UAE Confirms Discussions With France On Purchase Of Rafale

[ROCK45]

I had no idea that the UAE's Mirages were older upgraded models I assume all were built new. That should have a effect on their resale value and explain why the UAE want the new Rafale's.

France may have to eat the loses if bought back but getting something for them is better then nothing. Putting them in storage seems wrong some countries could make front line fighters out of them if the price were right.

If sold at low offset prices France might still get maintenance support contracts, spares, and weapons sales, so it wouldn't be a total loss. Beats deep storage or some French bone yard if they have one.

[swerve]

Originally Posted by ROCK45

I had no idea that the UAE's Mirages were older upgraded models I assume all were built new. That should have a effect on their resale value and explain why the UAE want the new Rafale's.

Some of the UAEs Mirages are upgraded older models. The UAE bought 36 Mirage 2000 in the 1980s (first delivery 1989), & 32 Mirage 2000-9 later (first delivery 2003). It's upgraded 30 older Mirages.

At least 1 M2K-9 has been lost.

[jtm]

Hi everyone

I reactivate this thread since i've just read news on the topic.

The 13th of march the Koweiti prime minister and defense minister said that "Kuweit is looking forward to see rafales flying in its AF" (personal traduction).

Looks like 2009 might definitely be a good year for the rafale. IMHO, Kuweit won't buy rafales (or a few only), and will buy 2K9s from UAE AF, which will ease the deal between Dassault and the UAE gvt. But this is only an analysis, I'm open to contradiction

[Josef]

The Dassault Rafale is the best available fighter for UAE and even Kuwait.

It should discouraged Iran from violating Kuwaiti airspace and even the Persian gulf which UAE needs to secure.

Hope UAE purchase the Rafale.

[ROCK45]

Hi Josef
Does Iran violate Kuwait's airspace a lot? I wasn't aware of this do you know what types of aircraft Iran's violates Kuwait's with?

Thanks

[Aussie Digger]

Originally Posted by jtm

Hi everyone

I reactivate this thread since i've just read news on the topic.

The 13th of march the Koweiti prime minister and defense minister said that "Kuweit is looking forward to see rafales flying in its AF" (personal traduction).

Looks like 2009 might definitely be a good year for the rafale. IMHO, Kuweit won't buy rafales (or a few only), and will buy 2K9s from UAE AF, which will ease the deal between Dassault and the UAE gvt. But this is only an analysis, I'm open to contradiction

Why is Kuwait looking to buy new fighters? Are they looking to add to it's existing fleet, based around the F/A-18C/D, or replace them?

Their F/A-18C/D's aren't all that old...

[swerve]

Keeping up with the Joneses? The UAE, Saudi Arabia & Oman are all buying or looking at new aircraft.

It's not a region famed for rational (in a purely military sense) procurement decisions.

[ROCK45]

I saw another article about the possibility of a Rafale sale to the UAE it seem more current then others.

Wanted to know if they got buyer for the Mirage 2000-5/9 fighters I looked but didn't see anything?

Regional wise is Kuwait looking for new fighters as well can't find a single thing about them wanting to replace the Hornets or even being displeased in their performance. France at one point was trying sell Rafale's there as well.

Does anybody know which fighter type the UAE uses more Block-60 Viper or Mirage 2000-9? Sorry for the basic question just always wanted to know that.

Thanks

Link to Rafale article
UPDATE 2-Dassault in talks with Emirates over Rafale jets | Reuters

[icekid]

France opened a base in UAE look Defence Aviation: French Military base in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

I went to see the open ceremony and from a distance I saw 5 rafales lined up... I have been reading in local newspapers that UAE officials are interested in Rafale... So I guess UAE will go for RAFALE

[ROCK45]

Thanks icekid
I'm rooting for the Rafale to land it's first export sale they seem to have a real chance here.

[jtm]

A few news about the Rafale deal with EAU air force.

- the rafale you saw during Sarkozy's visit were actually on their way back from Afghanistan for what i know, and were here to attest the fact that France will have 5 to 6 combat planes on Al Dhafra base from now on. It will not necessarily be rafales, but it was good for the picture, and our president loves pictures...

