What should be PAF strategy if India Attacks?

[yasin_khan]

WHAT SHOULD BE PAF STRATEGY IF INDIA ATTACKS AND WHICH AIRCRAFT DO BEST IN ITS CAPABILITIES ? :cop

[mod edit: next time lose the caps lock]

[yasin_khan]

CURRENT INVENTRY OF PAF
a.F-16A\B 32 MULTIROLE\WARTIME GROUND ATTACK FIGHTER
b.F-7 MP 160 AIR SUPERIORTY FIGHTER AND INTERCEPETER
c. F-7 PG 55 MULTI ROLE AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER
d.MIRAGE IIIO 43 AIR SUPERIORITY AND GROUND ATTACK
e.MIRAGE IIIE 40 AIR SUPERIORITY AND GROUND ATTACK
f. MIRAGE 5 58 AIR SUPERIORITY,GROUND ATTACK AND ANTI SHIP FIGHTER
g. A-5C 48 GROUND ATTACK\STRIKE FIGHTER
h. MIRAGE IIIRP 12 RECONNAISSANCE AIRCRAFT.
i. FALCON DA-20 2 ELINT\ECM
j. C-130B\E 20 HEAVY TACTICAL TRANSPORT

[Londo Molari]

WHAT SHOULD BE PAF STRATEGY IF INDIA ATTACKS AND WHICH AIRCRAFT DO BEST IN ITS CAPABILITIES ? :cop

Ask the PAF... they have all the information. They probably already have a strategy, based on their current strength and environment.

Since India has numerical and qualitative advantage, Pakistan's has no real offensive capability. But for defence, I think their strategy is to exploit the terrain and natural environment... in case of an Indian attack, Pakistan will have the home field advantage, and they'll use their knowledge of the terrain to set up defences... they probably have SAMs hidden in effective locations, and they'll try to force the InAF into WVR combat against overwhelming numbers.

If you compare PAF fighters to Indian aircraft, all our different fighters are basically small payload, single engined fighters with short range missiles. So there are no big differences in our aircraft anymore (unlike 15 years ago, when our F-16 was very advanced). I think the F-7 is used for point defence, F-16 is used for interception, and Mirages are used for strike, specially anti-shipping, because of the Exocet missile.

Edit: Ofcourse India would never attack Pakistan until we have nukes, because we don't have a "no-first-strike" policy... so we if are losing a conventional war, we might use nukes. So if India attacks, it'll attack nuclear facilitied first, or get someone else to sabotage them.

[Hataf]

It would be a joke of day if india attack's pakistan, no way, untill we got nukes no chance of such suicidal thing.

[insas556]

It would be a joke of day if india attack's pakistan, no way, untill we got nukes no chance of such suicidal thing.

Not really, both countries are exploring strategies , as they perceive, of how much the other can take before the nuclear threshold is crossed. After all Kargil happened in a sitiuation when both sides are armed with nuclear weapons.

[yasin_khan]

plz
hataf and insas556 stick to the topic it is about the paf strategy not about the nuclear and missile doctorine.

Admin: And lets leave the moderation to the moderators!

[P.A.F]

Well if i were general then my strategy would be:
Hit First, Hit Hard And Keep On Hitting ;)

[Oqaab]

b.F-7 MP 160 AIR SUPERIORTY FIGHTER AND INTERCEPETER
c. F-7 PG 55 MULTI ROLE AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER


The F-7PG is the Pakistani name for J-7MP.

The two versions of F-7 Pakistan operates are F-7P and F-7PG(MP).

[Aussie Digger]

A massive pre-emptive nuclear strike against India's major military bases and population centres. If you've got em might as well use em... :eek

Seriously though, they should take whatever measures are necessary. IF all out war occurs, then do everything they can. If smaller attacks occur, they should be met with a similar (though defensive) level of force, thus demonstrating political will and a willingness to defend their own and showing the rest of the world that they are definitely NOT the aggressors. Who knows? World opinion may swing against India in this type of scenario and help might even be forthcoming...

[umair]

Oqaab, u're wrong on the designations' account.The F-7P=F-7MP
and F-7PG=F-7MG. ;)

[Hataf]

It would be a joke of day if india attack's pakistan, no way, untill we got nukes no chance of such suicidal thing.

