wanted to start making educated guesses, what would a glassed in Goshawk imply?

:rolleyes:

can you make it clear please .

what about russian yak-130.

russia is going to induct 300 yak-130 to their squad.

and my question was is hawk the only trainer around.

india at present doen't need this [ CATOBAR ] feature because we dont have any aircraftcarieer with that system.

gf0012-aust

May 11th, 2006, 11:18 AM

can you make it clear please .

Go back and read my response again - I'm trying to be subtle. ;)

what about russian yak-130.

what about it? platforms are purchased based on requirements. Define the requirements and then you start to narrow down the platform choices

russia is going to induct 300 yak-130 to their squad.

and this has what to do with the IN requirements?

and my question was is hawk the only trainer around.

See above. It's a requirements driven issue. You don't purchase platforms based on whats available - you select them based on what fits your need.

india at present doen't need this [ CATOBAR ] feature because we dont have any aircraftcarieer with that system.

See above. Why would India even begin to think about looking at Goshawks when they have Hawks which are non CATOBAR Lead in Fighters? Are you suggesting then that the IN have no idea what they need due to current platform requirements? Who says they don't need it unless there is a bigger picture under consideration. The mere fact that they are prepared to look is significant. Again, add up the reasons and there is a bigger consideration and requirement that has obviously caused an attitude shift.

The answer lies in the question. Either IN is doing some serious consideration about future platform mix, or they are making some huge timewasting evaluations for no ones benefit. Tender evaluation teams don't like wasting time (in my exp) - so that means that the mere consideration of the Goshawk should cause more questions to be asked.

powerslavenegi

May 12th, 2006, 07:01 AM

from what i have read in the media reports,yes the reactor has been land tested and fitted in the hull,now the remaining work has to be done.
Hey When was the Keel laid? I mean until recently the project was on paper

suryaaa

May 12th, 2006, 09:01 AM

Under project 75 india will built 12 sub

6-scorpene sub deal where inked under this project.

for remaining 6 subs there is two contenter's

1]amur
2]212hdw.

i have compared the spec's of amur and scorpene both resembles to an extend.

but hdw remains diff IN that comparison.

so my question is which one will in go for.

mukunda

May 12th, 2006, 11:01 AM

Whats better? Its the only dedicated CATOBAR rated small jet trainer available.

If you look at the potential for improvements, then they are substantial. eg the RAAF Hawks are glassed as Hornets.
Hi gary,
could not understand what you mean? Your responses are extremely technical in nature. Kindly can you be more earthly? Can you please elaborate what you mean by "eg the RAAF Hawks are glassed as Hornets."

There is no reason why the Goshawks couldn't be glassed as SHornets either.
again what does this mean , imply:confused::confused:

In real terms, if one wanted to start making educated guesses, what would a glassed in Goshawk imply?
:confused::confused:

you haven't replied to my email .

Supe

May 13th, 2006, 04:31 AM

Hi gary,
could not understand what you mean? Your responses are extremely technical in nature. Kindly can you be more earthly? Can you please elaborate what you mean by "eg the RAAF Hawks are glassed as Hornets."

I think GF is referring to the cockpit of the RAAF Hawk as being fundamentally the same as the Hornet, allowing easier transition of trainee pilot from Hawk to Hornet.

gf0012-aust

May 14th, 2006, 08:44 PM

I think GF is referring to the cockpit of the RAAF Hawk as being fundamentally the same as the Hornet, allowing easier transition of trainee pilot from Hawk to Hornet.

apols, I forgot about this post in the queue of ones I was supposed to respond to.

Supe is correct. The Oz Hawks are "Lead in Fighters". The cockpits were modified to have a cockpit layout similar to the Hornets so as to make transitioning easier. a "mini hornet" for want of a better term.

gf0012-aust

May 14th, 2006, 08:52 PM

:confused::confused:

you haven't replied to my email .

that means that you've been burned by the SPAM filter. I don't normally give out my email address - so the mail filters would automatically dump anything that didn't meet green flag filters.

gf0012-aust

May 14th, 2006, 09:06 PM

india at present doen't need this [ CATOBAR ] feature because we dont have any aircraftcarieer with that system.

