What is the real noise level of the F-35?

F-15 Eagle

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OK I'm getting mixed signals from various sources about the noise of the F-35. So is it going to be twice as loud as the F-15? Or will be be the same as the F-16? F-18? F-22?

And if its the same as the F-16 or the F-18 how does that compare to the F-15?

Or maybe it really is twice as loud as the F-15?

Please can someone give me a non-biased and official(not a fake) study because I really want to know what the real noise level of the F-35 is.
 

Sea Toby

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While I haven't measured the sound, living near Fort Worth and driving under the aircraft on take off and landing, I haven't noticed a sound difference with my ears. Nobody in Fort Worth is complaining about very loud aircraft either.

If they are twice as loud, why aren't the citizens of Fort Worth complaining to their city council? If they were twice as loud, why hasn't the local media made any fuss?

Of course, the citizens of Fort Worth don't bat an eye lash when they hear a sonic boom either.
 

F-15 Eagle

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While I haven't measured the sound, living near Fort Worth and driving under the aircraft on take off and landing, I haven't noticed a sound difference with my ears. Nobody in Fort Worth is complaining about very loud aircraft either.

If they are twice as loud, why aren't the citizens of Fort Worth complaining to their city council? If they were twice as loud, why hasn't the local media made any fuss?

Of course, the citizens of Fort Worth don't bat an eye lash when they hear a sonic boom either.
Maybe its because most people realize its the sound of freedom? So they are not bothered by the noise. I don't when F-15s fly over my house, even F-35s it wont bother me. I love the sound of jets, I could listen to it all day if I could.
 

SpudmanWP

The Bunker Group
Several new studies, including from the Norwegian govt, concluded that it IS NOT twice as loud. Not even close.
 

F-15 Eagle

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Several new studies, including from the Norwegian govt, concluded that it IS NOT twice as loud. Not even close.
Than how loud is it? Does it compare to the F-15 at all?

Although I am skeptical on how accurate the Norwegian study is, after all how did they do it without an F-35 to test? The U.S. did even comment about it ether, making me wounder on how accurate it rally is.

Plus it says the F-35 is 5Bs louder than the F-16. But 5dB is a lot, almost 3 times louder because the measurement of decibels is in a exponential scale.

It would be nice if the USAF released an official study on the noise of the F-35. Which I thought they already did in late 2008-2009 which concluded that it was twice as loud as the F-15.

This article says the noise of the F-35 is in the same class as the F-22, F/A-18, F-4, and the B-52.

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/riggs_16454___article.html/noise_navy.html

I also remeber reading somewhere about the USMC talking about how the F-35 may be twice as loud as the F-15 and F-16 but the same as he F/A-18. So the F/A-18 is louder than the F-15 as well, so I don't see why its so hard for people to believe the F-35 is louder.
 
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Than how loud is it? Does it compare to the F-15 at all?

Plus it says the F-35 is 5Bs louder than the F-16. But 5dB is a lot, almost 3 times louder because the measurement of decibels is in a exponential scale.
while +3dB is considered to be "twice as loud", it is more approx to +10dB to be perceived as twice as loud to the human ear.
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
Discussions of perceptions of sound levels aside: JSF typically doesn't use as much throttle (i.e. afterburner) on take off and has fewer take offs per flight hour as the jets it replaces, thus noise impact is approximately the same.

So direct comparison based on noise level as function of % thrust is somewhat meaningless unless flight regimes out of a specific air base are known.
 

F-15 Eagle

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while +3dB is considered to be "twice as loud", it is more approx to +10dB to be perceived as twice as loud to the human ear.
So if its 5 dB louder, than the F-35 is actually almost 3 times louder than the F-16. To the human ear its just a big loud BRAAAM ether way though.:D

Discussions of perceptions of sound levels aside: JSF typically doesn't use as much throttle (i.e. afterburner) on take off and has fewer take offs per flight hour as the jets it replaces, thus noise impact is approximately the same.

So direct comparison based on noise level as function of % thrust is somewhat meaningless unless flight regimes out of a specific air base are known.
Thats because the thrust to weight ratio and the power of the F135/F136 is so high the F-35 can take off with just military thrust and still make the same noise as an F-15 or F-16 in full after burner when they take off.

But when the F-35 is in full AB it is twice as loud as the F-15 or F-16 in AB. But take offs are the same noise as the F-35 only needs 80% power or whatever unless full AB is used on take off. Is that what you were saying. If so that makes sense.
 

gf0012-aust

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OK I'm getting mixed signals from various sources about the noise of the F-35. So is it going to be twice as loud as the F-15? Or will be be the same as the F-16? F-18? F-22?

And if its the same as the F-16 or the F-18 how does that compare to the F-15?

Or maybe it really is twice as loud as the F-15?

Please can someone give me a non-biased and official(not a fake) study because I really want to know what the real noise level of the F-35 is.
I (and Abe Gubler) have responded to this noise study issue after we attended the JSF briefing on Mar 12.

Have a look back in other JSF comments
 
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Sea Toby

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I would think most citizens of Fort Worth know the base was there before their homes were built. That Lockheed Martin pays twice as much in salary as anyone else. And basically its the sound of freedom! But a sonic boom is much much louder than any aircraft taking off or landing.

As a military brat, army, at our base they would shoot the big guns, artillery, every Friday evening and night. When my aunts and uncles visited they would complain about being woke up at night with the constant shelling. Of course, us brats slept through it all. Hint: Don't visit Fort Sill or Lawton, Oklahoma Friday nights if you aren't used to shelling five mile away.
 

karan583

New Member
OK I'm getting mixed signals from various sources about the noise of the F-35. So is it going to be twice as loud as the F-15? Or will be be the same as the F-16? F-18? F-22?

