Saudis buy 20 Air trainers from Pakistan.

[gf0012-aust]

ABU DHABI [MENL] -- After a delay of more than a year, Saudi Arabia has signed a deal to purchase air trainers from Pakistan.

Diplomatic sources and Pakistani officials said the Saudi Defense Ministry has concluded a contract for the purchase of 20 SuperMashak air trainers from Pakistan. They said the contract was signed during a visit by a Pakistani defense delegation to Riyad earlier this month.

"The contract to sell these aircraft to the kingdom was signed recently," Pakistan's ambassador to Riyad, Abdul Aziz Mirza, said. "But whether delivery will be made according to a staggered schedule or in a fleet is still unclear."

Pakistani officials said the Saudi contract -- estimated at about $25 million -- fell far short of Islamabad's expectations. They said the Saudi Defense Ministry, which had been expected to sign the contract in early 2003, reduced its order from 40 to 20 platforms. The decision was said to have been taken during a ministry review held in wake of the fall of the Saddam Hussein regime in neighboring Iraq in 2003.

http://menewsline.com/stories/2004/june/06_23_3.html

[brahmos]

Do you have any specification for this Super Mashak?

[mysterious]

Mushshak MF-17 is a light weight, robust, three seat, single engine, all metal aircraft with tricycle landing gear. Its manufactured at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex In Kamra, with following details,

Span 29 ft
Length 23.5 ft
Height 8 ft 6.5 inch
Wing Area 128 sq ft
Power Plant Type Textron Lycoming AE10 - 360 - A1B6
Power 200 HP
Max Take-Off Weight 2,645 lb
Max Landing Weight 2,515 lb
Max Speed 130 kts
Cruise Speed 115 kts
TOD 50ft 825 ft
LD 50ft 1,030 ft
Range 580 nm
Endurance 10 hrs
Rate Of Climb 1,220 fpm
Load Factor +6, -3

pakdef

Its not as good as the K-8 but does its part of the job quite well. Obviously the Saudis didnt buy the original 40 planned as budget restraints are enormous for them! They have a "huge" (and I mean that in its broadest sense) deficit and so they cant afford to make extravagant purchases. They're probably waiting to get the K-8s which are much more advanced. :smokingc:

[VICTORA1]

Guys,
K 8 and Super Mushshak are two different kinds of planes and fill different needs. It is not that the Mushshak is inferior to K 8, it is just that you cannot use a corvette where you need a jeep.

[fieldmarshal]

mysterious ur specs are of mashak.the onces sold to saudi Arabia are the super mushak..the super mushaq which has a more powerfull engine and other modificatins that make it more effective.
secondly mushak is a basic trainer while the k-8 is an intermediate trainer and u qualify to fly this after u have succeeded in basic flying trining ie flyin the mashak. So mushak and k-8 are totally different aircrafts
An other thing around 11or 12 of these aircraft have already been manufactured at pac kamra and will be delivered immidiately to the saudis

[fieldmarshal]

the specs of a super mushak are as follows

Power Plant and Propeller

Super Mushak has a 194 kW (260 hp) Textron Lycoming IO-540-V4A5 flat-six engine. (2700 RPM at ISA conditions). The aircraft has been qualified with three and two blade Constant-Speed (B3D3C412-C/G-82NDA-8) propellers from Mccauley and Hartzell of USA.

