China assures Pakistan of better Navy support

[mysterious]

China assures Pakistan of better Navy support

BEIJING: Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Shahid Karimullah met Chinese Defence Minister General Cao Guangchuan on Tuesday and discussed defence cooperation between the two countries.

Sources called the meeting very productive and said the two sides agreed to reinforce bilateral cooperation between the two navies.

During the meeting, Admiral Karimullah discussed with the Chinese minister matters relating to the purchase of four frigates from China. The Chinese officials agreed to meet the defence needs of the Pakistan Navy. Sources said it was hoped the deal to buy the four warships would be finalised soon.

General Cao, who is also the vice-chairman of the Chinese Central Military Commission, assured Admiral Karimullah that China would continue to improve defence ties with Pakistan. Admiral Karimullah also met Chinese Navy’s Vice Admiral Zhang Dingfa.

They expressed satisfaction over the cooperation between the two navies and decided to consolidate that.

They decided that the two navies would continue cooperation in various fields including training to strengthen their defence capability.

General Cao said in an interview that China’s friendship with Pakistan had been growing since the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries. APP

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_19-5-2004_pg7_22

Interesting! :smokingc:

[lamdacore]

This is a good development but would it really be suitable for pakistan to follow into the footsteps of the chinese navy? because i am not sure whether if the chinese navy has competing ships and competent enough to stand to a very good professional army? I need info on this but i am still happy to know that pakistan and china are maintaining their good relationship.

[gf0012-aust]

I'm curious as to how China is going to build Pakistan 4 vessels, She cannot maintain her own shipbuilding regime at present. China has been buying half or hull complete units from the Russians to keep up with the demand of her own needs.

At current levels, that indicates at least a 4 year window before they could even consider building or starting to build anything else for allies or partners.

[adsH]

I'm curious as to how China is going to build Pakistan 4 vessels, She cannot maintain her own shipbuilding regime at present. China has been buying half or hull complete units from the Russians to keep up with the demand of her own needs.

At current levels, that indicates at least a 4 year window before they could even consider building or starting to build anything else for allies or partners.

GF i tihink i heard this from some where but I THINK THE Chinese navy has couple of of Hulls lying at the the Dry D. thats one ship sorted the rest of them will be built at karachi, Pakistan port with help from chinese contracted engineers!!

[mysterious]

Yup! I've read it as well. One ship will be built in China while the rest three in Pakistan. :smokingc:

[Pathfinder-X]

I'm curious as to how China is going to build Pakistan 4 vessels, She cannot maintain her own shipbuilding regime at present. China has been buying half or hull complete units from the Russians to keep up with the demand of her own needs.

At current levels, that indicates at least a 4 year window before they could even consider building or starting to build anything else for allies or partners.

i agree wif u. china's shipbuilding program cannot support the rate its navy is growing so they choosed to buy DDGs from russian. the election in taiwan has brought a lot of tension in that region, and PLAN is not feeling very confident against the navy of ROC(also the possible interference of U.S or Japan) so it needs to pump up its strength quickly, those almost completed hulls in russia seems lk the logical chose to strengthen the navy quickly

it's sad story reali, some power struggle between commies and KMT from almost 60 years ago turn into the hostility of two sides. logically speaking, the KMT is still the government of china(u can see from the official website, it claims to have 960 million km2 of land), but reality is that communist taken over almost 60 years ago and wants to unite the country. if a conflict ever breaks out it can be counted as civil wars

[gf0012-aust]

The estimates are that the PLAN will have a qualitative parity with Taiwans Navy by 2005-2006 at current rates.

At current force levels, China would be unable to successfully manage an invasion of Taiwan as the latter has much smaller forces, but qualitatively they are deemed far better.

A Normandy style op by mainland China on Taiwan would be a disaster at the moment.

The only successful airlift they (PRC) have had was against Tibet, and that was a totally benign theatre. Taiwans IADS would decimate an incoming airborne assault. It's navy is more than able to stop Chinas forces. It's ASW capability almost renders Chinas current submarine fleet to the point of inactivity.

I'd bet that 2006 is the year that they become more belligerent.

[Pathfinder-X]

The estimates are that the PLAN will have a qualitative parity with Taiwans Navy by 2005-2006 at current rates.

At current force levels, China would be unable to successfully manage an invasion of Taiwan as the latter has much smaller forces, but qualitatively they are deemed far better.

