Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[gf0012-aust]

It could but it would be slow because it could take time to clear the flight deck?
But none the less its possible i'd imagine. The Russians did it on their Cruiser correct? how fast was it?

The Russians are a classic example of why STOBARs aren't competitive. They had shocking launch rates coupled with the fact that:

1) aircraft could not be max loaded
2) aircraft could not be fully fueled
3) staggered intermittent launches require aircraft to form up whilst all are launched - hence they burn extra fuel waiting for the rest of the flight to form up
4) it takes longer for an aircraft to get to full FMP and launch (and in the Russians case, bear in mind Points 1-3).
5) There is a corresponding reduction in max range as aircraft are burning it up on the STOBAR launch.

Clearing the flight deck does not alter the fact that they're compromised by Points 1-3.

A CATOBAR launch enables:
1) aircraft can be max loaded
2) aircraft can be fully fueled
3) aircraft are launched at FMP
4) aircraft can be rippled - and the flight forms up faster as they form up in pairs faster
5) USN carriers have double the number of launch slots, so they not automatically have double the launch rate, but they also ripple faster

STOBARs can't and don't have the ability to launch faster - it's an inherent limitation.

[dabrownguy]

The Russians primary concern was the USN fighter squads. The Flankers could launch with full AA weapons correct? It has large amount of fuel anyways. I think there secondary concern was strike capability that came short. Russians did play a defensive role correct?
What bothers me is that they never seemed to fix the problem and move on to a complete CATOBAR. The Oreal class still uses a ramp and two cats but they launch some kind of AEW. Anyway these could launch fighters instead?

[gf0012-aust]

The Russians primary concern was the USN fighter squads. The Flankers could launch with full AA weapons correct? It has large amount of fuel anyways. I think there secondary concern was strike capability that came short. Russians did play a defensive role correct?
What bothers me is that they never seemed to fix the problem and move on to a complete CATOBAR. The Oreal class still uses a ramp and two cats but they launch some kind of AEW. Anyway these could launch fighters instead?

There are a few realities that get conveniently ignored wrt to the Gorshkovs. (apart from my earlier comments)

They're touted as a Fleet Air Defence platform and yet they are reliant on a limited endurance helo with an average 120km detection range. This is their EWINT/AEW&C CAP against tactical aircraft. The other issue being of course that the Surface protection elements of the Russian CV/Cruiser concept was also deficient. To improve that requires transition to a UK/French/US model - and then you still have deficient air support.

I don't have a lot of confidence in the viability of a Russian STOBAR that in real terms is a modern day Viraat and yet has no more practical strategic capability than the prev 50 year old STOVL boat.

You just can't convert the ship into a more CV type role - the bunkerage issues alone are enormous. Why do you think that India is going to indigenous ADS designs?

Hybrids are usually never effective designs.

[kingkobra]

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200511151001.htm

Washington, Nov. 15. (PTI): The Pentagon has notified US Congress about a possible lease to India of two P-3C aircraft along with equipment and services as part of a proposed military sale worth US$ 133 millions to strengthen the US-India strategic partnership.

"The proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the US by helping to improve the security of an important ally and to strengthen US -India strategic partnership which continues to be an important force for political stability, peace and economic progress in South Asia," the Defence Department has said yesterday.

The two leased PC-3 aircraft will replace two existing Indian Navy aircraft-- the Soviet built IL38 May--, the Pentagon told Congress, adding India has to replace these fixed wing aircrafts with an airborne operational capability.

"India is capable of absorbing and maintaining these additional aircraft in its inventory," the Pentagon has told Congress.

The notification by the Pentagon to Congress is required by law and does not mean that that the sale has been finalised.

[aaaditya]

finally it has beeen confirmed :

russia will help india in developing its atv class of nuclear attack submarines and warships,this was stated by the indian defence minister pranab mukherjee in an interview on dd news and also with various news papers.

posting the links:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1298043,curpg-4.cms

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=335468

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/nov/16sub.htm

this is perhalps the first time that the indian defence minister has acknowledged the existence of the atv project.

[aaaditya]

well guys hope this news is not true.
but pentagon has cleared india for lease of 2 p3c orions at 133 million dollars.

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=58355

seems pretty expensive for just 2 planes and that too leased.

[dabrownguy]

Would midair refueling and buddy to buddy system help the AC's endurance at sea?

[aaaditya]

Would midair refueling and buddy to buddy system help the AC's endurance at sea?
i doubt it would be that helpfull for aircrafts like orions and large transport aircrafts because their fuel requirements are quite high ,the fuel tanks are much larger and more widely distributed than that of combat aircrafts ,hence the fuelling process will take considerably longer time,however iam sure they can be configured to carry the underwing fuel tanks in order to improve their endurance.

[dabrownguy]

i doubt it would be that helpfull for aircrafts like orions and large transport aircrafts because their fuel requirements are quite high ,the fuel tanks are much larger and more widely distributed than that of combat aircrafts ,hence the fuelling process will take considerably longer time,however iam sure they can be configured to carry the underwing fuel tanks in order to improve their endurance.
I was talking more about MiG-29K since they already have short fuel supply.
The buddy to buddy system. I have heard Isreali's have a command system that automatically picks out the ideal time to refuel aircraft.

[aaaditya]

I was talking more about MiG-29K since they already have short fuel supply.
The buddy to buddy system. I have heard Isreali's have a command system that automatically picks out the ideal time to refuel aircraft.

well the mig29k definitely has provisions for inflight refuelling,though i doubt if india has any system comparable to what the israelis have.

[dabrownguy]

well the mig29k definitely has provisions for inflight refuelling,though i doubt if india has any system comparable to what the israelis have.
The Isrealis modeled C41 after Norad. The IAF just gave Israel some cold grean cash for a C41 system. Not sure what though and it's not like IAF will tell soon.

[aaaditya]

well the mig29k's are naval aircraft and hence will be primarily capable of being controlled by the indian navy is c4i and compatible with the joint forces c4i ,but as of now i dont think the naval command control systems have been integrated with that of airforce and navy.

[aaaditya]

hey guys this came in todays news that the land based prototype of atv's nuclear reactor has been operation since december 2004 at kalpakkam in chennai.it uses high enriched uranium and can produce upto 100mws.since land prototype has been developed i wish it can also be modified for use on surface ships.
here is the link:

http://www.hindu.com/2005/11/25/stories/2005112502201400.htm

[aaaditya]

seems indian navy is interested in acquiring more talwars,i hope they can join with the us in developing the lcs ships ,they seem realy cool and capable warships.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=82664

[BLACKDRONZER]

seems indian navy is interested in acquiring more talwars,i hope they can join with the us in developing the lcs ships ,they seem realy cool and capable warships.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=82664
aaaditya i dont think india is going to indulge in any projects with US .As we all no what kind of ally will be US :gun to india ,considering our past relation ship with them (in 1971 war with pak they actualy supplied weapons to pak,(ref:bharath-rakshak)).

[aaaditya]

now this is an interesting article,seems china is now going to participate in a joint naval excercise with india.
will it be the same fleet currently excercising with pakistan?

India, China to conduct joint naval drills

The Indian Navy is gearing up for a rare engagement next week with Chinese warships in Indian waters that will reflect a growing thaw in bilateral military ties despite an unsettled border dispute between the two countries.

The Chinese missile destroyer Shenzhen and supply ship Weishanhu will conduct naval drills with Indian warships in waters off Kochi in Kerala, marking only the second joint military exercise between the two sides. But it will be the first time that Chinese forces will join manoeuvres in Indian territory.

The Indian Navy top brass is looking forward to the engagement even as the force works to establish itself as a major factor for peace and stability in the Indian Ocean.

"These will be exercises at a very basic level as we still know very little about each other," Indian Navy spokesman Commander Vinay Garg said.

"But such exercises always help to improve military-to-military relations."

The Chinese warships will sail into Indian waters following weeklong manoeuvres with the Pakistani Navy to train for search and rescue missions.

India and China conducted their first joint naval exercise off Shanghai in November 2003, several months after then defence minister George Fernandes and prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited Beijing to boost bilateral ties.

Next week's naval manoeuvres at Kochi will be the latest in a flurry of military drills India has conducted this year with the forces of major nations like France and the US as part of its efforts to establish its role as a regional power.

Earlier this month, US F-16 fighters drilled along with Indian combat jets in West Bengal, while Indian warships conducted a major naval exercise with the French Navy in the waters off Djibouti during a deployment in the Gulf of Aden.

Though military ties between India and China went into a tailspin following their brief but bitter border war in 1962, Beijing has given the clearance to its defence establishment to forge closer ties with India's armed forces.

Chinese experts have described the upcoming naval drills with India as a reflection of the concept of "seeking security through cooperation".

China's Ambassador Sun Yuxi said last month that fighting terrorism and piracy in regional waters could be the focus of future joint military exercises. He also pointed to several other indicators of the burgeoning military relations, including the exchange of observers for exercises and high-level visits.

Indian defence officials admit that the development of military ties with China has been plagued by years of suspicion as well as lesser issues like language.

But they believe India's need to forge greater cooperation with the Chinese Navy to battle piracy and gun-running in regional waters could serve as the springboard for more broad-based ties.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1556191,0008.htm

[aaaditya]

hey guys i just came across this that the indian navy is using an indigenously developed howercraft based on the wing in ground effect called as the foilcat.

Navy using flying hovercraft of IIT engineer
Kolkata | November 27, 2005 11:31:27 AM IST

The Indian Navy has been successfully using the flying hovercraft, developed by a Bengali naval engineer, for patrolling purposes.