Not really, both countries are exploring strategies , as they perceive, of how much the other can take before the nuclear threshold is crossed. After all Kargil happened in a sitiuation when both sides are armed with nuclear weapons.


then move this to Strategic Defence issues, i think this thread is relates to aviation tech not war

[santpaul]

well i think PAF will mostly use anti aircraft guns since it can't dogfight with indian SU-30MKI.India will mostly use SU-30 because PAf has no answer to it.The fact is that Pakistan is falling behing and need to recover or the country is in toruble

[fieldmarshal]

nuke the hell out of india

[Pathfinder-X]

Here is the strategy:

both sides go back to their borders and shake hands!!!! problems solved!! :D:

ok seriously, the possibility of war between these two rivals is reducing every year. Both sides have shown interest to solved their problems on the table rather than slug it out on the battlefield.

[mysterious]

Reducing every year? This is only the second year that things have gone in the positive and peaceful directions. ;)

[Londo Molari]

We are in the THIRD year AFTER the last BUILD up... we havent had an actual conflict since Kargil, which was long ago.

Yes, war seems unlikely now, and I am glad...good for both countries.

And somone mentioned anti-aircraft guns.... dude those are useless if the aircraft is flying above a certain altitude... they are only for guard against low flying aurcraft....

So for Su-30MKIs, land based defences are not going to work. It will probably launch air2suirface standoff missiles from 100+ km away... so anti aircraft guns are useless... and so are Pakistan's SAMS, the maximum range of whom is 40km (if we are lucky). So for Su-30MKI, we have to engage in the air.

[umair]

Hey londo! you trying to become an accouting proffessional too?
What's the qualification u'r pursuing?That accounting cycle presentation on your site is good.Easy enough to be understood even by a layman.Nice work[hijack off]

[Oqaab]

Oqaab, u're wrong on the designations' account.The F-7P=F-7MP
and F-7PG=F-7MG. ;)

Thanx for clearification. :D:

[yasin_khan]

i think we have got sa2 sam system but its not adequet.we need long range sams which will be effective foe su30mki.
PAF
yours strategy is good .if we attack first and do not give time to enemy and destroy the main assets of military and economy then it will be easy to dominate but this strategy only works if we got good defence,good fighter planes and large quantity of reserves. :idea:

[XEROX]

what will be the role of your Navy??

[mysterious]

Its better if the Navy's role is not discussed for now because as soon as Gwadar comes up, the strategy of PN would change as the bulk of trade that goes through Karachi would shift to Gwadar. This means, Indian Navy will have a hard time cutting off Gwadar (which was not the case with Karachi as its too close to Indian waters) and so it gives PN more time and chance to bolster its defenses as far as my thinking goes. :smokingc:

[yasin_khan]

if we attack first then tere will be agressive role of navy to neutrilize Indian navy and agusta 90b will do good job.it will do best if PAF covers them. :smokingc:

[Oqaab]

In order to counter India PAF should,

1. Acquire long range SAMs(ABMs). FT-2000 anti-radiation missile is a good option.

2. Try to grab AWACS instead of negotiating for 4th generation fighters. PAF has 2 billion to buy western fighters and countries like France or Brasil will not hesitate to sell their AWACS systems(Airbus or EBM-145) if we offer this amount.

3. All aircrafts operational and battle-ready. Even jet trainers like FT-5s and FT-6s.

4. All the bombs, missiles and ammu should be made available.

[yasin_khan]

oqaab u r right.
first long range sams are needed like ft-2000.
secondly AWACs are also neede like e-3 sentry if possible otherwise e-2 hawkey.
thirdly fourth generation fighter is also neede to counter mig 29s , su 30 mkis so jas 39 grippen ,rafle a\c ,ef-2000,j-10 etc should be inducted in PAF.
last that tainings of pilot should be done perfectly.

[P.A.F]

like i said before. the strategy should be
Hit First, Hit Hard And Keep On Hitting[/b]

[VICTORA1]

Guys,
A couple of years ago "POPULAR SCIENCE" reported that somehow Pakistan got the EMP weapons through some of the students(graduated) working in the UCLA labs in so california. It was initially thought that high vulneability targets could be protected by faraday cages, but the indian researchers found out that late emp effect could be as destructive as the initial blast.

An effective device would be a great force multiplier for pakistan as was observed in the not too recent stand off between the two neighbours.

[corsair7772]

You people arent taking into conideration the fact that our wartime fighting ability lasts for 4 weeks. Pronto. We cant afford to hit n keep hittin hard. Unless were gettin supplies from china which are likely to come by air via gilgit.

[P.A.F]

your wrong there. Pakistan is garrantied to get help from the arabs as well. and chinese aid would come from the karakurum express way and via air. :smokingc:

[yasin_khan]

PAF is right that we will get economical and material aid from both China and Arabs.
:smokingc:

[Soldier]

PAF is right that we will get economical and material aid from both China and Arabs.
:smokingc:

That is the most poor statement PAF. You can not go to war thinking that you will get supplies from your friends. A nation has to be prepared for war depending upon its own strength and stocks. You can never be sure of supplies as political scenario in wartimes is totally different then in peacetime.

