Sukhoi S-37N/Golden Eagle Stealth Fighter

[Sam-9]

This is a multi-purpose fighter of the fifth generation wich is my favorite,Its combining features of a supersonic super maneuverable aircraft undetectable by radar and infra-red surveillance devices."
S-37Current economic hardships in Russia hamper development of its industry, primarily the hi-tech sectors.But, despite these hardships, Russia retains its posture among the world's leading aircraft manufacturers, owing to the vast potential of the aircraft building industry gained in recent decades. A shining example of this potential was the development by the Sukhoi Experimental Design Bureau (leader of Russia's aircraft building industry) of the S-37, man what a Monster in the sky well if you like to post your favorite or comment on it,ill be waiting see yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[vivtho]

This aircraft is supposed to have some features to reduce it's radar cross section. Can anybody give an estimate of how much lesser it's RCS is compared to existing fighters?

 

[rjmaz1]

Jusging by its design and common stealth techniques i cant see it being any more stealthy than a Super Hornet.

So even if its fighter radar was the most powerful in the world, an F-22 would still chop it to pieces

The Su-47 is also completely useless in design, it is optimised for slow speeddog fighting which rarely happens anymore. Even with stealth the increase radar power still allows the aircraft to detected eachother outside the visual range.

The F-22 can sustain high mach speeds while pulling 9G's, no Russian aircraft can do this.

 

[Sam-9]

the S-37

Jusging by its design and common stealth techniques i cant see it being any more stealthy than a Super Hornet.

So even if its fighter radar was the most powerful in the world, an F-22 would still chop it to pieces

The Su-47 is also completely useless in design, it is optimised for slow speeddog fighting which rarely happens anymore. Even with stealth the increase radar power still allows the aircraft to detected eachother outside the visual range.

The F-22 can sustain high mach speeds while pulling 9G's, no Russian aircraft can do this.

Dimesions (mm): -
-wingspan: 16.7
-lenght overall: 22.6
-heigth overall: 6,4
Maximum speed (km/h): -
-at height: 2500
-at S/L: 1400
Weight (kg): empty: 24'000
Engine: D30F6/AL-31FU
Thrust: 2 x 15'500 kg
Service ceiling: 18000 m
Range (km): 3300
Number of hardpoints: 14: 2 wingtip; 6-8 underwing; 6-4 conformal underfus. + GSh-301
Air-to-air missiles: KS-172 (AA, range=400km), RVV-AE, R-77; R-77PD; R-73; K-74
Air-to-Surface: X-29T; X-29L; X-59M; X-31P/A; KAB-500/1500 should be noted here that structurally this aircraft's design incorporated stealth-technology elements. The forward-swept wing has a lower radar signature from the front hemisphere. The extensive use of composite materials and installation of air intakes with curved air ducts, and in the future "flat" nozzles, is to contribute to reduction of the aircraft's radar signature. Besides, the aircraft weapon system is arranged in internal compartments, however, the air weapons can be attached to the under-wing pylons, if the need arises.

Currently the S-37 aircraft is powered by two D-30F6 turbofans. It is planned to substitute them with new-generation engines.

Naturally, the Sukhoi Bureau should do a lot to fulfill the fly tests of the S-37 experimental aircraft to meet the requirements of the Air Force.

Taking into consideration the available research and engineering gains and foreign developers’ experience in creating aircraft of similar aerodynamic configurations, given the current level of financing of military orders and the technical and economical risks, it is unlikely that a development program will be implemented rapidly.

However, its clear even today that construction of the S-37 aircraft, with its extensive potential for further development, has huge technological, military, and political significance in competing for primacy in the aircraft building against Western manufacturers of combat aviation materiel in order to enhance Russia's posture on the international arms market.The FSW is a better performer at high angles of attack in post-stall manoeuvring much needed in close-in dogfight. The fact that Simonov had chosen FSW for his fifth-generation fighter once again confirms Sukhoi's commitment to the superagility as a crucial requirement for the next generation air-superiority fighter. This approach, so much different from western concepts of stealth, supercruise and BVR engagements, was taken to the limits in Su-37. The FSW S-32 fitted with TVC expected to outperform its stalemate in close-in dogfight involving post-stall flight regimes. Having the edge in manoeuvring, the S-32 is clearly catching up in stealth with US and European new-generation fighters. However even with its internal weapon bay and RAM coating, the new Sukhoi is a very different concept than F-22. The heavy accent on RAM rather than radar absorbing structures (RAS) is obvious.