Do any of the Indian posters on here seriously think that India never spoke to Russia about the old plans for Ul'yanovsk?

think about it.

why even look at Goshawks when you have Hawks
what is it that Goshawks provide over and above a Hawk (it aint that hard folks!)
Indias ADS is based on what platform?
The Ul'yanovsk used nuke power and was a CATOBAR carrier
Why would India even remotely consider Hornets unless they thought that they were a good naval fit on an indigenous CATOBAR carrier
The French initially were going to get Hornets - in fact there is one Fr Admiral who specifically said it was the carrier aircraft that they should have got to replace the Crusader. The only two modern "real" carrier navies are the US and France. Who are you going to look at for carrier ops and experience. Certainly it is NOT the Russians. They lost the opportunity when the cutters got busy in 1992.
CATOBAR carrier airwings provide real depth of field, time on target, air wing on target and persistence issues over a STOBAR carrierIts important to look at the thiniking involved and the theoretical platorm opportunities. In this case, it shows that someone in IN obviously has considered a different projection and persistence model. The fact that they are looking at trainers, means that this is also being looked at from a "cradle to grave" evolution.

If you start getting IN uniforms visiting their "local NAS" and or getting house visits on USN/USMC wing elements, then I'd be getting even more curious.

Big-E

May 15th, 2006, 04:54 AM

Do any of the Indian posters on here seriously think that India never spoke to Russia about the old plans for Ul'yanovsk?

think about it.

why even look at Goshawks when you have Hawks
what is it that Goshawks provide over and above a Hawk (it aint that hard folks!)
Indias ADS is based on what platform?
The Ul'yanovsk used nuke power and was a CATOBAR carrier
Why would India even remotely consider Hornets unless they thought that they were a good naval fit on an indigenous CATOBAR carrier
The French initially were going to get Hornets - in fact there is one Fr Admiral who specifically said it was the carrier aircraft that they should have got to replace the Crusader. The only two modern "real" carrier navies are the US and France. Who are you going to look at for carrier ops and experience. Certainly it is NOT the Russians. They lost the opportunity when the cutters got busy in 1992.
CATOBAR carrier airwings provide real depth of field, time on target, air wing on target and persistence issues over a STOBAR carrierIts important to look at the thiniking involved and the theoretical platorm opportunities. In this case, it shows that someone in IN obviously has considered a different projection and persistence model. The fact that they are looking at trainers, means that this is also being looked at from a "cradle to grave" evolution.

If you start getting IN uniforms visiting their "local NAS" and or getting house visits on USN/USMC wing elements, then I'd be getting even more curious.

Now I'm confused. :confused: I thought the IN was going with MIG-29s for the ADS and the Gorshkov refit. Are they getting Super Bugs instead? I haven't seen any IN reps at SWATLANT bases FYI.

gf0012-aust

May 15th, 2006, 05:12 AM

Now I'm confused. :confused: I thought the IN was going with MIG-29s for the ADS and the Gorshkov refit. Are they getting Super Bugs instead? I haven't seen any IN reps at SWATLANT bases FYI.

I'm just revving up the discussion by throwing in a few curves.. ;)

aaaditya

May 24th, 2006, 11:45 PM

hey guys seems that indian navy's eastern naval command will now acquire a new naval base comparable to the karwar,this must be the rumored rambilli -gangavaram naval base.