[adsH]

PAF is right that we will get economical and material aid from both China and Arabs.
:smokingc:

That is the most poor statement PAF. You can not go to war thinking that you will get supplies from your friends. A nation has to be prepared for war depending upon its own strength and stocks. You can never be sure of supplies as political scenario in wartimes is totally different then in peacetime.

No soldier when ever India goes to war it relies on its reserves crude oil supply and the traditionally the Arabs (Iraq, Saddam in Particular). Pakistan Has relied on two main sources one is Saudi and the second is Iran. the weapon supplies if need be comes from China. this is the type of support they need if an Event such as a war occurs. UAE i guess would not supply either since it wants to be neutral. Even the US relied on its regional Allies/supplier in the Iraq war to replenish there supplies of Food and Fuel, i know the US Armed forces are very particular in what they feed there Forces (with good reasons) but i guess British forces have a Tendency to make the most of where they're stationed ie using whatever is available locally.

[P.A.F]

also india would rely on russia in war time.

[corsair7772]

your wrong there. Pakistan is garrantied to get help from the arabs as well. and chinese aid would come from the karakurum express way and via air. :smokingc:

hehe i think your talkin about the 1970s and 80s amigo when libya was gonna send mirages and the other arabs there F-5s. The F-5s could have been inducted quickly because our pilots and engineers had experience on them when they handled them during there postings. But in those dayz pakistan was something of a muslim hero cuz of its bomb program and everyone wanted a slice of it. But now they dont. Most of them are at peace, bankrupt, already having a detterent or just plain uninterested. You cant expect more than a trickle of aid from them although ur rite in saying well get financial and diplomatic support and some small military aid (rmmbr the indian rumour of Saudis sending their F-15s and E-3s to support pakistan :roll ).

As for china there are only hope if there transports dont get blasted out of the air by the IAF or if the Karakoram highway isnt busted by IAF strikes (its very easy to block mountain passes). As for shipping, you guyz are damn smart and already know that the IN is a problem here not counting the IAF again. India is growing confident everyday of its abilities thanks to growing cooperation wid israel and US as well as billions of dollars worth of new equipment. Also Chinese equipment is different from Pakistani one. Take the A-5 and F-7 for example. They both have different weapons suits from the PLAAF fighters of same type. Evn the Jf-17 will have different systems and so will the J-10 if its inducted. But i suppose your right when it comes to Army equipment which should be similar in a way. As for PN, the missiles used by both sides should be the same and so should a few other items but basically its going to be a rough ride for them too.

This is an excellent topic to some research and analysis for defense analysts like us. We really should study the possibilty of integrating AEW or MP systems or Fighters of chinese origin into Pakistani armed forces in a very short time. :smokingc:

[XEROX]

The Indian and Iranian goverment are showing great rapour, gas and oil from iran would not be objected to in war time

But Pak would always Blockade it!!

[XEROX]

though hasnt India already negotiated with Iran and Russia, the construction of a North-South corridor that can be used for sending Indian goods to Central Asia via Iran

[P.A.F]

oh and one more point. you know the gwadar port. that can help pakistan quite alot because it has got trains leadin to not only china but also afganistan & uzbekistan or some country like that. hey aid can now come via 3 different ways and i'm sure the SAM sites and PAF can protect them. well at least one then :D: . and even if we don't get that much help we have got our last restort and i'm sure the pakistanis know what that is :smokingc: . all we need now is a jet which could easily smash the su-30MKI. somin like the Jas-39 and then the PAF will be sorted for another 5-10 years after inductin that aircraft.

[XEROX]

Do you think the Jas-39 can "smash" the SU-30MKI :?:

[P.A.F]

definately. better avionics and sub systems etc... anyways if you wanna discuss this then lets do it in another thread. i'll make one. ;)

[XEROX]

ok lets

[Soldier]

oh and one more point. you know the gwadar port. that can help pakistan quite alot because it has got trains leadin to not only china but also afganistan & uzbekistan or some country like that. hey aid can now come via 3 different ways and i'm sure the SAM sites and PAF can protect them. well at least one then :D: . and even if we don't get that much help we have got our last restort and i'm sure the pakistanis know what that is :smokingc: . all we need now is a jet which could easily smash the su-30MKI. somin like the Jas-39 and then the PAF will be sorted for another 5-10 years after inductin that aircraft.