The reason for such attitude is not clear, although a combination of the technology limitations and operational doctrine is most likely candidate. The major components of radar stealth -- RAM coatings and surface quality -- are subject to the production and maintenance tolerance as it was shown by USAF F-117 and B-2 operational experience. Untightened screws, scratches or unfastened access panels were known to greatly deteriorate the RCS of the aircraft, reducing the engineering efforts put into aircraft design. It remains to be seen how Sukhoi will overcome the looser production standards of the Russian aircraft plans. Give me a S-37n anytime Vs an F-22 in a dog fight and ill show you what i can do.

 

[Sam-9]

Mfi: Multifunctional Front-line Fighter

well lets see ummmm
The MFI fighter was to meet the following requirements:

- supermaneuverability (a capability to fly at supercritical angles of attack, at increased level of sustained and available g-loads and high turn-angle rate, which require a greater thrust-to-weight ratio and improved wing aerodynamic efficiency);

- supersonic flight with afterburner disabled;

- low detectability in radar and IR wave bands;

- short takeoff and landing runs;

- a significant reduction in flight hour cost, ground crew, size and weight of non-standard ground support equipment;

- a new layout of onboard equipment and a new arrangement of cockpit information and control instruments; a high level of integration. With these requirements satisfied and a new generation of weapon systems, engines and avionics developed, the new aircraft would not only surpass all fighters of previous generations, but also outperform those developed under the ATF program launched by the United States approximately at the same time.

 

[LancerMc]

S-47 was designed to test the feasibility of the future use of forward swept wings in Russian fighters and attack aircraft. The airplane was never intended to be a production aircraft. It is essentially an equivalent of an American X-plane. Though the S-47 does have some stealth qualities it hold nothing even compared to F-22, and even the Eurofighter has significantly more stealth features. IR qualities the S-47 shares no similarities in IR suppression technology I have seen in other modern fighters.

S-47 will never become a production aircraft because its too expensive and difficult to make.

While MiG 1.44 was intended to be a production aircraft but the end of the cold war stopped any hope of it ever entering production. The initial prototype never had any of the stealthy features the production version was intended to have. I doubt even the Russian claims that it was a maneuverable at the F-22.

 

[Sam-9]

MiG 1.44

S-47 was designed to test the feasibility of the future use of forward swept wings in Russian fighters and attack aircraft. The airplane was never intended to be a production aircraft. It is essentially an equivalent of an American X-plane. Though the S-47 does have some stealth qualities it hold nothing even compared to F-22, and even the Eurofighter has significantly more stealth features. IR qualities the S-47 shares no similarities in IR suppression technology I have seen in other modern fighters.

S-47 will never become a production aircraft because its too expensive and difficult to make.

While MiG 1.44 was intended to be a production aircraft but the end of the cold war stopped any hope of it ever entering production. The initial prototype never had any of the stealthy features the production version was intended to have. I doubt even the Russian claims that it was a maneuverable at the F-22.

thanks for the info on the mig 1.44 but how do you know about migs have you ever tested one or even f/l/n in one of them just to clear things out i was talking ABOUT THE SUKHOI S-37n Vs F-22 not the s-47 i dont think there was an s-47 in the russian production. well any way tahnks and if you have more info it will be helpfull to read ir or see it talyhooooooooo

 

[rjmaz1]

*random specs that you ripped from wikipedia without a reference

You do realise that specifications like wingspan, length and maximum speed have no bearing on the capabilities of a fighter aircraft?

Sustained cruise speed, stealth and netcentric warfare are the most important aspects in current combat. Not only are these attributes used for fighting other aircraft but also reduce the detection time and no escape zone of the enemy ground based missile systems.

Lower radar cross section reduces the warning provided by ground based radar's, they then have less time to react and it may be too late. Sustained speed allows the F-22 to defeat most Surface to air missiles by allowing it to move outside the no escape zone of most SAM sites. This makes the F-22 more survivable

Copying specs from a website will not disprove anything i said.

In air to air combat only a slight advantage in detection range of the enemy can provide a huge advantage in kill ratio.

For example, if both aircraft had identicle radar's, the Suhkoi would detect the F-22 at 30 miles.. where as the F-22 would detect the suhkoi at 60 miles. This advantage is so big that the F-22 could fire an AMRAAM straight away and it would most likely hit the Suhkoi before it could detect the F-22.