A Normandy style op by mainland China on Taiwan would be a disaster at the moment.

The only successful airlift they (PRC) have had was against Tibet, and that was a totally benign theatre. Taiwans IADS would decimate an incoming airborne assault. It's navy is more than able to stop Chinas forces. It's ASW capability almost renders Chinas current submarine fleet to the point of inactivity.

I'd bet that 2006 is the year that they become more belligerent.

u forgot to take one thing into account, taiwan's defence systems were mostly bought from U.S. it'll be hard to replace when destoryed or damaged
another thing u should know about chinese, we don't attack our foes unless we r lot stronger than they r, and we will try to finish them off once and for all. that is the way our history of warfare goes, to destroy or cripple ur foes, never letting him to be a threat to u again. base on the way chinese wage wars, i don't think china will try to re-unite taiwan within ten years

[adsH]

i doubt china wants to destroy taiwan!! they want it reunited like HK!! why would they think of destroying all that progress made byt the Taiwanese. The US can shipp excess Defense articles at any sign of trouble so that sorts out there destroyed defense Articles matter and the US will not sit idly by while china engulfs taiwan!! :), you would expect some sort of Action from the US.

[Pathfinder-X]

i doubt china wants to destroy taiwan!! they want it reunited like HK!! why would they think of destroying all that progress made byt the Taiwanese. The US can shipp excess Defense articles at any sign of trouble so that sorts out there destroyed defense Articles matter and the US will not sit idly by while china engulfs taiwan!! :), you would expect some sort of Action from the US.

do u reali think U.S will try to wage war over china for taiwan?? the reason U.S is helping taiwan is to control china, but when china decides it needs to unite the country it's not in U.S's interest to get involved in such a war. this war will happen sooner or later, however, later would be better for china.

[adsH]

i doubt china wants to destroy taiwan!! they want it reunited like HK!! why would they think of destroying all that progress made byt the Taiwanese. The US can shipp excess Defense articles at any sign of trouble so that sorts out there destroyed defense Articles matter and the US will not sit idly by while china engulfs taiwan!! :), you would expect some sort of Action from the US.

do u reali think U.S will try to wage war over china for taiwan?? the reason U.S is helping taiwan is to control china, but when china decides it needs to unite the country it's not in U.S's interest to get involved in such a war. this war will happen sooner or later, however, later would be better for china.

Yeah true mate but Teh US Will Threaten China with its Nukes not its soldiers. it will Blockade Sanction the Country And every nation will follow Suet China still does not Command international Obedience like the US, then the US will sit back and Watch China Collapse Bit by bit like it did with The Soviets!! its a tested tried and proven method. china won't be able to use its missiles in the Furue all this fiasco about Missile defense system being installed is not intended for North K its got to be for China!!! think about it, as the Taiwanese come close to Declaring sovereignty and chinese coming close to invading Taiwan the US feals a sudden urge to develop its Missile defense system at a tenfold speed. they are doing feild trials in the Japanese waters

[mysterious]

A rather exaggerated post adsh. China is fast emerging as the biggest player in international politics and relations! You really think that in China's case the world would wag its tail for US and not give a thought to China?? Do you know that EU is every day falling deeper in love with China because of its gigantic demand for consumer and capital goods? Sure, its gona be a hard decision for the world as to whom to side with but I doubt it'll be a unanimous siding with the US. And I dont think the US is going to threaten China with its nuclear weapons! Heck, China has its own well established nuclear weapons with ICBMs having enough range to strike anywhere in the US!! That is why we see double standards in US policy all the time regarding Taiwan. Each day we see Powell and others promoting the 'one China' policy but on the other hand selling more and more weapons to Taiwan to strengthen it against China. For me, its all about waiting for the time when Taiwan is politically isolated by the pressure China is exerting on countries that have relations with Taiwan or side with it. Eventually Taiwan will have to give up. Its just too small to withstand Chinese political and strategic pressure in the long-term. :smokingc:

[adsH]

