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Snauman
December 16th, 2004, 07:20 AM
:arrow: AIR MARSHAL (RETD) AYAZ AHMED KHAN
:eek Since fifteen years India has been engaged in a massive effort to sabotage the sale of F-16 fighters to Pakistan. Mr Pressler, an Indian lobbyist in the US Congress steered The Pressler Amendment came into effect in October 1989, and the US imposed a ban on the sale of F-16 fighters to Pakistan. By then Pakistan had paid US$ 658 towards the purchase of 110 F-16s.

The US Department of Defence had clarified that with the paid amount Pakistan could buy 28 F-16 fighters, subject to the lifting of US sanctions imposed by the Pressler Amendment. It is astonishing and disappointing that while US sanctions have been lifted, Pakistan has been given the major Non-Nato Ally status; yet there is no sign of supply of F-16 fighters to Pakistan.


One of the major reasons has been the subvertive role of the Indian embassy in Washington DC, whose hired lobbyists have successfully sabotaged Pakistani efforts to buy F-16 fighters from the US. That India has full time lobbyists, and has US Congressmen to sabotage sale of US weapons to Pakistan, especially F-16 fighters, provides evidence of a deep-rooted conspiracy and hostility to make Pakistan militarily week.


During his meeting with US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on December 9, Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukerjee while describing Indo-US relations "enduring", and defence relationship 'strong', warned US against the sale of F-16 fighters, to Pakistan. He warned Washington of repercussions on the ongoing peace process. Same day Indian external Affairs Minister Natwar Singh warned in the Indian Parliament, that "the government of India will not hesitate, and will ensure that our defence preparedness is not compromised in any way". He refused to elaborate when asked by media men to clarify his threat. Same day Indian Foreign Secretary Navtej Sarna adding fuel to the fire said, "These arms sales would impact on the positive sentiment and goodwill for the United States in India."

Donald Rumsfeld the US Secretary of Defence who met the Indian leaders on December 10, skirted the issue of the proposed sale of US arms to Pakistan, and kept mum over the sale of F-16 fighters. While Rumsfeld may have taken due notice of the black mailing tactics of the Congress government, but thought it advisable not to retort.


That New Delhi is actively engaged in anti-PAF F-16 lobbying activities in Washington, fully surfaced in a front page report of "India Abroad" on November 19, 2004. Aziz Haniffa the editor reported from Washington DC that, "India dumps Akin Gump over sale of F-16s to Pakistan. The controversy over what senior Congressional sources have described as "the credible prospect" of the Bush Administration considering the sale of F-16 fighter aircraft to Pakistan continues to simmer with the Indian embassy not renewing the US$ 50000 a month contract of its lobbying firm Akin Gump over the F-16 issue.
The firm was accused as was the embassy of being apathetic to the prospect of the F-16 sale, and making no attempt to kill the move.

Congressional sources eight (Indian spies and lobbyists in the US
Congress) told India Abroad, "We still cannot get a straight answer from the Administration whether the F-16 sale is on or off. State Department officials and those at the Pentagon continue to be circumspect. Telling us, 'no decision has been made". The Indian embassy had been bombarded these past few weeks with letters and emails from the Indian-American community all saying that if the lobbying group cannot, then they would work aggressively to nip the F-16 sale in the bud.

Indian government should not waste money on ineffective American lobbying firms. The Indian-American community in the US has decided to take up the F-16 issue with the Bush Administration and with the US Congress. Pakistani American community in the US should take serious note of it, and do something to counter it. It is worrying that Indian lobbyists in the House i.e. US Congress and even in The White House have been subverting administration's plans to sell F-16s and other weapons to Pakistan. Indian embassy officials in Washington DC have acknowledged that former US ambassador to India Robert Blackwill's departure from the White House National Security Council as a Special Assistant to President Bush "was indeed a great loss for India".

India had counted on him "as one of those loyals who would have vehemently advised Bush against any such sale of sophisticated weapons, especially F-16s to Pakistan. This is contrary to diplomatic norms and etiquette.

The State Department and CIA should find out how New Delhi bribed him into such a role? US Representative Joseph Crowley N.Y. Democrat and the co-chairman of the Congressional Caucus on India and Indian Americans, wrote a letter to President Bush last month seeking, clarity regarding the sale of F-16s to Pakistan. Crowley mischievously wrote, "These military aircraft are not suitable for fighting the war against terrorism within Pakistan!" Despite the torrent of protests by Indian lobbyists, and hysteria in New Delhi to block and scuttle sale of F-16 fighters and other weapons to Pakistan, Congressman Joseph Crowley the top Indian lobbyist says that, "The Bush Administration may very well push for the sale of F-16s to Pakistan shortly.