Too much of wishful thinking PAF... You are hinting towards nuclear scenario. I do not think Pakistani leaders will be foolish enough to press nuclear button in a limited war or unless they realize that India is going to outright dis-integrate Pakistan, as that will be totally suicidal for Pakistan, so forget about Nuclear standoffs as that s never gonna happen. I do not think there will be a war but if there will be it will be limited war to reduce other to an extent where it is no more a threat for a decade or more. And in that it is going to be the superior Arms, ammuniation, training which is going to play the major role. In that scenario, I do not think Pakistan has currently anything in their arsenal to fight India off. No amount of strategy will work in favor of Pakistan in the current scenario, unless Pakistani forces are upgraded sooner then soonest.

[P.A.F]

thats why i said that nuclear is our LAST RESORT.

[yasin_khan]

Indians have some problems with Pakistani Nuclear Missiles or Weapons or they are just jealous of us.They dont want to hear that we have nuclear bomb.I know that if Pakistani armed forces are destroyed and there would be no other way to neutrilize or end the war then Pakistan will definantely use their nuclear weapons.these weapons are developed for defense of Pakistan.and we also know that India is a big country and 5-10 nuclear bombs will do nothing and if India strikes back she will destroy our major cities.but HUM TU DOBEIN GA SANAM TUM KO BHI LAY DOBEIN GAY :cop

[P.A.F]

like i said before. the best strategy for PAF is hit first hit hard and keep on hitting. that way minimum damage will be done to pakistan.

[yasin_khan]

PAF
your strategy is good its esay to hit first but its hard to keep on hitting.
Pakistan is not in position to take air superiority.ANd they have not enough reserves to keep on hitting. :cop

[P.A.F]

yeah and i'm sure we have enough stocks to desable india for a couple of days if we hit there key bases and weapon sites. if pakistan are to get anything out of war then they must not let the opposition breath :smokingc:

[corsair7772]

lol man you have no idea how well india has fortified its main bases. Ask Pj-10 to give you a link on that. In case you didnt know the PAF has adopted a strategy of hittin important transportation links instead of airbases. Indian Airbases have very strong shelters and modern techniques of recovering from an attack in a few moments. Gone are the traditional techniques of runway repair teams. And i am NOT counting the factors which AEW systems, Deadly interceptors, complex radar networks, satellite imagery and all that include. Were not even going to have enough strike aircraft until 2012 or something. India will keep all its new modern aircraft in the best of fortifications. Besides allocating moern sam systems for fixes defence of its airbases its ability to react even if we get a strike going would be devastating. What would happen if we run into a patriot or S-300 at one of those bases? Its very sensible of the PAF to concentrate more on communication targets as this would considerably slow down indian mobilization. In a short war its not about how many troops you have but how many you commit on the battle front.

PS i did NOT mention that the PAF doesnt even have enough precision munitions to attack airbases, there all gonna be commited to attacks on armour and comm targets and maybe industrial as well. What are you gonna take on pathankot with, Iron bombs? :D:

[Soldier]

As I said earlier, PAF and SABER, no amount of strategy is going to work in Pakistan's favor unless Pakistan inducts some latest weaponary in its airforce, Navy & Land forces. BTW I would hate to see war between two in my lifetime at least. I have been to Pakistan and I love the people there too. If you forget about the religion, everything is bloody same.
Peace...

[lalith prasad]

new technology is one factor but the most important factor for paf would be to be able to coordinate with army or navy if it wants to acheive even some form of initial success against india. more than the technology of the iaf paf needs to worry about iaf's ability to fight a coordinated war with its army and navy.one way would be to destroy the communication links.pakistan needs to concentrate on a comprehensive ew capability.

[corsair7772]

Were working on the EW thing. The chinese have some very good Jamming and Jamming resistant systems but very crude surveillance and counter measure systems. Technology isnt going to decide a war anymore; the indians have already won the technology race. Were going to have to use cunningness and good strategy and can afford nothing less. And lalith, its communication targets the PAF will concentrate on and i can assure you that this is an objective which we can acheive substantial success in. We already have a factory converting 2000lb bombs to precision munitions and along with the Amercan systems and under-evaluation chinese precision munitions. wed have an arsenal of precision guided bombs to be reckoned with. :smokingc:

[SABRE]

As I said earlier, PAF and SABER, no amount of strategy is going to work in Pakistan's favor unless Pakistan inducts some latest weaponary in its airforce, Navy & Land forces. BTW I would hate to see war between two in my lifetime at least. I have been to Pakistan and I love the people there too. If you forget about the religion, everything is bloody same.
Peace...

Ok I can understand y u r saying things to PAF but y r u draging me into this what did I say. or you are quoting both of us from some other thread's post.