Myst All i am going to say, Never Under Estimate the Will and determination of smaller Nation!! :D i think there can be Lines drawn from the that Scenarios to many other nations around the World Russian is Haveing aHeck of a time in Chechniya. I know china will never endup being successful in completing the take over, Do you honestly think the World Community Led and backed by the US will not say a word if a Small Nation :roll DEMOCRATIC NAtion who is Fighting for its freedome day in day out gets engulfed by a nation like 100 timesit size.lol the lesst i would expect is Santions, EU will follow suite becasue they have alot more economical military and Cultureal ties with the biggest Economy and Military in the world THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA . :usa lol Myst i Just wanted to Emphasize this point Come onn mate were talking about The US!! THE US!! i have nothing against China BUt i can't see them (China) takeing over a poor Tiny nation and no one would say a word!!! Economical sanction is biggest tool at there diposal china has loans (trade defictis i believe) out to the US, Myst could you tell me who would be the bigest looser here :D
the Idea of Missile defense is to eliminate the Deterrent (thinking), that a country has, to tell them that your weapons are useless against us!! Lets be Serious Nuke are never going to be used!! Hope so

:D

[mysterious]

Firstly, as far as China-US trading deficit/surplus goes, China has a 'huge' and ever rising surplus where as the US is increasingly facing a trade balance deficit in its trade with China! Secondly, I never said that China will take over Taiwan tommorow morning! :D I even said, its all about waiting and seeing; and we can already see China slowly but surely isolating Taiwan politically. Sure the US has not allowed China to take out Taiwan (and wont do so anytime in the near future) but at the same time, US re-iterations about the "one China" policy are growing and becoming more 'n' more frequent. You see, 'no one' wants to risk losing a 1.2 billion consumer market! :smokingc:

[Pathfinder-X]

Myst All i am going to say, Never Under Estimate the Will and determination of smaller Nation!! :D i think there can be Lines drawn from the that Scenarios to many other nations around the World Russian is Haveing aHeck of a time in Chechniya. I know china will never endup being successful in completing the take over, Do you honestly think the World Community Led and backed by the US will not say a word if a Small Nation :roll DEMOCRATIC NAtion who is Fighting for its freedome day in day out gets engulfed by a nation like 100 timesit size.lol the lesst i would expect is Santions, EU will follow suite becasue they have alot more economical military and Cultureal ties with the biggest Economy and Military in the world THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA . :usa lol Myst i Just wanted to Emphasize this point Come onn mate were talking about The US!! THE US!! i have nothing against China BUt i can't see them (China) takeing over a poor Tiny nation and no one would say a word!!! Economical sanction is biggest tool at there diposal china has loans (trade defictis i believe) out to the US, Myst could you tell me who would be the bigest looser here :D
the Idea of Missile defense is to eliminate the Deterrent (thinking), that a country has, to tell them that your weapons are useless against us!! Lets be Serious Nuke are never going to be used!! Hope so

:D

first of all taiwan is not a nation, it's part of china. the KMT and communist power struggle led to a civil war that divided the two sides. KMT was forced to retreat to taiwan, and communist held on the mainland china. originally the KMT had a plans to take back mainland "one year prepare, 2 year attack, 4 years clean up, 5 years unite", the plan never became a reality and a cease fire was never declared, so technically communist and KMT is still at war. and technically KMT should still be the official government of china. but the reality is that during recent years a new trend of seperatism is growing inside taiwan, claiming it has nothing to do wif china and that taiwan was never china's. this idea is especially popular amoung young born ppl in taiwan. communist planned to talk wif taiwan to peacefully gain the island back in the 1980's, which created the "1 nation 2 policies" plan. but from the way it looks now, the only solution is a invasion. the chinese youth born in mainland china see it's their responsiblity to unite china, and also a small portion of youth in taiwan also support unification. i have no doubt that they will unite in the next two decades, it's the will of 1.3 billion ppl.

[adsH]

Hey Myst, i did mean that the US has a deficit and china has a surpluss the US deficit was funded by chinese, well a better part, so china would loose on ever going to war with the US thats all i meant!! :D well in the Short Run!!

[joker]

Does anybody have any pics of the Victory class FAC of the Singaporean navy?? Currently two vessels are being built at KSEW (Karachi) with Singaporean and German assistance for the PN.

[Red aRRow]

Does anybody have any pics of the Victory class FAC of the Singaporean navy?? Currently two vessels are being built at KSEW (Karachi) with Singaporean and German assistance for the PN.

What the.....I didn't know this. Can you fill me up on the latest please joker??

