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Taiwan to build 3rd-generation warplane with Russia's help

This is a discussion on Taiwan to build 3rd-generation warplane with Russia's help within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Now this is a interesting information ... it may be true, it may not but we will never know as ...


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Old June 21st, 2009   #1
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Taiwan to build 3rd-generation warplane with Russia's help

Now this is a interesting information ... it may be true, it may not but we will never know as both sides will deny it for sure with only China times saying its true and other newspapers who copy-paste the story ....

Now if this proves to be true (some time in the future) it would make a funny way of revenging the copy-pasted Su-27/S-300/and wast amount of other ground/air/naval military equipment.

Btw ... now as some light has being trown at Russia Taiwan relation ... where did Taiwan menaged to made aerodynamic and ram-jet engine for its Hsiund Feng 3 missile ?


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Taiwan to build 3rd-generation warplane with Russia's help
Europe News


Jun 19, 2009, 1:44 GMT

Taipei - Taiwan plans to build its third-generation warplane with Russian technology as the United States has refused to sell Taiwan F-16C/Ds, a newspaper reported Friday.

The Aerospace Industrial Development Corp (AIDC), which sent personnel to Russia for instruction from Russian experts, has finished designing the third-generation warplane, the China Times quoted an unnamed military official as saying.

The as-yet-unnamed third-generation warplane will have twin engines and be able to take off and land with a short airstrip, the official said.

During the design process, Taiwan and Russian experts studied the design of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), the United States' most advanced fighter jet, but Taiwan's aircraft is shorter than the JSF, the military official said.

The paper said that Taiwan ordered 150 F-16A/Bs in 1992 to form its second-generation fleet, which also included 60 French Mirage 2000-5s and 130 self-made Indigenous Defence Fighters (IDF).

To deter any possible attack from China, Taiwan has been seeking to buy the more advanced F-16C/Ds, or JSF, but Washington has turned down the request, agreeing only to upgrade Taiwan's F-16A/Bs. This prompted Taiwan to decide to build its own third-generation warplanes for self-defence, despite improved Taipei-Beijing ties.

Taiwan and China have been split since the end of the Chinese Civil War in 1949.

China sees Taiwan as its breakaway province and has vowed to recover Taiwan by force if Taipei declares independence or indefinitely delays holding unification talks with Beijing.

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Old June 21st, 2009   #2
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Now this is a interesting information ... it may be true, it may not but we will never know as both sides will deny it for sure with only China times saying its true and other newspapers who copy-paste the story ....

Now if this proves to be true (some time in the future) it would make a funny way of revenging the copy-pasted Su-27/S-300/and wast amount of other ground/air/naval military equipment.

Btw ... now as some light has being trown at Russia Taiwan relation ... where did Taiwan menaged to made aerodynamic and ram-jet engine for its Hsiund Feng 3 missile ?
Thanks for that article. I wonder how China feels about that!? Good for Russia and Taiwan, Russian's make great fighter planes. Yeah, let the Russian's show the Chinese how to make a plane. Does anybody else see some turmoil in this deal, Reguarding Russia and Chinese relations? I realize Russia is doing this for capital reasons, but China will surely be paranoid over this move.

EDIT: Now that I think of it....Russia made China sign an agreement over China using Russian designs....Now, they allow China's enemy (Taiwan) use it? That's an 180 degree on their policy toward foreign competitors .....

Last edited by F35Owns; June 21st, 2009 at 08:33 AM.
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Old June 21st, 2009   #3
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I doubt it's true but if it's true Taiwan is going Russian, I'd imagine China will be relieved since it means Taiwan air force will most likely be bogged down with delays, cost overruns and quality issues for many years to come. LOL
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Old June 21st, 2009   #4
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surplus tranche 1 typhoons would be better.
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Old June 21st, 2009   #5
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it's complete false. AIDC has already come out to deny this. case closed.
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Old June 21st, 2009   #6
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That does not nessesseraly mean anything ... like they would acknowledge even if they did??
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Old June 21st, 2009   #7
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it's complete false. AIDC has already come out to deny this. case closed.
It might be completely false, but of course AIDC is going to deny it either way. If they really were working with the Russians they'd keep everything quiet until they'd got government approval and the money was flowing. Even then they might keep their mouths shut rather than have the Russians spooked by too much media coverage. Soon enough everyone will have "forgotten" about this.
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Old June 21st, 2009   #8
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It might be completely false, but of course AIDC is going to deny it either way. If they really were working with the Russians they'd keep everything quiet until they'd got government approval and the money was flowing. Even then they might keep their mouths shut rather than have the Russians spooked by too much media coverage. Soon enough everyone will have "forgotten" about this.
considering the number of spies that China has in both Taiwan and Russia, China will find out if they are getting help from the Russians or not. You only need to look at the big deal that China made out of the recent US weapon sales to Taiwan (which didn't even include F-16s) to see what China's reaction would be to Russia assisting Taiwan on a 5th gen projects. It's the political fallout that Russia needs to worry about. Think SCO, think BRIC, think the recent currency swaps and such.