Another naval base in the offing

Staff Reporter
A base in 5,000 acres south of Visakhapatnam is being looked into, says chief

http://www.hindu.com/2006/05/25/images/2006052515830401.jpg
MORE PUNCH: Admiral Arun Prakash, Chief of Naval Staff, reviewing a parade at an investiture ceremony held at INS Circar grounds in Visakhapatnam on Wednesday. Vice-Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Naval Command, is at his right.— Photo: C.V. Subrahmanyam

VISAKHAPATNAM: The Navy is in the process of taking possession of 5,000 acres near Visakhapatnam for developing an additional naval base in the Eastern Naval Command.
Confirming this during a chat with reporters here on Wednesday, Admiral Arun Prakash, Chief of Naval Staff, said they were looking towards the south of Visakhapatnam for the new base as the existing one had become crowded.
``We have a narrow entrance to the port. Hence, we want to build the base, south of Visakhapatnam with all the required infrastructure. The response from the Andhra Pradesh Government is very positive,'' he stated.
The Chief of Navy said negotiations were on in the process for the relocation of the villagers and payment of compensation to them as part of rehabilitation and resettlement policy.
Navy's submarine arm headquarters and marine commandos training centre are located in Visakhapatnam.
Blue water Navy

Admiral Arun Prakash said they had prepared a roadmap to develop a true blue water Navy by 2015 with two aircraft carriers, escorting ships and advanced capability in anti-aircraft, submarine and amphibious capability.
He said plans were in place for next 15 years including some short-term plans to augment the capacity of the Navy. The Government had also accorded in-principle clearance to the proposals. "We are very happy that the Navy has been given 17.5 per cent of Defence budget which is quite adequate,'' he remarked.

here check out this link:
http://www.hindu.com

suryaaa

May 25th, 2006, 10:51 AM

guys what is the current status of seabird is it complete .i heard about its first phase was on track a year befor.:fly

i have one basic question ,actualy what can we expect in such bases ,i mean will their be comand centre for all wing's of armed forces,will their be nuclear
comand centre................:confused:

vrus

May 25th, 2006, 02:09 PM

suryaaa

May 26th, 2006, 04:25 AM

Umm. What is this seabird you are talking about ?

I don't think the nuclear command centre will be on the shore. It will probably be just to serve as a dock for some more navy ships. That's what I think.

buddy sea bird is an integrated strategic naval base which indian navy is constructing at Karwar in Karnataka.it will be the biggest base and one which is away from comercial ports.first phase of this base has already begun.current status i dont know

here is the link

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Articles/Article18.html

aaaditya

May 26th, 2006, 05:38 AM

buddy sea bird is an integrated strategic naval base which indian navy is constructing at Karwar in Karnataka.it will be the biggest base and one which is away from comercial ports.first phase of this base has already begun.current status i dont know

here is the link

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Articles/Article18.html

the first phase has already been completed and the base is operational,the second and third phase are still going on.

aaaditya

May 26th, 2006, 05:42 AM

hey guys here is an interesting news article,seems that france and india will jointly operate in the persian gulf,by the way guys does france have any naval base in the persian gulf or of the coast of africa.

here chack out this link:

http://www.indiareacts.com/nati2.asp?recno=3672

Indo-French naval presence in Gulf likely

25 May 2006: France is actively considering an option to jointly deploy its navy with India’s in the Persian Gulf by early next year and is keen to sign a special agreement by October.

France is looking for an Asian partner to increase its presence in the Persian Gulf and it plans to conduct anti-terrorism sea patrols with India.

India has shown interest about the proposal but is yet to give consent on the parameters of joint tasking.

The French proposal suggests that long distance sea patrols can start from the Gulf of Aden and end at its islands on the African coast.

The French navy has already agreed to experimentally deploy a joint patrol team with the Indian Navy this year.

gf0012-aust

May 26th, 2006, 05:48 AM

Has the Andomans been fully restored to operational levels?

Big-E

May 26th, 2006, 06:18 AM

aaaditya

May 27th, 2006, 12:02 AM

Has the Andomans been fully restored to operational levels?

do you mean the carnic base(car nicobar base) ,carnic is an airbase ,it was made operational within 3 months of the tsunami and has also been improved,it can now acomodate the il76's ,i believe a squadron of su30's and jaguars are deployed there.

as far as port blair is concerned ,it was not affected by the tsunami and was used for the rescue and relief works on carnic.

Deeps_rock

May 29th, 2006, 09:43 AM

A British nuclear task force is engaging the Indian navy in the biggest naval exercises between the two sides in four decades.

