Three Strikes - you're out!

[WebMaster]

In order to control flamming and useless ass rubbing between Indians and Pakistanis someone out there suggested that we enforce the rules using "three strikes, you're out" formula.

First offense > warning
second offense > temp ban
third offense > Perm ban

That rule won't just apply to flammers or those who say something in order to create a fight in threads but those who violate other defence talk rules and regulations and we have to give them warnings multiple times...etc!!!

Poll is up vote and tell us what you think?

[Pathfinder-X]

I strongly support this idea. All the flamming lately is making people think DT is just another scaled down version of PakDefence when we try to establish ourselves as a global site. Friendly discussions are always encourage here and flamming must be kept to minimum to ensure the quality of the site.

[XEROX]

and what about people posting article without commentating on them :cry

[WebMaster]

That rule won't just apply to flammers or those who say something in order to create a fight in threads but those who violate other defence talk rules and regulations and we have to give them warnings multiple times...etc!!!

[gf0012-aust]

It needs to be considered, some of the posters are just winding each other up and then using it as a basis to look innocent.

It's getting to a point where we are micro managing schoolyard behviour rather than being able to provide meaningful input at a tech or informational level.

[srirangan]

Who decides what's a flame or not? I've seen a nujmber of mod's here throwing flame baits against my country and several other. Let's be honest, 4 out of 5 mods here are Pakistani and as long as they set the example, this forum will always remain an anti-Indian forum, instead of becoming what it can.

[adsH]

anything spoken against you is Anti indian grow up people don't think alike!! so live with it Big baby DT is probably the least of all Anti_Any nation on the web.

Admin: and that kind of rhetoric does not help either. there are ways to get your point across without resorting to such tone! The last part of your response could be challenged somewhat - although it's a lot better than PakDef by a long shot ;)

[WebMaster]

this forum will always remain an anti-Indian forum, instead of becoming what it can.


Thats a very unfair and totally misinformed/misleading statement. You should take it back.

DT isn't anti anycountry let alone anti-indian. We do not have such agenda's where we prop up anti-nation sentiments. I don't know why you think like that but I have a news for you: You are wrong! If we had such agenda's indian's wouldn't be registering here let alone post on the forums. Go on many many forums on the net, see if anyone on those forums gives you as much respect and "freedom of speech" than DT. You will get very harsh treatment. Same goes for many Indian only forums - you can't post anything criticising india, forget the anti-nation stuff, criticism isn't allowed either!

People have made like 30,000+ posts and I can say I have read over 90% of them, same goes for Gary and other moderators. I not going to let some arrogant person attack DT team members just because we allow criticism of indian policies as much as we allow indian's to criticise policies of other nations. You cannot have it one way my friend, criticism is two way street. For example, where we allowed RAW thread to go on, on same token we allowed ISI thread to go on. Which one has more volumn and substance, you go read them and decide your self.

Instead of whinning and crying over "mods being unfair to you...." realize the reality and confront it. Reply back to the criticism that you avoid answering and replying to. Be bold and think positive. You want us to allow you to post all types of anti pakistani BS you can find and not allow anything that comes close to criticism of India or its policies. It won't work that way and I will make sure it doesn't.

DT's stand is that everyone is FREE to post anything they like as long as its in accordance with DefenceTalk.com Forum Rules. You can read the rules as they are written in simple english.

Lets move forward, think positive and get over our negative thinking that is keeping us from over coming our arrogance, hatred and unwillingingness to come at par with reality or even some harsh facts, tough criticism!

Who voted NO? :?:

[virtual]

I think all those who think that this forum is unfair should go and spend a few days at someother well known Pakistani and Indian forums and see how the people from other country are treated there. Even mods will abuse you and clearly tell you to run away.
If you dont trust me then try it yourself and then comeback and comment about this forum. :mad

[gf0012-aust]

Who voted NO? :?:

Not me, I'm a firm believer in the power of the meglomaniac! ;)

[srirangan]

>> I think all those who think that this forum is unfair should go and
>> spend a few days at someother well known Pakistani and Indian
>> forums and see how the people from other country are treated there.