The flying hovercraft, developed by engineer Arup Kumar Bose, a graduate from Kharagpur IIT, moves at 100 km per hour on land, air and water.
This craft moves over marshy or hard surface, water and in the air with ground effect. Ground effect is a phenomena, caused when a craft moves close to ground or water (within about 5 feet) at a certain speed, due to trapping a dynamic air cushion, said Mr Bose.
Mr Bose has set up a workshop in the IIT Kharagpur campus to develop this specialised craft for Defence.
''My hovercraft is used by the Defence for patrolling in marshy terrains. It however, could also be used for coastal patrolling and against poacher in forests and to stop smuggling. The craft also be used for tourism well,'' he claimed.
A Naval architect from IIT Kharagpur in 1977, Mr Bose was currently working on another marine craft, which is under construction at IIT Kharagpur, called FOILCAT, IIT sources said.
This is India's first foil-borne catamaran hull vessel, claimed Mr Bose.
The foils are like aircraft wings and the vessel rises up and its weight is dynamically supported by two stainless steels foils after achieving certain speed, he said.
The 'FOLICAT' is being developed in collaboration with the Department of Ocean Engineering and Naval Architecture and the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory of Visakhapatnam, the sources said. The vessel was in its final stage of construction and would be propelled by Rolls Royce waterjets to achieve 40 knots speed. The vessel would be tested at Chilka Lake in Orissa for extensive running trials, the Naval Engineer said.

here is the source:
http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=174163&n_date=20051127&cat=India.

[KGB]

I found this article apparently dated november 29 2005.
http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2005-45-7

"Sea Seal" To Surface in India By Vladimir Petrov The Moscow News

Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin hailed growing defense cooperation with India during a visit by Indian Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee to Moscow where he also met with Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov, who is also the country's defense minister. For his part, Mukherjee praised recent cooperation on defense shipments to India, saying that Russia remained India's number one source of arms. Speaking at a session of the Russian-Indian Intergovernmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation, Mukherjee said the two countries were looking at signing contracts on Russian arms sales to India worth a total of $9 billion. These include Tu-22 strategic bombers, the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, and the Nerpa (Project 971, Sea Seal) multipurpose nuclear-powered submarine. These agreements were described as revolutionary since traditional weapon systems, which have saturated the Indian and Chinese markets, are now being replaced with operational-strategic systems.
Talk about Russia's plans to sell its nuclear powered submarines to India has been going on for at least five years. The first indication that Russia was ready to put an entirely new product on the market was the arrival of a group of Indian military officers at the famous submariner training facility in the town of Sosnovy Bor (the Leningrad region). Now it is known that the submarine slated for delivery to the distant shores is the Nerpa, which is nearing completion at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur shipyard. Delhi, however, would like to get two nuclear-powered subs. The other one will most likely be the Kuguar (Puma) which is under construction at the Severodvinsk shipyard. Both these subs are armed with Granat cruise missiles, designed to engage coastal targets at a distance of up to 3,000 km.

How significantly would this alter the balance of power in the region? Those Akulas are supposedly comparable to 688i in capability.

[aaaditya]

I found this article apparently dated november 29 2005.
http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2005-45-7


"Sea Seal" To Surface in India By Vladimir Petrov The Moscow News

Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin hailed growing defense cooperation with India during a visit by Indian Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee to Moscow where he also met with Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov, who is also the country's defense minister. For his part, Mukherjee praised recent cooperation on defense shipments to India, saying that Russia remained India's number one source of arms. Speaking at a session of the Russian-Indian Intergovernmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation, Mukherjee said the two countries were looking at signing contracts on Russian arms sales to India worth a total of $9 billion. These include Tu-22 strategic bombers, the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, and the Nerpa (Project 971, Sea Seal) multipurpose nuclear-powered submarine. These agreements were described as revolutionary since traditional weapon systems, which have saturated the Indian and Chinese markets, are now being replaced with operational-strategic systems.
Talk about Russia's plans to sell its nuclear powered submarines to India has been going on for at least five years. The first indication that Russia was ready to put an entirely new product on the market was the arrival of a group of Indian military officers at the famous submariner training facility in the town of Sosnovy Bor (the Leningrad region). Now it is known that the submarine slated for delivery to the distant shores is the Nerpa, which is nearing completion at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur shipyard. Delhi, however, would like to get two nuclear-powered subs. The other one will most likely be the Kuguar (Puma) which is under construction at the Severodvinsk shipyard. Both these subs are armed with Granat cruise missiles, designed to engage coastal targets at a distance of up to 3,000 km.


How significantly would this alter the balance of power in the region? Those Akulas are supposedly comparable to 688i in capability.








first of all these nuclear submarines will not be equipped with granat missiles since these missiles violate the mtcr(most probably they will be equipped with the brahmos and the klub cruise missiles.)
this deal also involves the amur class on next generation conventional stealth attack submarines with full transfer of technology to manufacture these submarines indigenously in india by the larsen and toubro and the kirloskar marine engines at haldia.

[XEROX]

1. Only Nerpa, i though their was 2 SSN with an option for a 3rd

2. I would envisige sagarika arming the Akulas and ATVs

[KGB]

Those mysterious SS-N-19 granat missiles. Not many pictures available but they're believed to be OTH, supersonic (Mach 1.6 to 2.5?), possibly equipped with jamming systems. I'd imagine the russians would prefer to keep those sort of goodies to themselves. Also, it probably works with a satelite network for guidance.

But to the point, does any of India's regional neighbors possess enough ASW capabilities to deal with the likes of a project 971? Witness the effect the HMS Conqueror had during the falklands war

http://xenon.stanford.edu/~lswartz/falklands.pdf

The conqueror didn't need cruise missiles, just WW2 era torpedoes.

[aaaditya]

Those mysterious SS-N-19 granat missiles. Not many pictures available but they're believed to be OTH, supersonic (Mach 1.6 to 2.5?), possibly equipped with jamming systems. I'd imagine the russians would prefer to keep those sort of goodies to themselves. Also, it probably works with a satelite network for guidance.

But to the point, does any of India's regional neighbors possess enough ASW capabilities to deal with the likes of a project 971? Witness the effect the HMS Conqueror had during the falklands war

http://xenon.stanford.edu/~lswartz/falklands.pdf

The conqueror didn't need cruise missiles, just WW2 era torpedoes.
no with the exception of china i dont think any country with which india shares its borders possesses the requisite level of asw capability to take on these submarines,these attack submarines have long range sensors and missile systems which meens that they can strike pakistani naval bases from within indian territorial waters pakistan can use its p3c orions to counter them but then they will have to enter indian territorial waters which would make them vulnerable to indian land based combat aircrafts.the pakistani navy agosta90 is capable of carrying abou16 missiles and torpedoes while the akula is capable of carrying 40 missiles and torpedoes as well as 16 long range cruise missiles.

[aaaditya]

well here is some latest news on the admiral gorshkov:


NAVYAcquired Russian aircraft carrier to arrive in 2008MUMBAI, DEC 1 (PTI)
India's second aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, acquired from Russian Navy, was expected to arrive in Mumbai in the first half of 2008, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Western Naval command, Vice-Admiral Madanjit Singh said here today.
The carrier has undergone several modifications and has been fitted with some Indian equipment, Singh said.
After a year's trials in Russia, the carrier is expected to arrive here in first half of 2008, he said.
"The India's first indigenous aircraft carrier was expected to be ready within eight years. By then, we expect the naval version of LCA to be ready," he added.
The Navy was creating an operational base for UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) near Porbunder in Gujarat, he said adding, land has already been acquired for the project.
The Navy was also evaluating ship-launched version of UAVs, he said.
Asked about China building a new aircraft carrier, Singh said the neighbouring country had improved shipbuilding capabilities.
"Their nuclear submarine programme is a cause of worry for the US," he added.
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=338896

[aaaditya]

by the way guys does anone know if any country has a naval base dedicated to the use of uav's.
iam interested in this because i have just come across an article which states that indian navy will be setting up a base at porbunder for the deployment of uav's,i find it strange that a new base is being created specifically for the deployment of uav's.

[aaaditya]

well guys seems indian navy is creating its own string of pearls in order to counter china:

check out this link for more info:

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=83064

indian navy has signed a memorandum of understanding with 11 ports in the indian ocean region for use of their facilities in the event of a war.

[aaaditya]

hey guys check out the indian navy's massive expansion plans:

27 warships (of various tonnge ranging from the size of small patrol vessels to the destroyers)on order,36 more likey to be acquired,3 more krival class stealth frigates to be acquired from russia,2 dsrv's to be acquired and operationalised in the next 3 years,more uav's ,surveillance helicopters and maritime patrol aircrafts and all this not including the coast guard's acquisitions.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=339091

[KGB]

How much of these aquisitions have ASW capabilities, are these purchases being done with the PLAN's perceived emphasis on submarine development?
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_004328.php

[aaaditya]

How much of these aquisitions have ASW capabilities, are these purchases being done with the PLAN's perceived emphasis on submarine development?
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_004328.php

india has acquired russian stealth corvette design(project ms20382 steregusshiy) for their p28 stealth missile corvettes ,these vessels are considered to have top class asw warfare capabilities and are primarily considered as multi role vessels with asw capability ,these 2500 ton corvettes are being built at grse kolkatta.
also indian navy will be acquiring the russian amur class of submarines ,these will be built in india by larsen and toubro and kirloskar marine engines limited at hazira in west bengal.
india is upgrading its kilo calss submarines to type 636 level and giving them ability to fire missiles,however india found that the indigenously designed sonar ushus was superior to the sonar on the original type 636 kilos and hence chose this sonar over the russians one as well as the indian amara raja batteries.
so india is working heavily on all aspects of its navy not just the asw in order to counter the chinese.