'Konkan 2006' is a sign of just how important India is being seen as a major international military force.

Exercises like these, which were unthinkable till a few years ago, reflect the new strategic equation between India and countries like the UK and the US.
http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Indo-UK%20Naval%20exercises%20underway

XEROX

May 29th, 2006, 10:57 AM

Does anyone know why their their seems to be a French ship in the exercise:confused:

Grand Danois

May 29th, 2006, 11:29 AM

Does anyone know why their their seems to be a French ship in the exercise:confused:

France and UK swaps destroyers for their carrier battlegroups. Here is an amusing Googletranslation from Mer et Marine.

A second Franco-British air and sea group puts the course on the Indian Ocean
05/04/2006

The French frigate Surcouf installed yesterday for a three months mission in Indian Ocean. The ship is integrated into a British force deployed to fight against the illicit traffics and international terrorism (mission Aquila 06). Surcouf will sail in company of the Ilustrious aircraft carrier, the destroyer Gloucester missile launcher (Standard 42) and of the general-purpose supply craft Fort Victoria. This formation will be reinforced, at the end of May, by the nuclear submarine of Sovereign attack and the supply craft of Diligence platforms. Exercises with the marines Omani (Magic Carpet) and Indian (Konkan 06) are envisaged in May. The deployment of the French frigate “lies within the scope of the Franco-British relations aiming at strengthening the co-operation of the two navy and to improve interworking of it”, underlines the national Navy.
A British frigate, the HMS Lancaster (Standard 23), is currently integrated into the French air and sea group, present in Indian Ocean until June (mission Agapanthe 06).

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meretmarine.com%2Fart icle.cfm%3Fid%3D1479&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

renjer

May 30th, 2006, 02:32 AM

gf, either you have a crystal ball or you are on the editorial staff (just kidding). I guess Big-E might actual be meeting some of these gentlemen.

After Hawk AJTs for air force, will it be Goshawk for navy?
IANS
Tue, 30 May 2006, 00:05

NEW DELHI: The US is offering to the Indian Navy the latest version of its T-45C Goshawk trainer aircraft, the naval version of the British BAe Hawk that the Indian Air Force (IAF) is purchasing.

Boeing, which manufactures the Goshawk in collaboration with BAe Systems, sent a high-level team to India last week to formally offer this aircraft, in addition to the F-18 Super Hornet that it wants to sell to the IAF to meet its multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) requirement of 126 jets.

Chris Chadwick, Boeing's vice president and general manager for global strike systems, said India was wide on the US horizon and that the best of American technology was on offer in view of the newly emerging strategic equations between the two countries.

Cooperation between the two countries could cover the latest equipment for the Indian Army, Indian Navy and the Indian Air Force - as well as space.

India needs trainers for the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov that it is buying from Russia. Ironically, as the Russians could not extend carrier landing training to the Indian Navy, it had to go to the US - and that has provided Washington the opportunity to offer the Goshawk to the Indian Navy.

Thirty-two Indian Navy pilots have been assigned to receive carrier takeoff-and-landing training at the US Navy's Pensacola Naval Air Station, Florida, where all US naval pilots are given initial and advanced training. The Indian pilots are being sent in batches of four, beginning earlier this year.

The US is looking for "interoperability" with the Indian forces for commonality in weapons and systems. It was with this in view that the Pentagon offered to train Indian naval pilots.

New Delhi had to accept the offer as Russia was unable to come up with carrier deck training. Admiral Gorshkov is due for delivery to the Indian Navy in 2008 along with a complement of 16 MiG 29K carrier-based fighters.

Boeing says that as the IAF is buying 66 Hawk advanced jet trainers (AJTs) from Britain, it would be cost-effective for the Indian Navy to go in for the Goshawk as there is a substantial commonality of parts between them. Rolls Royce's Adour engines power both aircraft, and although they are different models, many of their sub-assemblies are common.

Adour engines also power the IAF fleet of Jaguars that are made by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

The US Navy had selected the Hawk for training its pilots but as deck-based operations need sturdier airframes, the aircraft was suitably modified. The latest model T-45C has digital avionics and its training programme covers classroom instructions to simulators, initial and advanced carrier-based operations. The aircraft can also carry some weapons if required.

