India needs 3 more aircraft carriers: Navy chief

[Mukesh Patel]

Does it really?

India needs 3 more aircraft carriers: Navy chief

Ezhimala, Apr 07 - The Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Madhavendra Singh, said that India which at present had a lone aircraft carrier needed three more. Laying the foundation stone for a Rs 60 crore officers' married accommodation at the Ezhimala Naval Academy, Singh said the work on building an aircraft carrier at the Cochin shipyard at an estimated cost of Rs 3000 crore was progressing well.
Emphasising the need for an even more powerful naval force, he said Indian Navy required a fleet of submarines and destroyer ships in view of the growing threat perception. Besides, the government was holding negotiations with Russia to purchase a second hand aircraft carrier, he said.

To a question, he said India would continue its interactions with the United States on matters relating to the country's naval requirements.

Asserting that the Indian Navy was fully prepared to protect the country's maritime interests, the Naval Chief said the responsibilities of the naval forces was growing day by day.

"The government is fully conscious of the fact that the responsibilities of the navy is growing day by day and that is why it is sanctioning certain new naval projects," Singh said.

http://www.sunnt.com/news/regional/kerala/kerala.asp?id=7375

[Destroyer]

Wow i don't think they need that many.....3 is enough

[ullu]

Yeah go ahead... waste your money. :D :D :D

[Mukesh Patel]

India is a regional power and for a power to be effective force it needs all the goodies it can get to apply that force! I say we get three more or two more!

[Bharat_R]

BTW we could afford it especially when it costs 600 billion which is cheap for an ACC. That's about 1.8+.7 billion = 2.5 billion for 4 ACC, the .7 billion carrier is the Gorshkov that will be purchased from Russia.

[2much4ya]

sounds silly... what is india going to do with 4 a/cs? use them as shelters for the poor would be a nice idea.

[Bharat_R]

Poor, ha... Pakistan is more poor then India, I wouldn't be talking. If you're Chinese its a different story.

[Destroyer]

It's a little different for both countries. In Pakistan the public is very rich while the goverment isn't up to par. In India the goverment is rich and not so smart with their riches as they continue to spent almost without thinking and not funding diseases prevention programs in India, which can help it improve the living stability of the country.

[Bharat_R]

Here you go again, please we don't have to make up claims. Many Pakistanis live in India, ask them why? Because India's richer then Pakistan. Sure we got a 24% poverty rate, but is Pakistan's rate any better, its actually worse. BTW India spends 2.5% on defence, while Pakistan spends 4-6% of its GDP on defence.

[NARC]

Firstly, Bharat_R, i wouldnt belive everything u hear, especially from an indian government that wants to make the otherside look bad, i.e. we spend less on defence yet we are caperble.....

2.5% IS BULLS***, every1 knows that especially nowadays, after india has made its intentions clear to become a top military power in the region, u dont buy su-30, brahmos missiles and subs not to mention the rest of the stuff u love to buy, and keep a defence budjit so low, im amazed that any1 could belive that. Remember u r also competing against china, aswell as paks.

Secoundly, its all fine n dandy saying we want 3 more ACs, but these must be filled up with naval fighters (more spending), mainatance and repairs (more spending and not exactly indias fine side is it(MIG 21s)...), dont forget india does not really need them, coz paks is rite next door, and an attack would come instantly from both sides on that matter, however if ur getting them to deter the chinise....well think again, coz the chinise got a tomahwk criuse missile copy, and can luanch these from all fronts.

[wewe1]

Firstly, Bharat_R, i wouldnt belive everything u hear, especially from an indian government that wants to make the otherside look bad, i.e. we spend less on defence yet we are caperble.....

couldnt u say the same for pakistan?

[xtech]

Both countries spend too much while their people starve and remain uneducated. If India was just willing to compromise on Kashmir you could see some beautiful things happen between both countries for the benefit of both. The South Asian Connection would be kicking ass once again!

[Nucleas]

Yeah go ahead... waste your money. :D :D :D


What is the need for you guys to waste money on FC-1 and other stuff etc... Feed your poor instead... India is on the way to become economic power and you guys got a long way to go to to be able to stop begging... :smokingc: :smokingc:

[xtech]

India a power? Oh please, they are just as bad as Pakistan. The only reason they are an economic powerhouse is because of the sheer amount of people they have. I'm sure if Pakistani couples made more babies it'd become an economic powerhouse in your terms. 40% of Indian's live below the poverty line.