[KGB]

The amurs india is acquiring; will these be equipped with AIP? And if so, what AIP system will they be getting? Sweden and Germany offer AIP retrofits, while Russia hasn't come out with a proven AIP system yet.

[aaaditya]

How much of these aquisitions have ASW capabilities, are these purchases being done with the PLAN's perceived emphasis on submarine development?
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_004328.php


hey man check out this article it will give you some info on the extent which india is going to find out about the chinese submarine capability:

http://dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1000163
can you believe it guys,the tu142 has an endurance of 16 hours.

[dronzer]

By 2012 india will have two aicraftcariers in their side ,but according to navy chief :they must have atlest 3 cariers to satisfy their needs. Before the begining indigenous carier ,their was proposal to build two 20,000 tone (approx) carriers .Is their any info about india building their third carrier.

[aaaditya]

the second one is to b built after this first ads and will also be of 37000-40000 ton displacement,governement sanctioned in principle 3 aircraft carriers(the third one to replace gorshkov).all of them will be built at the cochin shipyards limited.

[aaaditya]

The amurs india is acquiring; will these be equipped with AIP? And if so, what AIP system will they be getting? Sweden and Germany offer AIP retrofits, while Russia hasn't come out with a proven AIP system yet.
the russians have an aip known as the kristal which will be offered later but most likely the first batch will deisel powered since india is not confident about the concept of aip,that is the reason why they chose the conventional version of the scorpene with the option of installing the mesma or any other aip at a later date as part of a refit.
the kristal is believed to be comparable in terms of technology to the german fuel cells.

[ajaybhutani]

the russians have an aip known as the kristal which will be offered later but most likely the first batch will deisel powered since india is not confident about the concept of aip,that is the reason why they chose the conventional version of the scorpene with the option of installing the mesma or any other aip at a later date as part of a refit.
the kristal is believed to be comparable in terms of technology to the german fuel cells.
but a very imp point to note is that russians market the technologies even before their development is complete. is there any russian sub/russian delivery of kristal.. as that would determine the extent at which kristal has been developed..

[KGB]

The russians were actually one of the first to explore AIP technology, they comissioned a few boats in the 50's. The boats were so dangerous that they were abandoned. It would take a lot for the soviets to abandon a sub - the K-19 for example was refitted and sent back to sea AFTER the near nuclear meltdown which killed some of its crew. The tough hombres in the soviet navy took their risks in some rather dangerous boats but backed down from their initial AIP experiments.

The website of the company that makes the AIP units for the Gottland class actually claims that they can retrofit most diesel subs with their AIP system.

[dronzer]

the second one is to b built after this first ads and will also be of 37000-40000 ton displacement,governement sanctioned in principle 3 aircraft carriers(the third one to replace gorshkov).all of them will be built at the cochin shipyards limited.
can you please give me some links to that.

[aaaditya]

can you please give me some links to that.
iam sorry but it is a pretty old news ,however i will try to search for the news article,but the problem is that these news articles are posted in other forums and iam not permitted to post the links of other forums.

[ajaybhutani]

can you please give me some links to that.
i read the same news in TOI delhi edition more than a year ago. apparently they will start the second ship after one is complete

[kashifshahzad]

Indian Aircraft Carriers are just extra and they are Just spending a lot of money on then in the maintainance and in the purchases.What do India wants to do with them do they want to use them againt their neighbours.Lol they cant be used against neighbours because they would only need the Air and Army to attack them and a bit of Navy (In case of Bangladesh and Pakistan) but if they would use the carrier then it is gonna sink very surely.There are no such enemies of India other then its neighbours, China (on which they cant attack ) and Pakistan ( they cant attack now Pakistan is not nuts) Bangladesh ( what they will get there only they will spend a lot of menoy there nothing else).
All i can understand that India just want to show the world that they are the rising superpower.
Still trying to fly:fly

[ajaybhutani]

Indian Aircraft Carriers are just extra and they are Just spending a lot of money on then in the maintainance and in the purchases.What do India wants to do with them do they want to use them againt their neighbours.Lol they cant be used against neighbours because they would only need the Air and Army to attack them and a bit of Navy (In case of Bangladesh and Pakistan) but if they would use the carrier then it is gonna sink very surely.There are no such enemies of India other then its neighbours, China (on which they cant attack ) and Pakistan ( they cant attack now Pakistan is not nuts) Bangladesh ( what they will get there only they will spend a lot of menoy there nothing else).
All i can understand that India just want to show the world that they are the rising superpower.
Still trying to fly:fly
india is growing fast. and by 2050 it will be amongst the top 3 economies of the world. We need to plan our power keeping the future growth in mind. our military should project our economic strength.
India will play a dominant role in at least indian ocean. and so we need a navy that projects power and commands respect from other navies. Aircraft carriers are more of a power projection than just use. And thats why india needs it.

[vrus]

Indian Aircraft Carriers are just extra and they are Just spending a lot of money on then in the maintainance and in the purchases.What do India wants to do with them do they want to use them againt their neighbours.Lol they cant be used against neighbours because they would only need the Air and Army to attack them and a bit of Navy (In case of Bangladesh and Pakistan) but if they would use the carrier then it is gonna sink very surely.There are no such enemies of India other then its neighbours, China (on which they cant attack ) and Pakistan ( they cant attack now Pakistan is not nuts) Bangladesh ( what they will get there only they will spend a lot of menoy there nothing else).
All i can understand that India just want to show the world that they are the rising superpower.
Still trying to fly:fly

Everything a military does, does not have to mean attacking a neighbour. Like ajay said, to project the capability and superiority of its motherland can also be a role of the military.

[aaaditya]

Indian Aircraft Carriers are just extra and they are Just spending a lot of money on then in the maintainance and in the purchases.What do India wants to do with them do they want to use them againt their neighbours.Lol they cant be used against neighbours because they would only need the Air and Army to attack them and a bit of Navy (In case of Bangladesh and Pakistan) but if they would use the carrier then it is gonna sink very surely.There are no such enemies of India other then its neighbours, China (on which they cant attack ) and Pakistan ( they cant attack now Pakistan is not nuts) Bangladesh ( what they will get there only they will spend a lot of menoy there nothing else).
All i can understand that India just want to show the world that they are the rising superpower.
Still trying to fly:fly

usa already recognises india as a rising superpower,india is sufficiently rich and has a fully developed doctrine for the building,maintainence and operation of aircraft carriers,aircraft carriers can also be used as hospital ships in the event of natural disasters and for the troop transport role,india has used the aircraft carrier with definite success during the 1972 war,india has no intention of attacking pakistan ,bangladesh or china.india no longer bothers about pakistan they are now strengthening their navy to match china in the event of possible confrontation just like china is interested in aircraft carriers to counter usa.
if a country like pakistan possesses aircraft carriers then it can be considered as a waste of infrastructure because pakistan does not have any far flung island terrioteries which india and china have.
aircraft carriers are very usefull for defending /attacking islands as has been proven by the usa during the world war2,britain during the falklands war etc.
besides as long india does not approach other countries with a begging bowl like some of our neighbours do (srilanka,bangladesh) i would not be bothered of india's financial health.

[ajaybhutani]

as long as india doesnot spend more than 3 % of its GDP in defence we shouldnt be worried about its effects on the economy as its gonna be helpful to a large extent.
Lets start with the most controvesial project LCA.
it has given india a complete setup of aeronautical industry. And the effects can be seen today. in the form of russia cooperating in development of military cargo aircraft with india. this plane can save millions that go out from our forex to pay airbus/boeing. And thats just a small example of it.
Even the aircraft carrier project will give us a lot of experience in making ships and that too good ships. who knows after this india might jump on a large scale ship contruction program . like cargo ships oil tankers etc. Adding the the fact that stronger navy protects the interests of india in the indian ocean from where 70% of world trade pass through. ( am i right with the 70% figure ?). check on terrorist activities. help in the time of need like a tsunami. Role of india in the tsunami relief is well known all over the world. in spite of being hit hard by it .. india even helped sri lanka , maldives to a large extent and also to some extent indonesia. all this was done by our navy .. the role of army/AF in relief is also commendable during various earthquakes and other natural disasters. military is not just an investment in saving the country from external threats or power project its our investment to make a strong big force that can act faster than any other organisation( private/public) to help the needy in disasters.

[aaaditya]

i guess india will acquire berthing facilities in china's neighbourhood,the south china sea:

Japan seeks military cooperation with India

12 December 2005: Japan has proposed a military exchange programme to India in which it can use Japanese naval and coastguard bases for joint exercises in the Asia-Pacific region and later upgrade it to trilateral exercise with the US.

In return, Japan wants similar facilitation for the Japanese navy and coastguard in Indian bases, where they can conduct rescue operations, joint exercises against terrorism, and provide security to transport ships.

The proposal has come after the Japanese government decided to increase its military cooperation with India in view of the massive Chinese military build up in the region.

During the East Asia Summit in Kuala Lumpur, Japanese premier Junichiro Koizumi is likely to speak to prime minister Manmohan Singh about political, military and strategic cooperation with India, apart from strengthening economic ties.

Diplomatic sources said that Japan is keen to forge cooperation in “new areas�, very likely in the realm of military technology.