- the deal is far to be closed. As I said a few weeks ago, EAU want to get rid of the mirages 2000-9, and it will be france's job to sell them on the occasion market which is not that easy in this economy.

- the EAU have not bought the rafale yet for a few reasons. First, there are discussion on price, which is not surprising. But the real problem is that they want planes much more sophisticated than the one operating in the french AF today. Current rafales are standard-1 and standard-2 rafales. Dassault is supposed to deliver standard-3 rafales by 2012. Actually the EAU want a plane ever more sophisticated (they talk about a -4 model), just as they did with mirages-9 (better than the ones in the french AF) and with leclerc tanks later (same thing). They want active antenae, more countermeasure electronics, a plane much more stealthy, an improved engine power, and the ability to carry the new air to air missile "meteor".

My analysis is that they will buy rafales in the end, but not now, and maybe more expensive than expected in the first place. Rumors say 6-8 bn euros, it will probably be 8-10 bn euros in the end. They are ready to pay the price, but they want top aircrafts. We can't blame them, with Iran that close. It's a real challenge for Dassault, because spending so much R&D to develop a plane, for only 60 pieces, is virtually suicidal. Especially since they won't sell these -4 models to the french AF that just can't afford them.

I'll keep in touch if I have news...

Excuse my english, it's late over here and I should probably be sleeping

[Blue Streak]

The UAEAF (EUA?) want Dassault and French Industry to deliver the near impossible considering the price thet've offered, and thus no deal signed as yet or near.

Abu Dhabi has a very high list of demands.

The UAEAF want SNECMA to upgrade their M88 engine to develop 20,000lb of thrust at full afterburner. This will involve a substantial redesign of the current model incorporating the use of carbon fibre and titanium materials. The UAEAF have requested the lighter EJ2000 be also studied as an alternative, despite that also potentially involving a substantial redesign.

They have also demanded any order rests upon Thales improving the perfomance of their RBE2AESA radar. The UAEAF were very impressed with its promised ECCM performance, however concerned at its development stage and effective range. Thales (with UAEAF invetsment) have promised to deliver.

The UAEAF was very impressed by the SPECTRA electronics suite of the Rafale and want to ensure any French upgrade of the system is available to themselves. Likewise, they are eager to ensure any cockpit enhancements are made available for future use, including any upgraded HMCS missile cueing system.

Access to future French guided munition technology is expected, including the use of European GPS-based targeting sources. Any UAEAF order of Rafale should incorporate the ability to target and launch MBDA Black Shaheen and variants.

The purchase and full utility of MBDA Meteor or future alteterantives with possible technology transfer should be guaranteed.

The order would be Government to Government.

Dassault would take as part payment of any Rafale order, the UAEAF's active quoter of Mirage 2000-9EAD/DAD. The UAE at same time would order at least two French submarines and put options on another two FREEMs that it could sell to a third party.

[jtm]

Thank you for your post, much more precise than my previous one...
I'd be glad to know if you have any more intel on the deal. Over here (in France), some people say that a deal could be sealed before 2010, maybe mid-november...maybe a little later.

Do you have any kind of info or heard rumors that could confirm this ?

best regards

JTM

[Blue Streak]

Originally Posted by jtm

Thank you for your post, much more precise than my previous one...
I'd be glad to know if you have any more intel on the deal. Over here (in France), some people say that a deal could be sealed before 2010, maybe mid-november...maybe a little later.

Do you have any kind of info or heard rumors that could confirm this ?

best regards

JTM

TacticalReport.com is a very good source, but you have to pay for it's intel. However it is rarely wrong.

IntelligenceOnline.com (a French website) similarly charges for its inside knowledge, but again its sources seem very good.

[Blue Streak]

The RSAF despite there long range deployment to Dijon; their F-15S have seemingly outperfomed Rafale during BVRAAM engagements.

Saudi pilots, graduates of US Red Flag even moved within visual range-kills of the Rafale.