[NARC]

My friends, i have an indian as a neighbour, i mean literally he is a sikh thou, and he keeps telling me that india is another iraq...lol, when i asked him to explain, he said well they want more and more power and they are doing very little for thier pple.

He says India has enough deterence against pakistan(which i agree too) yet they want more and more, this craving for more will eventually bring them down, is wat he says. I've mentioned the forum to him, and who knows u mite all hear from him your selfs.

I wonder why cant more indians be like him, espicially pple like Advani and those other hardliners.

And no, i dont agree that india is a powerhouse in economy, sure it is miles better then paks, but real economies dont let tyhier pple starve, look at the US or France.

[corsair7772]

If india keeps up this damn arms build up its gonna suffer the same fate as the Shah of Iran

[Winter]

The Royal Navy's 3 Invincible carriers are retiring soon to be replaced with a new class. Perhaps one or two may follow in Hermes' footsteps?

[corsair7772]

Naa there gonna have more space and missiles

[Su_37]

I don;t know what you people talking about .

1) India has 100Billion $ in its reserve. and Pakistan will have max 5 Billion it its reserve and that is due to pumping from USA.

2) India spends 2.5 to 3.0 % of GDP on defence ,

Pakistan 5 - 6 % of GDP on defence
China 12% of its GDP on defence , which expects down and think it spends more.

3) Indian people are more rich then anyother. Indian people have worlds 80% of gold in homes.

Indian economy is growing day by day , indian professionals making susess in IT , and manufactuing and R&D field.


I don;t think pakistan economy is compariable with Indian economy . YOU can't compaire one of the most scuess and one of the failure.

[ullu]

SU-37, don't misquote:

"1) India has 100Billion $ in its reserve. and Pakistan will have max 5 Billion it its reserve and that is due to pumping from USA."

Pakistan has 12+ billion in its reserves.

"Pakistan 5 - 6 % of GDP on defence "

Pakistan spends 3% of GDP on defence!
Damn you indians and your lame tricks to leak misinformation!

India is three times bigger than Pakistan of course with bigger economy, more poor people and more people living below poverty line!

:roll

[Awang se]

Aircraft carriers is an offensive weapons. I want to question the India's motives in this approach. are they a defensive measures or an attempt to become another world bullies. India don't need an aircraft carriers since very few countries in this world is able to launch an offensive against the countries far from their borders. the only potential enemy for the indians is Pakistan, Iran and china. all within convenient range of India home base.

this kind of act could only sparks the arms races that already plague the South Asia and maybe in south east Asia since the carriers will enable India to project their air power here to. I could only view this purchase as an offensive act by India and i strongly suggest that India scrap the plan and spends instead on Destroyers and Cruisers or air defence aircraft.

[Oqaab]

Anyways, an aircraft carriar is a waste of money. But India wants to be a reagional power and thats why it is purchasing carriars.

[Red aRRow]

Nice analysis Awang Se.
I think this massive acquisition of arms by India is unnecessary as these are not defensive weapons and thus i see them as an unjustice to the poor people of India.

[Awang se]

With the currently acquiered SU-30MKI and upcoming Brahmos, India is already has a formidable defences, not to mention the nuke that they already own

[Su_37]

Hey ,,, well my dear friend, indian is poised to become Blue water navy which mean an country can conduct operation far away from its home base.

Foe be a blue water navy india required Aircraft carrier in both fronts.

[Awang se]

What is the motives of this blue water navy? is it enough with China's carriers. We in south east Asia don't want to be caught in the middle of the India-China carrier battle since my country located in the middle of the waterways between east and west and not to mention the US carriers that will tag along.

[The Watcher]

India does not need a blue water navy... only "enemy" india has is Pakistan and that means it doesn't need blue water navy in order to tackle that problem.

Besides, you don't come blue water navy by buying decades old used up A/Cs and ships! Blue water navies are HOME grown!

[gf0012-aust]

People are misunderstanding what a "blue water" navy is.

A blue water navy is a nation that has permanent naval fleets based in the 3 major oceams, plus the mediteranean sea.

The only navy that is blue water by that definition are the americans. They have 7 fleets in constant placement. (and 12 Nuclear Carrier Battle Groups distributed amongst that fleet structure)

A capacity to deploy your navy into an ocean does not make it a blue water navy, it makes them blue water assets - period.