Officials said that cooperation with Australia and Japan and other countries in the region is important for India’s strategic penetration there.

well guys here is the link:

http://www.newsinsight.net/nati2.asp?recno=3577

[aaaditya]

seems now indian navy is now looking to improve its relations with the bangladeshi navy ,here is an article:

http://dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1002415

NEW DELHI: The Indian establishment is hoping to make some headway in its relations with Bangladesh when Navy Chief Admiral Arun Prakash begins a four-day visit to that country on December 17, with the offer of unprecedented bilateral cooperation in naval matters.
According to available indications, Prakash is expected to try and open a new and more robust chapter with the Bangladesh Navy.

He would extend an invitation to their naval ships to visit Indian ports. Right now, there is hardly any visit by their navy, except for the Bangaldeshi participation in annual get together of regional navies hosted by India.

Admiral Prakash would also offer Indian technical assistance for repairing Bangladeshi naval ships.

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is some info on the sea wasp engine(a variant of the rd33)being developed for the indian navy mig29k's.

Russia begins trials of Sea Wasp engine for Indian navy

Moscow, Dec. 19 (PTI): Russia today began bench trials of a new jet engine being developed for deck-based fighters for the Indian Navy under 'Admiral Gorshkov' aircraft carrier deal. 'Sea Wasp' engine, being developed by St. Petersburg-based Klimov plant for the Indian version of deck-based MiG-29K fighters, is an upgraded version of RD-33 engine used in earlier MiG-29 jets.
"It has greater thrust and capability to work in all environments including harsh tropical conditions at sea," MiG corporation spokesperson Elena Fyodorova, said. Klimov plant is part of the Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC) MiG.
"The work on the development of the engine for Indian naval jets is moving ahead of schedule by three months," Fyodorova said. Under the Gorshkov aircraft carrier deal, India is to buy two squadrons of MiG-29K, with an option of buying total 60 fighters to be later deployed on indigenous aircraft carrier being built under the Air Defence Ship (ADS) project.

well here is the link:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200512191551.htm

by the way does anyone know the web address of the klimov?

[dronzer]

sorry,i didnt notice

[aaaditya]

:( what happend to every one ?why are you guys not discusing about iaf?


since there is no discusion going on ,i would like bring some old topics whuch not been finalised yet .


mig-29 vs mirage 2005
-----------------------

before is there any improvement in iaf mrca deal.

from what we have discused earlier mrca is a temp replacement for iaf aging ac's.

that means mig or mirage is going to be air superiority ac's.

my ? is which one will be selected.

since mirage has proved its reliability,it has certain edge over mig.

but we have to consider technology,price ,reliability, mig has an edge.

please contribute.:nutkick

because the forum administrators consider it as the ultimate sin to discuss an topic meant for the airforce thread in the navy thread.

in case you did not notice this is a navy thread.

by the way iam just waiting for some concrete developments on the indian mrca front before i can join in a discussion on the mrca.

[aaaditya]

well guys here is avery important news regarding the indian navy:

ISRO gets Rs 400 cr for naval satellite DH News Service New Delhi:
The Central government on Friday granted an additional Rs 400 crore to the Indian Space Research Organisation, which is likely to be spent on India’s first naval satellite.

The clearance was given on Thursday night by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and attended by the defence, home and finance ministers along with their secretaries.

Though Union Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee said on Friday that the allocation was for space development programmes, it is understood that the resources have been sanctioned for making India’s first naval satellite for which the navy has already prepared the ground work in consultation with ISRO. The budget document shows that there is no head called space development programme.

here is the link:

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/dec242005/national19325220051223.asp

and also check this link for the future plans of the indian navy:

http://www.spacewar.com/news/india-05zzz.html

[dronzer]

the future plans of the indian navy:

http://www.spacewar.com/news/india-05zzz.html
`
so navy is realy fierdup to expand its armoury,this expansion will give headache to some nations.In this case what will be their reactions.

about navy's satelite ,in think navy should have got it earlier since it is a very important navigational system,how ever since they are going to get it ,it will give an edge over others.:india

[dronzer]

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/ghost-ship-121205

guys please refer thism link and express your thoughts.

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is an interesting news article about the indian navy having commissioned a dedicated uav squadron.

http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/06/stories/2006010622070400.htm

[dronzer]

hey guys here is an interesting news article about the indian navy having commissioned a dedicated uav squadron.

http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/06/stories/2006010622070400.htm

I have read this in hindu daily news paper .I wonder why navy took so long to make such a squadran of uav's.There is no doubt that it will give navy a plus point in maritime survailance.

About the craft i think both type of aircraft is of israle orginand one more thing dont we suposed to have an indigneous uav.

[aaaditya]

I have read this in hindu daily news paper .I wonder why navy took so long to make such a squadran of uav's.There is no doubt that it will give navy a plus point in maritime survailance.

About the craft i think both type of aircraft is of israle orginand one more thing dont we suposed to have an indigneous uav.

these systems had to be extensively tested for marine environments.they were tested for nearly three years,then the control facilities had to be introduced in the vessels.so naturally it took some time.

[kashifshahzad]

these systems had to be extensively tested for marine environments.they were tested for nearly three years,then the control facilities had to be introduced in the vessels.so naturally it took some time.
Their maximum range can be 200-300 km what will they do in that area.If India has launched its Naval satellite then there is a little importance for these.

[dronzer]

Their maximum range can be 200-300 km what will they do in that area.If India has launched its Naval satellite then there is a little importance for these.

uavs can also be used as weapons platform like americas predator .

[aaaditya]

Their maximum range can be 200-300 km what will they do in that area.If India has launched its Naval satellite then there is a little importance for these.
most importantly they can be used for providing guidance for missiles like the brahmos,they have endurance of nearly 40 hours on station which means that you will not need a helicopter to give surveillance ,this will means that the pilots life will not be put to unaccessary risk.

india is also developing uav's with longer range and endurance with israeli assistance,these are to be known as the gagan,male and pawan,iam sure they will also have naval applications.

the use of uav's provides surveillance ,targetting and communication and intelligence capabilities at considerable distance from the mother ship at much lower cost ,for longer periods of times,without any risk to the pilot,when compared to a helicopter.

even usa and canada have started using a vessel launched vluav,india is also looking for them.

[vrus]

What would be the service ceiling for these UAVs? And if what dronzer said is right, then how much weapons payload can they carry?

[aaaditya]

What would be the service ceiling for these UAVs? And if what dronzer said is right, then how much weapons payload can they carry?

it is not the service ceiling or weapon load that is important,but the endurance ,the hunter has an enduranc eof 40+hours.

harpy being an attack drone has a lower endurance of 4-5hours and acts a missile once you give the command.

this uav is specifically used to destroy enemy radars and battle tanks(top attack).

[aaaditya]

well guys it is confirmed,but indian navy will acquire three more project1135.6 krivack3 class of stealth multirole missile frigates in a deal worth 1 billion dollars from russia.seems the indians are realy impressed with the earlier batch of three frigates.

here is the link and the news article:

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2006/01/12/041.html


State Shipper Wins $1Bln Indian Order
By Staff Writer
State-controlled battleship maker Yantar has won a government tender worth around $1 billion to build three frigates for India, sweeping the deal away from Kremlin-connected financier Sergei Pugachyov.
"The results [of the tender] were announced on Dec. 22 by the inter-ministerial commission. ... The contract signing is now under way between Rosoboronexport and the customer," Yantar first deputy general director Vladimir Kiselyov said from company headquarters in Kaliningrad.
The deal would be worth no less than $1 billion, Kiselyov added.
The Krivak-class frigates on order weigh 4,000 tons, are roughly 125 meters long and are equipped with advanced weapons systems capable of striking naval, aerial and coastal targets.
Rosoboronexport, which negotiates the vast majority of the country's weapons export contracts, was not available for comment Tuesday.
The deal should be signed this year, Kiselyov said, adding that it would take 56 months to deliver the first frigate.
Winning the tender, Yantar beat off St. Petersburg-based rivals Severnaya Verf and Baltiisky Zavod by offering a better delivery schedule and a "better relationship with the Russian Navy," Kiselyov said.
Both Severnaya and Baltiisky are controlled by United Industrial Corp., or OPK. In turn, OPK is owned by Mezhprombank, which is controlled by Pugachyov, who is also a Federation Council senator.
OPK bought Baltiisky last year, ending a long-running rivalry with Severnaya Verf for export contracts. Baltiisky itself had completed a similar deal worth $1 billion with India back in 2004.
Kiselyov said Yantar would build the same class of frigate as Baltiisky. A Mezhprombank spokesman was not able to comment Tuesday.
The Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation with Foreign Countries refused to comment.
"For Yantar, this contract is a real chance to remain a player in the market," said Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a defense think tank. "It looks like the Russian military too would prefer to have competing shipmakers at a time when the government is trying to bring them together."

