Go Back   Defense Technology & Military Forum > Global Defense & Military > Air Force & Aviation
Forgot Password? Join Us! Its's free!

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures

china-UAV-conf-10.jpg

china-UAV-conf-09.jpg

china-UAV-conf-08.jpg

china-UAV-conf-07.jpg
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence







Recent Photos - DefenceTalk Military Gallery





Su-27 in USA!

This is a discussion on Su-27 in USA! within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Here is an update on those two Su-27UB from Pride Aircraft. Sukhoi Su-27UB Flanker aircraft performs engine run-ups and afterburner ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old October 29th, 2009   #1
Senior Member
Major
Haavarla's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,027
Threads:
Su-27 in USA!

Here is an update on those two Su-27UB from Pride Aircraft.

Sukhoi Su-27UB Flanker aircraft performs engine run-ups and afterburner checks in September 2009.

Holy sh*t!
Turn up the speakers on this one

It's almost like i'm standing next to the aircraft.

http://


Thanks

Last edited by Haavarla; November 1st, 2009 at 04:39 AM.
Haavarla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2009   #2
Senior Member
Major
nevidimka's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,002
Threads:
who built this plane? and why is it in US?
nevidimka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2009   #3
Senior Member
Major
Haavarla's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,027
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevidimka View Post
who built this plane? and why is it in US?

Pride Aircraft is an privat company who bought, restorating & modificating two stripped Su-27UB from Ukraine.
As i understand it, these two UB have nothing to do with the US DoD or USAF per say..

But there have been some speculations about the USAF will lease them from time to time for some aggressor or interceptor missions.. However i find it very unlikly.

You can visit them here:

Pride Aircraft: Aircraft Restoration

I think these are the one who will fly them:

The alternative to business as usual

More info here:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=90501




Thanks

Last edited by Haavarla; October 31st, 2009 at 04:35 AM.
Haavarla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2009   #4
Senior Member
Major
Haavarla's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,027
Threads:
Found an interesting marketing point by TAC AIR:

"Additionally, by revamping the traditional decision-metric of cost per flight hour to a new metric of training or test missions per flight hour, greater cost savings can be realized. As an example, business as usual would involve a simple comparison of relative flight hour costs between adversary aircraft. By this metric, the SU-27 would appear to be more expensive than most other aircraft. However, if a customer looks at cost per training intercept or cost per test run, which is what they are really buying, then the SU-27 quickly becomes significantly cheaper because of its unsurpassed fuel payload (e.g., an SU-27 that can perform four supersonic training intercepts in one hour is far cheaper than typical adversary aircraft that have far less range and endurance, and can only perform a single high-speed training run before requiring refueling."

about our company


Thanks

Last edited by Haavarla; November 2nd, 2009 at 02:06 AM.
Haavarla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2009   #5
Grumpy Old Man
General
gf0012-aust's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 14,751
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haavarla View Post
Found an interesting market point by TAC AIR:

"Additionally, by revamping the traditional decision-metric of cost per flight hour to a new metric of training or test missions per flight hour, greater cost savings can be realized. As an example, business as usual would involve a simple comparison of relative flight hour costs between adversary aircraft. By this metric, the SU-27 would appear to be more expensive than most other aircraft. However, if a customer looks at cost per training intercept or cost per test run, which is what they are really buying, then the SU-27 quickly becomes significantly cheaper because of its unsurpassed fuel payload (e.g., an SU-27 that can perform four supersonic training intercepts in one hour is far cheaper than typical adversary aircraft that have far less range and endurance, and can only perform a single high-speed training run before requiring refueling."

about our company


Thanks
There is an obvious issue with using that metric in isolation. the fundamental issue on through life support is the maint and robustness of the components. if the engine has 1/3rd the availability rate of an F404 (for example), then the amount of time in the air relative to fuel is still subjected to wear and tear.

metrics are quite diverse and varied - its why we take so long in determining TLS for aircraft (or for any platform for that matter)

that metric could not be a baseline condition because it can not ignore the basic TLS and sustainment issues.
________________
A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, says:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
http://cofda.wordpress.com/
gf0012-aust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2009   #6
Senior Member
Major
Haavarla's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,027
Threads:
Quote:
gf0012-aust;183718]There is an obvious issue with using that metric in isolation. the fundamental issue on through life support is the maint and robustness of the components. if the engine has 1/3rd the availability rate of an F404 (for example), then the amount of time in the air relative to fuel is still subjected to wear and tear
.