If India is looking at 4 carriers then that means that in normal deployment it will have 3 in service at any one time. The 4th will be out of cycle and laid up for maintenance.

That means at a strategic level India is going to have 1 Carrier Battle Group either side of the Indian mainland, and 1 battle group on a loose leash.

IF India is going to have 3 active carrier battle groups, then it will also need to invest in appropriate escorts, long range maritime patrols (and India is going to buy 12 ex USN Orion P3C's).

It also means that India is going to have to develop an integrated patrol, escort and CV doctrine. That is something that is not learnt overnight and will take a number of years to fine tune. It also means that there will be a few Russians training Indians in the processes.

At the end of the day, it also means that India will need to consider buying hunter killer subs to protect each deployed fleet.

[Awang se]

i think India currently operate an Akula SSN they rent from the Russian. Looks like they going to buy SSNs to in the future. probably as part of the carrier force development package.

[gf0012-aust]

i think India currently operate an Akula SSN they rent from the Russian. Looks like they going to buy SSNs to in the future. probably as part of the carrier force development package.

Its normal for a Carrier Battle Group to have SSK's acting in concert as part of the protective layer.

SSN's would normally be autonomous. Going to a Gorshkov sized carrier will be completely different as far as flight and escort operations go.

The battle group would need to be spread out wider, and as the principle vessel is rather big, that makes her reasonably valuable.

American CV battle groups used to have 2 x SSK's in "tow". I would think that the Indian model would be similar in that respect rather than based on the Russian battle group model

[Awang se]

Make sense, i wonder if India going to buy a cruiser class ship to complete the escort list, or they just satisfied with the destroyers.

[gf0012-aust]

Its a high value asset, India uses Russian guided missile class destoryers which favour the use of heavy firepower. They are more lethal than an old style "cruiser" in absolute fire power terms.

CV battle groups require heavy screening at both the ASW and air defence layer.

That isn't a capability that India has developed fully yet

[jatt2ooo]

:cop :cop mmm this is making me think. if i wanted to be a big player i would...start bombing crapy countries ind africa that are under dictators. why? cause it sometimes shows your power and makes u look good. india can bring an army in but they'll need bombers. It could be part of a plan to play a majour role in peace keeping operations and helping india become a un secerty member. :? :? :? i would want carriers also to help freindly countries or show my military power.!

[ullu]

India's army came and sat on our border with NO courage to attack us... and you are talking about bombing another country thousands of miles away? Lets just say Indian army doesn't have what it takes to go out and bomb another country on another continent. You guys need to worry and deal with Pakistan/china first before dreaming about how you can be like Uncle Sam. :D :finger

:!: Edited. Ah, forget it. He is banned now. But avoid flamming. :)

Oqaab :!:

[Winter]

That scenario is wholly ridiculous, jatt2ooo/ullu...

[Su_37]

Well Well ... this is what india is doing . Its a 2015th year planning india is doing now . by 2015 india will have 3 aircraft carrier operational , two ADS for defence on both front and one big one for petrol , india is also buying large no of marintime plane from America.

Buying Long range TU 22M bomber, plus nuclear sub, and also making efforts of its own nuclear sub., .... Lonf tearm strategy , plan 2015 ....Think big .. blue water

[Winter]

Well Well ... this is what india is doing . Its a 2015th year planning india is doing now . by 2015 india will have 3 aircraft carrier operational , two ADS for defence on both front and one big one for petrol , india is also buying large no of marintime plane from America.

Buying Long range TU 22M bomber, plus nuclear sub, and also making efforts of its own nuclear sub., .... Lonf tearm strategy , plan 2015 ....Think big .. blue water

So whats the purpose then? The need as indentified?...Other than to look particularly sexy and impressive to the neighbours?

;)

[gf0012-aust]

Well Well ... this is what india is doing . Its a 2015th year planning india is doing now . by 2015 india will have 3 aircraft carrier operational , two ADS for defence on both front and one big one for petrol , india is also buying large no of marintime plane from America.

Buying Long range TU 22M bomber, plus nuclear sub, and also making efforts of its own nuclear sub., .... Lonf tearm strategy , plan 2015 ....Think big .. blue water

I can't see India pulling off a Tu-22M deal, they are bloody terrible to get parts for, even the Russians are having probs maintaining their air elements.