[aaaditya]

well seems one more indian submarine will be upgraded giving it the missile firing capability,with this i think india has about 7 submarines capable of firing the deadly kilo missiles.

here is the link:

http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=217699&cat=India

[kakarat]

India says no to US P-3C Orion aircraft (http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1616783,0008.htm)
Rahul Bedi (IANS)
New Delhi, February 4, 2006

In a rare 'no' to Washington, the Indian Navy has called off the leasing of two US Navy P-3C Orion maritime reconnaissance aircraft (MRA) on grounds they are too expensive.
The 18-24 months it would take the US Navy to retrofit the two aircraft to the Indian Navy specifications once the lease had been finalised also contributed to New Delhi opting out of the deal.
"The lease (of two P-3C Orions) is timed out. It was expensive and time-consuming," a senior Indian official associated with the lease negotiations said.
The US Navy is believed to have demanded Rs8 billion for the lease via the foreign military sales programme.
Fear of US sanctions, like the ones imposed following India's 1998 nuclear tests that led to the Indian Navy's entire Sea King MK42 fleet being grounded due to a shortage of spares, also influenced the navy's decision, officials indicated.
Sanctions on India -- and Pakistan for its nuclear tests -- were lifted in late 2001.
India's P-3C Orion lease was to be a precursor to purchasing eight others to augment its reconnaissance requirements which the navy presently considers "highly inadequate" for anti-piracy operations, narcotics control and to counter natural and ecological disasters like tsunami's or oil and chemical spills.
In anticipation, P-3C Orion manufacturers Lockheed Martin had signed a non-disclosure technical assistance agreement with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in Bangalore last year to share export controlled data related to technical and commercial proposals to retrofit the MRAs to the Indian Navy's requirements.
The Indian Navy has now sent out to MRA manufacturers in the US, France, Britain and Russia a request for proposals for the outright purchase of eight MRAs.
These will replace a similar number of Tupolev Tu 142 'Bear Foxtrot' MRAs that are being retired after negotiations with Russia and Israel to retrofit them were called off three years ago.
The Indian Navy confirmed that it was also involved in exploratory talks with Boeing Corp for possible involvement in the P-8A MMA it is developing based on the Boeing 737NG platform.
The Indian Navy believes that the P-8A would match the combined operational profile presently being executed by its existing fleet of Ilyushin Il-38 and Tu 142 MRAs.
It also considers its involvement in the Boeing MMA programme an 'evaluation' and 'test' of Washington's long-term military and strategic commitment to India and a possible counter to possible future sanctions.
Washington considers the Indian Navy a stabilising force in the Indian Ocean region and wants a closer working relationship with it as it straddles the strongest area of strategic convergence: sea-lane protection.
The US is also keen that the Indian Navy, which has a formidable presence in the Indian Ocean region, to officially join the Washington-led proliferation security initiative (PSI) which seeks to interdict vessels suspected of carrying weapons of mass destruction and associated equipment.
Meanwhile, the Indian Navy last month received the first of its five Il-38 MRAs upgraded to the Il-38 SD standard and equipped with the Morskoi Amei (Sea Dragon) radar system compatible with the navy's proposed strategic deterrence.
The remaining four similarly upgraded MRAs will be delivered to the Indian Navy by early next year. Two of these aircraft are replacements being provided by Rosonboronexport for the ones that crashed in October 2002.
Currently, the Indian Navy is dependent on its fleet of around 20 Dornier 228 aircraft and Israeli Searcher Mark II and Heron unmanned aerial vehicles to monitor India's 7,516-km long coastline, 1,197 islands and a two-million sq km exclusive economic zone.

[aaaditya]

the best part of this article is that indian navy is interested in the p8mma ,these aircrafts can very effectively replace both the bears and mays,and being based on commercial aircrafts platform ,the spare parts for the aircraft wont be a problem,though i would favour a a321 based solution.

[PLA2025]

I think India must also start to develop more indigenous weapon systems. Of course it takes much time and the first designs might not reach the Western and Russian standards. But if you only rely on foreign technology while don't support own engineers, you will always depend on others. In a conflict where you have to face your weapon supplier, it would mean no more spare parts etc. getting delivered.
China mostly has started to develop plenty of own stuff since the 1980's although the progress was very slow and the technology was still far obsolete to Western and Russian standards.
But there is no need to give up because of slow progress. We can all learn from mistakes and failures. India has obtained some US and Russian weapon systems and if they succeed in reverse-engineer them for understanding the technology, they could start develop from that point on which saves time.

[aaaditya]

well here is the news article on the indo-israeli barak2 missile.
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=62510

[aaaditya]

well heer is an interesting news article.seems that the indian navy managed to successfully spy on a brand new chinese destroyer and a fuel tanker using a tu142 and a uav and also managed to take several images of the warship refuelling from the tanker.

here is the link:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1407022,curpg-2.cms

[tphuang]

I'm guessing this has to be one of the 956EMs or else I can't see why it would travel through Indian Ocean to South China Sea.

[aaaditya]

I'm guessing this has to be one of the 956EMs or else I can't see why it would travel through Indian Ocean to South China Sea.

well the article claims that the warship was the latest sovremenny class of vessel ordered by china.

[pshamim]

In today's time photographing a vassel is not such a big deal. One can use satellites to so any time you want. Question is if IN learnt something new as far as the ship's capabilities are and how to combat it if and when it is needed.

[aaaditya]

well the pointed to be noted shamim is the range of the aircraft which was used for this purpose.

also it would be effective to photograph a ship from space but only if the ship comes within the sphere of influence of the satellite,it would be very expensive and would reduce the life of a satellite considerably if they have to reposistion to get a high resolution image of a ship.

that is the reason why most navies still rely on such mr aircrafts for spying purpose.

[aaaditya]

well here is another news ,indian navy has now commissioned the fast attack craft ins bangaram ,and the grse will now be working on a newer design.

here is the link:

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/feb/10navy.htm

[aaaditya]

well an example of us diplomacy at its best ,they have now sent their aircraft carriers for a drill with the indian navy for the valentines day.

well happy valentines day to them.

here is the link:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060211/asp/nation/story_5832760.asp

[aaaditya]

well guys hare ia an interesting news ,seems that india is planning to set up listening base in madagascar just like china set up at the cocc islands in burma.

here check out this link:

http://www.newsinsight.net/nati2.asp?recno=3615

I N T E L L I G E N C E

Indian Navy to lease station in Madagascar

15 February 2006: The Indian Navy is planning on a high tech monitoring station in Northern Madagascar to combat piracy in the Indian Ocean, terrorism and other crimes.

Crime in the high seas has shot up in the last four years, particularly in the Indian Ocean, but there is lack of timely law enforcement in the absence of infrastructure and coordination among states.

India will pay $2.5 million to lease the station, because it apprehends threats to its strategic naval assets and its political, economic and military interests in Africa, which has become a second base for the Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

[aaaditya]

hey guys,finally the indian navy nuclear submarine project is moving ahead,the preasurised heavy water reactor has been minaturised and some tests would be carried this year.

here check out this link:

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88128



VIZAG/NEW DELHI, FEB 17: With some progress finally made on the compact reactors that will ultimately power the country’s indigenous nuclear submarines, the advanced technology vessel (ATV) project facility at Visakhapatnam is being expanded for crucial tests scheduled for later this year. Speaking off the record, a government source in Visakhapatnam told The Indian Express, ‘‘Efforts to miniaturise the pressurised heavy water reactors that will power the submarines have made some progress, though lot of work is left. The nuclear establishment has conveyed to us that some preliminary tests could be carried out shortly.’’ He only indicated specific movement on the ATV’s dynamometer and drive turbine this year.

Unlike the highly concealed nature of the project itself, it is no secret that Russia is a key partner. However, after functioning under a somewhat unofficial advisory role, sources said Moscow has proposed the possibility of signing an advanced systems pact.



by the way guys can someone tell me what is a dynamometer and do conventional submarines have them.

[aaaditya]

seems us navy is seriously promoting the hawkeye2000 for the indian navy,these are to be shore based and will provide defence for the entire coastline,by the way guys is the hawkeye2000c the best awacs in the world.

here check out this link:

http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.mhtml?d=94527

[aaaditya]

hey guys seems the indian navy will be setting up a second submarine line with private participation,the competition is likely to be between the german hdw214 and the russo-italian submarine.

the russo-italian submarine is to be based on the russian amur lada design will be smaller than the kilo (available in displacements of 900-1850tons depending on the customer requirements),will have an italian designed fuel cells(most probably based on the siemens fuel cells design in use on the italian navy hdw type212 subs),it will have a weapon load comparable with the latest kilo class and the stealth of the scorpene,russia have also offered the integration of the brahmos missile on the amur class of submarines.

here check out this article from defence news:

India Considers New Italian-Russian Submarine

02/20/06 defense news

Link (https://poky.atpco.com/dfn/login.asp?forward=www.defensenews.com%2Fstory.php% 3FF%3D1533635%26C%3Dnavwar)

Indian officials have evaluated a new submarine being jointly designed by Italy and Russia as New Delhi searches for a second sub type to complement the six French Scorpene submarines it contracted for last year.

A high-level Indian Defence Ministry team led by Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutt visited Rome, where Italian Defense Ministry officials provided a classified technical briefing Feb. 13-15. As the submarine is still on the drawing board, it is yet to be named.

A senior Indian Navy official said the new submarine is based on Russia’s Amur-class conventional submarine design and is under joint development between Fincantieri of Italy and Rubin Design Bureau of Russia.

....................

The Italian submarine weighs 1,000 tons and has an independent air propulsion suite. The submarine has not yet been built, but India is the first country to be offered this technology, said the Indian Navy official.

Vice Adm. Madanjit Singh, flag officer commanding-in-chief of the Indian Navy’s Western Command, said the Navy is looking for another type of submarine besides the Scorpene. He said the hunt for the new type of submarine was planned to begin after contracting for the six French Scorpenes last year.

“When we looked at the future submarine plan, a 30-year submarine plan, we had worked out that we have a requirement of two types of submarines for the kind of roles and missions that we expect to deploy them for,” Singh said.
“We had suggested that besides the Scorpene, we should look at another type of submarine, and Amur class was certainly looked at, but we had decided to await the commencement of the Scorpene production before we looked at another line because we do not have the capacity to start the second submarine line.”

.......................