Trust me, I've been on tonnes of forums, moderated quite a few and even administered a couple. If you are trying to teach me how the game works, then you're wasting your time.

Web,

While I indeed don't doubt the intentions and purpose of this website, those views I just posted are not mine alone but they are shared by quite a few posters here. They might not wish to disclose their names, nor will I breach the trust and post any names here, but the fact remains they do share the same views.

You may not want it, but DT atm does resemble a Pakistani ant-Indian propaganda website.

And I've made it amply clear in the past, its not me scared of facing up to criticism. The general impression of this website is that of being anti-Indian. Sure some posters would have their own views, but the fact that some moderators even share the bias is what's disheartening.

This is the bare truth, if we all face up to it DT's image will improve ten folds. DT has great potential. Here's a list to things I'ld propose for DT to enhance its appeal. I'm in this website business for 6 years now, take these tips for what they're worth.

-> let their be moderators of multiple nationalities, currenlty gf is the only non-Pakistani mod. rest all are Pakistani's

-> let their be unbiased news editing, currently we just have selective news publishing, please don't deny this as it is a fact

-> and let the laws of moderating the forums be set and made public, and pressure must be on the new mods to implement them without bias

Trust me when I'm making this post, I'm not being me, but I've put myself in your shoes and am thinking as if I was the owner of DT. DT has great potential, I'll be sad to see it gone wasted, you've definitely put a lot of effort into this site. Now let's not let this fail.

[srirangan]

PS: I haven't voted as yet, but if the moderating panel is reformed so that multiple nationalities get represented, then I'll be the first to vote "yes" here.

[mysterious]

GOD! What do those 'other' posters have to hide that they cant come out of their shells and complain and have to put up an advocate (you) for themselves to talk out aloud here? Gimme a break. Apart from normal and rational criticising, I dont see any anti-Indian image or perception going around. Although, I can see that this forum has allowed good degree of criticism for ALL parties and somehow Indians are feeling an excessive brunt (probably because other forums dont allow good criticism) of that criticism (what can we do? if you're doing things worth criticising, they will come under scrutiny at DT) and portraying themselves as such innocent people. Please, 'useless' mud-slugging at DT Admin and Mod wont get anyone anywhere over here. This is no sissy discussion forum for kids to blab around all they want and insult anyone they want to. There's so much anti-Pakistan stuff that goes on here, but I dont see any Pakistani complaining (I'm guessing they're all much more open minded than our Indian friends?) or for that matter any other nationality. So much anti-US policy articles posted and even some abusive stuff (which gets locked down due to DT rule of 'respect') but our American friends dont whine about the Admin every now and then; they debate with facts and good intent of a great discussion and life goes on. So give it a break fellaz! I say, "Three Strikes - you're Out!" rules!! :smokingc:

[suleman]

SRI just opening a thread against RAW does not mean that whole forum is biased. If you cant discuss things in a discussion forum then its not the fault of mods. Can you provide some proof which highlights the biased decisions of mods?
Nationality of mods should not be a problem for you its the work they are doing here. When ever any action is taken all mods provide the reason or refer to the forum rules.If you think that a mod is not doing justice and targetting you then you can always report it to webs and he always provide justification or clarify things.
Another thing is that let the members speak who share your opinion you dont need to lead such teams.We are welcome for feedback and anyone can do it directly instead of reporting you and you tell us.

[WebMaster]

Sri,

DT had multiple nationality mods. DT had an Indian mod as well but these days Mukesh is busy with his work thus cannot donate some time for us. As soon as he is able to, we will reappoint him. I have asked couple of other indians on this forum to mod for us but did not get positive reply back.

You may not want it, but DT atm does resemble a Pakistani ant-Indian propaganda website.

Thats what you think and want others to think thats the only way you will get support to post the agenda you want to rather than face up to the responsibility of mutual respect and understanding. DT is an international website, respecting everyone and expecting some form of respect back(to admins/mods). Where there is thread criticising india, there is one criticising pakistan. Now, how heavy are those threads the readers decide that and what type of material is posted decides that.