India is moving away from Russia for long range interdiction air assets as the Russian kit is getting long in the tooth and they cannot source parts for opflight maintenance.

I would bet that apart from the 12 P3 Orions they are sourcing from the US, they will also move towards refitted commercials for LRMP/EW.

They are already suffering intermittent support probs with the Mainstays.

They may have 3 carriers floating by 2015 but the fleet doctrine issues will be embryonic. Carrier battle groups require a lot of steam time for training and doctrine development. They can't pick that up straight away. They haven't really developed it in the past, so its not an issue of saying "we had 3 carriers before, theres no learning curve".

Fleet management in the 21st century battle theatre is completely different from pre 2000-2001.

[sukhoiman]

India will probably get the gorshkv and also build an indigenous ADS. It wont be a large strain on resources as india is getting gorshkov free and paying only for the refit and the ADS will be a more compact Air defence ship equipped with the naval LCA which is indigenous.

As for poverty, go to the cia world factbook,

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

and go to both india and pak, india's poverty is 25% and pak is 35%.....

then look at their respective spending on military, India's was 2.3% last year and pak's was 4.6%.

Traditionally, spending was 2.5% in india on average whereas pak has spent as high as 8% in the past.....so who is the one that is depriving their poor more...and it shows.....according to a U.N report, Pak's poverty has increased over the last decade from 20% to 35% whereas indias has decreased from 40% to 25%. Indias literacy also increased sharply from 45% to 65% currently whereas paks managed only an incerase from 38% to 46%. Clearly someone needs to improve in their perfromance here. Whereas india is charging ahead and looks set to compete with china on all fronts, pak is left with an economy the size of belgium's.

While agree that there is a lot left to be done in india, india has shown that it is addressing these problems in full swing (the BJP that is, congress are laggards as shown by the economic performance from 1950 to 1990) and look set to get a bright prosperous future. Pak on the other hand has a dimmer future unless the govt can seriously get a grip on its problems and focus more on helping its poeple both poor and middle class rather than moan and groan about kashmir.

[gf0012-aust]

The Gorshkov is a poisoned chalice, it was free based on conditional purchases of an air wing plus the russian EW and Weaps systems.

India doesn't want the russian EW and weaps systems as it prefers some Israeli solutions. This is still a sticking point for the purchase.

The cost of an air wing and the add ons would be as much as the outright purchase price, something that India would have been far better off doing as it would not then have come with caveats

[dabrownguy]

I think since India already hold larger and more advanced weapons than Pakistan their next competition(friendly rivilary) is China. I think India wants to be able to look eye to eye with China in military power because they can't keep on comparing their militray with Pakistan.

[gf0012-aust]

the cost of looking china in the "eye" may be a little expensive, when you invest in a carrier you also need to invest in a carrier protection group, if you use existing assets then you will lose some existing tasking functionality - unless the battle group is staying in the "same location" as the original escort vessels..

add in the cost of an air wing for each battle group and it starts to get a little expensive

[dabrownguy]

India can put the money in. ppp is increasing 500 mill a year i think? or is it 50 mill?

[gf0012-aust]

India can put the money in. ppp is increasing 500 mill a year i think? or is it 50 mill?

and then multiply the capex costs by 3 - as india wants to have 3 carrier groups

actually it will be 2 carrier battle groups, the third carrier is the rotater so no support assets needed

[suleman]

I think since India already hold larger and more advanced weapons than Pakistan their next competition(friendly rivilary) is China. I think India wants to be able to look eye to eye with China in military power because they can't keep on comparing their militray with Pakistan.

Thats the reason why indian forces stood at borders for 10 months and never dared to attack a soo called weak country Pakistan.If Pakistan was weak then India would have attacked without wasteing a single minute.Secondly war or confrontation is never a good thing.Forget these fights and think for the prosporous future of south asia.
One have to talk even after war.So why not talk before the war and live peacefully.Dont take Pakistan's wish for peace as weakness.

[Oqaab]

BTW, The aircraft carrier India is getting from russia will be second hand right ???

[ullu]

The aircraft carrier India is getting from russia will be second hand right ???

Very second hand... old stuff bro.

in da news today:

India, Russia Clear Decks for Sale of Admiral Gorshkov (http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_1097.shtml)
NEW DELHI --- After weeks of hard negotiations, India has cleared the acquisition of the 45,000 ton aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov from Russia.