[mysterious]

I have no idea about this either. When did this happen? Any proof or pics to prove? :roll

[Red aRRow]

Here is a picture of the hull of the F-22P FFG which is being built for Pakistan Navy in Shanghai.
The hull is the one to the right side of the picture, so don't start looking at the complete PLAN FFG which is to the left in the picture!!! :D



http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/albums/userpics/Type-054-DefenceTalk.com01.jpg

[mysterious]

I'm asking about the pic of the Victory Class FAC which Joker said is being built in KSEW with Singaporean and German assistance. :smokingc:

[P.A.F]

anyway once china gets itself in Gwadar (pakistani waters) then the co-operation will start. and thats somin USA and India don't want.

[mysterious]

And thats something imminent and inevitable. :smokingc:

PS: China is slowly but surely encircling India from all sides by deploying its naval forces all around and at the same time, warming up its relations considerably with all the smaller countries scattered around India.

[srirangan]

Yupp, China is surely trying to do that. They've been trying to woo Bangladesh, Burma and ofcourse they already got a stooge in Pakistan. But the problem really is that India has got the following on her side in any conflict against China:
- Russia
- USA

Plus India has increased its influence in the Central Asian region and already got herself a military base in that region. If I was a neutral spectator, this India-China cold feud would be like a top grade strategic fiction novel :)

[mysterious]

I dont think for a minute that the US would intervene in anyother way other than diplomatically in a crisis situation between China and India. Russia cant do anything as the US will keep it at bay. Pakistan 'may' try and take advantage from such a scenario by taking out J & K. Thats about it. :cop

[srirangan]

No I disagree. US has been increasingly propping up India against China. Plus the US has been allowed to train in regions such as Ladakh and North East, these look very China specific.

US will also not stop Russia from aggression against China. They'll be vary of Russian's expanding influence but then India and Russia have a very close knit defence pact which forces both countries to defend each other.

And Pakistan and Taiwan will take advantage, no doubt about that :)

[mysterious]

Pakistan and China also had an intimate defense agreement to come to each other's aid in an armed conflict but in 1965, tremendous US pressure kept China out of the war. So I have my money on US pressure on Russia to not to get involved as I see Russia today, as weak as China was back in 1965 (unable to do anything against 'tremendous' US pressure). Boosting up India's defense closet to coutner China is an 'indirect' way for the US to deal with China's growing influence in the region. I dont think US has any plans for a 'direct' confrontation. The two are very different things with a lot of complexities.

[srirangan]

Well I personally believe that there won't ever be a conflict of this nature India+ versus China+ Such a conflict means (1) stalemate (2) huge losses to both countries (3) Indo-China once again fall far behind the western countries

It's bad for both countries. So no war, but if there is trust India in getting the powerful allies on its side.

[WebMaster]

Yupp, China is surely trying to do that. They've been trying to woo Bangladesh, Burma and ofcourse they already got a stooge in Pakistan. But the problem really is that India has got the following on her side in any conflict against China:
- Russia
- USA

Plus India has increased its influence in the Central Asian region and already got herself a military base in that region. If I was a neutral spectator, this India-China cold feud would be like a top grade strategic fiction novel :)

BOLD PART: That type of language and disrespect leads to similar comments about Indian high official... I don't think you would like it. :) So, watch it next time. Two way street, give some respect to get some. Good luck. Enjoy!!!

[DO NOT COMMENT ON THIS REPLY, carry on with the discussion]

[srirangan]

I acknowledge and apologise. Rephrase "stooge" with "ally". Ending off-topic.

[lalith prasad]

i think us will assist india because if china wins us will have no counter to china in asia .us considers china its biggest threat .india also has an alloy in vietnam which has a dispute with china over some islands and is therefore wary about them india already has plans for a naval base there .india is also trying to pull away myanmar from china's influence .myanmars middle level army officers are dissatisfied about the chinese influence in their country .india has sold artillery peices to myanmar and the bangladeshi army chief visited india recently to discuss arms purchases.india also offered to develop the akyab port for the chinese .there were reports of a indo-iranian joint defence cooperation and also an indo-tajik defence cooperation.india is also training afghan armed forces .afghanis havent yet forgiven pakistan for their support to the taliban .pakistan got realy worried and approched us to try and limit india's influence in afghanistan however this effort failed .recently india set up aconsulate in an afghani town on the pak afghan border which is proving a big headache for pakistan.musharraf himself raised this issue with the us.india was also instrumental in removing the taliban(pakistan influence)from afghan politics.they trained and provided all facilities for the nothern alliance.india iran russia and us were instrumental in the rebuilding and reorganisation of the nothern alliance.india provided them millitary advisors and also set up a millitary hospital at farkhor which is still operational.india also recently acquired the use of ayni airforce base tajiki8stan or uzbekistan it is a major base from where india can launch strikes on pakistan ( indian sukhois have in flight refuelling capabilities0but is out of range of the current paf jets.india still has a lot of work to do with respect to china.there are reports that india will offer its newly constructed karwar base for operations by usa india has already offered chennai to us for refuelling and reequipping .chinese got realy pissed of when india showed blackwell a tour of arunachal pradesh and carried out joint millitary excercises with them in the northeast .

