Royal Saudi Air Force

[SNIPER-15]

This pictures for Royal Saudi Air Force ......

The Royal Suadi Air Force is the best in arabian world .......

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Brief history
That religion is very important in Saudi Arabia is also reflected in the Royal Saudi Armed Forces fin flashes which represent the legend "La Illaha Illa Allah wa Muhammad Ursul Allah" (There is no god but God and Mohammed in his prophet) written in Arabic writing that needs to be read from right to left.

Despite the fact that it is very hard to visit Saudi Arabia for Westerners, the Saudi forces are equipped with mainly western hardware. Main suppliers are the United States of America and the United Kingdom. When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, the Saudis asked the USA to send troops to defend the kingdom and there has been a US presence in Saudi Arabia since. Both the UK (With BAE Systems as one of the prime contractors) and the US are involved in training programs conducted in Saudi Arabia.

For Middle Eastern standards the armed forces of Saudi Arabia are relatively small. Its strength however is derived from advanced technology and not from numerical superiority. This is why the armed forces are under a continuing modernization program. The backbone of the fighter force is formed by 134 Tornados from which a batch of 48 Tornado IDS was ordered in 1993 under the al-Yamamah II program and 72 F-15S aircraft delivered from the mid-90s that operate besides the 41 F-15C/D aircraft delivered in the early 90s. Aircraft training is executed on the Pilatus PC-9, BAe Hawk, Boeing F-15D Eagle and the Northrop F-5F Tiger II. Like in many other countries the C-130 is the mainstay of the Transport fleet and the Hercules is assisted by CASA CN-235s. Reconnaissance is performed by 17sq with their RF-5E and the Boeing E-3A is the Airborne Early Warning platform operated by 18sq.

The VIP support fleet of the Al-Saud family consists of a wide variety of civil registered aircraft such as the Boeing B707, B737 and B747, Lockheed Tri-Stars, MD11s and G1159A as well as Lockheed L-100-30. The HZ- prefix used in the civilian registrations of these aircraft derived from the former name of the territory (HejaZ)

The RSAF units are divided into Wings that are dispersed across the seven air bases. They are:

RSAF Wing 1 at ?
RSAF Wing 2 at Taif
RSAF Wing 3 at Dharan
RSAF Wing 4 at Riyadh
RSAF Wing 5 at Khamis Mushayt
RSAF Wing 6 at Al Karj
RSAF Wing 7 at Tabuk
RSAF Wing 8 at Jeddah
RSAF Wing 11 at Dharan


the surce of text from :http://www.scramble.nl/sa.htm

 

[SNIPER-15]

Royal Saudi Air Force-Part 2

Part 2 .........

 

[Grand Danois]

Hi Sniper-15 and welcome to DT.

You should provide some of your thoughts on the Royal Saudi AF. Equipment, doctrine, whatever. What you want to discuss. Something that relates to the information you copy/pasted from scramble.nl.

Posting the info alone is hardly a basis for any discussion.

Cheers

Btw, merged the threads.

 

[contedicavour]

For me the key question is : are the Saudis starting to be autonomous in training, maintenance, or even simply piloting their jets ?
One thing is buying the best jets, another is being able to use them appropriately.

cheers

 

[ren0312]

OK some questions, even if assuming it faces a threat from Iran, at 10 per cent of GDP, is not Saudi Arabia still spending way too much on defense, even with all the oil wealth and all, and where does Saudi Arabia plan to get the money to spend on its armed forces when either the oil runs out, or the price of oil in the world market drops unexpectedly, as for its air force, I think it will be better served by having a single type of airplane, instead of having numerous types of fighter aircraft from different countries, which can make maintenance very hard.

 

[FSMonster]

The Saudis are completely impotent to be of any use in a conflict. They got tons of weaponry but politically they're infants still suckling on American teat. They seem to have realized they bought boatloads of US weapons in the 90's for nothing but to increase their dependancy.
Of course, they're welcome to join Bush's 'coalition of the willing' and fight for the USA interestests. Anything else and a quick signal from a satelite turns off radars and flight computers in all their F-15's.

It would appear that the less oil a country has the more technologically advanced and independent it gets. Naturally, this is not a rule, but looking at Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, even Iran, makes me shake my head and wonder.

The same goes for some other (especially Gulf) countries which on surface appear to have large cutting-edge fleets of ships, planes, tanks. In reality, they can only use them to fight for someone else and spend loads of cash on spares and maintenance. In a way, they're just leasing them while having a false sense of security.

The only effective use they'd be allowed to is against Iran. Arab countries don't need a permission to use Western weapons if they want to fight each other or Iran.