Weights and Loadings

A = Aerobatics, U = Utility, N = Normal

Max external stores load: 300 kg (661 lb)
Max T-O weight: A=900 kg (1,984 lb), U=1,030 kg (2,270 lb), N=1,250 kg (2,755 lb)
Max wing loading:
A = 75.6 kg/m2 (15.48 lb/sq ft)
U = 86.6 kg/m2 (17.73 lb/sq ft)
N = 105.0 kg/m2 (21.51 lb/sq ft)
Max power loading:
A = 4.64 kg/kW (7.63 lb/hp)
U = 5.31 kg/kW (8.73 lb/hp)
N = 6.45 kg/kW (10.60 lb/hp)
Max Take-Off weight: Never-exceed speed (VNE) 196 kt (363 km/h; 226 mph)
Max level speed at S/L: 145 kt (268 km/h; 166 mph)
Cruising speed at S/L: at 75% power 130 kt (240 km/h; 149 mph)
Stalling speed, power off:
Flaps Up 57 kt (105 km/h; 66 mph)
Flaps Down 52 kt (96 km/h; 60 mph)
Max rate of climb at S/L: 518 m (1,700 ft)/min
Time to 3,050 m (10,000 ft): 10 min
Service ceiling:6,705 m (22,000 ft)
T-O run:183 m (600 ft)
T-O to 15 m (50 ft) 275 m (900 ft)
Landing from 15 m (50 ft)293 m (960 ft)
Landing run: 153 m (500 ft)
Max endurance at 65% power at S/L, 10% reserves 4 h 3 min
Max G Limits: A = +6/-3, U = +5.4/-2.7, N = +4.8/-2.4

[VICTORA1]

Guys,
Pakistan can use these planes for security as well. Here in Los Angeles, there is an lapd airplane in the air for most of the time. With the smog you can hardly see it up there in the sky and with the noise you can't even hear it flying over head.

What this plane does is that it keeps an eye on what is happeing on the ground. With sophisticated day/night cameras and IR this plane can keep track of any miscreants on thew ground that the police cannot chase.

Something like this would be of perfect use in a city like karachi, lahore, islamabad. Pakistan government must look into something like this.

[Valkyrie]

OMG, arabs can't even produce a prop trainer... :eek :D:
Watch it buddy! These sort of comments can lead to flames! ;) Umair

[Oqaab]

OMG, arabs can't even produce a prop trainer... :eek :D:

Arabs might be laughing at us aswell. Because we had always ran to China to get technology in the field of defence (army,navy,airforce).

As far as Saudi Arabia is concerned, we should not forget that It was the first country to consider Pakistan as an independent Muslim state.

[adsH]

OMG, arabs can't even produce a prop trainer... :eek :D:

Makeing a prop AC and a trainer is two different thing. you can make a Prop AC but it hard to make a trainer.

[highsea]

Makeing a prop AC and a trainer is two different thing. you can make a Prop AC but it hard to make a trainer.
These specs look like a comparison of a Cessna 172 vs. a 182. Obviosly the Super Mashak is a more sophisticated AC, but barely. A six-cyl powerplant and a constant speed prop.

I'm curious, adsH, what is it about a trainer is more difficult to make? Dual controls?

-CM~~~trained in a C-172

[mysterious]

mysterious ur specs are of mashak.the onces sold to saudi Arabia are the super mushak..the super mushaq which has a more powerfull engine and other modificatins that make it more effective.
secondly mushak is a basic trainer while the k-8 is an intermediate trainer and u qualify to fly this after u have succeeded in basic flying trining ie flyin the mashak. So mushak and k-8 are totally different aircrafts
An other thing around 11or 12 of these aircraft have already been manufactured at pac kamra and will be delivered immidiately to the saudis

Sorry about that! I was unable to find the Super Mashak stats so I just posted basic Mashak's stats to just give the guys in here an idea. Thnx for giving the specs of the Super Mashak though. Appreciated! And yeah, I do agree that K-8 and Mashaks are different trainers for different purposes. :smokingc:

[fieldmarshal]

mysterious i am glad that u agree cuz 1 is a propeller driven ac while the other is a jet engine ac. the diff is there for every 1 to see. but for more info this is how thing work in the PAF. ie the passage of a pilot from induction to flyin fighters.

basic tariner (Rasalpur) Super Mushak
intermediate trainer ( Rasalpur) t-37 (to be replaced by k-8)
fighter conversion (Mianwali) ft-5 (mig 17)

It happens in that order. :smokingc:

[lalith prasad]

superr mushashak is an indigenised version of saab mfi supporter aircraft (indigenised and upgraded)

[fieldmarshal]

it is a better version with a more powerful engine and some more advaced gismos to giev it flavour if u know wt i mean

[lalith prasad]

i said the same thing.