[gf0012-aust]

The aircraft carrier India is getting from russia will be second hand right ???

Very second hand... old stuff bro.

in da news today:

India, Russia Clear Decks for Sale of Admiral Gorshkov (http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_1097.shtml)
NEW DELHI --- After weeks of hard negotiations, India has cleared the acquisition of the 45,000 ton aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov from Russia.

2 billion is cheap for a carrier of this size, spares, 28x Mig-29K fighters and 6x Kamov 31 anti submarine helicopters.

Its the warfare suite that was the sticking point before, India wanted Israeli EW, C4i systems rather than Russian. The Russians assumed that they would get to put their own systems in. I wonder how this has been resolved?
The less capable your EW/C4i capability, the bigger your platform becomes as a target of opportunity.

[Su_37]

Well , Aircraft carrier is not a sitting duck as suck , becasue it will have distroyers , frigates , subs along with , aircrafts .

about Second hand , it is 1985 build, 2 billion aircrft carrier , well at least India can affort 2 Biilion , to but such an distructive armada while no other counry in Asia think of having such a big distructive force becasue they can't afford it and maintain it.

No Asian county have the capacity to even by 4th hand 1 billion ship ;)

[ullu]

China does and it can. Maybe other asian countries don't need it? Maybe they don't have ambitions to invade/rule over their neighbors? :roll

[gf0012-aust]

Well , Aircraft carrier is not a sitting duck as suck , becasue it will have distroyers , frigates , subs along with , aircrafts .


That exactly my point though, it costs a substantial amount of money to create a carrier battle group, and those assets, if not being built have to come from existing taskings - if thats the case then you do lose some of your capability until their original taskings are picked up by other units,

the carrier battle group has a different role, so there will be minimal overlap - hence there is a cost blow out.

[Su_37]

China does and it can. Maybe other asian countries don't need it? Maybe they don't have ambitions to invade/rule over their neighbors? :roll

I don;t think China has any Aircraft Carrier......If China has someone please tell me its Name.

Having a Aircradt Carrier doin;t means it want to invade neighbour. USa dind;t invade Maxico , columbia etc

[Red aRRow]

Having a Aircradt Carrier doin;t means it want to invade neighbour. USa dind;t invade Maxico , columbia etc

The U.S invaded Vietnam, Panama, Iraq and Afghanistan instead. :D

[gf0012-aust]

China does and it can. Maybe other asian countries don't need it? Maybe they don't have ambitions to invade/rule over their neighbors? :roll

I don;t think China has any Aircraft Carrier......If China has someone please tell me its Name.

Having a Aircradt Carrier doin;t means it want to invade neighbour. USa dind;t invade Maxico , columbia etc

China bought the old HMAS Melbourne from Australia about 15 years ago for "scrap". Apparently it is still intact and has been under examination by naval architects etc for all that time. As a vessel it obviously is not a functioning unit.

[gf0012-aust]

19/01/2004 at 10:26:39

Date line: NEW DELHI
India and Russia are likely to clinch a 1.8-billion dollar contract for the sale and refurbishment of a Soviet-era aircraft carrier during a visit here by Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, officials said Monday.

Ivanov, due in New Delhi late Monday, is scheduled to meet his Indian counterpart Tuesday and then head a Russian delegation in the negotiations over the sale of the 44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov carrier to the Indian navy, which currently has only one such ship, defence ministry officials told AFP.

Ivanov, who returns home Wednesday, will also hold talks on the supply of military spare parts which India desperately needs for its ageing fleet of MiG warplanes and T-75 main battle tanks, they said.

"The contract entails a 700-million-dollar package for the overhaul of the 273-metre (900-foot) Gorshkov and one billion dollars to supply 28 MiG-29K maritime jets and six Kamov-28 and Kamov 31 anti-submarine helicopters," a high-placed official said.

"In fact, the deal will encompass 20 sub-contracts including the planes and armaments for the aircraft carrier which is currently rusting at the Russian port of Severodvinsk for more than 10 years now," the official said.

"The deal is likely to be signed during Ivanov's visit," he added.

The contract, if clinched, would be the largest single defence deal between India and its trusted military supplier Russia since the collapse of the Soviet union in 1991.

The Gorshkov negotiations dragged for three years but were firmed up last year when Moscow accepted New Delhi's pre-conditions and agreed to lease two of its long-range Tupulov-22 nuclear-capable bombers and a nuclear-powered submarine to India.