[lalith prasad]

india also has proposal to build a canal in south india to link arabian sea and bay of bengal.this proposal will be equal to the suez in importance it is called as the sethu samudram project and the setting up of the colachel port this will facilitate easy movement of the indian navy fleets from west to east coast and vice versa.usa's will support india because if india loses a war with china .then definitely chines infuence in indian ocean region increase which usa doesnt want.so u see india is not keeping quiet india has already played a part in neutralising pakistans strategic depth in afghanisthan

[srirangan]

Yes the canal connecting the Arabian sea to the Bay of Bengal will be a great accomplishment due to its significance.

[adsH]

india also has proposal to build a canal in south india to link arabian sea and bay of bengal.this proposal will be equal to the suez in importance it is called as the sethu samudram project and the setting up of the colachel port this will facilitate easy movement of the indian navy fleets from west to east coast and vice versa.usa's will support india because if india loses a war with china .then definitely chines infuence in indian ocean region increase which usa doesnt want.so u see india is not keeping quiet india has already played a part in neutralising pakistans strategic depth in afghanisthan


again full of your self!! how are you going to construct that canal do you have any idea how much such a massive cannal would cost do u know what depth would be required to facilitate Aircraft carriers to flow through do you know how long it has to be to cross the lower bit of INdia. and you can't maintain afleet in the Arabia Sea PAK navy would take care of your Aircraft carriers, as they come out of your Fantasy cannal. It's idiotic proposal!! Ships would be sitting targets to attack as they come out of the indian cannal. lol your going to comeout into the strong hold OF pakNavy

[gf0012-aust]

again full of your self!! how are you going to construct that canal do you have any idea how much such a massive cannal would cost do u know what depth would be required to facilitate Aircraft carriers to flow through do you know how long it has to be to cross the lower bit of INdia. and you can't maintain afleet in the Arabia Sea PAK navy would take care of your Aircraft carriers, as they come out of your Fantasy cannal. It's idiotic proposal!! Ships would be sitting targets to attack as they come out of the indian cannal. lol your going to comeout into the strong hold OF pakNavy

Actually, both China and India are talking about this. They want to bypass the South China Sea and the extra on costs of going through Singapore.

It's not a pipe dream. ;) There are also strategic and commercial benefits to be accrued if its made.

Needless to say, Singapore is not very happy and would prefer to see it fail.

[Revival_786]

Isn't there a tunnel of sorts beneath Saudi Arabia? Only accessible via subs? I thought I saw that on TV :)

[srirangan]

>> Needless to say, Singapore is not very happy and would prefer to see it fail.

LOL, but true, well said!

[liunux]

peaceful growing up,犯强汉者虽远毕诛

[adsH]

again full of your self!! how are you going to construct that canal do you have any idea how much such a massive cannal would cost do u know what depth would be required to facilitate Aircraft carriers to flow through do you know how long it has to be to cross the lower bit of INdia. and you can't maintain afleet in the Arabia Sea PAK navy would take care of your Aircraft carriers, as they come out of your Fantasy cannal. It's idiotic proposal!! Ships would be sitting targets to attack as they come out of the indian cannal. lol your going to comeout into the strong hold OF pakNavy

Actually, both China and India are talking about this. They want to bypass the South China Sea and the extra on costs of going through Singapore.

It's not a pipe dream. ;) There are also strategic and commercial benefits to be accrued if its made.

Needless to say, Singapore is not very happy and would prefer to see it fail.