[umair]

Plus it also has an anti armour capability.The Super Mashak can carry upto 6 wireguided ATGMS,I don't remember the exact type, if anyone here does know the type please post.

[gf0012-aust]

Can someone post a pic of each model?

If the super is capable of mounting 6 ATGM's then I would assume that it's wings would need to be reinforced at the rail points. Unless it's a sturdy design from the outset.

[highsea]

Here's the super, not much outward difference in the two models. Maybe someone else can find a picture with armament. Neat little plane.

Super Mushshak
http://www.pakistaniaviation.com/supermushshak/supermushshak.jpg

-CM

[umair]

You won't find any picture of the super with armament on the net.
All I remember is that the ATGMS are carried by the supers of the Army Aviation corps and that too if need arises.I don't exactly remember what type the ATGMS are, except that they fall in the light to medium ATGM category and are probably of Swedish origin.

[lalith prasad]

such aircraft can be configured for these roles as well as for coin for example the super tucano it can carry 1200 kgs of ordnance including ato g and a to a missiles .it also has a glass cockpit does the sm have a glaa cockpit.

[adsH]

such aircraft can be configured for these roles as well as for coin for example the super tucano it can carry 1200 kgs of ordnance including ato g and a to a missiles .it also has a glass cockpit does the sm have a glaa cockpit.
yeup visibility is key!!, its a copy of a french variant!! Cant rember which one.

[gf0012-aust]

its a copy of a french variant!! Cant rember which one.

Wash your mouth out with soap! ;) There is no French involvement with this. Purely a local design and they deserve full credit for it.

[adsH]

its a copy of a french variant!! Cant rember which one.

Wash your mouth out with soap! ;) There is no French involvement with this. Purely a local design and they deserve full credit for it.

:lol Super Mashak is a license Built version of a French trainer, i am quiet shocked at the attitude (Its not like you)!! I know i'm right lol oh please where do you come from!! we use Toothpaste these days, NOT SOAP!!

[gf0012-aust]

:lol Super Mashak is a license Built version of a French trainer, i am quiet shocked at the attitude (Its not like you)!! I know i'm right lol oh please where do you come from!! we use Toothpaste these days, NOT SOAP!!

I thought you were talking about the Tucano ;)

[adsH]

No problem the fault was all mine i should of been more clear, i think this is a Wake-up call for me, to Lay out some Punctuation's hmm!!

[umair]

Actually adsh it's the Saab MF-17(?), and that also explains the swedish ATGMS it can carry.

[mysterious]

Now that makes more sense! Thnx for sharing that Umair. :smokingc:

[adsH]

Actually adsh it's the Saab MF-17(?), and that also explains the swedish ATGMS it can carry.

yeah i was thinking about that when GF so humbly told me to wash my mouth !!, i think the engine and the Basic design came to Pakistan from the Saab, i am not sure but i think its a very old design it has been revitalized by the help of the french, so i think they call it Super mashak. I am not sure i might be completely wrong.

[fieldmarshal]

to start of the swedes dont make em any more in fact when PAC got the licence to manufacture em in Pakistan the swedes stopped there production. So its been built in Pakistan ever since. NOw the super mushtaq :) ( its nik name & wt its refered in the army n the paf) a wholly indeginious product of PAC with nothin goin to the swedes. so well done PAC.

[lalith prasad]

Swedish atgm. do u meen bill orbantam .does pakistan have those missiles.

[yasin_khan]

thats good for a country like pakistan to export trainers atleast to muslim countries :)

[mysterious]

Additionally, if everything goes as planned; K-8s and Mashaks would also be exported to other third world countries (not just Muslim countries) to provide a cheaper alternative to the more expensive western equipment. :smokingc:

[Salman78]

Can anyone try to find out the price tag on these super mashak's or what the whole deal was worth ?