If the Suhkoi did manage to get a shot in time before it was destroyed the suhkoi would not be able to provide midcourse updates to its missiles so when they become active the F-22 will be no where to be seen. Again the F-22's speed will allow it to move out of the no escape zone of the missile.

Having missiles on the suhkoi with a range of 400km is completely overkill, as any combat with US aircraft would see detect ranges below 100kms.

The best thing Russia could do would be to combine the limited development resources and make a fighter aircraft that can perform as many roles as possible. Long range is important as this means fewer air bases and fewer aircraft to patrol the same area, this will offset the extreme expensive of the fighter.

Empty weight of 20+ tonne
All aspect stealth, as close to the F-22 as possible
Big nose for a massive radar.
Supersonic cruise probably delta wing without canards.
Thrust vectoring to make the delta wing still be a decent dog fighting.
Internal weapons for both air and ground.
High fuel fraction of atleast 50%.

Basically something similar to the FB-22 concept. Or even a modern day stealthy Mig-31 This will be expensive but it will allow Russia to replace many older types of aircraft and even supplement some of the bigger bombers. It would also sell like hot cakes on the international market regardless of how expensive it is. China would buy a few just to counter the US F-22's.

 

[Chrom]

Since the advention of TVC pure aerodinamical ability lost its appearance. Now FSW just dont worth the addiditional troubles when you have such reliable and proven (for Russia) way as TVC.

 

[contedicavour]

Air-to-air missiles: KS-172 (AA, range=400km), RVV-AE, R-77; R-77PD; R-73; K-74

Could you say something more about this KS-172... what is this AAM that can fly up to 400 km ??? Besides, IIRC, the USN gave up the very long range Phoenix it had on its Tomcats because it was no better than shorter ranged AIM120 vs anything other than TU16 or TU22 or TU22M3, ie big bombers. I'm interested in knowing more about this Russian missile

cheers

 

[vivtho]

Could you say something more about this KS-172... what is this AAM that can fly up to 400 km ??? Besides, IIRC, the USN gave up the very long range Phoenix it had on its Tomcats because it was no better than shorter ranged AIM120 vs anything other than TU16 or TU22 or TU22M3, ie big bombers. I'm interested in knowing more about this Russian missile

cheers

The KS-172 is a weapon that is still under development. It is primarily meant to be used against AWACS, allowing the launch aircraft to fire it far beyond the range of the fighters escorting the AWACS.

Development of the missile began before the collapse of the USSR and was briefly cancelled. Since then it has been periodically revived. It has been offered as a possible weapon for the Su-27 family, subject to the customer providing funds to continue development. So far no Sukhoi operator has taken the bait.

No hard details of it's performance are known, but looking at it's size and weight, I doubt if it would be effective against fighters as it's just too d*** bulky. Thats not to say that it is of no use. Let a country use it against it opposing AWACS and tankers. It might not do anything for the air situation on the same day, but the loss of these force multipliers will be felt soon after.

 

[vivtho]

Since the advention of TVC pure aerodinamical ability lost its appearance. Now FSW just dont worth the addiditional troubles when you have such reliable and proven (for Russia) way as TVC.

Forward swept wings have other advantages too. The one that especially comes to mind is it's superiority in the low speed regime. This has potential to be used in every aspect of flight, especially in take off and landing.

 

[rjmaz1]

Low speed landing is only important for aircraft carrier operations.

By making an aircraft perform well at low speed you handicap the airframe design and restrict its supersonic performance. As 99% of todays combat is beyond visual range and requires speed, an aircraft manufacturer would be crazy to develop an aircraft designed for low speed handling.

The F-22 has a very high landing speed as the wing do not provide much lift at low speeds. If the F-22 didn't have thrust vectoring its low speed handling would be nothing special at all. With thrust vectoring though, the F-22 can match any fighter in a dogfighter in close in combat and while still having the speed to win the long range intercepts.

 

[Tasman]

thanks for the info on the mig 1.44 but how do you know about migs have you ever tested one or even f/l/n in one of them just to clear things out i was talking ABOUT THE SUKHOI S-37n Vs F-22 not the s-47 i dont think there was an s-47 in the russian production. well any way tahnks and if you have more info it will be helpfull to read ir or see it talyhooooooooo

Could someone please clarify which aircraft we are discussing. I am a bit confused about the designation of the aircraft we are talking about. Is the Su-47 a development of the Su-37 with forward swept wings? The photos look like an Su-47 but the discussion seems to be mainly about the Su-37.