Saudis can go and purchase Eurofighter as the means of diversifying their military hardware vendors and saving, while at it, large state-sponsored aerospace industry of EU.
If they were a little smarter they could've used their oil cash and buy knowledge and technologies. Buy licenses, invest into research, hire foreign experts, etc. Since 1990 they could've achieved at least some indigenous degree and self-reliance.
Even, I repeat, even if it costs more than buying finished solutions! You can't put a price tag on the technological know-how.

 

[Scorpius]

my thoughts exactly.what will happen when oil runs out?
they are retiring their Tornadoes..aren't they?why?they still seem good enough to me,maybe for air defence roles they could be useful...dunno.

are they getting the Typhoons?or is it stalled like the other military purchases?

 

[swerve]

my thoughts exactly.what will happen when oil runs out?
they are retiring their Tornadoes..aren't they?why?they still seem good enough to me,maybe for air defence roles they could be useful...dunno.

are they getting the Typhoons?or is it stalled like the other military purchases?

The Tornados are getting old. The ADVs are running out of airframe hours quite quickly, & are most in need of replacement. They will be the first to be replaced by Typhoon. The IDS lot have enough life left to justify an upgrade, & are getting one. There are 3 of them in the UK for development of the upgrade, & they've been photographed carrying Storm Shadow, so I think we can safely say that integrating it is part of the upgrade.

 

[swerve]

... as for its air force, I think it will be better served by having a single type of airplane, instead of having numerous types of fighter aircraft from different countries, which can make maintenance very hard.

Saudi Arabia sees diversification of suppliers as an insurance policy.

 

[umair]

I have an intererting anecdote about the mindset/working of the RSAF. Will post it later tonight as am @ work & my cellphone's browser only allows posts< 512 characters

 

[Rich]

Saudi Arabia sees diversification of suppliers as an insurance policy.

The Saudis have always had an interest in special weapons, most of all nuclear weapons. It was they who funded Saddam's nuclear program , and, a related ballistic missile program in Brazil. It was the Saudis who would have been the real fathers of Saddam's bomb, and in their figuring their own eventual bomb. We still might see an eventual Saudi nuclear weapon and the Saudis can probably call themselves "Uncles" of Pakistan's bombs since they helped finance that program as well.

That's the real reason they have diversified their arms purchases. They know by Law America would cease selling them weapons if they ever made their own bomb. http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_40a.html http://washingtontimes.com/world/20031021-112804-8451r.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/saudi/index.html
http://www.sipri.org/contents/expcon/cnsc1sau.html

http://www.forbes.com/finance/feeds/afx/2006/03/28/afx2629000.html

 

[metro]

Saudi Arabia sees diversification of suppliers as an insurance policy.

the saudis have an insurance policy, the royal family owns a kingdom in every country.

From Europe:in 2006 the saudis agreed to buy up to 72 eurofighters/typhoons last year for $10B
and yeah, they're upgrading 80 tornados, advanced american technology gets transfered in that deal.

From the US: In 2006 the saudis spent $10B mainly on our main battle tank, various combat vehicles, upgrades for severeral things including aircraft systems and we're delivering more/new pac-3s.

as for the last few weeks, the "stall" in military sales to the saudis is a diferent deal and has a lot less to do with israeli objections, and a whole lot more to do with DoD objections to new saudi "demands." they will purchase up to $10B worth of Military Equipment, most of which will be F-15s and F-16s. however, the saudis have decided to give us (US) an ultimatum, they will only make the prchases as long as we place NO RESTRICTIONS on the very latest F-15s, F-16s, new advanced air to ground weapons and "black box" technlogy for platform upgrades. in 2005, the saudis decided to violate the our export terms with them when the RSAF decided to base F-15Es in Tabuk.

so, why do the saudis all of a sudden want a Deep Strike capabilties? the ability to conduct strikes out over the water? do they have plans for our Navy? we haven't given any arab state, straight off the line f15s/16s before. and with saudi arabia not being as stable as we'd like (the same with some GCCs), if the kindom(s) falls to "rogue islamic elements," our carriers in the Gulf, Indian Ocean, and Red Sea can be attacked... not to mention other countries in the area. i don't really understand the demand that the saudis suddenly have for the best toys or the Saudi refusal to accept any restrictions on the use of the U.S. weapons, and neither does the DoD/Military (next they'll demand the F-22). Bush has approveed it, but congress is taking there time....

 

[a.rahman]

The Saudis have always had an interest in special weapons, most of all nuclear weapons. It was they who funded Saddam's nuclear program , and, a related ballistic missile program in Brazil. It was the Saudis who would have been the real fathers of Saddam's bomb, and in their figuring their own eventual bomb. We still might see an eventual Saudi nuclear weapon and the Saudis can probably call themselves "Uncles" of Pakistan's bombs since they helped finance that program as well.