I believe your post support just what they state.
If one look at the capability and mission of choice, there are very few aircraft that can perform longer intercept mission with out having to land to refuel or an mid-flight refuel.
Those UB clearly have that capability.
But i wonder who would pay up for mission like this..?
Its gonna cost lots of buck anyway..

Quote:
metrics are quite diverse and varied - its why we take so long in determining TLS for aircraft (or for any platform for that matter)
Well metrics works, it's just what one choose to put in the equation.
And which requirements put up.

Quote:
that metric could not be a baseline condition because it can not ignore the basic TLS and sustainment issues.
Its not that hard to calculate the metric of those UB, remeber they are not gonna perform under any airforce regulation and doctrine.
Hense they can skip many variables.


Thanks

Last edited by Haavarla; November 2nd, 2009 at 03:00 AM.
Haavarla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2009   #7
Senior Member
Major
Haavarla's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,027
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevidimka View Post
who built this plane? and why is it in US?

I forgot perhaps the most crucial info here, those two Flankers are currently on sales for any qualified byer!

Here is the data sheet:

http://www.prideaircraft.com/SU27-specs-01.pdf

And here you can read what the purpose of the procurement of these two UB:

"Now, a few words about these aircraft. For quite some time, there have been rumors and whispers about these aircraft. We even released some photos of them as they arrived in the USA. This led to much speculation and incorrect reports by aviation press sources.

The aircraft arrived here in a completely de-militarized condition -- all weapons systems and military-related hardware had been previously removed, in full compliance with U.S. and Ukranian laws.

They were not brought here for any military purpose. They were brought here to be privately-owned and operated -- just like every other jet "warbird" in America. Because of the freedoms we enjoy here (as aircraft enthusiasts and "warbird" owners in the U.S. and elsewhere are keenly aware), private individuals and/or aircraft museums have the opportunity to collect and operate almost any sport aircraft they desire.

The Su-27 Flanker, while at first glance a serious piece of hardware (and it is!), is a 4th Generation fighter. It was designed beginning in 1972, and the first prototype flew in 1977. It entered service over 25 years ago, in the mid-1980s. Its abilities are widely known, and variants of it have participated in numerous U.S. military exercises against F-15s, F-16s, F-14s, and F/A-18s.

However, the new 5th Generation F-22 Raptor, and other aircraft now appearing on the scene, have rendered any discussion of "cutting-edge" fighter technology completely superfluous. It may seem harsh to say it, but because the Su-27 and aircraft of its generation are now becoming sport aircraft (warbirds) in the U.S., this is evidence that that technological improvements in fighter aircraft have continued to advance far beyond what was once considered "high-tech" and "leading edge." This is definitely not an indictment of the lovely Sukhoi Su-27. It is, and will remain, an extraordinary aircraft with superior performance. But it is now available to private individuals precisely because of these rapid advancements. We fly them for sport because we can.

Pride Aircraft is very pleased to be the only place you can get one (or two!) We look forward to hearing from qualified buyers."



D*mn.. is wish i had Bill Gates credit card


Thanks
Haavarla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2009   #8
Senior Member
Major
Haavarla's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,027
Threads:
Another update on those Civilian Flankers over at Prideaircraft!

[I"]Flanker N131SU taxied today under its own power. Two taxi checks were accomplished, the first one being a high-speed "takeoff abort" profile with drogue-chute deployment at 130+ KIAS. All systems were nominal.

The second taxi test was to calibrate the aircraft's heading systems and complete the ever-so-important compass correction card."[/I]

You can read more about it here:

Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - Su-27 Flanker Update



Thanks
Haavarla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009   #9
Senior Member
Major
Haavarla's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,027
Threads:
This aircraft is the first civilian-operated Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker in the world. Its first post-restoration flight, seen here, took place on 10 December 2009, in Rockford, Illinois, USA. It is registered N131SU.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Flanker11024-550.jpg (44.1 KB, 1 views)
Haavarla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009   #10
Senior Member
Major
nevidimka's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,002
Threads:
Not happy with this. I dont belive a civilian organization should be allowed to own n operate a current generation military plane from any country that is still in acitve frontline service with many countries, regardless of whether it has been stripped of its military weapons at all. The plane itself is a military technology by itself.

The sale it self should have been illegal. Its just sad the whole thing happened at all.
nevidimka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2009   #11
Defense Enthusiast
Captain
the road runner's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 761
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevidimka View Post
Not happy with this. I dont belive a civilian organization should be allowed to own n operate a current generation military plane from any country that is still in acitve frontline service with many countries, regardless of whether it has been stripped of its military weapons at all. The plane itself is a military technology by itself.