The Indian Navy official said the Italian submarine weighs less but has the same capacity as the Russian Kilo-class subs currently in its inventory and the contracted Scorpene submarines. Because of lesser tonnage, the cost of the Italian submarine would be considerably less then the Scorpenes..

The Navy official said India is also interested in co-production of submarines with other countries and the Italian venture is one such idea.

[P.A.F]

http://www.dawn.com/2006/02/23/int20.htm

India eyes 3 more Russian frigates



By Rajat Pandit
NEW DELHI: Impressed with the sheer lethality of the three Talwar-class “stealth” frigates inducted into the Navy during 2003-2004, India is close to finalising another contract with Russia for three more such warships. The three new frigates, which the Navy hopes to commission within the next five years, will be armed with the 300-km range BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles to enhance “blue-water capabilities”, say sources.

The Navy is already inducting the unique air-breathing BrahMos, which is even capable of carrying nuclear payloads, in its frontline destroyers and frigates, including the three Talwar-class warships — INS Talwar, INS Trishul and INS Tabar.

The 4,000-tonne Talwar frigates, incidentally, already have “a very high weapon and sensor density”, including eight vertical launch cells for the ‘Klub-N’ anti-ship and anti-submarine cruise missiles, with a strike range over 200-km.

With a cruising range of 4,500 nautical miles, these multi-purpose frigates are also designed to carry one heavy-duty Kamov-31 helicopter for early-warning of “incoming threats” for the entire fleet. In effect, they can handle “several threats” in all the three dimensions — air, surface and sub-surface.

The first three Talwar frigates, delivered a couple of years behind schedule due to malfunctioning missile systems, came at a cost of over Rs30 billion as part of the 1997 deal. India settled the issue of “liquidated damages” arising due to the delay by getting Russia to extend guarantees on the warships. “The three follow-on frigates will cost around the same, with of course standard escalation costs. The negotiations with Russia for them should be wrapped up in another month or two,” said sources.

The government has already assured the Navy of funds for the new frigates, basically meant for anti-submarine warfare and air defence of warship groups, as part of the perspective plan to maintain force-levels at around 140 warships.

[aaaditya]

well guys seems india and kazakhstan will jointly develop thermal torpedoes(they claim that these are torpedoes capable of homing onto a heat source,i dont know if that is possible or not),there was a report earlier which mentioned a torpedo named as dastaan-e and now there is a mention of the torpedo named krazy but there is absolutely no information about it.

here check out this link:

http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2370774

On February 10 Galym Orazbakov, president of the state-owned company Kazakhstan Engineering, explained in Astana, "We expect the export of the company's special products to double in 2006," compared to its record in 2005. The key focus of this will be exports to the Indo-Pacific region. "Recently, we held talks with our partners in India and Egypt who are planning to hold tenders for the purchase of arms. The company is planning to take part in these," he added. Although the law on state secrets strictly limits reporting on these issues in Kazakhstan, minimizing transparency in the conduct of the arms industry, Orazbakov indicated that these special products would include depth charges and torpedoes (Interfax, February 10).

Orazbakov's confidence in Kazakhstan Engineering, set up spring 2003 to consolidate 21 mostly machine-building companies, is rooted in the level of demand from the Indo-Pacific region and the number of contracts currently secured with these countries. It also reflects Kazakhstan's intensive diplomacy with these trading partners as well as the positive evaluation placed on the Kazakh products. The export of special products, including torpedoes and depth charges, rose in 2004 by 4%. Orazbakov said, "Historically, we have been carrying out a number of joint projects with India aimed at modernizing and repairing the torpedoes belonging to the Indian Navy. Also, we are designing a new torpedo called Kazy."

However, Orazbakov has identified domestic targets for his next ventures throughout this year, as he looks to capitalize on the trend towards the authorities spending slightly more on defense products for its armed forces and security agencies. Domestic sales of goods have risen by 5.6% compared with 2004, based on the increased demands from President Nursultan Nazarbayev's military reform program. Yet the main features of this domestic rise relate to the Zenit joint stock company producing Sunkar-M military cutters, and the aircraft repair plant No. 405, which repairs military helicopters.

Also on February 10 Kazakh Foreign Minister Kasymzhomart Tokayev held meetings with U.S. ambassador John Ordway, Russian ambassador Vladimir Babichev, and Indian ambassador Ashok Mukherjee in Astana. Predictably the Kazakh Foreign Ministry reported that Tokayev had "discussed expanding bilateral contacts in various areas of cooperation and looked at a wide range of international and regional issues of mutual interest." Yet, Mukherjee presented Tokayev with an invitation to come to India on an official visit this year, signaling greater interest in Delhi for forging stronger links with Kazakhstan and increasing Indian interest in Central Asia (Interfax, February 10).

It is clear that the Indian dimension is central to the hopes for greater sales output from Kazakhstan's defense industries. Indeed a Kazakh delegation recently participated in an international exhibition of land and naval weapons, Defexpo India 2006, in Delhi. Consequently, the Indian government expressed interest in holding talks on procuring torpedoes and mines for the Indian Navy. "The major result for Kazakhstan, which took part in such an exhibition for the first time, is that the Indian Ministry of Defense has expressed an interest in cooperation with our defense companies. In the future, talks can be conducted on selling Kazakh torpedoes and naval mines to India," a spokesman for the Indian Ministry of Defense confirmed (Khabar TV, February 6).

The Indian Navy is currently equipped with hundreds of torpedoes that were produced in Kazakhstan during the Soviet era. Kazakhstan's specialists in this field are clearly hoping to foster their own niche within the naval arms market. Sources within the Indian firm Larsen and Toubro believe that production of such arms could shift to plants in India, with Kazakh expertise and supervision.


http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/8E45690AB55F861C65257123005C1A56?OpenDocument

Kazakistan in talks with India to provide marine-type weaponry

http://www.ptinews.com/icons/ecblank.gifhttp://www.ptinews.com/icons/ecblank.gifhttp://www.ptinews.com/icons/ecblank.gif
Chandigarh, Feb 28 (PTI) Kazakhstan is negotiating with India to provide its sophisticated marine-type weaponry and both the countries are going to have a Joint Working Group in April to enhance defence cooperation, Kazakhstan Ambassador Kairat Umarov said today.
"Negotiations are going on. At the moment I can't divulge many details, but the process is on," Umarov told PTI on the sidelines of a lecture delivered by him on "Kazakhstan-India Relations: Cooperation in Economic and Energy Sectors" at the Centre for Research in Rural and Industrial Development here.

The Ambassador said there were other "unique technologies" which his country could offer to India.

Noting there was a lot of scope to further strengthen the ties between the two nations, Umarov said his country was looking forward to India's participation at the Conference on confidence building measures in Asia to be held in Kazakhstan later this year, an event in which 17 Asian nations will be taking part.

Inviting Indian companies to come and invest in Kazakhstan, he said there was a vast scope for cooperation in various fields including manufacturing sectors such as textiles, construction materials, leatherwear, plastics, pharma sector, IT, oil,gas and tourism. PTI

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20031111/nation.htm#19



India to develop thermal torpedoes
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, November 10
In a bid to further improve relations with the Central Asian republics India has agreed to explore the possibility of joint research and development of the thermal torpedoes with Kazakhstan which would be of use of the navies of the two countries.
India and Kyrgystan on the other hand are exploring the possibility of testing the torpedoes from the facility available in the Central Asian Republic.
The two issues were discussed during the four-day recent visit of Defence Minister George Fernandes to Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. Mr Fernandes returned from the two nation tour only yesterday.
An official release issued here today said that India and Kazakhstan would explore the possibilities of joint research and development in the field of thermal torpedoes. The torpedoes thus developed would work on the heat seeking formula and would possibly be fired with the help of thermal imagers.
Sources here said that the scientists from the country’s Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) and from Kazakhstan would work out the further arrangements for the joint research and development. The two countries would also undertake joint cooperation in the field of naval armaments. In Kazakhstan, Mr Fernandes also held talks on bilateral cooperation in areas of joint exercises, military training, jungle warfare and information technology. The Defence Minister met the Prime Minister, Defence Minister and the Industry Minister of Kazakhstan. In Kyrgyzstan also Mr Fernandes held talks on bilateral cooperation in military training, information technology.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/graphics/top.gif (http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20031111/nation.htm#top)


can anyone give any more info on the concept of thermal torpedoes.

[aaaditya]

well guys this is a bit dated article but gives some valuable information on india's indigenous thermal torpedo known as the thakshak and indigenous uuv.

check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2004/02/29/stories/2004022909860300.htm

[aaaditya]

well seems that india is looking at the super hornets,sea hawk and sea king helicopters for acquisition from us,the sea kings will be used on the uss trenton which india will be acquiring in 12 montshs time.

here check out this link:

http://www.dcmilitary.com/navy/tester/11_09/national_news/39959-1.html

[zoolander]

Other than its carriers and some new dehli destroyers and russian frigates, India's navy is very old. In fact the stuff i mentioned above are old designs but capable.

India has money to spend but no money to spend it in their own country.

They have very poor ship building industry. Their production rate is really slow.

To modernize they need to built up this industry. At this rate the Dehli class destroyer will take years to deploy

[aaaditya]

Other than its carriers and some new dehli destroyers and russian frigates, India's navy is very old. In fact the stuff i mentioned above are old designs but capable.

India has money to spend but no money to spend it in their own country.

They have very poor ship building industry. Their production rate is really slow.