[Soldier]

As I said earlier, PAF and SABER, no amount of strategy is going to work in Pakistan's favor unless Pakistan inducts some latest weaponary in its airforce, Navy & Land forces. BTW I would hate to see war between two in my lifetime at least. I have been to Pakistan and I love the people there too. If you forget about the religion, everything is bloody same.
Peace...

Ok I can understand y u r saying things to PAF but y r u draging me into this what did I say. or you are quoting both of us from some other thread's post.

I am sorry Saber, I did not mean to include you but Yasin. I apologize.

[manna]

HI pj, please do not change the topic, remain concenterated on the original topic , and that is wat will be the starategy of PAF in case india attacks, :?

[manna]

Lalith , excellent analysis, and suggestion , realy the PAF should worry about making such a coordination so as to defend its frontiers and then make a punch to hit back , untill and unless it does not have this coordination it will remain over stretched in the excercise of her roles, any such efficient coordination will share it burdone and will then make it able to performs its tasks to the best of its capabiliteis,
I heard that they do have such a plateform from whr the joint operations are carried out, i mean planned rehearsed and then executed but they need to make it more viable , :smokingc:

[yasin_khan]

To normalize the situation we need some new weapons and planes.
1. Jas 39 Grippen or EF 2000.
2. Long range SAMs like FT-2000 at least 10.
3. AWACs E2 Hawkeye or E3 Sentry.
4. Lots of well trained pilots.
5. All current Mirages upgraded to ROSE I-II.
6. Induction of JF-17 atleast 50 planes.
7. A CAS aircraft like A-10 Thunderbolt or SU-25.
I think with these all things Indian will not dare to attack on us.
Pakistan will easily attack Indian bases and lots of flying busses(SU-30 MKIs).

[Soldier]

To normalize the situation we need some new weapons and planes.
1. Jas 39 Grippen or EF 2000.
2. Long range SAMs like FT-2000 at least 10.
3. AWACs E2 Hawkeye or E3 Sentry.
4. Lots of well trained pilots.
5. All current Mirages upgraded to ROSE I-II.
6. Induction of JF-17 atleast 50 planes.
7. A CAS aircraft like A-10 Thunderbolt or SU-25.
I think with these all things Indian will not dare to attack on us.
Pakistan will easily attack Indian bases and lots of flying busses(SU-30 MKIs).

I guess that is what I had been trying to tell you guys that unless Pakistan inducts latest weaponary.......there is nothing much to do other then pressing nuclear button. :D: :D:

[corsair7772]

Here a list of factors explaining why we cant use dat list. Well the Gripen and Ef-2000 are abt as likely to entre service as F-18. No ones made a firm deal yet and frankly speaking i dont see how one would materialize ( my advice, see facts instead of newpapers). For SAMs u have to explain why uve chosen the FT-2000 here. Its designed to target AEW or electronic surveillance systems and is a large missile incapable of targetting small aircraft. 10 is too large a number if its AEW systems were only engaging. No way is the US selling us E-2 C or E-3 Sentry. While it might be possible that the E-2C would be cleared its not the same for the E-3 and i dont know why u even mentioned it in the first place. And a note about the E-2C, it has to be configured for specific roles. For example for martime or for land surveilance meaning that the PAF would not be able to let the PN make use of it. Also the E-2C cannot be used in mountain areas cuz of its ground clutter problem. So dats no martime and no kashmir. How in blazes are we supposed to cover our operations in our most important theatre than??? And one thing: Well trained pilots arent like crops or animals that they can be grown or bred. Careful training is required and youd still have a lot of bad eggs. And for cryin out aloud, the rose 1 or 2 is only to keep the mirages in the 3rd generation until the JF-17s bcum available. There no match for the Indian arsenal anyway, even if we can pay for all that in the first place. And 50 Jf-17s arent gonna stops 200 Mirages or Su-30s if the time frame ur talking about is 2010. And in anycase they be in interceptor version not the multirole one which comes after 2010. And even the interceptor one has its limits. The Grifo 7 is not really that good as it seems. IT LACKS MULTI TARGETTING CAPABILITY. And we dont need CAS aircraft like A-10 or Su-25 when were planning to use our K-8s for CAS quite sensibele due to resource restrictions. And in anycase the A-10 does not have the ability to fight off the Su-30 and we dont have the proper interceptors fr escorting them yet. Bang there goes ur expensive A-10 or watever. As if the indians are going to be scared of a few of CAS aircraft.

No offence if i was a bit hard there amigo. ;)

[XEROX]

So what are PAK going to purchase first - A/C or an AWACs

[Salman78]

If India attacks Pakistan then we would have very few choices. Sending in our attact aircraft to target their bases would yield few results with heavy losses. All PAF aircraft are good only for point defence.

