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-   -   Russian Helo Exports (http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/russian-helo-exports-12268/)

Feanor November 4th, 2012 08:45 PM

Russian Helo Exports
 
This is a thread for all news regarding Russian exports of helos.

I made this thread, after running across a reference to deliveries of 2 Ansat helos to Laos. It was strange, because I couldn't find other sources to back it. Has anyone else come across anything? The deal was made in 2009. The contract is mentioned in multiple sources, and deliveries were supposedly planned in 2009, along with deliveries to Kazakhstan (which I also can't find references to).

Here's the source (in Russian): ЦАМТО / Новости / Дмитрий Медведев обсудит в Лаосе широкий спектр вопросов двустороннего сотрудничества, в том числе в сфере ВТС

They bought 12 Mi-17s in the 90s, which makes perfect sense, but the Ansat purchase seems very strange.

Haavarla April 2nd, 2013 02:34 PM

Russia will deliver 40 Mi-28N helicopter to Iraq

Peru will purchase 24 Mi-171 helicopters


Can anyone confirm these deals?

Feanor April 2nd, 2013 06:15 PM

Russian sources confirm both. DefenseIndustryDaily confirms the Peru contract.

Haavarla April 2nd, 2013 10:00 PM

Well, this is something of an unexpected move.
Yes Iraq bought weapons from SU before, but i thought there was greater chance for Cobra or some other Western choppers.. Apache perhaps..

Was there ever a Tender on this? Did Apache prove too costly?

Whats next then, a Mig-29 deal?

Feanor April 3rd, 2013 04:09 AM

There was a 4.2 bln USD contract for pantsyrs, Mi-28N, and possibly MiG-29M.

Haavarla April 3rd, 2013 05:24 AM

Thinking about this deal, what most surprising is that the Mi-28N is not battle proven or matured like other attack helios.
So why did Iraq go for such a deal without any Tender then?

Is it the sum of the total package and cost related, or is this political motivated?

gf0012-aust April 3rd, 2013 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haavarla (Post 261491)
Thinking about this deal, what most surprising is that the Mi-28N is not battle proven or matured like other attack helios.
So why did Iraq go for such a deal without any Tender then?

Is it the sum of the total package and cost related, or is this political motivated?

The US has actually purchased refurbed russian helo's for the Iraqis over the last few years. They've done so because of the existing skillset base, and the fact that they (the US) had a whole pile of russian gear already in stock.

US companires have refurbed and maintained their russian gear to date

It would be a natural progression in the logistics chain to stay with russian gear - so not surprising

Haavarla April 3rd, 2013 05:43 AM

Makes sence. But isn't there a huge difference in those Mi-8/171 and the Mi-28N in systems and complexity.

Its not USAF that will train Iraq pilots and service these units, but Russia this time.
And it would require a support deal in the longer run as well, if its not included in this deal.

Wonder how Russia care about deliver their latest toys right in the hand of "US observers"..

gf0012-aust April 3rd, 2013 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haavarla (Post 261496)
Makes sence. But isn't there a huge difference in those Mi-8/171 and the Mi-28N in systems and complexity.

Its not USAF that will train Iraq pilots and service these units, but Russia this time.
And it would require a support deal in the longer run as well, if its not included in this deal.

Wonder how Russia care about deliver their latest toys right in the hand of "US observers"..


USAF had no involvement on prev sales and support

they were all serviced by private US contractors (as was pilot training)

Gremlin29 April 3rd, 2013 10:28 AM

Believe it or not, Iraq did get USAF pilot support for training which came to conclusion in 2010. Maintenance has continued to be performed by US contractors. I will not be surprised when they end up with additional US platforms that have not been announced.

If and when they get Mi 28's I would not expect the OR rate to be very high, not specifically the fault of the airframe.

gf0012-aust April 3rd, 2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gremlin29 (Post 261513)
Believe it or not, Iraq did get USAF pilot support for training which came to conclusion in 2010. Maintenance has continued to be performed by US contractors. I will not be surprised when they end up with additional US platforms that have not been announced.

If and when they get Mi 28's I would not expect the OR rate to be very high, not specifically the fault of the airframe.

I was only aware of the Contractors - so news to me on the USAF trg role :)

I was under the impression that the Iraqs were about to inherit some US gear over the next 2 years,

I know we are leaving some material with them and assumed that others in the coalition will be as well.

Feanor April 4th, 2013 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haavarla (Post 261496)
Makes sence. But isn't there a huge difference in those Mi-8/171 and the Mi-28N in systems and complexity.

There is a notable amount of commonality in terms of onboard equipment, and spares, between advanced Mi-17s, and Mi-28N/Mi-35M. More then one would expect. There's also the interchangeable munitions.

Just an minor correction. The US has purchased new built Mi-17 helos, not refurbs.

Also, the Peru deal hasn't actually gone through yet. The military has officially requested the money from the finance ministry, but as I understand no contract has been signed. Also, CAST confirms the sale. Pilot training and weapons are included in the contract which is ~480 million USD. This will bring their total numbers to 30 helos, all of the Mi-171Sh variant.

bmpd -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gremlin29 (Post 261513)
If and when they get Mi 28's I would not expect the OR rate to be very high, not specifically the fault of the airframe.

Could you elaborate? Russian companies are traditionally bad at post sale support, but Rosvertol seems to be pretty good about it.

nevidimka April 4th, 2013 03:53 AM

He means that when they get the new russian gear, its gonna be sitting on the ground on maintenance a lot longer than they would be flying.

Btw, Its quite a surprise iraq is going for the latest russian attack helicopters, but still is an upgrade over the old hind's, with its latest technology, and looks like a substantial international sale for the Havoc's.

Btw, what russian gear do US companies have and service in iraq? I would think that it would be maintained by iraqi who has the know how or russian companies themselves?

And about the Mig29, if this 1 goes through, does it mean iraq wont be getting any american fighters to form the front line of their air force?

With all the oil money I suspect price is a problem for them right?

the road runner April 4th, 2013 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevidimka (Post 261569)
And about the Mig29, if this 1 goes through, does it mean iraq wont be getting any american fighters to form the front line of their air force

Off topic..
Iraq is getting its first F-16 in 2014. It has ordered 36 F-16

Iraq Obtains F-16 Jets Despite Kurdish Opposition - IKJ News

L-3 is providing 2 x F-16 flight sims to train Iraq pilots

F-16 | Iraq Business News

gf0012-aust April 4th, 2013 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevidimka (Post 261569)

Btw, what russian gear do US companies have and service in iraq? I would think that it would be maintained by iraqi who has the know how or russian companies themselves?

american companies have been rebuilding and refurbing Mil8 Mil17's that were seized during GW1 and GW2 and then handed back

AFAIK there have been some avionics upgrades made to some to enable them to talk to euro installed ground systems


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