Boeing is responsible for the forward fuselage and stabilizers, assembly and systems integration, production test flights and maintenance. BAe produces the wings and the centre and rear fuselage while Rolls Royce makes the engines.

Some 170 Goshawks have been delivered to the US Navy, with 100 more in the pipeline. It is likely to be in operation beyond 2030.

As for the Indian Navy, its pilots have so far received advanced training on Harrier jump jets.

Unlike the AJTs for the IAF, two-thirds of which would be made in India under licence at HAL, the navy's requirement of trainer aircraft should not normally exceed a squadron, or about 20. Thus they are likely to be purchased outright.

Here is the link:

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_006198.php

gf0012-aust

May 30th, 2006, 02:56 AM

gf, either you have a crystal ball or you are on the editorial staff (just kidding).

It was a process of deductive elimination. eg, look at the plane, look at its role and then compare it against what the Indians require and are deficient in. ;)

what will be interesting is whether India goes to a full CATOBAR design on their carrier.

that would enable them to lift squadron launch rates, lift weapons carriage per plane, extend the mission time, extend time on target, get a flight up as a group faster than STOBAR and a few other bits and pieces which I have no doubt that Big-E will add in as well.

interesting times ahead.

powerslavenegi

May 30th, 2006, 06:39 AM

It was a process of deductive elimination. eg, look at the plane, look at its role and then compare it against what the Indians require and are deficient in. ;)

what will be interesting is whether India goes to a full CATOBAR design on their carrier.

that would enable them to lift squadron launch rates, lift weapons carriage per plane, extend the mission time, extend time on target, get a flight up as a group faster than STOBAR and a few other bits and pieces which I have no doubt that Big-E will add in as well.

interesting times ahead.

Having followed the recent developments in relation to acqusition of Adm. Gorshkov ,I believe that it would operate a batch of Mig-29k's in a STOBAR configuration,for the carrier has a 14.3 deg ski-jump on the bow and three arrester wires.India has opertated INS Vikrant(HMS HERCULES) & INS Viraat(HMS Hermes) in the past both having a ski-jump and the former using a STOBAR config hence it would be a more obvious choice for the Indian Navy.

gf0012-aust

May 30th, 2006, 07:27 AM

Having followed the recent developments in relation to acqusition of Adm. Gorshkov ,I believe that it would operate a batch of Mig-29k's in a STOBAR configuration,for the carrier has a 14.3 deg ski-jump on the bow and three arrester wires.India has opertated INS Vikrant(HMS HERCULES) & INS Viraat(HMS Hermes) in the past both having a ski-jump and the former using a STOBAR config hence it would be a more obvious choice for the Indian Navy.

I agree that STOBAR is more likely, but the reality is that CATOBAR provides some distinct advantages as per my prev:

lift squadron launch rates,
lower vessel speeds for launch,
lift weapons carriage per plane,
extend the mission time,
extend time on target,
get a flight up as a group faster than STOBAR etc etc etc.....
ipso facto - better overall projection in force sooner rather than later.

XEROX

May 30th, 2006, 11:01 AM

The Naval LCA is at present, intended for STOBAR, so the ADS carrier is most likly to be designed for short take off and AR, i dont know about INS Gorshy maybe it could be configured for STOBAR??

GF, isnt STOBAR an American technology used only by the USN and the French Navy??

aaaditya

June 1st, 2006, 12:06 PM

hey guys eads has offered india a naval variant of its airbus a319 as a competitor against the p8mma.

here check out this link:

flightglobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/05/30/Navigation/177/206931/EADS+proposes+maritime+variant+of+Airbus+A319+with +bomb+bay+doors+for.html)

aaaditya

June 1st, 2006, 02:47 PM

hey guys here are the contenders for the indian navy's maritime patrol helicopter deal.