To modernize they need to built up this industry. At this rate the Dehli class destroyer will take years to deploy

buddy you are living in the past,all warships of the delhi class have been commissioned(3ships,ins delhi,ins mysore and ins mumbai),currently 26 warships for the navy are under construction ,the govt has sanctioned in principal the construction of 34 more ships for the navy and the strength of the coast guard is to be increased from the present 60 crafts to 200 by 2020.the times for the construction of warships has been drastically reduced as most yards now use modular construction techniques.

[aaaditya]

well guys hare ia an interesting news ,seems that india is planning to set up listening base in madagascar just like china set up at the cocc islands in burma.

here check out this link:

http://www.newsinsight.net/nati2.asp?recno=3615

I N T E L L I G E N C E

Indian Navy to lease station in Madagascar

15 February 2006: The Indian Navy is planning on a high tech monitoring station in Northern Madagascar to combat piracy in the Indian Ocean, terrorism and other crimes.

Crime in the high seas has shot up in the last four years, particularly in the Indian Ocean, but there is lack of timely law enforcement in the absence of infrastructure and coordination among states.

India will pay $2.5 million to lease the station, because it apprehends threats to its strategic naval assets and its political, economic and military interests in Africa, which has become a second base for the Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

hey guys here is a more detailed article on the above news highlighting the necessity for the navy to set up this facility.

here check out this link:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HC03Df02.html

[zoolander]

I thought they were going to built 6. I guess i am not so up to date on stuff. Its nice they are combating pirates and etc but India needs more ship yards and etc.

Did they put the Bahmos on the Dehlis yet?

[aaaditya]

I thought they were going to built 6. I guess i am not so up to date on stuff. Its nice they are combating pirates and etc but India needs more ship yards and etc.

Did they put the Bahmos on the Dehlis yet?

i dont think that they have installed any brahmos on delhi class yet,currently the older kashin class are being equipped with the brahmos.

there are several shipyards in india which cater to the navy and the coast guard.

mazagon docks india limited-mumbai(warships and submarines for the navy,patrol vessels for the coast guard,floating border outposts for the bsf )

goa shipyuards limited-goa(medium sized warships upto corvette size and mcmv's and auxillary vessels for the navy and patrol vessels for the coast guard)

garden reach shipbuilders and engineers limited-kolkata(frigates,corvettes,lst's,lhd's and auxillary support vessels for the navy)

hindustan shipyards limited-vizag(patrol vessels for the navy and coast guard and the atv class nuclear attack submarine)

cochin shipyards limited-cochin(aircraft carrier)

the above ones are goverment controlled.

there are also several private companies:

larsen and toubro india limited-set by the swedish engineers larsen and toubro they are amongst the top engineering companies of the world,you can call them indian ge sice they are highly multidimensional-they have branches all over india-are to build the russian amur lada submarines at hazira in west bengal along with kirloskar marine engines limited for the navy,have also designed the lst's being built by the grse,and air cushioned catamarans for naval,coast guard and civil use.

anderson marine india limited-orrisa-they gun crafts and interceptor crafts exclusively for the coast guard.

abl shipyards limited -surat-manufactures 3300 ton pcv's under licence from the rolls royce for the indian coast guard.

besides this there are several companies waiting in line to develop naval vessels for the indian navy and coast guard(tata,another private company whose name i have forgotten).

the govt also has plans to set up a shipbuilding facility on the lines of mdl at the new naval base at karwar,set up a second naval base on the lines of karwar at a place called as rambilli on the east coast(karwar is on the west coast)

and to set up a shipbuilding facility at calicut in south india for manufacturing vessels like tankers etc.

an indian team is currently in oman to sign an agreement for setting up a shipbuilding and repair facility in oman (the team is led by grse),oman and recently mozambique have expressed interest in acquiring indian naval technology.

other customers are srilanka,seychelles,maldives,mauritius,vietnam.

thoug indian shipbuilding and marine industries are not as w ell developed as that of south korea or japan,india has recently launched a maritime development programme worth 150000crore ruppes(approx 34.5 billion dollars) of which nearly 50000crore rupees is for setting up new shipyards and repair facilities (most probably with south korean and japanese help since india has a close association with them).

india would be gaining around 2.5 million square kilometres of sea terriotery thus expanding itis maritime boundary and eez upto oman,hence efforts are now being made to improve the coast guard,the coast guard fleet which currently consistes of 60 vessles of various sizes is to be expanded to 200 vessles by 2020.

currently 30 vessels(warships and other vessles) are under construction for the indian navy at the various shipyards and the govt of india has sanctioned the construction of 30 more.

indians have now started using modular technology in ship construction reducing the ship construction time to 3.5 to 4 years(this used to be 10-15 years in the 80's and 90's),for example india's latest frigate programme the p17a nilgiri class of stealth frigates(an enlarged and stealthier version of the russian p1135.6 krivack 3 class for which dcni is the design consultant and along with the russian naval design beureau) use 172 modules.

[Admin Edit: Please post the ACTUAL LINK where the INFORMATION IS and not the general URL of the site. Post the link where the visitor clicking on the links will FIND THE INFORMATION RIGHT THERE AND THEN and DOES NOT have to SEARCH FOR IT.]

the programme was for 3 delhi class vessles ,however a follow up programme was launched known as the p15a bangalore class which is an enlarged and stealthier version of the delhi class by the mdl,expected to be equipped with the brahmos and the indo-israeli super barak sams,the us had offered india the aegis weapon system though iam not sure wether indian navy in interested in it or not.

[zoolander]

india needs to retire some of their ships. They should either scrap them, keep them reserve, refit them or use them as patrol vessels. this is the problem with many second and third word countrys, they have too much junk in their navy. Many of india ships still use the styx anti ship missile.

[vedang]

any idea about d development of shivalik class of frigates,,,i thought they were 2 be finished in 2005....:confused:

[aaaditya]

well zoolander you need to update your info on the indian navy,indian navy's capital warships are equipped with the uran missiles which is currently the mainstay of the navy(these and the klubs will be replaced by brahmos missile when it gets ready),the kilo submarines of indian navy are equipped with the russian klub missiles.

the sea eagles of the indian navy are to be replaced by the brahmos and the klub.

indian navy is retiring its warships and that is the reason why there is this warship building programme,besides this they are also acquiring new warships from abroad,india is acquiring the gorshkov to replace ins vikrant(ex hermes aircraft carrier).

india has already acquired 3 project 1135.6 krivack3 class of stealth frigates from russia and has recently placed a 1.6billion dollar order with russia for 3 more stealth frigates with an option of 2 more equipped with the brahmos cruise missiles.

[hovercraft]

currently how many frigates/cruisers and submarines are functional in indian navy? and which are more modren?

[aaaditya]

well guys here is another example of a joint solution to vexed problem(i hope more countries join together to fight piracy).

Indonesian, Indian navies to hold joint patrol

BANDA ACEH, Aceh (Antara): Indonesian and Indian navies will hold their seventh joint patrol later this month to anticipate various threats in the waters bordering the countries, an Indonesian Navyofficer said Sunday.
"The one-week joint patrol will commence March 24 in the waters between Sabang Island and India's Nicobar Islands," Sabang Naval Base chief Col. Aswoto said.
"The routine operation will be commanded from Port Blair in the Andaman Islands."
Indonesia will send the KRI Sutan Taha corvette and a Nomad maritime patrol aircraft, said Aswoto. Meanwhile, Aswoto also said that the Navy was ready to protect Indonesia's outer islands off Aceh province, such as Rondo, Benggala and Rusa.

here check out this link:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detaillgen.asp?fileid=20060319192929

[tatra]

currently how many frigates/cruisers and submarines are functional in indian navy? and which are more modren?

Major surface combatants over 1000 tons full load
(excl. carriers and landing ships)

Modern, in service:
3 Delhi class destroyers (p15),
3 Talwar class frigates
3 Brahmaputra class frigates (p16A)

Adequate, in service
5 Rajput (Kashin II) class
3 Godavari class (P16)
4 Kora class corvettes (P25A)
4 Khukri class corvettes (P25)

Modern, building
3 Shivalik class (P17)

Modern, ordered
3 Talwar class
3 Bangalore class (P15A)
up to 6 corvettes/light frigates of russian design (P28)

[alexsa]

Major surface combatants over 1000 tons full load
(excl. carriers and landing ships)

Modern, in service:
3 Delhi class destroyers (p15),
3 Talwar class frigates
3 Brahmaputra class frigates (p16A)



Nobody could argue that the Indian Navy is not a potent force. The one thing I note with some of the locally produced vessel is the combination of Soviet (now Russian) and Western systems. This must be an intergration nightmare.

I wonder if they have problems incorporating them into a single intergrated combat system or if they are operated 'independently' within the ship?

Inforamtion sharing between assets is another issue which may (note I say may) cause problems given the varity of platforms but I don't know enought to be sure.

[aaaditya]

Nobody could argue that the Indian Navy is not a potent force. The one thing I note with some of the locally produced vessel is the combination of Soviet (now Russian) and Western systems. This must be an intergration nightmare.

I wonder if they have problems incorporating them into a single intergrated combat system or if they are operated 'independently' within the ship?

Inforamtion sharing between assets is another issue which may (note I say may) cause problems given the varity of platforms but I don't know enought to be sure.

the russians experienced integration problems while integrating the shtil air defence system on the talwar(project 1135.6 krivack) class frigate ,due to radio interference but this problem was solved and the indian navy acquire these frigates and placed an order for 3 more.

[alexsa]

the russians experienced integration problems while integrating the shtil air defence system on the talwar(project 1135.6 krivack) class frigate ,due to radio interference but this problem was solved and the indian navy acquire these frigates and placed an order for 3 more.