The rules of DT apply to my self and down to the latest member that just registered.

Instead of passing accusations against mods, I want you to tell us how is DT biased anti indian? Anything you don't agree with is biased and anti-indian? For example, the RAW thread. Instead of replying to the study and report on RAW you directly went ahead and attacked ISI then you expect better treatement from Pakistanis - when you are totally ignoring the RAW issue and its activities and attacking ISI? Not ONE INDIA made a comment in that thread regarding the actual topic which was posted. Now that tells us something. All our indian friends were doing is trying to bring in ISI and turn RAW thread into bashing pakistan/ISI thing - while totally ignoring the indian RAW issue/study. Isn't that why someone opened an ISI thread... it was locked and we reopened it so you can continue to bash ISI since you were too POed over the RAW thread which you totally avoided and ignored since you disagreed with the study conducted. BTW, DT didn't have anything to do with the study so don't blame us for that... ;)

I can go on and give you more examples from 30,000 posts but what good will it do? You will still accuse us of being anti-indian unless we put up an indian flag and ban all pakistanis and turn this into regular indian forum where bashing pakistan is a hobby and disrespecting pakistani is loved. I don't think, Indians will be satisfied even then.

We are trying to get some more mods on board that can see both sides of the argument and have some type of common sense to lead in different forums/situations.

[SABRE]

Although I voted "NO" but considering the India-Pak scenerio on this forum I say go 4 it webs

[SABRE]

I dont think mod team should be based on multi national system. It should be based on members who r willing to lead the forum possitively. Who have will to moderate & have some knowledge in the sections where they ve been assigned to. Nationality should be least regarded.

[redsoulja]

Sri,
All our indian friends were doing is trying to bring in ISI and turn RAW thread into bashing pakistan/ISI thing - while totally ignoring the indian RAW issue/study. Isn't that why someone opened an ISI thread...


webs actually im not indian, i have to keep erpeatng it, i just opened the ISI thread because i found it whikle i was researching RAW's terrorist activities. I did not intend to bash the ISI

I don't think, Indians will be satisfied even then.

Now saying that all indians wll not be satisfactory,is making an assumption ,
i dont think sri represents all indians, do you think he does??
he does not represent all indians,

and just becuase no indians posted anything doesn't mean they are all Indian nationalist fantics or like sri and they ignored the topics, thats another assumption, if u want you can close the ISI thread , i regret creating it.

[srirangan]

Web,
I'ld appreciate it if you believe me when I say I'm not basing my opinions based on any particular thread, or any particular user. I'm making my views felt after some 1.5K posts and three months of non-stop participation on these boards.

suleman
I think that answer's your comment sir.

Myst,
You are entitled an opinion, but I don't regard it as much. You are kiddish and possibly too high on testosterone (atleast act that way on he www, don't know how you are IRL) and very biased. I think the boards, and more importantly you yourself wuld be better served if you take time out to read and understand, than just start off ranting your countries propaganda at each and every oppurtunity.

-------------------------

Web,

I haven't seen this "mukesh" guy post around, so obviously I wasn't aware of his presence, or lack of it. But if you want I can quote numerous occasions where your moderators have flamed or flame baited India, USA and/or Israel. Yes they are entitled a personal opinion, for that they can make a personal account and post from there; but to flame while being a moderator leaves a very bad impression on the user, and this impression directly reflects on this website.

Never have I asked you to remove all the Pak posters as your comment claimed. Please do not assume. I'll be the first person to voice out the right for each and every person to have an opinion.

And also the news reporting appears selective, I hope you understand the term "selective" and the sense that I've posted it in.

----------------

SABRE,

I agree with you in sentiment. Nationality should never be considered . But all of a sudden a bias comes in when dealing with thorny issues as is done here, and no human can not want to defend his/her country. Hence atleast while geopolitics is being discussed, let their be a vast array of multiple nationalities to neutral out each other.

[mysterious]

LOL, I am biased? Thats probably the biggest one I've heard in a while. Quoting your own self Sri, 'you are entitled to an opinion'. Enjoy! :smokingc:

[srirangan]

Web, is there any ignore button where I can skip the posts of certain users?