That's the real reason they have diversified their arms purchases. They know by Law America would cease selling them weapons if they ever made their own bomb.

Isreal has more then 200 nuclear warheads; and they are given lot of stuff for free? where is the law now?

 

[T-95]

First of all the RSAF isn't the best in the Arab world probably Egypt is.

OK some questions, even if assuming it faces a threat from Iran, at 10 per cent of GDP, is not Saudi Arabia still spending way too much on defense, even with all the oil wealth and all, and where does Saudi Arabia plan to get the money to spend on its armed forces when either the oil runs out, or the price of oil in the world market drops unexpectedly, as for its air force, I think it will be better served by having a single type of airplane, instead of having numerous types of fighter aircraft from different countries, which can make maintenance very hard.

The western world is rapidly turning "green" because of the high oil prices and to gain independence from Gulf countries (especially Saudi Arabia) so you can tell for sure oil prices will be going down dramatically is the near future and then you can say bye to all those high-end weapons purchases that Saudi makes for no reason with out having enough qualified personnel to operate them because the govt. funding will drop be at least a third by 2025.

the saudis have an insurance policy, the royal family owns a kingdom in every country.

From Europe:in 2006 the saudis agreed to buy up to 72 eurofighters/typhoons last year for $10B
and yeah, they're upgrading 80 tornados, advanced american technology gets transfered in that deal.

From the US: In 2006 the saudis spent $10B mainly on our main battle tank, various combat vehicles, upgrades for severeral things including aircraft systems and we're delivering more/new pac-3s.

as for the last few weeks, the "stall" in military sales to the saudis is a diferent deal and has a lot less to do with israeli objections, and a whole lot more to do with DoD objections to new saudi "demands." they will purchase up to $10B worth of Military Equipment, most of which will be F-15s and F-16s. however, the saudis have decided to give us (US) an ultimatum, they will only make the prchases as long as we place NO RESTRICTIONS on the very latest F-15s, F-16s, new advanced air to ground weapons and "black box" technlogy for platform upgrades. in 2005, the saudis decided to violate the our export terms with them when the RSAF decided to base F-15Es in Tabuk.

so, why do the saudis all of a sudden want a Deep Strike capabilties? the ability to conduct strikes out over the water? do they have plans for our Navy? we haven't given any arab state, straight off the line f15s/16s before. and with saudi arabia not being as stable as we'd like (the same with some GCCs), if the kindom(s) falls to "rogue islamic elements," our carriers in the Gulf, Indian Ocean, and Red Sea can be attacked... not to mention other countries in the area. i don't really understand the demand that the saudis suddenly have for the best toys or the Saudi refusal to accept any restrictions on the use of the U.S. weapons, and neither does the DoD/Military (next they'll demand the F-22). Bush has approveed it, but congress is taking there time....

You're really starting to sound Israeli to me, are you sure your from the US?

The Saudis didn't request the F-22. So far, no one but Japan, Australia and Israel have requested it and they have all been denied despite the fact that they are all very strong US allies so what are the chances of Saudi Arabia of getting them?

 

[swerve]

... they will purchase up to $10B worth of Military Equipment, most of which will be F-15s and F-16s. however, the saudis have decided to give us (US) an ultimatum, they will only make the prchases as long as we place NO RESTRICTIONS on the very latest F-15s, F-16s,
...:

Why would the Saudis buy F-16s? More F-15s don't seem exactly probable, but F-16s just seem totally off the wall. Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

 

[metro]

First of all the RSAF isn't the best in the Arab world probably Egypt is.



The western world is rapidly turning "green" because of the high oil prices and to gain independence from Gulf countries (especially Saudi Arabia) so you can tell for sure oil prices will be going down dramatically is the near future and then you can say bye to all those high-end weapons purchases that Saudi makes for no reason with out having enough qualified personnel to operate them because the govt. funding will drop be at least a third by 2025.



You're really starting to sound Israeli to me, are you sure your from the US?

The Saudis didn't request the F-22. So far, no one but Japan, Australia and Israel have requested it and they have all been denied despite the fact that they are all very strong US allies so what are the chances of Saudi Arabia of getting them?

i'm straight up american born and raised here in MI. when the oil runs out, i'm selling water at $5/gal.
Deeeetroooiiitt Baaaassskettbaaaallllll!! Any questions?

You’d be surprised by what the Saudis request and get. The F-22 was a little hyperbole. Unless some of the royal family members believe that one can sit in the cockpit of a "F-22" while it's on the ground and the "stealth" will make them invisible, I really don't see a point in the Saudis asking for the F-22?!? Sadaam’s tactic of burying a few Migs in the sand was likewise, an interesting tactic. Unless, someone wants to believe that SA has a/some operating bases for US, and we need an excuse for curious people who might wonder why "they" caught a glimpse of an “F22” flying in and out of Abdullah’s AFB, it doesn't make sense.