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That does not nessesseraly mean anything ... like they would acknowledge even if they did??
how would they ever be able to hide it in the long run? I feel like my intelligence has been insulted by posts like this.
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Old June 22nd, 2009   #9
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considering the number of spies that China has in both Taiwan and Russia, China will find out if they are getting help from the Russians or not. You only need to look at the big deal that China made out of the recent US weapon sales to Taiwan (which didn't even include F-16s) to see what China's reaction would be to Russia assisting Taiwan on a 5th gen projects.
I didn't state that Russia would do any of that. I said that AIDC would deny it if it were really happening. And despite your view that China would know anyway, knowing or suspecting isn't the same as having incontroversial proof and/or official acknowledgment something is the case.
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Old June 22nd, 2009   #10
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Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
considering the number of spies that China has in both Taiwan and Russia, China will find out if they are getting help from the Russians or not. You only need to look at the big deal that China made out of the recent US weapon sales to Taiwan (which didn't even include F-16s) to see what China's reaction would be to Russia assisting Taiwan on a 5th gen projects. It's the political fallout that Russia needs to worry about. Think SCO, think BRIC, think the recent currency swaps and such.


how would they ever be able to hide it in the long run? I feel like my intelligence has been insulted by posts like this.
In the long run nothing can remain hidden ... ofcourse but Russia can allways deny any formal involment in project and credit some breakaway scientiest responsible ....

What are you trying to say with BRIC and SCO ... China copy-paste Russia weapons and this is payback and lesson! ... if true of course ...
MIG has some fine LMFI project on going ...
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Old June 22nd, 2009   #11
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The story of this thread is so unlikely as to be actually farcical. Only last week at the SCO annual summit in Ekaterinaberg, Russia reaffirmed in the joint communique of a two nations summit, its position as recognising only one China and Taiwan is simply a province of it.

Moscow regards the Sino-Russian relationship is far to valuable to flush down the pan just for the sale of a few jets.

It Taiwan is getting Su30's then either it is a highly strategic move orchestrated through Beijing, or they are re-sales from another country that is unconcerned at facing Chinese ire over the issue, which in today's economic environment is nearly as unlikely as a direct sale form Russia.
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Old June 23rd, 2009   #12
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Moscow regards the Sino-Russian relationship is far to valuable to flush down the pan just for the sale of a few jets.
So what you are basicly saying is that Moscow is a bitch who has no alternatives but to bend over to China whenewer they decide to copy-paste its system ??????

If China does not respect Russia for what god forsaken reason would you expect Russia to respect China ??

What SOC and BRIC reasons are saying?? explain??
And why should Russia have any more respect to China ... because of its support in Russia Georgia war maybe ?? or its copy-paste weapons ... LOL
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Old June 23rd, 2009   #13
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So what you are basicly saying is that Moscow is a bitch who has no alternatives but to bend over to China whenewer they decide to copy-paste its system ??????
How on earth did you infer that? He's saying Russia has more to gain from a healthy relationship with China than it does from the development or sale of jets with Taiwan. Calm down.
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Old June 23rd, 2009   #14
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In the long run nothing can remain hidden ... ofcourse but Russia can allways deny any formal involment in project and credit some breakaway scientiest responsible ....

What are you trying to say with BRIC and SCO ... China copy-paste Russia weapons and this is payback and lesson! ... if true of course ...
MIG has some fine LMFI project on going ...
Let's address two things here:
1. It has everything to do with politics/economics. Countries don't sell weapons to Taiwan, because they are worried about the political and economical ramifications rather than military exports. France, Germany, UK and Israel can't export to China, but they still refuse to deal with Taiwan, why don't you think that is? Recently, US received hell from China for the military exports from end of last year and that was even though F-16 wasn't part of the package. Why do you think F-16 is off the table now? You think US wants to piss China off when it needs China to buy its treasuries? Now, Russia is looking to change the world financial system with a new world currency that is not USD. That's why it brought in the BRIC countries as a counter weight to G-8. It's actively looking for China to buy its gov't bonds. It needs Chinese financing for different energy cooperation deals. It needs China to inject money into SCO countries to keep them afloat and anti-USA. I can really go on and on with all the areas of cooperation it needs from China, most of them economical/financially related. Remember, world power shifts to where money is, especially when we are in a depression.

Think a little bit before you post.

2. As for China copying Russian weapons, yes it does happen, but it's not like the way Russia described it. For example, a project like J-11B is actually a licensed production that is done well within the original contract, but Sukhoi is pissed off that China is not buying Su-35 or the upgrade programs that it is offering. That's why it's complaining so much. There were a lot more copying going on a few years ago, but Russia didn't say a thing because China was still buying its weapons. Now, it's complaining because China is no longer buying its weapons, but if you look at the latest stuff coming out from China, there is not that much that's even based on Russian stuff. Outside of J-11B, the only thing I can think of that is even based on Russian stuff is a couple of sensors on 054A (none of which is copied contrary to what Russians may say), their copy of D-30, WS-13, missile component of HQ-9 and possibly the large transport (although we haven't seen its photos yet).
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Old June 24th, 2009   #15
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Tphuang you overestimate Chinese power. Russia showed in 080808 that it becomes super power once more. China depend on Russia as Russia on China - nothing more. and do not overestimate the number of Chinese spies in Russia - our guys if they want keep secrets very very well - this is known by everybody.
May be 10 years ago we needed China more then China needed Russia but now we are equal.
You want to say that SCO and BRIK are unnecessary for China?? You want to say that China didn't need to change current world financial system? If so i have a question - what the hell China is doing in those organizations if it doesn't need them??
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