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Singapore Air Force - Why so strong?

This is a discussion on Singapore Air Force - Why so strong? within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; The real reason why Singapore have got such a strong armed forces is because Indonesia have never formally renounced in ...


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Old January 21st, 2012   #31
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The real reason why Singapore have got such a strong armed forces is because Indonesia have never formally renounced in the Indonesian paliament Sukarno's declaration that Singapore and Malaysia is part of Indonesia.

Until today, the Indonesians still look north and thinks that both Malaysia and Singapore is part of Indonesia.
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Old January 21st, 2012   #32
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The real reason why Singapore have got such a strong armed forces is because Indonesia have never formally renounced in the Indonesian paliament Sukarno's declaration that Singapore and Malaysia is part of Indonesia.
Not sure about that but not only Indonesia but the Philippines was also against the formation of Malaysia. President Macapagal and Sukarno were keen on a loose federation of all 3 countries called MAPHLINDO but as mentioned in the previous posts, Indonesia is part of but NOT the only reason why Singapore has a strong armed forces and why it ensures it has a technological edge. It has been suggested that the reason Singapore bought the Iron Dome is because of concerns that a certain country [which publicly expressed an interest in Scuds in the early 1990's] might acquire in the future ballistic missiles and not because, as widely speculated in various forums, because Malaysia has 36 ASTROS MLRS.

Last edited by STURM; January 21st, 2012 at 08:20 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2012   #33
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Indonesian & Philippines objections to the formation of Malaysia were based mostly on their (mutually incompatible, because overlapping) wishes to grab or dominate all of Sabah, Sarawak & Brunei. I'm not aware of Sukarno ever laying claim to West Malaysia, though I stand ready to be corrected if anyone can point me to his words.

The Philippines claimed Sabah. Indonesia never really formulated a public policy, saying it didn't lay claim to any of the territory but calling it Kalimantan Utara, in line with the names of the Indonesian provinces in the rest of Borneo. Perhaps Sukarno hoped that a notionally independent North Borneo, or separate Sarawak, Brunei, & Sabah, could be dominated & eventually absorbed by Indonesia.

"Maphilindo" was seen as a loose association of states, based on the concept of a Malay race.
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Old January 21st, 2012   #34
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Indonesian & Philippines objections to the formation of Malaysia were based mostly on their (mutually incompatible, because overlapping) wishes to grab or dominate all of Sabah, Sarawak & Brunei. I'm not aware of Sukarno ever laying claim to West Malaysia, though I stand ready to be corrected if anyone can point me to his words.
The Philippines main objection to the formation of Malaysia was over its claim to Sabah, which was once part of the Sulu Sultanate. Whilst the Philippines is mostly quiet about it's claim at the moment, in the 1960's and 1970's there was serious concern in Malaysia about what Manila might do. A news leak in 1968 about guerillas being trained in a camp in Luzon by PA special forces, for infiltration to Sabah didn't help bilateral relations and PAF Sabres were also routinely overflying into East Malaysian airspace - with the Malaysians being able to do nothing about it except deploy a battery of Bofors. Indonesia's main objection was because of Sukarno's claim that a future Malaysian Federation was just another British imperialism attempt and maintaining a hold on its former colonies and because Indonesia, whilst told of the planned federation, was not consulted.

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Old January 21st, 2012   #35
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Not sure about that but not only Indonesia but the Philippines was also against the formation of Malaysia. President Macapagal and Sukarno were keen on a loose federation of all 3 countries called MAPHLINDO but as mentioned in the previous posts, Indonesia is part of but NOT the only reason why Singapore has a strong armed forces and why it ensures it has a technological edge. It has been suggested that the reason Singapore bought the Iron Dome is because of concerns that a certain country [which publicly expressed an interest in Scuds in the early 1990's] might acquire in the future ballistic missiles and not because, as widely speculated in various forums, because Malaysia has 36 ASTROS MLRS.
Can Iron Dome hit artillery shells and mortars ? Because that's all Malaysia will need to hit Singapore especially the air bases.
I think Singapore also has many A4s in storage which can still fly.
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Old January 22nd, 2012   #36
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Can Iron Dome hit artillery shells and mortars ? Because that's all Malaysia will need to hit Singapore especially the air bases.
As you're no doubt aware, shutting down air bases is an extremely difficult thing to do, especially when those bases have contingency plans that factor in such an eventuality. Singapore anticipates that if the balloon goes up, any foe will do all it can to shut down the RSAF's air bases and as a result have made adequate preparations to deal with such an eventuality, including having adequate dispersals, airfield recovery/reconstruction teams, the ability to launch aircraft from certain roads, etc. True, most if not all of Singapore is within artillery range from the mainland, but Malaysia only operates a regiment of 155mm guns, the bulk of it's artillery are short range 105mm guns, a legacy of it's army's counter insurgency days.