Best strategy would be to win time, avoid direct contact :help and show a live video feed of our ballistic missiles being readied for a full fledged nuclear strike on major cities and bases. :cop That would definitly work .

[srirangan]

Salman78,

Your nuke threat strike might work in the reverse. India has second strike capability, and if she's hit, her retaliation will cause the dismemberment of Pakistan.

Remember we can take a hit and survive, you can't. And PAK will have no sympathy left in the RoW if she uses nukes first, India has a no first use doctrine in place.

[VICTORA1]

Guys,
You people need to read this article in POPULAR MECHANICS I believe that of september 2001 issue regarding emp---the pakistan and india connection. After you read that article, most of your theories would fizzle out.

Srirangan, If pakistan does not make the first strike, it is gone. If pakistan makes the first strike it is gone. It is a no win stuation for pakistan. As for the second strike indian capability, as a paklistani, I would say that atleast our misery is over---we are wasteland---population gone---but on the other hand india will have to live with the glow of radiation for a century to come to whatever is left over. This nuclear option is not something that one can calculate the after effects in black and white, just like that.

[gf0012-aust]

This nuclear option is not something that one can calculate the after effects in black and white, just like that.

Exactly, radiation fallout does not recognise borders, there would be a few unhappy neighbouring countries that would be very unimpressed with bits of their countries being radiated.

It is one reason why I see that North Korea (as an example) will be controlled as much as possible by the Chinese - they do not want the effects of a US retaliatory strike (unintentionaly and inadvertently) drifting across the border

China, Russia, Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey etc... all would be more than a little cranky at the spillage from an Indo-Pakistani spat.

[corsair7772]

sirri, no jokes about nukes but what makes you so sure that pakistan would readily nuke india for the loss of a few cities even if there lahore or hyderabad. We have a lot of cool heads up there ever since the 71 conflict which showed our limits. India may have a second strike but we ours is last strike. Tactical nukes however are another story but let me assure you that our nuclear strike ability is well defined and is more controlled than india's. Dont be fooled by what everyonr blabbers on TV ;)

[srirangan]

I'm not sayin Pak would nuke India ... I was replyin to Salman's proposal that Pak should nuke India ..

Ofcourse I understand the fall out of nukes, but do you really believe that India wouldn't nuke back if Pak nukes us?

[srirangan]

but let me assure you that our nuclear strike ability is well defined and is more controlled than india's

Yeah okay .. :lolol

[corsair7772]

Its nuthin to laugh about. You should read more about nuclear policies rather than Subhramans philosopihes on survivng a nuclear war which are completely crap. You dont survive a nuclear war by hiding in trenches and mudholes. You should realize that nations die out just like men...

However go through these links and youll know why i dont support nukes in either my own country or anyother.

http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/southasia.asp

http://www.cdi.org/blair/nuclear-folly.cfm

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/WM104.cfm

PS i think you should make another thread for this. Were deviating from the topic.

[srirangan]

I was just laughin at myst's same ol' rant: "everythin Pak has is better than India's" .. sometimes he just says it out of compultion than actually looking at the actualities

yes we are going off topic, I'll stop

Cheers!

[srirangan]

Better to live on than die, look atJapan. Anyway I'm not supporting or advocating a nuke conflict. I was just replying to Salman's scenario.

[lalith prasad]

u can survive nuclear blast by hiding deep underground unless the weapon in question ia an ion bomb.

[Salman78]

I prefer not to reply to individual posts especially if they r posted by ignorant ppl who post with an attitude of "If you disagree with me, you are wrong". My messege was taken completely out of context since ignorance prevents any useful input from one's brain...

Once again, India wont attack Pakistan just because it can and if they ever do, our policy would be to end the conflict as soon as possible & inflict maximum damage....

The threat of an imminent incoming nuclear strike works very well. it has kept NATO/EU safe for 50 years from Soviet invasion which numerically outnumbered NATO by leaps...

As for Pakistan's conventional and nuclear strike capability. It's not as bad as one might think. We have a decent air and surface strike potential and when it comes to nuclear strike it would once again be foolish to assume that we will keep all our eggs in the same basket. A lot of shaheen and ghouri's would be dispersed all over the country. take out a few and there still be others left for 2nd or even 3rd strike.

Assuming RAW/Indian military has enough common sense to figure this out. Will Indians ever attack Pakistan in the first place ? i dont think so. We are very much capable of hitting back hard. Just because we never did and never want to dosnt mean we r not capable of.

Last word... A few more years and PAF will have aircraft equipped with BVR missiles and that alone will put any nasty indian ambitions to deep sleep.