The administration has not denied the potential for such a sale but kept repeating that "no decision has been made, even as it acknowledges that the issue is on the table".
Crowley added that, "In as much as the State Department had designated Pakistan a major Non-Nato Ally, it could easily blindside both India and Congress and announce that such a sale is in the works". Janes Defence Weekly in its last issue reports that," Pakistani officials are negotiating the sale of new F-16 fighters to the Pakistan Air Force.

This follows Bush administration's notification to the US Congress on November 15, 2004 to its plans to sell $1.2 billion worth of sophisticated weapons for the use of Pakistan Navy and Pakistan Army. Reportedly President Musharraf in his meeting with President Bush discussed the potential purchase of F-16s. Pakistan wants to by up to 25 F-16s, with the price tag of $25 million each. India has cautioned, warned and threatened the Bush administration not to sell F-16s or other weapons to Pakistan. And if America does not listen to India and sells F-16s to Pakistan, it better be ready to face Indian anger.

In his two-hour meeting in Paris President Musharraf discussed with President Jacques Chirac access to European free market and purchase of French aircraft, avionics, electronic warfare and collaboration in defence with France. Musharraf's successful visits to Washington and Paris are bound to bear fruit.


http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/dec-2004/16/columns4.php




Snauman
December 16th, 2004, 07:25 AM
Inshallah PAF will have new :) F-16's as well as latest French fighters ;) .

ajay_ijn
December 16th, 2004, 08:28 AM
And if America does not listen to India and sells F-16s to Pakistan, it better be ready to face Indian anger.

and the anger i suppose would be immediately signing the deal for 125 Fighter aircraft deal and make sure that the fighter is superior to any version of F-16 or buying the patriot.

Indian-American community in the US has decided to take up the F-16 issue with the Bush Administration and with the US Congress.
It is worrying that Indian lobbyists in the House i.e. US Congress and even in The White House have been subverting administration's plans to sell F-16s and other weapons to Pakistan

I am happy to know that Indian-US community is helping Indian Govt though living in abroad.

Crowley mischievously wrote, "These military aircraft are not suitable for fighting the war against terrorism within Pakistan!"
I think what he said is right.

mysterious
December 16th, 2004, 12:14 PM
[quote]Crowley mischievously wrote, "These military aircraft are not suitable for fighting the war against terrorism within Pakistan!" I think what he said is right.

Umm not really. If they weren't suitable, why would the US use them in its war on terror? Its active support of army operations in Waziristan by the airforce that is needed and aircrafts with better avionics (which includes better radars) are needed to counter the militants hiding over there in the difficult terrain. And, even if it is not entirely aimed at fighting terrorism, Indian defense establishment has already made it clear that F-16s are not a threat so it'll be better if all the rhetoric would just end cuz its all just useless bickering nothing else.

P.A.F
December 17th, 2004, 07:00 AM
doesn't matter what the media say. i assure you guys that those f-16's will come by next year. NO JOKE!!!!

mysterious
December 17th, 2004, 12:58 PM
Yup, my thoughts are with you on that one P.A.F. :smokingc:

P.A.F
December 23rd, 2004, 04:26 AM
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041222-113037-5489r.htm

[Mod edit: Red aRRow: Edited]

Jacob
December 23rd, 2004, 07:57 AM
[Mod edit:Red aRRow: Edited]

armage
December 23rd, 2004, 12:28 PM
I dont think it would really matter if PAF gets the F-16 the IAF already has AC that are better..... Su-30

XEROX
December 23rd, 2004, 01:31 PM
Well it looks like Belgium have acceded to Indian demands of no F-16s for Pakistan

P.A.F
December 23rd, 2004, 02:51 PM
well brand new f-16s are better then second hand ones. :D:

adsH
December 23rd, 2004, 02:56 PM
where has belgium decided not to sell there Excess F-16 to pakistan, Send-the link over here, need to read it. Pakistan can now directly access USAF excess F-16 inventory and USAF will soon be replacing a large part of its F-16 with newer more uptodate F-16E/F. So there would be plenty of F-16 in the Bone-Yards.

P.A.F
December 23rd, 2004, 03:04 PM
it's in my post above adsh.