If this were ever Accomplished i mean if india were ever able to accomplish this in my life time and i have pritty much time to live (i hope ) i promise i would eat my Hat........, this is not the about the Chinese and whatever they want to build but this is about the INdian cannal. The Worlds leading architects are haveing problems building a a relatively small bridge connecting the african continent with the european continent at Moroco and spain. could you shed some light as if how they (the Indian) plaan to accomplish such a massive task of creating a massive cannal, there should be no comparison between the suez canal, its a different type and size of a canal used by the big powers of the world.



i think us will assist india because if china wins us will have no counter to china in asia .us considers china its biggest threat .india also has an alloy in vietnam which has a dispute with china over some islands and is therefore wary about them india already has plans for a naval base there .india is also trying to pull away myanmar from china's influence .myanmars middle level army officers are dissatisfied about the chinese influence in their country .india has sold artillery peices to myanmar and the bangladeshi army chief visited india recently to discuss arms purchases.india also offered to develop the akyab port for the chinese .there were reports of a indo-iranian joint defence cooperation and also an indo-tajik defence cooperation.india is also training afghan armed forces .afghanis havent yet forgiven pakistan for their support to the taliban .pakistan got realy worried and approched us to try and limit india's influence in afghanistan however this effort failed .recently india set up aconsulate in an afghani town on the pak afghan border which is proving a big headache for pakistan.musharraf himself raised this issue with the us.india was also instrumental in removing the taliban(pakistan influence)from afghan politics.they trained and provided all facilities for the nothern alliance.india iran russia and us were instrumental in the rebuilding and reorganisation of the nothern alliance.india provided them millitary advisors and also set up a millitary hospital at farkhor which is still operational.india also recently acquired the use of ayni airforce base tajiki8stan or uzbekistan it is a major base from where india can launch strikes on pakistan ( indian sukhois have in flight refuelling capabilities0but is out of range of the current paf jets.india still has a lot of work to do with respect to china.there are reports that india will offer its newly constructed karwar base for operations by usa india has already offered chennai to us for refuelling and reequipping .chinese got realy pissed of when india showed blackwell a tour of arunachal pradesh and carried out joint millitary


I can just read out the love in your post!!!, well first of all do a fact and reality check , lets say you have magically defeated the china and you have become the Ultimate superpower of you region would the US sit back and see a massive evil super power like india engulf (its right fully owed land = small countries that broke off it) there is a twist to it Pakistan is the counter to INdia, so wet dreams stay wet-dreams. now to get to the point Afghanis Pakhtunes are 80 percent of the Populations of Afghan and they are the friends of the Pakistan and the training camp you were so proudly talking about as your consulate is a terrorist camp that recruits local low lives to carry out attacks against american and Pakistani and other allied nations. so whose the Terrorist here !!! tujakistan and Turkmanistan would never allow your jets to fly off and attack Pakistan from that vector Pakistanis and Turkmanis are practically brethren pakistanis exsist becasue of them, they were the Central russian conquerers that invaded india !!! so all your Lovely stories have counter stories here, don't make your sheer hatert for Pakistan public here lalith!!!![/quote]

Admin: Calm down!

[Proteus]

If China are in war with India,US well mostlikely help India,but not likely military(sell arms most military thing they well do to help India). Russia won´t Attack China,because they well just wait and help the winner(also mostlikely just sell arms). Money is what Russia(for the moment)are interest. All the small countery around China and India well also with for the winner. But I can´s see this war happen,the only reason why China well go to war with India is when and if Pakistan face a very very bad lose(befor that most likely China well support Pakistan with arms and politics support).

Adsh
Taiwan is part of china,not a coutry. ROC and PRC is one country in a civilwar(now a cold war). Nobody like to see a war,but if that is what they want then they should have it. I believe US well come to taiwan´s aid,but I am very very doubtful that US will attack China directly(economy attack is more likely),is well just start a nuke war,which is the last things what everybody like to see. EU and russia in this case well stay neutral,Russia well sell arms to China(if china has the money then they well sell,Russia do not fear US).
Taking taiwan is not a easy job,which well cost a LOT of lifes. As a chinese I hope there well be a peaceful unification,for the moment that hope is very very small. :(

Back to the topic. Does anyone know what kind of weapon well this FFG have? Is it a FFG base on PLAN FFG,or is it a new type?

[Proteus]

I acknowledge and apologise. Rephrase "stooge" with "ally". Ending off-topic.

A3. That is what we are calling India. We do even consider India a threat,but India allways consider China as enemy(I just do not see why it has to be like that). Sometime ago I saw a Finn made document about India Nuke and missile project. It was nice,when at end of the film a lot of people in some kind the gathering shout "we well NUKE Pakistan",and then film end with what Gandhi way about peace. I can see why US consider us a threat to their "world",and I also know and understund why Russia also see us a possible enemy,but I do not understand WHY in the world India see us as enemy. Because we are friend with pakistan? Somebody please enlight me :?