Cheers

 

[LancerMc]

Sam-9's initial thread identifies the Sukhoi S-47 as the Su-37. The S-47 is a forward swept test fighter. The Su-37 is the super maneuverable version of the Su-27. The Su-37 was never was intended for production just like the S-47, it was designed completely as a technology demonstrator and airshow crowd pleaser.

For clarification for the thread

Its the S-47 Golden Eagle and Su-37 Super Flanker (Terminator)

I hope this helps

 

[Tasman]

Sam-9's initial thread identifies the Sukhoi S-47 as the Su-37. The S-47 is a forward swept test fighter. The Su-37 is the super maneuverable version of the Su-27. The Su-37 was never was intended for production just like the S-47, it was designed completely as a technology demonstrator and airshow crowd pleaser.

For clarification for the thread

Its the S-47 Golden Eagle and Su-37 Super Flanker (Terminator)

I hope this helps

Thanks for that LancerMc.

Cheers

 

[vivtho]

Low speed landing is only important for aircraft carrier operations.

Lower landing speeds have applications other than carrier operations. Lower landing speeds are easier to handle by pilots. The airframe is also under a lot less stress. This in turn allows for a lighter structure and also allows for a much lighter landing gear design. This lighter weight in turn give even more agility to the aircraft.

By making an aircraft perform well at low speed you handicap the airframe design and restrict its supersonic performance. As 99% of todays combat is beyond visual range and requires speed, an aircraft manufacturer would be crazy to develop an aircraft designed for low speed handling.

Not necessarily. Just to give an example, the TSR.2 had excellent low-speed landing characteristics and yet it was capable of Mach 2 flight. The MiG-23 is capable of Mach 2 performance, but it's landing characteristics have been described as 'benign'.

Lower landing speeds do not necessarily translate into poorer overall performance. The forward swept wing is one way of handling this situation. Thrust vectoring is another. In the past other technology like the Fowler flap, blown flaps etc have been employed for the same effect of lowering landing speeds while allowing for a wing shaped for optimal performance.

The F-22 has a very high landing speed as the wing do not provide much lift at low speeds. If the F-22 didn't have thrust vectoring its low speed handling would be nothing special at all. With thrust vectoring though, the F-22 can match any fighter in a dogfighter in close in combat and while still having the speed to win the long range intercepts.

The F-22s wing design is indeed optimized for the high-speed regime. But that does not mean that it is ineffective at low speeds. If you look at its design parameters, supercruise was a major factor. However, the USAF policy has by the far been supportive towards longer range aircraft that can operate from safe bases behind the scene of battle. These bases can thus be much larger with longer runways. Thus lower landing speeds and it's consequent shorter landing rolls are not as critical an aspect as they are to other air forces.

 

[contedicavour]

The KS-172 is a weapon that is still under development. It is primarily meant to be used against AWACS, allowing the launch aircraft to fire it far beyond the range of the fighters escorting the AWACS.

Development of the missile began before the collapse of the USSR and was briefly cancelled. Since then it has been periodically revived. It has been offered as a possible weapon for the Su-27 family, subject to the customer providing funds to continue development. So far no Sukhoi operator has taken the bait.

No hard details of it's performance are known, but looking at it's size and weight, I doubt if it would be effective against fighters as it's just too d*** bulky. Thats not to say that it is of no use. Let a country use it against it opposing AWACS and tankers. It might not do anything for the air situation on the same day, but the loss of these force multipliers will be felt soon after.

Thanks a lot for the accurate answer !
I do feel more comfortable now that I'm sure that there's no longer range AAM in Russian inventory than AA12... which AIM120 C/D can match.

cheers

 

[vivtho]

Thanks a lot for the accurate answer !
I do feel more comfortable now that I'm sure that there's no longer range AAM in Russian inventory than AA12... which AIM120 C/D can match.

cheers

Not really, while the KS-172 has not entered service, there are other Russian missiles already in service that are longer ranged than the AIM-120

• R-27ER / AA-10 Alamo-C. Range upto 130 km.
• R-33 / AA-9 Amos. Range upto 160 km.
• R-37. Improved R-33. Range upto 175 km.
• R-77 / AA-12 Adder. Range upto 90 km.

Of course these are the published ranges, and are usually valid only against large non-maneuvering targets from the head on aspect. But I suspect a similar caveat applies to the published range of the AIM-120 (or any other missile for that matter).

 

[rattmuff]

hm, some confusion has entered here...

It's called S-37 Berkut everywere except in Russia?