Then again, Malaysia's main focus is on other areas, such as the Ambalat area where it has a dispute with Indonesia and it's clams in the Spratleys, not Singapore .

Last edited by STURM; January 22nd, 2012 at 07:58 AM.
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Old January 22nd, 2012   #37
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Originally Posted by swerve View Post
Indonesian & Philippines objections to the formation of Malaysia were based mostly on their (mutually incompatible, because overlapping) wishes to grab or dominate all of Sabah, Sarawak & Brunei. I'm not aware of Sukarno ever laying claim to West Malaysia, though I stand ready to be corrected if anyone can point me to his words.
Soekarno never claim any Malaysian teritory. However he did not want to have land border with Malaysia, which he believes was just another ploy by British/Commonwealth collonialism to destabilised Indonesian Borneo in the future and his Indonesian Revolutionary movement, which he intend to spread scross the region and the rest of Third world as counter ballance againts Western Imperialism/Capitalism.

I never be a Soerkarnois, or supporter of his movement until now. Never believe on his revolutionary ideas, but one thing is clear. He's not an expantionist (which some western analyst tend to potrait him on his later days in power), but he's a Revolutioner, just like Castro.

What he's done with his subversive operations in Malaysian Peninsula and Singapore was no-more than effort to divide Malaysian public and administration plus British/Commonwelth forces as much as possible, thus will provide enough momentum for Sabah/Sarawak revolutionaries (with Indonesia help) to provide significant Armed challanges thus in the end provide enough incentive to the British to let Borneo Malaysia to secede and become Independent in order to protect more economically valuable Malaysian Peninsula and Singapore.

That's his basic believe and based on his thinking during 'konfrontasi' era. He's dream for Revolutionary Indonesia and Revolutionary Third World power, lead to economic bancruptcy and 'help' by some gross miscalculation by the communist, a chances that US waited so long to topple him by supporting more moderat elements in the Army.

In short, Soekarno was morethan happy for Independent Sabah and Sarawak, as long as it's control by a 'revolutionary' power which're anti Bristish/Commonwealth Imperialism, and Western Malaysia.
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Old May 30th, 2012   #38
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Good Morning,

While I was wondering around the world's air forces in wikipedia this morning ( yes I know I should be working at the office) I began to read about Singapore Air Force.

When I saw that it had 24 F-15SGs, 70+ F16 Block 50s and older but never the less flying 40+ F5s ( total of around 140 combat aircraft) I realized it had a really big air power.

Comparing with the neighbours Malaysia has 18 Su-30s, 8 F/A-18s, 18 F-5s, 14 Mig-29s and 13 BAE Hawks,

Where as Indonesia has 29 BAE Hawks, 24 F-16s, 15 F-5s, 5 Su-27s and 5 Su-30s

Further neighbours,

Vietnam has 15 Su-27s, 24 Su-30s, 124 Mig-21s, 53 Su-22s

Thailand - 55 F-16s, 12 JAS-39s, 29 F-5s

I know strategically Singapore is in a very critical place, a big portion of the worlds shipping crosses at Malacca Straits but I don't much about the Singapores relations with its neighbours or its geopolitic position in the region. I would be very happy if someone tells me the reasons for investing so much at their Air Force.

( all of the plane number references are taken from Wikipedia)
Vietnam currently has nearly 50 of Su-27s. Not 15 Su-27 like you said.
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Old May 30th, 2012   #39
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Vietnam currently has nearly 50 of Su-27s. Not 15 Su-27 like you said.
All the information I quoted at the beginning of the post is from Wikipedia which gives a general sense rather than an accurate information.