Thanks for that.

There are various levels of intergartion as far as I know. Are the systesm fused in a manner that information from one sensor can be directly fed to the combat system to provide a holistic picture. As an example of the problems I understand that Australia had quite a bit of fun trying to intergrate the MU90 ASW torpedoes into the SAAB combat system. I could be wrong on this, as rumour often replaces truth, but if that was hard then the connection between weapons systems used by India would provide similar challenges.

From my reading the ultimate end of the scale is what the USN/USAF are aiming to achieve with new platforms where all sensors on a platform and the information transmitted from other platforms are fused into a single picture. It would appear this would be a significant challenge where disperate systems are fitted such as those used by the IN.

[akj]

The eighth bilateral exercise of the generic series 'VARUNA' is scheduled off our west coast from 27 Mar to 07 Apr 06. Five Indian navy surface combatants, one submarine, and a number of different types of shore-based fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft will be participating in for this year's exercise, which is called "Varuna-2006". The participating Indian units will be under the tactical command of the FOCWF (Flag Officer Commanding Western Fleet), Rear Admiral Anup Singh. His counterpart from the French Navy, will be Rear Admiral Xavier Magne.

The Indian Navy will be fielding the aircraft carrier Viraat along with her air-group, the guided-missile destroyer Mumbai, the guided-missile frigates Gomati and Betwa, the fleet-replenishment tanker Aditya, and, the submarine Shankul. The Indian Air Force will also participate in 'Varuna-2006' and will field Jaguar And Canberra aircraft. The French task force comprises their nuclear-propelled aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle (with her own air group), the guided-missile destroyers Cassard and Montcalm, the fleet-replenishment tanker Somme, the nuclear-powered submarine (SSN) Saphir, and, French 'Atlantique-II' Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPAs) that will operate ex-Goa. In conformance with modern practice, the French task force has one Royal Navy frigate, HMS Lancaster, embedded within it.

One of the major thrust-areas would be 'DACT' (Dissimilar Air Combat) between the Indian Navy's Sea Harrier aircraft ex-Viraat, and, the Rafale and Super Etendards of the Charles de Gaulle. Other aspects that would be exercised by the two navies include fleet air-defence, intermediate and advanced ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare), MIO (Maritime Interdiction Operations), VBSS (Visit, Board, Search & Seizure) procedures and tactical manoeuvres.

Some of the 'firsts' of this exercise include the co-ordinated operation of the Indian and French aircraft carriers (Viraat and Charles de Gaulle), firing on aerial targets, cross-deck operations by the Indian Navy's Sea Harrier aircraft from the deck of the Charles de Gaulle, and, participation by the Indian Air Force.

A DVP (Distinguished Visitors' Programme) - which would also include a few representatives of the print and electronic media - has been scheduled on 02 Apr 06, off Goa.

The 'Varuna' series of joint exercises between the Indian and the French navies commenced in 2001 and has grown in scope and complexity over the years. These exercises have been hugely successful in facilitating mutual learning and interoperability between the two navies. These skills would stand both countries in good stead in several facets of naval activities, such as disaster-management. The last such exercise was held in November 2005 off Djibouti (in the Gulf Of Aden).

The exercise also incorporates harbour based professional, social and sports interaction between the two navies. The Indian Navy lays great stress on enhancing bilateral ties and improving mutual understanding and interoperability with navies of developed countries through professional and operational interaction. The exercise will, in addition, provide an opportunity to showcase Indian naval ship-building capability through the participation of indigenously-built front-line ships such as Mumbai, Gomati, Betwa and Aditya.

'Varuna-2006' is a significant indicator of the continuing and growing co-operation between India and France. SA/AK
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_005331.php

[akj]

The Navy is planning to phase out its Sea Harrier aircraft by the next six years by which time it expects MiG-29s and the Naval variant of Light Combat Aircraft to be operational, Flag-Officer-Commanding in Chief (East), Vice Admiral Sureesh Mehta, said today.

"We will have the MiG-29 and the LCAs. The naval version of the LCAs will be ready in the next five to six years. Till then, the Sea Harriers will continue," he told reporters after the launching of the 'INS Airavat,' a Landing Ship Tank Large (LST-L), at Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE).

Stating that the Navy has been allotted Rs 4,700 crore for fleet acquisition during the current year, he said of this, Rs 1,400 crore had been given to the Mazgaon Docks Ltd, Rs 550 crore to the GRSE and Rs 100 crore to the Goa Dockyard.

The Navy has placed orders with the GRSE for four Fast Attack Craft (FACs), four Corvettes and three LSTs, Mehta said, adding, "now they have their hands full for 10 years."

'Airavat,' having more than 90 per cent indigenous content, is the fifth ship of the LST(L) class being built by GRSE. The earlier ships of this class, 'INS Magar' and 'INS Gharial' were built at GRSE and delivered during 1987 and 1997 respectively.

Two other ships of this class 'INS Shardul' and 'INS Kesari' are in advanced staged of fitting out at GRSE.

Earlier, speaking at the launching of 'INS Airavat' he described the LST(L) project as a major landmark in the growth of the country's naval shipbuilding activities.

Pointing out that the 'Shardul' class landing ships would be commissioned this year, Mehta said these would enable the Navy to enhance capabilities especially in the island territories.

linkhttp://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=73&id=373150

[akj]

Thanks for that.

There are various levels of intergartion as far as I know. Are the systesm fused in a manner that information from one sensor can be directly fed to the combat system to provide a holistic picture. As an example of the problems I understand that Australia had quite a bit of fun trying to intergrate the MU90 ASW torpedoes into the SAAB combat system. I could be wrong on this, as rumour often replaces truth, but if that was hard then the connection between weapons systems used by India would provide similar challenges.

From my reading the ultimate end of the scale is what the USN/USAF are aiming to achieve with new platforms where all sensors on a platform and the information transmitted from other platforms are fused into a single picture. It would appear this would be a significant challenge where disperate systems are fitted such as those used by the IN.

As far as i know, Indoa is not new to intgration of platforms from different parties. India has always followeed the approach of fitting western systems on Russian platforms to increase their effectiveness. Cases to note include Su 30MKI, most ships, Mirage 2000 (can launch R77), Phalcon AWACS on IL 76 etc

[aaaditya]

well it is realy sad that the harrier has to go,and that too in just another 6 years,it is the end of a truly magnificient aircraft.

by the way do you guys know that the harrier was recently upgraded with israeli radar and the ability to fire both the derby and python5 missiles(both missiles have been acquired by the navy).

well guys here is an article containing some info on the ins airavat:

Airavat had more than 90 per cent indigenisation. The 124.8 metre long ship can carry 12 main battle tanks, 10 army vehicles and 500 troops for amphibious operations. Over the past two months, GRSE had already delivered two fast attack crafts and two more would be delivered shortly. Ganeshan added that GRSE had orders for four anti-submarine corvettes.


here check out the link:

http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage.php?storyflag=y&leftnm=lmnu1&leftindx=1&lselect=1&chklogin=N&autono=220136

here is another more detailed article regarding the ins airavat.

http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=32251

it has a displacement of 5600 tons,can carry 12 main battle tanks,10 heavy army trucks and 500 troops,has an endurance of 45 days.

it is capable of defending itself and its armament includes the wm-18 rocket launchers,crn-91 naval guns(does anyone have more info on these guns,like their caliber,range,firing rate,number of shells carried and the manufacturer,indian navy generally uses russian guns and the italian oto-melara guns and i have never heard of this type of naval gun.),surface to air missiles and chaff launchers,it also has staging facilities for the mk42c or the indigenously developed alh dhruv.

it is 124.8 metres long and 17.5 metres wide and is capable of speeds of upto 15.8 kts(29.23 kms/hr).

also for more information on this class you can check out bharat-rakshak.com . under the navy section.

[aaaditya]

hey guys indian navy has today launched ins kolkata the first of the p15a class of stealth missile destroyers,these are the follow up on the p15 delhi class of which indian navy has inducted 3 vessels(ins delhi,ins mysore and ins mumbai),these new warships are arguably the most powerful and advanced warships ever developed by india and as of now definitely the most advanced warship project in the south asia region.3 vessels of this class are to be built.

here is the article:


WARSHIPIndigenous warship INS Kolkata launchedMUMBAI, MAR 30 (PTI)
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]Aimed at adding a new dimension to the country's naval warfare, India today launched an indigenous warship with enhanced stealth features and land-attack capabilities.
Named INS Kolkata, the ship belongs to the destroyer class and is the first of three ships currently under construction at the Mazagon Dock here.
The warship, under the Project 15 Alpha, is scheduled to join the Navy in 2010.
"Project 15 A, although conceived as a follow-on of the earlier Delhi class, will have major advances in its weapons and sensors ad will be technologically far more superior," Mazagon Dock CMD Rear Admiral SKK Krishnan said.
Project 15-A ships are follow-on ships of the successful Project 15 destroyers including INS Delhi, INS Mysore and INS Mumbai, which forms the frontline combatants of the Indian Navy. Approved by the Union Government in May 2000, construction of the ship was started in March 2003, he said. "Jointly with the Director General of Naval Design, we have made many changes in the design of the ship. Most importantly we are building this series in a fixed price contract," Krishnan said. Propelled by four gas turbines, INS Kolkata is designed to achieve speed in excess of 30 knots/ph and to help coordinate a task force in exerting sea-control in a multi-threat environment.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=73

[aprasadi]

One of my friends have in navy has send me pics of french aircraft carrier which had recently come to india for naval excercise. I wish India too had 2/3 of these mighty machines.