The two sides are yet to agree on the missiles to be deployed on the aircraft carrier. Russia insists its 'Kashthan' missiles are best suited for Gorshkov but India is wavering between the Israeli 'Barak' and the French 'Aster' defence systems, sources said.

Russia accounts for more than 70 percent of the military hardware used by India, although New Delhi has increasingly been looking to Europe, Israel and the United States for defence equipment.

© 2004 AFP

This is a never ending saga - double link from another source - so sorry no web link. I assume that it will be on AFP's.

[elkaboingo]

Having a Aircradt Carrier doin;t means it want to invade neighbour. USa dind;t invade Maxico , columbia etc

The U.S invaded Vietnam, Panama, Iraq and Afghanistan instead. :D

not to mention all the coup'd'etats all over south america :roll

[shamsi]

The aircraft carrier India is getting from russia will be second hand right ???

Very second hand... old stuff bro.

in da news today:

India, Russia Clear Decks for Sale of Admiral Gorshkov (http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_1097.shtml)
NEW DELHI --- After weeks of hard negotiations, India has cleared the acquisition of the 45,000 ton aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov from Russia.

2 billion is cheap for a carrier of this size, spares, 28x Mig-29K fighters and 6x Kamov 31 anti submarine helicopters.

Its the warfare suite that was the sticking point before, India wanted Israeli EW, C4i systems rather than Russian. The Russians assumed that they would get to put their own systems in. I wonder how this has been resolved?
The less capable your EW/C4i capability, the bigger your platform becomes as a target of opportunity.

Precisely, but this is more of a symbolic purchase. Military spending madness if you ask me. Think of a little kid in a candy store, but what I know of Russians, they will make their money in spares, and support. The European systems India wants to install on this Kiev class ship would most likely be in India, post refit, as currently they are a conflict of Interest.

[gf0012-aust]

shamsi, yes, I think a few more visits from Thales and the Israelis will be happening once its docked

[The Watcher]

Russia is milking the Indian cow real well.

I would assume Israeli c4i system is much better than Russian as its would be based on or closely related to that of USA?

[shamsi]

Russia is milking the Indian cow real well.

I would assume Israeli c4i system is much better than Russian as its would be based on or closely related to that of USA?

As USA as apple pie.

[greatindian]