At the time I posted, for Vietnam's People Air Force, it listed 15 Su-27s and 24 Su-30s and now it lists 20 Su-27s and 24 Su-30,

when you say 50 Su-27s are you also including Su-30 or is it in addition to 24 Su-30s?

Also, although a bit late, thank you for everyones reply to this post, it gave me a good overall image of the region, their relationships and their air forces status, thank you
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Old May 30th, 2012   #40
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I'm more interested to know what source Katiusha is using. That seems to be key to determining the accuracy of his claim.
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Old May 30th, 2012   #41
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I'm more interested to know what source Katiusha is using. That seems to be key to determining the accuracy of his claim.
Yap.
And maybe someone can give more accurate data since almost all the data here are more than 2 years old.
For instance, Indonesia already sign contract 3 sq or maybe more, including 1 sq of UAV that will based on Kalimantan.

One question always in my mind, what if an attack to Singapore with pounding and shelling Singapore with artillery and missile? And disabling radar, runway and another important infrastructure. Singapore only have small landmass to hit.
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Old May 30th, 2012   #42
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Some friendly advice.

Before everyone starts jumping in with "what ifs" it would be useful to do some research about Singaporean capabilities and force philosophy.... and that includes the quality of their INT ...

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Old May 30th, 2012   #43
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Originally Posted by Lostfleet View Post
All the information I quoted at the beginning of the post is from Wikipedia which gives a general sense rather than an accurate information.

At the time I posted, for Vietnam's People Air Force, it listed 15 Su-27s and 24 Su-30s and now it lists 20 Su-27s and 24 Su-30,

when you say 50 Su-27s are you also including Su-30 or is it in addition to 24 Su-30s?

Also, although a bit late, thank you for everyones reply to this post, it gave me a good overall image of the region, their relationships and their air forces status, thank you
Thanks for response. No, I didn't include Vietnam's Su-30MK2V. In fact, no-one knows for sure how many Su-30 Vietnam currently has because Vietnam tries to keep it in secret. Some sources say Vietnam has 23 (or 24) Su-30MK2V based on the contract between Vietnam and Russia, but other sources say Vietnam has 36 Su-30MK2V (Wiki as well).
Anyways, the number of 'nearly 50' that I stated previously is applied to Su-27 only.
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Old May 30th, 2012
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Old June 21st, 2012   #44
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Soekarno never claim any Malaysian teritory. However he did not want to have land border with Malaysia, which he believes was just another ploy by British/Commonwealth collonialism to destabilised Indonesian Borneo in the future and his Indonesian Revolutionary movement, which he intend to spread scross the region and the rest of Third world as counter ballance againts Western Imperialism/Capitalism.

I never be a Soerkarnois, or supporter of his movement until now. Never believe on his revolutionary ideas, but one thing is clear. He's not an expantionist (which some western analyst tend to potrait him on his later days in power), but he's a Revolutioner, just like Castro.

What he's done with his subversive operations in Malaysian Peninsula and Singapore was no-more than effort to divide Malaysian public and administration plus British/Commonwelth forces as much as possible, thus will provide enough momentum for Sabah/Sarawak revolutionaries (with Indonesia help) to provide significant Armed challanges thus in the end provide enough incentive to the British to let Borneo Malaysia to secede and become Independent in order to protect more economically valuable Malaysian Peninsula and Singapore.

That's his basic believe and based on his thinking during 'konfrontasi' era. He's dream for Revolutionary Indonesia and Revolutionary Third World power, lead to economic bancruptcy and 'help' by some gross miscalculation by the communist, a chances that US waited so long to topple him by supporting more moderat elements in the Army.

In short, Soekarno was morethan happy for Independent Sabah and Sarawak, as long as it's control by a 'revolutionary' power which're anti Bristish/Commonwealth Imperialism, and Western Malaysia.
This is the best answer. Also, after the Cold War era and especially today, Indonesia take no hostile view on Malaysia. And as been started by some before, Indonesia never see Singapore as a threat nor should be part of Indonesia. In general, although both Indonesian and Malaysian have more similarities in culture and religion, most of Indonesians prefer Singapore to Malaysia in many aspects.
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Old June 22nd, 2012   #45
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A massive and sustained SRBM/MLRS and artillery barrage should render Singapore's air superiority obsolete in double quick time. Then overwhelm their land based defences with a much larger force. Job done.
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