[srirangan]

Proteus,

India and Russia have a defence deal, in which both are obliged to defend the other. And you obviously have no clue what the US and India are cooking, US especially has set its goals to pump up India against China.

And you ae just repeating your CHinese propaganda. By all neutral meausres Taiwan is as good as an independent country, with its own military, exective, legislature and judiciary.

[Revival_786]

Some American said once:

"We don't want to rule the world. But, we don't want anyone else to rule it either".

I think it applies well to the China situation :)

ie. China becomes so powerful that it puts the US in the back seat... and since India has a very large pop too and near China, its the perfect "battleground"... :)

[mysterious]

People overlook the fact that 'cuz of recent US warming up to India, Indo-Russian relations are experiencing the 'cracks' in their relationship slowly but surely.

[srirangan]

I'm sorry no cracks. Regarding what issue would Russia be mad at India at? Plus leaving all business out, they still have inked a defense pact. This is a very stable commitment, it's of the type USA have made to UK.

In an India V China war, the war will be fought in the air and the sea. The battle's shall never enter mainland India or China.

[adsH]

I'm sorry no cracks. Regarding what issue would Russia be mad at India at? Plus leaving all business out, they still have inked a defense pact. This is a very stable commitment, it's of the type USA have made to UK.

In an India V China war, the war will be fought in the air and the sea. The battle's shall never enter mainland India or China.

Siriiagreewith u completly,andi do balieve indo-russia relation is solid as relations can get. but i think Myst might be referingto the Mi17 chopersandthe RD93 kielmov power plant for the JF-17,these are all russian equipments being filtered through to PAK, but its kind off naive to compare the India Russian business based pact to the UK-US alliance, other then the fact that the UK US are brethren, there is the NATO alliance, and the fact that when ever us-Goes to war-there is one country that always sticks with them and it is The UK.

[gf0012-aust]

and the fact that when ever us-Goes to war-there is one country that always sticks with them and it is The UK

the UK didn't follow the US into the Suez Crisis, IIRC the UK and France were mightily irritated at the US for not stepping in.

the UK didn't follow the US into Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam

Similarly, there have been about 12 "events" in the last 40 years where the UK was fighting a bullet shooting war and the US was not present.

[srirangan]

adsH,

Sales of choppers is business. Russia doesn't like it when we buy US stuff or we train with the US. So who are we to stop Russians from selling stuff to Pak/China?

The closeness in relations is when Indo-Russians research, develop and plan together. We can leave business aside, both our countries can't rely entirely on each other so while we expand relations/business elsewhere, we can be rest assured that in times of need the defence pact/deal will come good.

[lalith prasad]

india doesnt trust china after what happened in the 60's .they said hindi-chini bhai-bhai and then attacked .till then the relations were peaceful.
it is only after that the relations soured.however efforts are being made by both to improve the relation lets hope and pray it works.personally i would love to visit china ,heard it is a very beautiful place.but i dont trust the chinese.

[Proteus]

india doesnt trust china after what happened in the 60's .they said hindi-chini bhai-bhai and then attacked .till then the relations were peaceful.
it is only after that the relations soured.however efforts are being made by both to improve the relation lets hope and pray it works.personally i would love to visit china ,heard it is a very beautiful place.but i dont trust the chinese.

-Ok,I admit that I do not know that part of history very well(most from chinese history books,so it´s very "one side"story). So can you tell me why we attacked(if we start it)? I can´t see the reason why we attack india back then (60´s).

Srirangan.
India and russia do has the defence deal,also Frace and England has same deal with Poland back 30´s. They are obliged to help you when you need them,but I think they won´t attack china so blindly,as i see it they well do as what we well do India attack Pakistan. Arms sells and politic support well come first,and after that if India is loosing very badly THEN they well attack.
Ofcourse India well not lose that badly,so all what russia well need is offer arms to India. India vs China has only one winner,that well be US. 2 bird with one stone :(

Please,I hate when people say that I am "repeating chinese propaganda". 12years outside China,I when to Finnise school,so I do not think the our " propaganda machine" has got me "yet". ;)