Dated: 24th Jan04
India signed a $1.5 billion deal with Russia on Tuesday to buy a refurbished aircraft carrier with MiG-29 attack jets, making it the only Asian state with that kind of naval firepower. It underlined New Delhi’s plans to be the dominant power in an oceanic region that includes the Arabian Sea and the vital oil routes to the Far East and China, India’s longtime adversary.
And just to emphasize the importance of the Arabian Sea in New Delhi’s strategic thinking, the expanding Indian Navy held joint maneuvers there with the Americans in October. The Malabar 2003 exercises were the largest such drills ever conducted by the two navies.
With the Americans courting Hindu-majority India in the war against Islamic fundamentalism, the two countries’ navies have been alternating patrols in the pirate-infested Strait of Malacca, a vital shipping lane between Malaysia and Indonesia, to prevent terrorist attacks.
India has also been strengthening its military and intelligence ties to Israel and any day now is expected to sign a $1.1 billion contract for three Phalcon early warning radar aircraft built by state-run Israel Aircraft Industries. Israel is now one of India’s key arms suppliers, second only to Russia. The Phalcons, which are being sold to New Delhi with US approval, will greatly enhance India’s defensive and offensive capabilities.
The links between India and Israel are developing at such a pace that the prospect of a military alliance between the two, similar to Israel’s 1996 agreement with Turkey, the other non-Arab military power in the eastern Mediterranean, looks increasingly likely. That could result in the deployment of Israel’s German-built Dolphin submarines, reportedly armed with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles, in the Arabian Sea/Indian Ocean, greatly extending Israel’s strategic strike capabilities against Iran.
“As Israel has expressed concerns in the face of Pakistani-led nuclear proliferation into its neighborhood and mooted a desire to hide its nuclear arsenal from the prying eyes of the Americans, it is only a question of time before that nation approaches India with a proposal to deploy (nuclear-armed) submarines in the Indian Ocean,� according to analyst Ramtanu Maitra.
Indian domination of the Arabian Sea, with US support and possibly Israeli participation, is likely to result from the planned expansion of India’s naval forces and the wider strategic vision of becoming a major global player that is now New Delhi’s objective.
The acquisition of the Russian aircraft carrier, the Soviet-era Admiral Gorshkov, is a pivotal part of this grand strategic vision, recently enunciated as a 20-year program to make India “a world power with influence spreading across the India Ocean, the Arabian Gulf and the four corners of Asia.� On Nov. 1, 2003, Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee told a Combined Commanders Conference in New Delhi attended by all of India’s top armed forces chiefs that they had to shed their sub-regional mindsets and develop strategies that extend beyond South Asia.
Admiral Madhavendra Singh, India’s naval commander, said on Oct. 14: “Fulfilling India’s dream of having a full-fledged blue-water navy would need at least three aircraft carriers, 20 more frigates, 20 more destroyers with helicopters, and large numbers of missile corvettes and anti-submarine corvettes.�
According to US analysts, India’s naval program entails a budget of $20 billion for the carriers, advanced submarines, long-range maritime patrol aircraft which are essential for killing submarines, and command, control, communication and intelligence systems for state-of-the-art battle management. Indian planners also stress the need for submarine-launched nuclear missile capability. This is primarily to counter a more modest naval buildup by Pakistan’s navy, but the capability to strike at China remains the key strategic objective.
The Indian Navy currently comprises some 140 warships, including 14 submarines, but many are aging and lack sophisticated weapons and electronic warfare systems. Among planned acquisitions are six French Scorpene SSK-class submarines. The 44,570-ton Admiral Gorshkov is currently undergoing an extensive refit that includes extending its flight deck to accommodate advanced strike aircraft. It is scheduled for delivery in 2008, and will replace INS Viraat, a smaller, less powerful aircraft carrier that was formerly the British Navy’s HMS Hermes which saw action in the 1982 Falklands War.
The Indians may arm the 273-meter Gorshkov with Israeli-made Barak air-defense missiles. New Delhi is also mulling the purchase of nuclear-capable Tupolov Tu-22M3 long-range strategic bombers and Akula-class nuclear submarines from Russia. Moscow is prepared to lease India two Tu-22s as maritime patrol aircraft as well as sell cruise missiles in a package worth $3 billion. India wants to build its own aircraft carriers in less than a decade, but analysts believe it will take much longer than that.
Maitra noted that India’s naval ambitions, including carrier battle groups similar to those operated by the Americans, “point to the fact that the Indian Navy is becoming much larger than its immediate defense needs dictate, and clearly suggest that it is in the process of securing the next outer ring of security and positioning itself to play a role in the future to provide security to its areas of economic interest in Asia, and perhaps in Africa.
“Given the crucial importance of the Bay of Bengal for the security of almost half of Asia, and the Arabian Sea for its importance of oil supplies to enhance global prosperity, India’s security concerns will certainly remain pinned on the Indian Ocean as it grows more powerful in the years ahead.�
This strategy involved close military ties with the United States, and these have improved rapidly since Sept. 11, 2001, although they are still at a nascent stage. Although US and Indian expectations regarding the Indian Ocean and Asian security often diverge, they share concerns about China, the emerging titan in the east whose expanding economy is increasingly dependent on oil imports, mostly from the Middle East.
By 2020, the Asia-Pacific region will consume some 38 million barrels of oil a day, with 80 percent of that supplied by Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states through the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean.
Because of this strategic dependence, the Chinese are conducting their own naval expansion that is largely intended to project power into the South China Sea, the Malacca Strait, the Indian Ocean and the Arabian Sea through which the tanker lanes run. Both India and the US believe that the Chinese should be kept bottled up east of the Malacca Strait. Indeed, India sits astride two strategic chokepoints for global oil supplies Â* to the west, the Strait of Hormuz at the southern end of the Gulf; to the east, the Strait of Malacca.
The prospect of major-power confrontation in the region’s sealanes is thus increased. Shortly after China became a net importer of oil in 1993, Zhao Nanqi, director of the Chinese Navy’s general staff logistics department, commented: “We can no longer accept the Indian Ocean as an ocean only of the Indians.�
The Indians and Americans are thus warily watching the construction of a huge port on the Arabian Sea by the Chinese at Gwadar in southern Pakistan near the border with Iran. The port is ostensibly intended as the terminal of a natural gas pipeline running from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan. But Sana Ullah Baloch, a member of Pakistan’s Senate, declared on Jan. 20 that the facility is in fact a naval base designed to give the Chinese Army a foothold at one of the most strategic points in Asia. Pakistan’s navy chief said last year that Beijing was contributing $200 million in grants and loans to assist Pakistan with construction. Baloch maintains the figure is really $3 billion.
The Americans will also be hoping to establish bases in India under the Bush administration’s new blueprint for military expansion and pre-emptive intervention to counter the global terror threat. New Delhi may be uncomfortable with that idea, but US Secretary of State Colin Powell has talked of India’s importance in maintaining security in the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean and the need for US support for New Delhi in that regard.
India can be expected to seek greater defense cooperation with the Gulf states, as well as in Southeast Asia and, increasingly, Central Asia and its hydrocarbon wealth and emerging markets. Such military expansion runs parallel to US strategic planning for these regions, including the war against Islamic extremists.
In this regard,Vajpayee inaugurated India’s first permanent foreign military base in Tajikistan on Nov. 13. The air base at Ayni, 10 kilometers northeast of the capital Dushanbe, is equipped to handle combat aircraft and large transports. Other bases in the region are planned as India’s strategic perceptions expand, including the need to protect energy supplies. India, with few energy resources of its own, plans to pipe natural gas from Central Asia. “Our own energy interests have to be looked after by ourselves,� said Defense Ministry spokesman Amitabh Chakraborty. And, for the time being at least, that means the Arabian Sea.