[gf0012-aust]

I think it best that you two just ignore each other, this is turning into a tit for tat response.

No more biting at each others responses.

[WebMaster]

Sri, I don't know where you going with this but it needs to stop. DT isn't anti indian and we need to stop acting like it is. We have international defence related agenda and thats it.

Anyway, I think we have enough votes to go ahead with this rule.

Here are some tips to avoid coming under fire:

First offense, you will get some type of warning.

second offense, you will be banned for 8 days (maybe longer for some situations).

third offense, you are banned permanently.

-When you don't like something, send one of the moderators or my self a PM and explain what it is that you don't like about particular reply/topic. So it can be corrected.

-Avoid useless bickering and ass rubbing that can lead to further problems. (see an example above between Mysterious and Srirangan).

-Be serious and to the point. Reply to the topic being discussed.

-Make sure you know what is anti-country. Anti-country is not something you disagree with but something you believe is a lie and you reply to such topics in good manner with proper facts and sources to back your self.

-This is a forum/discussion board. People will post stuff that you don't like or disagree with. That doesn't mean you accuse the mods of being unfair. Learn to handle different opinion and viewpoints.

-keep it fair and clean with MUTUAL respect in mind. Meaning, if you don't respect the other person, 100% chances are you are not going to get any respect in return.

Last but not least, read the rules:

http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

If mod team or someone else wants to add to this list, you are welcomed to do so.

Enjoy!

[SABRE]

SABRE,
I agree with you in sentiment. Nationality should never be considered . But all of a sudden a bias comes in when dealing with thorny issues as is done here, and no human can not want to defend his/her country. Hence atleast while geopolitics is being discussed, let their be a vast array of multiple nationalities to neutral out each other.

glad u agree with me sri.
But the idea u r giving will only bring mods against mods. A Pakistan mod will end up supporting Pakistani members & Indian Mods wil end up supporting Indian Members & the only one neutral will be GF.
It is better to leave nationality out of the administration. All those who can & desrve to be mods should be considered. Let nationality be a random in selection which depends on ability.

---------------------------------

Webs;
I like the idea but lets remove permanent ban. Replace it with short term ban & long term ban. Short term=8day, Long term=30 to 31 days.
Only those should be banned permanently who delibritly break the laws & rules of the forum.

[srirangan]

glad u agree with me sri.
But the idea u r giving will only bring mods against mods. A Pakistan mod will end up supporting Pakistani members & Indian Mods wil end up supporting Indian Members & the only one neutral will be GF.

Good point, but let me explain in detail what I propose and the ambiguities will be cleared. Let's say we have mods from 5 different countries A, B, C, D and E. And we have posters from country A and country B flaming.

In such a case the mod's who belong to countries A and B, might have a bias towards one party in the ongoing flame fest, so these mods sit out and the mods from the other nationalities handle the issue. A similar arrangment is done is test match cricket, wherein the umpires belong to neutral countries .. lol

[SABRE]

I think webs u ought to convert ur policy of "NO PAKISTAN v/s INDIA" or "INDIA v/s PAKISTAN" into one of Forum's rules.
This is no Indo Pak play ground, let it be an internation, professional website & forum. Lets not make mess of it.

Sri I tell u, u wont find any other neutral website such as this. U ll either find pro-Indian site or pro-Pakistani site. U should be glad tht even Pakistani mods follow the rule & curb any topic that can triger a mass conflict on this website.

If u find some one talkin against India, I believe it is ur right to either protest or counter him, similarly every Pakistani holds the same right.

Lets all be grown ups n put this enimosity behind us. Discuss topics as they come. Why bring in out side discussions. This is going to be hard as one thing leads to another but we have 2 do it. One another topic comes up lets open another thread. Why make mess of it. If we r talkin abt RAW u should also talk abt RAW, y bring in ISI. If u wana counter the topic with ISI open up another thread for it. While mods make sure that no mass conflict accours

Even better wouldbe that no Pakistan or Indian Mod should be allowed to moderate the India, Pakistan threads. They must be treated as members. Only Nuetral mods such as gf should be allowed to moderate India/Pakistan threads. This way u ll get neutrality.

