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S.Korea, Indonesia to develop 4.5 gen. fighter aircraft F-33

This is a discussion on S.Korea, Indonesia to develop 4.5 gen. fighter aircraft F-33 within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; KFX/IFX jet fighter to be build by Indonesia and South Korea - UPI.com That's interesting. This I think will be ...


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Old March 12th, 2013   #1
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S.Korea, Indonesia to develop 4.5 gen. fighter aircraft F-33

KFX/IFX jet fighter to be build by Indonesia and South Korea - UPI.com

That's interesting. This I think will be the first Asian 4.5 gen fighter, developed to rival the likes of Eurofighter and Rafale. It will be designated the F-33 when production begins.

South Korea has the technology and experience with operating and maintaining Western fighter aircraft, while Indonesia is contributing 20 % of the cost and 30 Engineers. SK is also looking for collaoration with several Western defense firms.
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Old March 12th, 2013   #2
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Recent news suggest that the SK's postponed development till late 2013 up to early 2014 due to the elections. Plus the FX-III program is hampering the defense budget for the KF-X.

sources:
Korea Hentikan Pendanaan KFX untuk 2013

Korean Stop Funding KFX for 2013, What are the implications for Indonesia?

http://www.nzweek.com/world/indonesi...fficial-51749/
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Old March 12th, 2013   #3
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Yeah I never knew what to make of this project.

Do you feel Indonesia feels pressured by Australia's incoming F-35's?

Seams like a lot of risk to design something that will probably only sit on par with existing models already out in the market place. I have this impression of a rather hap hazard approach to defence procurement from Indonesia. A little bit of this, a little bit of that, they currently field a range of fast jets from F-16's to Sukhoi's to F5's, a lot of them not very old. If it were me I'd just sit on or bulk up the F-16's or Sukhoi's until an obviously superior option presented itself (a true 5th gen). Maybe that's just me.
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Old March 12th, 2013   #4
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Understand that a strong sense of Nationalism is present in the government and population. When given the option to manufacture their own equipment, regardless of capabilities, they would usually put it to the top of their procurement list. Localized manufacturing also gives them an advantage of bypassing embargoes, thus letting them suppress any armed conflicts as they please.
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Old March 12th, 2013   #5
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What chances are Indonesia on joining the JSF (F-35) project?
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Old March 12th, 2013   #6
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What chances are Indonesia on joining the JSF (F-35) project?
Without wishing to upset anybody: nil.

The project is 3-4 years away from delivering operational aircraft. All the design work is done, the planned workshare is largely allocated and the production process is well on the way (just over 100 airframes exist or are already in production)

As to buying JSF, well I don't necessarily see that Indonesia would be excluded from that, but I don't see any realistic proposition that Indonesia would be able to afford it...
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Old March 12th, 2013   #7
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As to buying JSF, well I don't necessarily see that Indonesia would be excluded from that, but I don't see any realistic proposition that Indonesia would be able to afford it...
According to LM the F-35 should be affordable, and in the F-16 price range.

Does the above mean that you don't believe LM's propaganda when it comes to cost...?
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Old March 12th, 2013   #8
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Originally Posted by ADMk2 View Post
Without wishing to upset anybody: nil.

The project is 3-4 years away from delivering operational aircraft. All the design work is done, the planned workshare is largely allocated and the production process is well on the way (just over 100 airframes exist or are already in production)

As to buying JSF, well I don't necessarily see that Indonesia would be excluded from that, but I don't see any realistic proposition that Indonesia would be able to afford it...
At the moment 'no'. However if the economy growth as it is, after 2020, there will be enough budget to do that. LM already hinted Indonesia is one of potential JSF users after 2020, simply because they see the potential after 2020.

Personally, I see Russian T-50 have more prospect being procured by Indonesia then JSF. However like ROK, the bulk of the fleet after 2020+ will consists on KFX/IFX program, 'if' the program goes as plan.

LM told any potential JSF customers (which basically they aimed on existing F-16 users), that by 2020+ the procurement cost of F-35 will be relatively in 'fixed index price' similar with current F-16 block 52.

In other word LM seems incline that eventhough in dollar term it will be much higher than current F-16 block 50+, however by 2020+ the procurement costs will be as affordable with current procurement costs of F-16 block 50+.
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Old March 12th, 2013   #9
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Recent news suggest that the SK's postponed development till late 2013 up to early 2014 due to the elections. Plus the FX-III program is hampering the defense budget for the KF-X.

sources:
Korea Hentikan Pendanaan KFX untuk 2013

Korean Stop Funding KFX for 2013, What are the implications for Indonesia?