P.A.F
December 23rd, 2004, 03:05 PM
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041222-113037-5489r.htm

adsH
December 23rd, 2004, 03:17 PM
i can't believe it they are getting so petty that would prevent PAF from getting two squadrons of Antiquated AC. they are again just makeing there own bed the lesser Conventional Capability of PAK just raises the Threat of Nuke use. they should of learnt that by know. plus i think the US never gave permission to sell those F-16 to pak and the belgium is trying ot strike a deal with one of the european country, and PAF would soon be getting newer F-16 from the US. i don't think this decision was solely based on India's pressure, the Belg's have resisted the germans before i doubt India would of intimidated them.

adsH
December 23rd, 2004, 08:03 PM
F-16s to be delivered soon: air chief


By our correspondent


HYDERABAD: Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat has said positive indications are coming from the US government in connection with the F-16 fighter planes and, God willing, the planes will be delivered soon.


He was talking to newsmen after the inauguration of a school in Rashidabad near here. Federal Minister Atta-ur-Rehman and Sindh Education Minister Hameeda Khohru accompanied the air chief marshal.


Asked will Pakistan get the F-16 planes, he smiled and replied it was a decision of President Bush and the US government and positive signals are coming. He said the Pakistan Air Force knows how to fight. He added the PAF is ready to shed every drop of its blood for the defence of Pakistan, adding nobody should have any doubts about it.Later, the air chief marshal inaugurated the under-construction work of the school building.
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/index.html

now he wouldn't come out publicly shouting out loud that F-16 are coming if there weren't any coming, would he?

adsH
December 23rd, 2004, 08:10 PM
Belgian Air Force sells 31 F-16s on parts market











Thursday, December 23, 2004 - The Belgian ministry of defence started the dismantlement of their 31 oldest F-16 Fighting Falcons. Since their retirement from service, these jets have been stored in Weelde, near Antwerp.


The aircraft wil be sold on the replacement parts market.

The oldest jets have been stored in Weelde for over ten years already. They will be transported to an armament depot in Rocourt, where they will be stripped down.

The first of three batchs of F-16s has been transported in November already, the remaining two batches will follow in January and Februar
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article1280.html


now we know who was lying, these F-16 have been scrapped the rest of the excess articles are going to be sold to a European country and these things don't happen over night, So the INdian claim of blocking Jack was loads of Crap.



heres an article from todays edition of the Dawn news paper

Government chides India for reportedly blocking F-16 deal with Belgium: ISLAMABAD, Dec 23: Government today criticized India's defence minister for claiming in a news report that Belgium had decided not to sell used F-16 fighter jets to Islamabad after a request from India. "I don't know how authentic these claims are but India should stop opposing to our legitimate defence needs," Foreign Office spokesman Masood Khan told reporters in Islamabad. Â*Â* (DPA) (Posted @ 15:45 PST)
http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/23/welcome.htm

santpaul
December 23rd, 2004, 11:25 PM
where has belgium decided not to sell there Excess F-16 to pakistan, Send-the link over here, need to read it. Pakistan can now directly access USAF excess F-16 inventory and USAF will soon be replacing a large part of its F-16 with newer more uptodate F-16E/F. So there would be plenty of F-16 in the Bone-Yards.

I don't think U.S. will share that kind of Tech with pakistan because pakistan surely will give it to China and U.S. at any cost will not let that happen

mod edit: gf: layout fix

Please remeber to enable BBCode if you are going to use quotes etc...

adsH
December 24th, 2004, 07:54 AM
where has belgium decided not to sell there Excess F-16 to pakistan, Send-the link over here, need to read it. Pakistan can now directly access USAF excess F-16 inventory and USAF will soon be replacing a large part of its F-16 with newer more uptodate F-16E/F. So there would be plenty of F-16 in the Bone-Yards.

I don't think U.S. will share that kind of Tech with pakistan because pakistan surely will give it to China and U.S. at any cost will not let that happen

mod edit: gf: layout fix

Please remeber to enable BBCode if you are going to use quotes etc...



i was referring to the used F-16, which are going to be retired from service they are not F-16E/F they're older versions.

P.A.F
December 24th, 2004, 08:57 AM
http://www.paknews.com/top.php?id=1&date1=2004-12-24

India's Noise Over Slim Arms Purchases Meaningless: FO
Updated on 2004-12-24 08:18:44



ISLAMABAD, Pakistan : Dec 24 (SADA) - Expressing concern over the large scale defense purchases by India, Pakistan on Thursday said the rival country should stop rhetoric over the slim arms acquisition by it.

"India should desist from opposing the just defense needs of Pakistan, the foreign office spokesman Masood Ahmad Khan said. Dismissing the statement by the Indian defense minister, the spokesman said it was strange that India was purchasing modern atomic equipments from different countries including Britain, France, Russia and America and on the other hand was trying to stop the acquisition of some essential equipments by Pakistan.

"Due to the huge stocks of weapons kept by India and the continuous arms sale has disrupted the traditional balance in the region," Khan said and added it was necessary to rectify the balance. The spokesman said Pakistan wanted peace and stability and not tension in the region.

"It is wise of India to consider the defense needs of Pakistan and relinquish its opposition."

He expressed wonder why India was making huge arms purchases when it was trying to stabilize relations with India and concerned over the slim purchases by Pakistan. Masood asked India to play its role in stopping the arms race and ensure strategic balance in the region.

The End.

mysterious
December 25th, 2004, 12:49 AM
Pakistani group counters Indian-initiated move on F-16s

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: A newly-formed Pakistani lobbying group has tried to counter moves initiated by the Indian-American community to block the possible sale of F-16s to Pakistan.

A letter sent by Faiz Rehman, executive director of the Pakistani American Liaison Centre, to members of the India Caucus in US Congress argues that it is a mistake to link Pakistan with the independent relationship between India and the United States. India, he writes, enjoys a huge advantage over Pakistan in conventional weapons. Its military is armed to the teeth with weapons supplied by its Cold War era friend, the former Soviet Union. India to date continues to spend a significant portion of its national budget on buying conventional weapons from Russia and other places in the world to increase its already clear edge over Pakistan, it adds.

According to the letter, even if reports that Pakistan is going to get the aircraft it seeks are correct, this will in no way affect the existing imbalance in conventional arms between the two countries. It argues that it is not right for a lobbying group to attack US ties with a third country, in this case, Pakistan, nor should it try to undermine the actions of Congress or condemn the policies of the President of the United States, especially when those policies enjoy congressional support. It calls the Indian effort “inherently anti-Pakistan” and in stark contrast to the Intelligence Reform and Prevention of Terrorism Act of 2004 which was overwhelmingly passed by Congress and signed by the President. It reminds the US lawmakers that the Act has recommended to the Bush administration to ensure long-term engagement with Pakistan and continue to provide it with military and economic assistance.

The letter underscores Pakistan’s importance to Washington, the vital role it is playing and the huge sacrifices made its people and soldiers have made in the war on terror. “The smear campaign against Pakistan and its citizens initiated by the India Caucus co-chair is extremely unfair and negative, to say the least. It does not deserve support from members of Congress,” the letter stresses.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_25-12-2004_pg7_31

Now we're finally making some efforts to counter the Indian lobby in this case. :smokingc:

srirangan
December 25th, 2004, 01:32 AM
It'll end up being who will buy up more Congressmen. Bush wants to sell, no doubt about that. But let's see if India can buy enough senators and congressmen to counter this. Maybe the big Jewish businesses might help. /kiddin (The Watcher freemasonry jew conspiracy alert :P)

mysterious
January 7th, 2005, 09:00 PM
Pakistan’s urge for F-16s not worrying, says Indian air chief

* Tyagi says India has its own strategy

NEW DELHI: India’s new air chief said on Friday that there was no need to worry about Pakistan’s effort to purchase F-16 fighter aircraft, adding, “We have our own plans”.

“It is a constant process, we buy something and they buy something and also the numbers (of aircraft) to be purchased (by Pakistan) are still not formally decided,” Air Chief Marshal SP Tyagi told reporters.

He however said that he was not suggesting that New Delhi should ignore Islamabad’s decision but added that New Delhi had its own plans. Pakistan had first discussed the purchase of high-tech planes, especially F-16s, with the US and then approached other countries following Washington’s reluctance.

India had prevailed over Belgium not to sell 30 second-hand nuclear-capable F-16s to Pakistan.

Though the Indian government has officially contended that acquisition of F-16s by Pakistan could affect the balance of air power between the two countries, Tyagi said he did not apprehend any such “imbalance”.

Tyagi said India was negotiating with Russia to acquire fifth generation fighter aircraft. These had already been inducted into the air forces of the US, China and Russia.

He also pointed out that India had received six of the 10 Mirage-2000 fighters from France while four would be delivered later. “Talks are also on for acquiring 126 Mirage-2000-5s,”Tyagi said.

The Indian air chief said he was happy that the MiG-21 aircraft accident rate had decreased considerably. Only two crashes were recorded last year compared to 12 in 1999.

He ruled out grounding the MiG-21s, saying there was a process to phase out fighter planes and that would be followed.

Tyagi also ruled out closing the Car Nicobar airbase which was completely damaged by the tsunami on December 26 as repairs to the runway had been carried out and the base had become operational. Online

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_8-1-2005_pg7_6

I guess now the Indian Government should pay some heed to what the Air Chief is saying and cut the hue n cry over Pakistan's attempts for F-16 acquisition.