Ok.. Final word... Statistics!!! One needs to check the kill to loss ratio of 65 and 71 wars and in both wars pakistan's airforce outclassed IAF. Keeping our pilot traning and decipline in mind.. India has no chance...

Happy daydreaming :cry

[XEROX]

Pakistan once used to have the qualitative edge over the skies but not anymore and maybe never again???

[yasin_khan]

PJ-10
U r totally wrong any thing is possible in this world if u got money and luck.ya it is truth that we Pakistanis have lack of money,our GDP increases slowly but in luck we r the best.i want to give u an example.
"In 70s we got only F-6,Mirage III and some absolute F-86, but by the good luck,Pakistan became the front line state to counter Soviets in Afghanistan and got state of art F-16 fighting falcon"
Pakistan is now also Non NATO Ally and will get some good stuf from USA and Western Countries. :smokingc:

[XEROX]

what the f-22??

[XEROX]

Comapred to the IAF pak doesnt have much intercation with modern aircraft and its training (hours) are lesser !!

[yasin_khan]

PJ-10
thats why every week 1 or 2 IAF planes crashed. :D

[XEROX]

dude the planes that crashed "once or twice a week" where shit, have a look at it, they were extreamly old and Obsolete

[XEROX]

If the PAF had that kind of aircraft im sure the same would have happened!!

[yasin_khan]

PJ-10
only two things come first bad trainings and second maintanence.

[mysterious]

Yasin is right PJ-10. First of all, Mig-21 is a quite difficult aircraft to fly (you need real good skills to be able to handle that baby); secondly maintainance has been a nice issue with 'em in IAF and last but not the least, a good deal of crashes have happened cuz of rookie pilots being told to take a trip in the 'flying coffins'. :cop

[corsair7772]

Keep on under estimating the IAF and itll be you needing first line maintenance. :P

I thought ud have more sense than looking down on the IAF. Hate to break it to you kiddo but its not only PAF pilots that go abroad to train arabs. In Iraq while we were training there interceptors low altitude tactics the IAf was teaching their strike aircraft hi level tactics. Similarly while we were flying Libya's Su-24s the indians were working on the infra structure. And its true that the IAF has been badly immobalized due to old equpiment and lack of spares because the problem of spares from russia still presist and HAL has only recently begun rebuilding the Mig-21s. ANd india is about to start working on some of the best aircraft in the world such as the Su-30 and M-2000 and could possibly even induct Su-37s or F-22s a few years later. Backed by this would be an awesome infra structure and industrail and technical ability not to mention lots of experience fyling aganst ISraelis and USAF.

[XEROX]

exellently said!!!

[VICTORA1]

PJ,
Pakistani pilots are averaging over 200 plus flying hours on a consistent basis for the last many many years. On the other hand indian pilots were doing 130 to 140 hrs. Now this might have changed in the last year or two.

Secondly, pakistanis have I believe 3+ pilots to a plane as compared to less than two pilots averaging per plane for the indians which means that more sorties to be flown.

Thirdly, what has brought wealth to india has also become the reason to avert the war between these two neighbours. These credit card call centers, computer technology backup system---the world economies are being controlled by the efficient running of these places---a war with india would mean a major blow to the welfare of the western states and I don't think that would be allowed---GE did prevail in the 2002 confrontation.

So the reason that is there for the welbeing and prosperity and heavy defence spending of the state is also the reason for it to not to go over the edge.

[XEROX]

The Indian fighter pilots have been getting as many as 300 flying hours per year and that the majority of those hours was spent in full-up combat training!!!

[XEROX]

this has been the case for the last few years i think

[srirangan]

Kargil onwards the IAF has increased the training time to 250-300 hrs

[lalith prasad]

besides iaf has been training regularly with the usaf ,french air force,israeli and other airforces. also singapore and india will be holding a joint excercises later this year where singapore will be bringing their f16s i beleive their f16s have been upgraded to block52 standard by israel.this will give india a lot of experience .i think this will be an annual excercise as india have offered singapore airforce training facilities in india.

[VICTORA1]

Guys,
Yeah, from 118 hrs to 300 hours---at first not enough flight time, now you want to break their backs. What is the next step!

Now coming back to the air war---you see, paf is going to go after all these computer tech centers that control the world economy right from gitgo. And if 'POPULAR MECHANIC' is correct in its assessment about pakistan having what it has, then someone would be paying a very high price for starting up the world market economy crash.

[yasin_khan]

Corsair7772

In Iraq while we were training there interceptors low altitude tactics the IAf was teaching their strike aircraft hi level tactics. Similarly while we were flying Libya's Su-24s the indians were working on the infra structure. And its true that the IAF has been badly immobalized due to old equpiment and lack of spares because the problem of spares from russia still presist and HAL has only recently begun rebuilding the Mig-21s.

ya u r right that IAF pilota teached them thats why they havent flew their aircrafts against the collation forces.that was Indian strategy that dont fky your fighters against enemy.