check out this link:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/05/30/Navigation/177/206956/EC725,+NH90+S-70B+and+MH-60R+in+frame+as+Indian+navy+starts+hunt+for+anti-submarine+warfare.html

The Indian navy has begun evaluating four proposals for its anti-submarine warfare (ASW) helicopter replacement requirement, writes Brendan Sobie.
Industry sources say bids have been submitted by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) offering the Eurocopter EC725, NH Industries the NH90, Sikorsky the S-70B and by the US Navy for the new Sikorsky-built, Lockheed Martin integrated MH-60R.
The Indian navy is looking to replace its ageing Westland Sea King fleet, which when delivered in the 1980s consisted of over 40 aircraft, and initially plans to acquire 16 replacements and take eight options. The navy will conduct field evaluations after finishing technical evaluations, but the manufacturers have not yet been provided with a schedule for site visits. A contract could be signed as early as next year, but sources say the navy may opt to delay the acquisition and instead buy a proposed 10t indigenous helicopter from HAL.
The Indian manufacturer plans to select a foreign company to help it launch a five-year indigenous development or co-development programme. Sources say Eurocopter and Sikorsky are now preparing proposals, which will be submitted to HAL around mid-year. Sources say Bell also met with HAL earlier this year to discuss co-developing a new helicopter that would have expanded Bell’s portfolio into the 10t category, but the US manufacturer has decided against submitting a bid.
AgustaWestland, which did not respond to the navy’s tender because its EH101 is too large for the requirement, is also unlikely to submit a bid for the HAL project.
Sources say Eurocopter is the frontrunner over Sikorsky because it has already teamed with HAL to offer the EC725 in response to the navy’s tender and the duo is also planning joint bids for other Indian helicopter acquisition prog

zoolander

June 1st, 2006, 05:48 PM

dabrownguy

June 1st, 2006, 08:12 PM

What kind of torpedoes? The ones on Delhi, Rajput, Talway etc.. are 533 mm's. Did you want bigger ones?

aaaditya

June 2nd, 2006, 09:52 AM

speaking of anti sub warfare.. what weapons does india have?

i know they have anti sub rockets but thats just a joke .

they have a abundance of anti sub air planes but do they pocess a anti sub missile or decent torpedos?

among indigenous torpedoes indian navy has indigenously designed nstl long range thermal torpedo and the shneya light weight digital torpedo (based on an italian design).

the indian navy also uses russian torpedos for its capital warships and submarines ,these torpedos are type 53-65 passive wake homin torpedos
(range 19kms at 45knots and capable of carrying a 305kg warhead),type 71-76 active/passive homing torpedos(this is an anti submarine torpedo having a range of 15kms at 45 knots and 20kms @25knots with a 200kgs warhead).

they have recently acquired from russia( test 71-me-nk torpedos ,weight 1820kgs,200kgs warhead and range of 20kms @40knots (20kms@40knots)).

these three types are used on the type 636 kilo class submarines here check out this link:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Sindhugosh.html

the hdw type-209 class of submarines of the indian navy use : aeg-sut mod1 wire guided active/passive homin torpedo(250kms warhead ,range 28kms at 23 knots)

here is the link:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Shishumar.html

recently as per the scorpene deal indian has purchased the wass black shark torpedo (amongst the most modern torpedos it has a range of 50kms @ 50knots) ,india has also decided to acquire with tot the wass mu-90 eurotorp (though i dont know the status of this deal).

here is the link:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Project75.html

the indian naval air arm uses the following air launched torpedos:

indian navy sea king helicopters use- whithead a244s torpedos and the russian apr-2 torpedos.

though the naval bombers can also use torpedos ,i do not have any information about them.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Seaking.html

indian surface warships use the following torpedos as well as anti submarine rockets:

type 15 delhi class(ss-n -15 and ss-n-16 anti ship/anti submarine missiles and the rbu6000 anti-submarine rockets)

here are the links:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/ss-n-16.htm

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/ss-n-15.htm

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/RBU-6000.html

the rajput or the kashin2 class are equipped with the set65e and type53-65e torpedos and rbu6000 rockets .
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Rajput.html

the talwar class frigates also use the same torpedos and rockets as the above two.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Talwar.html

the brahmaputra class use the whitehead a244s anti submarine torpedo as well as its locally produced version ,the aet.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Brahmaputra.html

the godavari class use the a244s as well its indian version the nst58.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Godavari.html

it is believed that the indian navy's p17 a vessel uses the rbu6000 rocket launchers capable of firing the 90r anti submarine missiles and the 91r e2 missile can also be used for the anti submarine purposes (a variant of the klub cruise missiles carrying a torpedo in place of a warhead).