Indonesia, S. Korea postpone cooperation on fighter jet development: official - NZweek
The first stage of the project already finish, the second stage being postponed with officiall statement ROK now more concentrating on FX-III, and hoping will got ToT from the project that will be used on KFX/IFX. However with Indonesian present administrations will terminated on 2014, I do more incline to believe the ROK put much factor also on whose will come put as Indonesia next administrations on 2014.
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Old March 13th, 2013   #10
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Agreed, hopefully it won't end up like the Soeharto case and we end up buying something that doesn't fully suit our needs. Honestly I don't know what to make of the project, so far our aviation industry has only had experience in the tactical transport and commercial aviation sector. A 4.5th jet, especially if we plan on staying in the project even up till the Block 1-3 stages which would make it on par with 5th gen fighters, is a huge leap forward, and not in the good sense of the term.
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Old March 13th, 2013   #11
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Agreed, hopefully it won't end up like the Soeharto case and we end up buying something that doesn't fully suit our needs. Honestly I don't know what to make of the project, so far our aviation industry has only had experience in the tactical transport and commercial aviation sector. A 4.5th jet, especially if we plan on staying in the project even up till the Block 1-3 stages which would make it on par with 5th gen fighters, is a huge leap forward, and not in the good sense of the term.
How will a 4th gen fighter with block 1 - 3 be on par with 5th gen fighter? Keep in mind that 5th gen fighters will also undergo upgrades over their life
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Old March 13th, 2013   #12
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Keep in mind I said 4.5th Gen at first, Koreans plan to redesign them in 3 Blocks after a design is picked to achieve levels and capabilities currently in the F-35 an F-22, it either means that they want the KF-X to become a 4.5th stealth fighter in the long run or take steps to develop it to become a 5th gen. If the Koreans do get the F-35, chances are they're going to implement things on to the KF-X that the Koreans see as an improvement.

I am aware that they have previously said that they didn't want it to be a 5th gen, but why would you make plans to upgrade and redesign them to the capabilities of a 5th gen if they wanted it to be a 4.5th gen? How they are going to do it is beyond me, but since currently I haven't found information that says otherwise, I'd think its their current goal, albeit secretly.

As I said before, I don't know what to think of this project, it has its pros and cons but it seems very unviable. unless other nations join in, chances are its going to be a big flop...

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....p23-548417.xml
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Old March 13th, 2013   #13
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Koreans has no history of developing a fighter PERIOD.
The only previous history is developing an advance trainer that is designed by Lockheed Martin(T-50).
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Old March 13th, 2013   #14
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According to LM the F-35 should be affordable, and in the F-16 price range.

Does the above mean that you don't believe LM's propaganda when it comes to cost...?
And have Indonesia been able to afford new F-16's? No.

Quit being a smart arse.
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Old March 13th, 2013   #15
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And have Indonesia been able to afford new F-16's? No.
Why should they buy new F-16 when they get slightly used for free? Anyway I believe they need to pay for the upgrade. And they definitely need to pay for the operating costs, which in the long run constitutes the main costs of having fighter aircraft.

In any case; if you insist that they cannot afford new F-16 then does that mean that you

a) believe they cannot afford to join the development of a new "4.5 gen fighter", or

b) believe that the new fighter will be much cheaper than a new F-16, since you have already established that they cannot afford new F-16.

Quote:
Quit being a smart arse.
Careful or I report you to the Moderators...

Indonesia's (nominal) GDP currently ranks number 16 in the world; however more importantly there is significant growth.

Quote:
Indonesia's economic outlook remains positive next year, thanks to a steady domestic consumption, a robust investment climate and the accelerated infrastructure development, media reported here on Wednesday.

Barclays Research predicts that Indonesia's economy, the biggest in Southeast Asia, will expand 6.3 percent in 2013, the same pace as this year's projected growth. Last year it grew 6.5 percent, the fastest pace since 1996.

Among the 10 emerging Asian nations covered by Barclays Research, the country will have the third-fastest economic growth after China and India next year.
Indonesia's economic growth likely to remain strong in 2013 - Globaltimes.cn
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