[Salman78]

Corsair7772
ya u r right that IAF pilota teached them thats why they havent flew their aircrafts against the collation forces.that was Indian strategy that dont fky your fighters against enemy.

Oh that was funny :D:

but seriously, can anyone post the link/source for this piece of info about IAF training arabs ? i'd love to read their contributions in any of those conflicts...

[mysterious]

India has had good contacts with both Iraq and Iran in defense sector including training of personnel.

[yasin_khan]

mysterious is right .
India has great links with Iraq,Iran and Egypt too.
India had trained Iraqi pilots.i have read in defense journal.

Plz stick to the topic.
What Should Be PAF Strategy If India Attacks?

Admin: Posts merged. Please don't post separate responses when you can include them in one post.

[Deltared075]

Kargil onwards the IAF has increased the training time to 250-300 hrs

The question was not how many hours they fly, the main question is what they flying?

[cheenamalai]

:cop

Mod Edit: Comments deleted.

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[rajupaki]

Pakistan air force should have to target the major economic centers which could damage the Indias economy and a left in major economic crises for future decades.

[srirangan]

Economic centers are many and wide apart. And they are common candidates so will be very protected. A PAF strike on them will be expected and will lack the "surprise" effect that is crucial.

[rajupaki]

Economic centers are many and wide apart. And they are common candidates so will be very protected. A PAF strike on them will be expected and will lack the "surprise" effect that is crucial.

Airfeild protected,cities protected, ecnomical centers protected, nuke protected, etc. Protected will be everything but one should have to do it some how if he want to win the war.

[srirangan]

You can't destory all of India's economic centers in one strike. If you could, I'ld support this strategy. But India is a very vast country, economic bases include Bombay, ports in Gujarat, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Ports on the western coast outside Gujarat (Cochin Goa Daman Diu) then who can forget the Eastern Coast (Vizag), then almost the entire Indo Gangetic Plains are economic production centers, Mining and chemicals in Bihar and Jharkand, textiles in Bengal, Oil refineries in Assam .. this list is endless.

There doesn't exist one particular economic center that the PAF can target. And then PAF doesn't have the strength in numbers to venture deep into Indian territories without leaving home skies slightly unguarded. Indian Air defence will to top notch too. Hence I feel to avoid the risk of bein completely overhauled PAF should retain itself to a defencive role.

[P.A.F]

listen guys. the bottom line is the PAF can't do jack except patrol the borders for any incomers and also support ground operations within the country. they just haven't got enough numbers to enter indian airspace to cause huge damage.
i'm sorry to say but until we don't get a HIGH-TECH aircraft in numbers along the lines of 80+ we are isolated to defend ourselves. we need to spend $$$$$$$$$ in the next few years if we are to have the ability to retaliate big time. :smokingc:

[VICTORA1]

Sri,
As Popular Mechanics reported in its sept 2001 cover story, if pakistan has EMP or the E BOMB, it would only take one airburst to break india's electronic industries backbone. Only one strike at banglore and not only bangalore would be gone, late effect EMP could travel through power and telecommunications infrastructure.

This article is a must read for people who follow the indian pakistani conflict.

It would be interesting to see if pak army can use it as a proximity strike missile against the indian AWACS in the future.

[adsH]

must say an EMP is lethal to an industrialized nation, i can't-imagine anyone using such a weapon just to get a point across, all the technology that would be lost, its insane and brutal, That did hurt my feelings. Anyways Victora would like to read the article have you got an INternet HyperLink or something for it.

[gf0012-aust]

Sri,
As Popular Mechanics reported in its sept 2001 cover story, if pakistan has EMP or the E BOMB, it would only take one airburst to break india's electronic industries backbone. Only one strike at banglore and not only bangalore would be gone, late effect EMP could travel through power and telecommunications infrastructure.

This article is a must read for people who follow the indian pakistani conflict.

It would be interesting to see if pak army can use it as a proximity strike missile against the indian AWACS in the future.

An atmospheric strike will actually destabilise all of the eaths low orbit satellites within 36 hrs.

On that basis, anyone who causes such massive impacts on the rest of the worlds infrastructure is not going to be "the most popular girl at the dance"

I'd suggest that there would be a few more unhappy nations other than the one directly attacked. Both the Americans and the Russians were aware of this for years. EMP does far more than just degrade local comms in the blast area - it's global effects are enormous over time.

The Pop Mechanics articles on these things never went into much detail - very much a simple analysis.