Being serious though, what's SA going to do with all that weaponry (nice for our defense industry)? Having the weapons isn't making anyone scared, but it will make for an enticing target. I just know many in the DoD and especially our Navy, don’t want the latest and greatest going into a kingdom that’s far from stable. However, when SA “hints” to build “peaceful nukes,” and Russia’s willingness to sell anybody anything they want, has put US in a difficult situation.

As for “Israel,” the only difference between what they get and what can be found in the region is Israel can put its indigenous technology into some of their purchases. They also have indigenous technology… My understanding is that the UAE is being sold the same exact stuff when it comes to aircraft.

But England, the French, and US, have had to deal with the same stuff (oil money).

Forget about the “slush fund” (as some call it) in England, here’s how the Saudis roll in France (I don’t know about the pasting rules here-can’t link this—but the source is cited... if it's a problem, please just erase it MOD):

"Meet Saudi Prince Nayef Bin Sultan Bin Fawwaz Al Shaalan. The name is a mouthful, but it says everything about the intentions of the Saudi kingdom against the West.
Nayef is grandson of Saudi founder Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz and son-in-law to Saudi Deputy Defense Minister Prince Khaled. Nayef has also been sentenced for heading a huge drug smuggling operation to Western Europe and the United States.

Here's how it worked: Nayef used his diplomatic immunity to bring cocaine from Colombia to France. His usual method of transport was the Boeing 727 jet used by the Saudi royal family.

For years, France agonized over whether to prosecute Nayef. The Saudi royals had threatened to end all military and defense cooperation, particularly arms purchases from France, if Nayef was prosecuted.

In the end, a French court sentenced Nayef to 10 years in prison and fined him $100 million. But Nayef didn't attend the May 10 sentencing. He was in Saudi Arabia and has no plans to enter France for a while.

Nayef was convicted of seeking to smuggle two tons of cocaine from Colombia to an airport outside Paris in 1999. The Saudi prince was part of a ring that included nine other people, all of whom were never caught by French authorities.

The United States also indicted Nayef on separate charges of conspiracy to possess and distribute cocaine. In 2005, a U.S. federal court convicted two colleagues of Nayef and sentenced them each to 24 years in prison and fined them $25,000.

But there won't be a trial of Nayef in the United States. Federal courts don't hold trials in absentia.

Meanwhile, Nayef prowls the halls of the Saudi palace in Riyad near the court of King Abdullah. Indeed, senior U.S. officials such as Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Robert Gates might have bumped into the cocaine magnate during recent visits to discuss improving relations with the kingdom.

Nayef has denied the charges. His defense is that he has been cleared by the Saudi government."

[Talk about "flying high"]


Geostrategy-Direct, www.geostrategy-direct.com, May 23, 2007
2007 East West Services, Inc.

 

[metro]

Why would the Saudis buy F-16s? More F-15s don't seem exactly probable, but F-16s just seem totally off the wall. Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

I thought it is/was nutz too, if I only knew the real reason(s). Yeah, I have a source for it (I'm sure it's in the congressional records anyone can read today... but those are a pain in the ass to decipher). Give me a little time to find it...

 

[T-95]

I thought it is/was nutz too, if I only knew the real reason(s). Yeah, I have a source for it (I'm sure it's in the congressional records anyone can read today... but those are a pain in the ass to decipher). Give me a little time to find it...

Yes this request was made, they even had a picture of how the Saudi camo would look like. And Prince Bandar flew one in the US as he was "evaluating it", meaning he was back seater in an F-16D with an air force pilot taking him on rides.

 

[swerve]

Yes this request was made, they even had a picture of how the Saudi camo would look like. And Prince Bandar flew one in the US as he was "evaluating it", meaning he was back seater in an F-16D with an air force pilot taking him on rides.

When?

BTW, pictures of how Saudi camo would look don't mean anything, nor do princes having back seat flights. These can result from attempts to sell the things, with the prospective customer not having the slightest interest, but a few officials being happy to accept freebies in exchange for listening to a sales pitch.

 

[T-95]

When?

BTW, pictures of how Saudi camo would look don't mean anything, nor do princes having back seat flights. These can result from attempts to sell the things, with the prospective customer not having the slightest interest, but a few officials being happy to accept freebies in exchange for listening to a sales pitch.

No, it's actually the Saudis who are interested in buying with the US not having the slightest interest in selling (balance of power, Israel and the Arabs, etc.). But I think the Pentagon was considering it for a while and then refused because of Israel and the huge number they were about to buy and the advanced variants they wanted (140 F-16 Block 60/62).