"By all neutral",there is no neutral in taking sides. You have already taking the side,after saying taiwan is a country,so you are repeating your sides propaganda? Propaganda or not,I am a chinese so I do not need propaganda to say that taiwan was and is a part of china. Why India not give up Kashmier,the territory which India and Pakistan are fighting for,sorry I don´t know did I got the name right. So when you say Kashmier is yours and Pakistan say is theirs,are not repeating Indias propaganda? Oh,but do not take this as offence,it´s not that. :D:

[adsH]

india doesnt trust china after what happened in the 60's .they said hindi-chini bhai-bhai and then attacked .till then the relations were peaceful.
it is only after that the relations soured.however efforts are being made by both to improve the relation lets hope and pray it works.personally i would love to visit china ,heard it is a very beautiful place.but i dont trust the chinese.

-Ok,I admit that I do not know that part of history very well(most from chinese history books,so it´s very "one side"story). So can you tell me why we attacked(if we start it)? I can´t see the reason why we attack india back then (60´s).

Srirangan.
India and russia do has the defence deal,also Frace and England has same deal with Poland back 30´s. They are obliged to help you when you need them,but I think they won´t attack china so blindly,as i see it they well do as what we well do India attack Pakistan. Arms sells and politic support well come first,and after that if India is loosing very badly THEN they well attack.
Ofcourse India well not lose that badly,so all what russia well need is offer arms to India. India vs China has only one winner,that well be US. 2 bird with one stone :(

Please,I hate when people say that I am "repeating chinese propaganda". 12years outside China,I when to Finnise school,so I do not think the our " propaganda machine" has got me "yet". ;)

"By all neutral",there is no neutral in taking sides. You have already taking the side,after saying taiwan is a country,so you are repeating your sides propaganda? Propaganda or not,I am a chinese so I do not need propaganda to say that taiwan was and is a part of china. Why India not give up Kashmier,the territory which India and Pakistan are fighting for,sorry I don´t know did I got the name right. So when you say Kashmier is yours and Pakistan say is theirs,are not repeating Indias propaganda? Oh,but do not take this as offence,it´s not that. :D:

from what i can extrapolate you are saying that if india needs it the UK and France will jump inn to help out INdia in its military endevours. well all i can say here is that will never happen enve India is clever enough to understand that its cruel world out here and no one help any one when, you have to face the music you usually face it allone. UK or France do not have an obligation to defend India(and frankly do not have the resources to defend such a bigg land area). we we have not done so in the past three wars neither will we end up intervening. If you look at the relationship of india with UK, it is of equal of Pakistan and UK, these both countries were a part of the British Empire there is no way uk would take side here rather uk would take this up to the USNC to resolve the matter and order a withdrawal of both parties form war. No one can fight the Chinese specially if your living next to them, they can march down like they did in the 60's.

[adsH]

and the fact that when ever us-Goes to war-there is one country that always sticks with them and it is The UK

the UK didn't follow the US into the Suez Crisis, IIRC the UK and France were mightily irritated at the US for not stepping in.

the UK didn't follow the US into Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam

Similarly, there have been about 12 "events" in the last 40 years where the UK was fighting a bullet shooting war and the US was not present.

yeah i did realize that, and what i realy meant was that from the current wars onwards i don't see the UK backing out of anything that the US has a role inn. unless you change the Labour Party, but thats unlikely the Labour party is one of the favorites here, and i doubt they can loose (i personally support labour party ). the conservatives are still very conservative they belive in a one Whole uk, which preserves its identity as a british(fare enough but they'd rather cut us off form the rest of europe) they believe taking away the Pound and getting the Euro is treason !! but i doubt they would support the US wars in the future. the Labour party and Tony Blair (the most impressive Prime Minister to this date) is US best hope during the hard-times.

[srirangan]

Proteus,

You fail to realize that their are many to gain if China falls. Russia, India and the US are just the most important of those. There are many others including Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan ofcourse plus many other regional players.

Plus don't compare the European situations to the Asian one, there were many variables playing there. Here it is reasonably simpler.

[gf0012-aust]

yeah i did realize that,

matey, I was being pedantic. :D:

[pezfez]

i thought this thread was supposed to be about china help to PN?

[corsair7772]

Thanks for doin my job. :(

Back to Topic.

[mysterious]

i thought this thread was supposed to be about china help to PN?

Yeah pezfez, some ppl just cant stick to the topic! ;)

[Salman78]

Whats the blue blubous thing in the front. A sonar i guess :?: