"What was he thinking?"

[SABRE]

It was back at base amidst the celebrations that they discovered that Sikand was missing. Initially it was thought that Sikand must have been lost in air combat. In fact unknown to the Indian Pilots, Sikand had lost contact with the formation as well as his bearings. Most aircraft at that time did not have radars, or GPS systems or navigational aids. All the pilots had to use their maps and the aircraft compass to do their navigation back to base using visible landmarks.

Sikand’s Gnat was low on fuel, and over unfamiliar territory, and after some flying Sikand found an airfield and in a foolish decision decided to land there. Sikand was under the impression that this was an abandoned airfield in Indian territory. But he should have known better that there were not many such airfields. Ultimately after he landed to his rude shock found out that the airfield was the Pakistani airfield of Pasrur. But before he could recover from the shock, he was taken POW and the aircraft was captured.

After the aircraft was captured, it was flown to Peshawar by Flt. Lt. Saad Hatmi of the PAF, who had previous experience on Gnats during a stint in U.K. The aircraft was flight tested thoroughly by the PAF. The Pakistanis claim that Sikand surrendered and landed at Pasrur after being intercepted by a Starfighter flown by Flt. Lt. Hakimullah. India had always maintained that Sikand landed the Gnat at Pasrur by mistake thinking it was Pathankot, but not much has come to light in this regard after that. While it is true that Hakimullah was in the same area as the Gnat was, it is conjecture to say that Hakimullah forced Sikand to land at Pasrur. Sikand later went on to become a Air Marshal in the Indian Air Force even earning a AVSM. Today Gnat IE 1083 is on display at the PAF Museum at Karachi.

[P.A.F]

it just shows what technologhy can do. :D:

[SABRE]

it just shows what technologhy can do. :D:.

Thats what the point is. hahaha :D: And hack they even made this guy air chief marshall

[P.A.F]

:D: lol :D:

[umair]

To all fellow Pakistanis(speciffically kids)"Don't dwell so much on our past glories, think about the future now"
Thanks

[P.A.F]

we like doing both.

[SABRE]

we like doing both.

HeeeeHaaaa !!!! :D: Hoooo :D: M not making fun of any one but P.A.F hahah LoLz.. When I think of what might have been your actual emotion when you answered umair I realy cant stop laughing. Even if ur emotion was different from what I m thinking, what I imagen still makes me laugh.

Anyways one must learn from past to do something in future umair. Thats why keep on rereading our history in every department of our life.
Past Defeats will give us lesson not to do it again...past glories will motivate us to do it again.

[fieldmarshal]

hakimullah went on to become air chief marshal

[SABRE]

hakimullah went on to become air chief marshal

What both of them????...What was it a game??? You capture me and we both become famous and we both might end up as Air Chief Marshal's.
This could have only made HakimUllah Air Chief Marshal not Sikand

[SABRE]

Take a look at these Pictures guys..realy interesting..It includes IAF jets brought down along with land forces successful farward towards Indian Borders.

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/war/wargallery/

Do care to comment on these pics

[P.A.F]

hey saber i never ment what you thought. i was ment to say that pakistans like lookin at their history and at the same time lookin into the future. :D:

[insas556]

Take a look at these Pictures guys..realy interesting..It includes IAF jets brought down along with land forces successful farward towards Indian Borders.

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/war/wargallery/

Do care to comment on these pics
Some thing is afoot here !!!!!!!! Any way
Ya, there is lots of return fire from the other side too.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Images-1965c.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Patton.html

[Soldier]

Nice historical pictures from Insas and Saber. Perhaps a lot of lessons are to be learnt from these pictures.

[SABRE]

Take a look at these Pictures guys..realy interesting..It includes IAF jets brought down along with land forces successful farward towards Indian Borders.

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/war/wargallery/

Do care to comment on these pics
Some thing is afoot here !!!!!!!! Any way
Ya, there is lots of return fire from the other side too.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Images-1965c.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Patton.html

Man I only ment to show Pics of Pak army's success not insult Indians and I hope you have posted this with the same manner and attitude. No hard feelings :D: Clareify ur self b4 ppl start thinking we r havin an Indo PAk fight here.

[gf0012-aust]

It may not have been the intent in here, but please avoid mocking and making fun of those who serve in the military in any country. Those who serve in uniform deserve some respect - irrespective of what country they fight for.

[umair]

And do read the http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php
Specifically rule#5 :roll

[SABRE]

And do read the http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php
Specifically rule#5 :roll

Yeah but I dont think any one of us has disrespected any countries army. We just posted pictures of military success of our own countries respectively.
Dont u think insas556 :D:

It has nothin to do with Indo Pak conflict :D:

[srirangan]

ohh yeah .. bangladesh is now a country hahahahah aint that funny

[SABRE]

ohh yeah .. bangladesh is now a country hahahahah aint that funny

R u trying to run wild on me on every topic and post I submit or its some thing you do and cant stop.
You realy want that debat badly from "ARE WE FRIENDS YET" dont you?
stick with the rools of this forum and with the topic.

[gf0012-aust]

:cop :cop Everyone needs to settle down in here. No more reflex responses, one liners or barbs. :nono

Post re-opened after renaming the title topic.

The moderating group have all agreed that in future any "one liners", flippant responses or baits will results in automatic deletion of that response.

Plse pay attention to the rules and continue to post.

[SABRE]

:cop :cop [color=red]Everyone needs to settle down in here. No more reflex responses, one liners or barbs. :nono

Ok Boss...but you tell SriRangan....hes been posting sentimental post and that made carried away.

[srirangan]

Boss .. this whole thread was mocking my country and just one comment from me makes you piss your pants?

This thread directly violates the rules and still it exists .. shame

[gf0012-aust]

Boss .. this whole thread was mocking my country and just one comment from me makes you piss your pants?

This thread directly violates the rules and still it exists .. shame

Yes, it does contradict the rules of good behaviour, hence the universal warning. If I was to react to every response then a lot of posts in here would automatically go into lockup - hardly useful to the spirit of debate.

This way, everyone gets the chance to modify their responses without having the thread go into the ice age.

My job is to make sure that you guys don't try and club each other all the time when its not necessary - "pi$$ing my pants" - is not something that has occurred to me to be a motivating factor in moderating these things.

I can quite happily wield a cudgel and lock down the post - but that will not serve any purpose except make viewing and response times awfully short.

Conversely, the thread can stay open as long as people modify the way they react to each other and the post gains a little more respectability.

I get Pakistani posters who say I give Indian posters too much slack, and then I get Indian posters who say I give the Pakistani's too much slack. In the last two days I had an Australian question the fact that I warned a poster on an anti-jewish statement, he reasoned that I should sin bin the poster immediately. So far it's only the Americans who have left me alone. ;)

[srirangan]

Okay think about it.

A thread callin' the Indian forces "fools", a similar thread about Pak would've been deleted even before it got even 1 read, and you are still advocating letting this thread stay and you hope it gains respectability.

eh.

[srirangan]

Ohh wait..

So far it's only the Americans who have left me alone.

I ain't askin you to interfere, just don't interfere in one's favour .. I can give'em enough by myself and I don't need friends with special links to make me look good.

[SABRE]

When I posted this topic I didnt know ppl would take the SUBJETC as anti India act. I did not mean to insult India nor its army. I just used an old but popular cleche to describe a foolish act by a pilot. The whole purpose of the post was to bring in other such stories from different countries about different pilots, navy officer & land officers. I mentioned b4 in this thread that to isass that I didnt ment to insult any country and the pics I posted were just of Pak army's success in a war- Now we have only fought 3 wars and all of them with India, so how do I bring in pics of Pak army's success against some other country.

I am sorry boss...I'll try to avoid any thing that goes against the rulz and I will have no problem If you had to change the name of the SUBJECT better change it to "WHAT WAS HE THINKING" I think that wont bother Sri and other Indians.

[Salman78]

Sikand wasnt a fool. His luck ran out. He didnt land there on purpose. Any other pilot would have done the same thing under those circumstances as he was running low on fuel.

Unless ofcourse one has courage like Rashid Minhas who preferred death over surrender.

[P.A.F]

why don't we just change the post subject to suit our indian friend :) maybe then the thread will be a little more peaceful.

[WebMaster]

Srirangan, please suggest an appropriate subject for the thread?