Ed Blanche, a member of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, has covered Middle Eastern affairs for three decades. He is a regular contributor to THE DAILY STAR

here is the link

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/opinion/24_01_04_c.asp

[Roger Smith]

Indian Navy is coming of age to be blue water mature naval power in the world, specially protecting the Indian Ocean trade lanes and the energy lanes of oil covering South east Asia, Australia, Africa and the Middle East.

[gf0012-aust]

A Blue Water navy by the correct definition is one that has a permanent fleet presence on the 7 major Oceans and Seas of the World. India by definition does not have that.

India does have an emerging and evolving capable navy, but she does not have a Blue Water Navy using the generally accepted definition. Even Russia now fails that definition.

The interesting question is how you see that India is able to project its foreign policy through its navy.

[Roger Smith]

A Blue Water navy by the correct definition is one that has a permanent fleet presence on the 7 major Oceans and Seas of the World. India by definition does not have that.

India does have an emerging and evolving capable navy, but she does not have a Blue Water Navy using the generally accepted definition. Even Russia now fails that definition.

The interesting question is how you see that India is able to project its foreign policy through its navy.

I agree with you blue water navy definition is covering the seven oceans, there is only one power that is the US Navy.

India is a mature country with 55 years of a democratic elected government to its credit. The Indian navy will protect the bulk of energy and oil from Middle East and the trade lanes from east to west and vice versa in the Indian ocean.

[gf0012-aust]

Indian Navy is coming of age to be blue water mature naval power in the world, specially protecting the Indian Ocean trade lanes and the energy lanes of oil covering South east Asia, Australia, Africa and the Middle East.

The curiosity in my question is that when you write the following:
India is a mature country with 55 years of a democratic elected government to its credit. The Indian navy will protect the bulk of energy and oil from Middle East and the trade lanes from east to west and vice versa in the Indian ocean.

It has a bit of a disconnect with your initial comment. perhaps you should be careful in your wording? After all, where does India get its oil stocks from? It's is rapidly developing a self sufficient energy generation capacity moving away from fossil fuels (such as the use of wind through Suzlon, Lagerwei, GE and Vestas). So its energy markets are being redefined.

[darklegent]

May be the term Blue water navy used by the Inidan mean that it has a fleet that can move deeper into the oceans, or can be deployed in any ocean if required to. I guess that the term Brown water navy would then imply to a costal navy.

[gf0012-aust]

May be the term Blue water navy used by the Inidan mean that it has a fleet that can move deeper into the oceans, or can be deployed in any ocean if required to. I guess that the term Brown water navy would then imply to a costal navy.

A brown water navy is typically a riverine navy. So if China used gunboats or missile platforms on the Yangtze, then they would constitute a brown water navy..

The original concept of what a blue water navy has been basically destroyed since the demise of the english, french and russian navies into regional navies.