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Project17.html

there have also been reports that kazhakistan has offered india joint development of two types of next generation torpedos called as the krazy and the kinzhald ,no information is available regarding these torpedos except that they are unique and are intended to replace all the older russian torpedos and that the indian navy is realy interested in them.

aaaditya

June 2nd, 2006, 10:08 AM

here is some additional information on the indigenous torpedo projects ,the heavy weight torpedos are known as the (thermal torpedo-thakshak),heavy weight torpedo -varunastra).

here is the link:

http://drdo.org/labs/nr&d/nstl/achieve.shtml

India : India is known to use HWT in all its Destroyers(Delhi, Rajput class ) as well as in its Kilo class Submarine , The Standard Wire Guided heavy weight used by the Russian and Indian Navy is the Test-71 and its Test-96( Test = Teleupravlyayannaya Torpedo or tele guided torpedo ) . The current version is the Test-71M and the Export version sold with Project 887 Kilo Type SSK is the Test-71ME, It searches at 24 Knots accelerating at 40 Knots in the Attack Phase and has a range of 15 to 20 km .Its seeker can be shut down to evade decoys . The Utest –71E is the Test-71ME with the Wake Homing added . The successor to the Test-71 is called the Ugst or Udwt and has a thermal engine running on a monopropellant ,similar to Mk 48 or Spearfish. India is also Know to be in the Process or Already has reverse engineered the Type-53cm Wake Homer Torpedoes with Ukranian/Russian help , The Type –53 cm is known to have a speed of more than 50 Knots and a range between 20-25Km .

check out this link ,it contains information about all types of torpedos currently available in the world (an excellent reference material)

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-4/joseph.html

here are some more articles on the indigenous torpedo.

http://www.blonnet.com/2003/03/08/stories/2003030802250500.htm

this article contains information of an indigenous submersibel:
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2006/04/29/stories/2006042902102100.htm

here is some info on the indigenous light weight torpedo :

The lightweight torpedo is 2-3-metre-long and 200kg in weight. It has a range of 6-8km. The heavyweight torpedo is 6-8-metres-long and has a weight of 1,500-2,000kg and a range of 20-30km. It can move at a speed of 40 nautical miles.

http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/72-19430.asp

so india is not short of weapons,it is the platforms that bother them.

aaaditya

June 8th, 2006, 09:27 AM

hey guys seems that the indian navy will acquire 3 more krivak class of stealth warships ,to supplement the three already in service under a 3000 crore ruppees deal.

heer check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/06/08/stories/2006060800032500.htm
Navy completes talks for stealth frigates

Special Correspondent
Deal closed for approximately Rs. 3,000 crore

NEW DELHI: The Navy has completed price negotiations for a major defence import deal aimed at checking the erosion of its force levels.
Having wrapped up the deal for approximately Rs. 3,000 crore, the proposal for purchasing three `Talwar' class stealth frigates from Russia would be put up to the Cabinet Committee on Security for approval. The Navy already has three such frigates that were inducted in 2003 and 2004. They were the first to have some stealth technology to enable detection from enemy radars. The second lot of Talwar class frigates too will have some firsts to its credit. These will be the first brand new platforms to be fitted with the India-Russian cruise missile Brahmos. As was the case with the three commissioned Talwar class frigates, the new ones will also have Indian components. In addition to communication and electric warfare suites, the new boats could also have an indigenous air defence system replacing the Russian Kashtan.

the interesting part is about the indigenous anti air system replacing the kashtan.