[srirangan]

No source for the story, next thing I'll come up with imaginary stories about PAK personnel. I think this must be deleted cause all this thread aims to do is to ridicule a country and its forces without any source or credibility.

gtg now .. my stupid comp is buggin me like shit .. i put 512mb ram and it still screws up.. argh i hate windows..

[WebMaster]

I see. Saber you have link/source for this?

#18 (http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php#18)

[Salman78]

No source for the story, next thing I'll come up with imaginary stories about PAK personnel. I think this must be deleted cause all this thread aims to do is to ridicule a country and its forces without any source or credibility.

gtg now .. my stupid comp is buggin me like *shuck* .. i put 512mb ram and it still screws up.. argh i hate windows..


Srirangan... U need to come down to Karachi and look at this war trophy urself. Nothing else will convience you. So this story is not fake or ridicule or whatever u wish to call it. No source is needed cause this is a hardcore established fact.

By the way... here it is :smokingc:

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/warbirds/images/gnat_ie1083.jpg

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/warbirds/fandb.html

And another link from an indian website

http://www.warbirdsofindia.com/ovgnat.html

[gf0012-aust]

Okay think about it.

A thread callin' the Indian forces "fools", a similar thread about Pak would've been deleted even before it got even 1 read, and you are still advocating letting this thread stay and you hope it gains respectability.

eh.

Actually, I read it as "fool" for someone who might have made a foolish decision. I certainly didn't see it as a slight in Indians. perhaps it's a perception thing.

In hindsight i see your point. Perhaps you could do what others have in the past - PM me if you think something has been overstepped, that way we can deal with it without having these things re-occur.

I can assure you, that if I considered it malicious, I would have locked it pretty quickly.

As it is there is now an expectation it will be renamed. (which hasn't happened) So once Saber gets back with to me (or another mod) with a socially acceptable title it will remain locked.

[SABRE]

No source for the story, next thing I'll come up with imaginary stories about PAK personnel. I think this must be deleted cause all this thread aims to do is to ridicule a country and its forces without any source or credibility.

gtg now .. my stupid comp is buggin me like *shuck* .. i put 512mb ram and it still screws up.. argh i hate windows..


Srirangan... U need to come down to Karachi and look at this war trophy urself. Nothing else will convience you. So this story is not fake or ridicule or whatever u wish to call it. No source is needed cause this is a hardcore established fact.

By the way... here it is :smokingc:

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/warbirds/images/gnat_ie1083.jpg

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/warbirds/fandb.html

And another link from an indian website

http://www.warbirdsofindia.com/ovgnat.html

Thanks salman, after your links and photos I dnt think Srirangan has to come down here to Karachi. Thats enough proof.
Thanks for posting the links before I could, I would have had to go through search engine again to find this. Anyways I think I found it on Indian website. Bharatrakshak may be.

Sorry sri for every thing but now you have got the proof.

[SABRE]

READ THIS LINK:

Following link contains whole story to this incident. Along with Sikand's picture as POW. I think this would be enough proof for Srirangan. But every one should read it cause its interesting.

http://www.pafcombat.com/great-ab/run-its-a-104.htm

[VICTORA1]

Guys,
This plane flew right above our house. My father was posted in the city of Samasatta at that time. My father yelled at me to run outside and see the plane flying by and I came running out and saw it. I was only 8 years old at that time.

[SABRE]

Guys,
This plane flew right above our house. My father was posted in the city of Samasatta at that time. My father yelled at me to run outside and see the plane flying by and I came running out and saw it. I was only 8 years old at that time.

Hmmm. U wre 8 yrs old in 1965. U must be 47-48 yrs old now. BTW what was your house doing near an active air field during a war? and how do u knw it was the same Indian Jet?

[VICTORA1]

Sabre,
Samasatta is not too far from the border. The plane had to take a flight route and incidently it flew over our house as it might have flown over many other towns. Yeah I am 47 now and my father told me the same day what had happened with that plane.

[SABRE]

Sabre,
Samasatta is not too far from the border. The plane had to take a flight route and incidently it flew over our house as it might have flown over many other towns. Yeah I am 47 now and my father told me the same day what had happened with that plane.

Must have been some experiance. Give details share with other will ya.