And if its the same as the F-16 or the F-18 how does that compare to the F-15?

Or maybe it really is twice as loud as the F-15?

Please can someone give me a non-biased and official(not a fake) study because I really want to know what the real noise level of the F-35 is.
A part of the report that started this whole circus is found here:
http://www.eglin.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-081016-061.pdf

If you don't wish to go trough all 64 pages, you can have a look at Table 7-8 here: http://i42.tinypic.com/2exabue.jpg and Table 7-10 here: http://i40.tinypic.com/21eoo4i.jpg

One can not stress enough that you must be to careful when using terms as "twice as loud". A increase in sound pressure by 6 dB is the same as saying the sound pressure is doubled. However, you need to increase it by 10 dB in order to perceive it as the doubled sound pressure

Several new studies, including from the Norwegian govt, concluded that it IS NOT twice as loud. Not even close.
When did Norway get a hold of a F-35 do conduct noise studies?

The Dutch did a so called study recently in order to calm down the lower house. This study was heavily criticized and questions regarding the independence of the organization conducting the study were raised.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Well as far as the chart is concerned, citizens don't live a 1000 feet under a plane at attitude over 7 miles up. And as far as take off is concerned, most fighter aircraft go more or less straight up, hardly affected any citizens which might live at the end of the runway. On the other hand when it comes to landing citizens would be affected by approaching landing aircraft at 1,000 feet up. I notice this is when the aircraft is the quietest on the chart.

Never-the-less outside a few major metropolitan cities, not many citizens live under take off and landing approaches to an air force base which are usually located in rural areas. Most citizens live next to the base not under the runway approaches.

Thus any study won't reflect reality. Chances are most citizens that even live close to the base would be at least one mile away from runway approaches. Any suitable reliable study should post noise at 5000 feet, not 1000 feet as far as citizens are concerned.

Which brings us back to the usefulness of any study. I'm much more worried about the noise and shock effect of a sonic boom than any aircraft which might be landing.
 

karan583

New Member
Well as far as the chart is concerned, citizens don't live a 1000 feet under a plane at attitude over 7 miles up. And as far as take off is concerned, most fighter aircraft go more or less straight up, hardly affected any citizens which might live at the end of the runway. On the other hand when it comes to landing citizens would be affected by approaching landing aircraft at 1,000 feet up. I notice this is when the aircraft is the quietest on the chart.

Never-the-less outside a few major metropolitan cities, not many citizens live under take off and landing approaches to an air force base which are usually located in rural areas. Most citizens live next to the base not under the runway approaches.

Thus any study won't reflect reality. Chances are most citizens that even live close to the base would be at least one mile away from runway approaches. Any suitable reliable study should post noise at 5000 feet, not 1000 feet as far as citizens are concerned.

Which brings us back to the usefulness of any study. I'm much more worried about the noise and shock effect of a sonic boom than any aircraft which might be landing.
This is a valid point for Australia and USA which isn't that crowded (8 resp. 80 ppl/sq-mi). For UK and Netherlands, these numbers are 637 resp. 1025 pp/sq-mi. And the fact is that Norway estimated costs of $2B (if I remember correctly) just for moving people and sound proofing houses.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Are you saying they should never fly faster than the speed of sound, because a sonic boom from an aircraft at 40,000 feet is much louder than any aircraft landing.

And do you consider noise a great issue when comparing whether an aircraft is suitable as a fighter. If that is so, their air forces would consist only of balloons.
 

F-15 Eagle

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A part of the report that started this whole circus is found here:
http://www.eglin.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-081016-061.pdf

If you don't wish to go trough all 64 pages, you can have a look at Table 7-8 here: http://i42.tinypic.com/2exabue.jpg and Table 7-10 here: http://i40.tinypic.com/21eoo4i.jpg

One can not stress enough that you must be to careful when using terms as "twice as loud". A increase in sound pressure by 6 dB is the same as saying the sound pressure is doubled. However, you need to increase it by 10 dB in order to perceive it as the doubled sound pressure


When did Norway get a hold of a F-35 do conduct noise studies?

The Dutch did a so called study recently in order to calm down the lower house. This study was heavily criticized and questions regarding the independence of the organization conducting the study were raised.
Ok so the F-35 is louder than the F-15C, got it.

Also I believe in the study from the USAF too, I don't buy the one from Norway ether.
 

gf0012-aust

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Never-the-less outside a few major metropolitan cities, not many citizens live under take off and landing approaches to an air force base which are usually located in rural areas. Most citizens live next to the base not under the runway approaches.

Thus any study won't reflect reality.
The sound tests are conducted over a an averaged period to simulate average flight/usage conditions.

ie. they operate and conduct like a normal airforce operation
 

F-15 Eagle

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I just fount this article but it does not make much sense.

Its says the F/A-18 Super Hornet and the F-35 only make 148 dBs in AB but the F-16 somehow makes 150? There is no way the F-16 is 2 dB louder than the F-35. And no way in hell it can be louder than a super hornet. Plus I thought the F-35 does 152 dB in AB not 148 dB.

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/visit_16678___article.html/afb_week.html

I think its just a briefing and not an official study so the numbers here are incorrect just like most other sources.
 

F-15 Eagle

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Any particular reason for your obsession with this issue? Do you live under the flightpath of a major airbase?
Obsession? Nah I just want to know what the noise is when everything I read says something different. Why is that a crime?:unknown
 
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