[srirangan]

Even better wouldbe that no Pakistan or Indian Mod should be allowed to moderate the India, Pakistan threads. They must be treated as members. Only Nuetral mods such as gf should be allowed to moderate India/Pakistan threads. This way u ll get neutrality.

Exactly my point!

[SABRE]

Well than webs, the above point is some thing a Pakistan & an Indian both agree upon. What u say ?

[mysterious]

I didnt say I agree!! If you want Mods from all nationalities, why leave out Pakistanis and Indians? Just because they're a little emotional doesn't mean you are allowed to discriminate against 'em. :smokingc: And please, dont give me crap that Pakistani moderators on this forum are biased cuz I certainly haven't seen anything of the sort. If you have, please point it out instead of making irrelevant rants over here. :P

[suleman]

Webs clarified everything now there should be no doubt in anyone's mind.As far as moderating team is concerned leave it for the webs and mod team and concentrate on other issues in the forum.

It is freedom of speech that you are consistantly speaking against mods and blameing them and we all are listening with patience but there is limit for everything. If you have some problem with a mod then provide evidence and show where he violated the rules of this forum otherwise STOP all this :cry .
Its not an easy thing to tolerate a thing against your country and things get worse when this thing is propaganda but mods face this everyday and even 4 pakistani mods daily moderate anti pakistan thread(both normal and propaganda) but they acept it with open heart and it certainly requires a big heart.A normal member can speak and even fight but mods cant and they have to allow a healthy enviroment for discussion. Why dont anyone see mods of DEFENCE TALK from this angle? No but glass is half emty rather then half full.

Where did any mod pressed any party discussing India & Pakistan issues violating the rules of this forum? Now next time anyone speak against mods then provide evidence to back their point.

[SABRE]

I didnt say I agree!! If you want Mods from all nationalities, why leave out Pakistanis and Indians? Just because they're a little emotional doesn't mean you are allowed to discriminate against 'em. :smokingc: And please, dont give me crap that Pakistani moderators on this forum are biased cuz I certainly haven't seen anything of the sort. If you have, please point it out instead of making irrelevant rants over here. :P

I was takin abt me n sri. PAkistani = Me, Indian = Sri.
No one is decremenating against them. All I wrote was tht if they get emotional than they should be treated as just members on that thread, other wise thay may take side n miss use their power.

But Sri, Myst is also right. I havent seen any mod being biest. They try to be as neutral as possible.

Why dnt we let the forum run as it is..

[mysterious]

Thats what I was pointing out pal. I haven't seen any of the Mods being caught up in emotion ever and haven't seen any biased reaction from any of 'em. So I dont thing we need any wierd changes. :smokingc:

[WebMaster]

Suleman, thats my take also. I did not see any proof/evidence from the accusers that some of us were bias. One thread appears which someone didn't like or agree with and all of the sudden politicised the whole issue.

We will run this site according rules that we have in place and if you have problem following those rules that is not administrations fault. There are plenty of pro-nation and anti-nation websites out there that will allow you to vent your hate and anger against certain countries. You are most welcomed to go up there and carry out the propaganda war and use these forums for civilized, mature defence related discussions.

None of the crying and bitching will be tolerated anymore. If there is thread/post that you don't like or agree with - confront it with whatever resources you have proving it wrong not accuse this forum's moderators of being biased because some member posted a thread. We don't tell people what to post, as long as its within DT rules, its good to go wheather you like it or not. If you want to criticise something do it on principle basis with facts and proper sources to back your self up not accusations and allegations which mean nothing and does not support your side of the argument if your reply has nothing but allegations and accusations.

I guess, all it takes is some courage, tolerance and understanding of all of the issues and sentiments involved in order to confront something you disagree with. And those who are playing the "victim/bias" card certainly lack such courage, tolerance and understanding to confront opposing opinions (this issue has come up few times before - where opinion of posters were blamed on mod team!!!).

End of the story, thanks for your ideas - they will be considered.

Enjoy!