The sale it self should have been illegal. Its just sad the whole thing happened at all.
I would assume that all military equipment would have been removed.
Im all for buying ex military equipment.
It would be even worse if this bird was to be grounded/wrecked.
Sukois belong in the air,glad to see its still there.

Regards
the road runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2009   #12
Senior Member
Major
Haavarla's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,027
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevidimka View Post
Not happy with this. I dont belive a civilian organization should be allowed to own n operate a current generation military plane from any country that is still in acitve frontline service with many countries, regardless of whether it has been stripped of its military weapons at all. The plane itself is a military technology by itself.

The sale it self should have been illegal. Its just sad the whole thing happened at all.

I respect your point, but i do not agree with you nevidimka.
If these jets will only be used in a non military fashion, like airshows etc etc i see nothing wrong with this deal.
But if those jet are evaluated by USAF personel on the sideline, its a whole different case.
That would be wrong(illegal)..

But i do not think this is happening here.

Do you think Ukraine will be in a position to procure Russian weapons systems after this Su-27UB deal with Prideaircraft?
Ukraine and Russia relationship have been deterioating a a steady pace long before this..


Thanks
Haavarla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2009   #13
Defense Enthusiast
Captain
dragonfire's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 716
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haavarla View Post
But if those jet are evaluated by USAF personel on the sideline, its a whole different case.
That would be wrong(illegal)..

But i do not think this is happening here.
Really, I doubt if the aircraft Su-27 is not alreadt evaluated by US Military/ Inteligence. It doesnt neccasarily need to be the same units procured by Pride aircraft but the same platform. Also if i am not wrong US also has Mig-29s. Top Gun has in all probability evaluated them or is using them for aggresor training. Even so i dont see anything wrong in it. If a country can get access to other contmeporary aircraft types then air warfare strategies can be fine tuned
dragonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2009   #14
Grumpy Old Man
General
gf0012-aust's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 14,751
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfire View Post
Really, I doubt if the aircraft Su-27 is not alreadt evaluated by US Military/ Inteligence.
Thee USAF has a specialised unit which evaluates foreign military platforms. They ran a variety of Migs and Sukhois during the cold war under a Red Hat squadron

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfire View Post
It doesnt neccasarily need to be the same units procured by Pride aircraft but the same platform.
At a platform level its the same, going civilian would have had no impact upon extant US knowledge

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfire View Post
Also if i am not wrong US also has Mig-29s. Top Gun has in all probability evaluated them or is using them for aggresor training.
It's been a long term view that the USAF had a pair of Su-27's out in desert country for years. In fact they were supposed to have been acquired 6 years ago.

They had 28 Mig 29's. A USAF colleague of mine had one of them static parked outside his office for a few years. They were not used for aggressor training. The USAF and allies did train against the ex East German Mig29's that transferred into the German Air Force when the two germany merged. The ex GDR Mig29's were gifted to Poland for the princely sum of 1 Euro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfire View Post
Even so i dont see anything wrong in it. If a country can get access to other contmeporary aircraft types then air warfare strategies can be fine tuned
It's been happening for over 95 years. This is not new. The USAF had an amazing collection of Soviet aircraft even during the cold war.
________________
A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, says:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
http://cofda.wordpress.com/
gf0012-aust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2009   #15
Defense Enthusiast
Captain
dragonfire's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 716
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
Thee USAF has a specialised unit which evaluates foreign military platforms. They ran a variety of Migs and Sukhois during the cold war under a Red Hat squadron



At a platform level its the same, going civilian would have had no impact upon extant US knowledge



It's been a long term view that the USAF had a pair of Su-27's out in desert country for years. In fact they were supposed to have been acquired 6 years ago.

They had 28 Mig 29's. A USAF colleague of mine had one of them static parked outside his office for a few years. They were not used for aggressor training. The USAF and allies did train against the ex East German Mig29's that transferred into the German Air Force when the two germany merged. The ex GDR Mig29's were gifted to Poland for the princely sum of 1 Euro.



It's been happening for over 95 years. This is not new. The USAF had an amazing collection of Soviet aircraft even during the cold war.
We are basicaly on the same page

And IIRC some Moldovan Migs were also procured by the US

I guess next on the wish list of the US would be Su-30s (unless they have already done some close inspections already), J-10 and JF-17, the Su-35, Mig-35 and the underdevelopment 5th Gen Indo-Russiann fighters
dragonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20 AM.