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Royal New Zealand Air Force

This is a discussion on Royal New Zealand Air Force within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by t68 I like the idea of a couple of c17,but how often would you need them? it ...


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Old November 3rd, 2008   #601
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I like the idea of a couple of c17,but how often would you need them?
it might be a bit of an overkill.
I would like to see A400m in Kiwi colours to replace the h model hercs
and some chinooks
My personal view is that the A400 is a bit over-engineered / priced for the niche position it has. It's a little too small for heavy lift, and a little too big for day to day flying that something smaller like a c27 could do. With the c17 and c27 (or perhaps the embraer, which is using a proven airplane as a base), you get the best of both worlds. A world class medium / heavy lift capability for the big operations (the c17 is loved in every theater it operates, even in Europe where they are waiting for the A400), and a smaller plane that will fly to high capacity most of the time (as opposed to an A400 that will have to fly largely empty much of the time for NZ missions).

Just my take. NZ would have to move fast for a c17 though, there has been talk for some time that production will be stopped (although it is hard to imagine given what a popular and effective aircraft it is proving). The antarctic capability would be a real icing on the cake for NZ, and the US (it may help in getting a good deal, whereas there are no synergies we could replace for the Europeans).
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Old November 4th, 2008   #602
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Just having a very quick read about the A400 , If one of the big concerns of the C130j is the carbon fiber props then the A400 should be removed as well, same props.Perhapes the C 17 is the only large transport option . The thought of transporting the Nh90 and the LAVs by air as a big appeal ,great for East Timore type operations.
Their impact on regional defence might make up for the removal of the ACF.
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Old November 8th, 2008   #603
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when are the NH-90's due to arrive?
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Old November 9th, 2008   #604
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when are the NH-90's due to arrive?
This article says they will be introduced between 2010 and 2011.
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Old November 10th, 2008   #605
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With the election of the new Conservative PM, is there any possibility of change in the Defence Policy (e.g. Fighter Planes)

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Old November 10th, 2008   #606
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It's not on the National Party agenda, that horse has well and truly bolted, we won't get fighters back unless something drastic happens to cause a complete rethink of defense spending in NZ.
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Old November 11th, 2008   #607
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It's not on the National Party agenda, that horse has well and truly bolted, we won't get fighters back unless something drastic happens to cause a complete rethink of defense spending in NZ.
I can see that the ACF is a dead duck but what about the MB339s ???At the very least we could get them moving, and if they are sold??? just break the contract,it was ok to do it for the F16s, sorry bad day .
This is one of those "big picture " ideas that the pollies just never get.
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Old November 13th, 2008   #608
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Some interesting news out of the election. Stuff is reporting that RNZAF Whenuapai is to remain open and that there will be no commerical operations out of the airbase.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4756333a6016.html

On the other front the Airforce is establishing an active reserve component using ex RNZAF personnel to help cover trade shortfalls.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10542833

Good news all around, though I do think there is a place for Civil / Military operations at Whenuapai.
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Old November 13th, 2008   #609
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It's not on the National Party agenda, that horse has well and truly bolted, we won't get fighters back unless something drastic happens to cause a complete rethink of defense spending in NZ.
Tuesday last week (prior to the Election) I caught John Key on 1ZB Newstalk Talkback Layton Smiths morning show answering a callers Question about Nationals Defence Policy.He mentioned he hardly ever got asked and welcomed the call.

He covered off the need to have a White paper (strategy Document for non Kiwi's) to examine defence capabilities and retention issues in particular.He said that we could'nt do everything (unlike a larger economy) that for instance America can do.He felt we should concentrate on what we do well (sounds like the other mob!!!), quoting the SAS as an example.John Key also said that compared to NATO spending our spend was very low and he was relaxed about lifting the level of spend overtime (once I guess the World Economies & NZ's stabilise).He is passionate about retaining Whenuapai Airforce base for Search and Rescue/Patrol (Orions) and sorry team cannot recall the other example he gave.

No mention of Jet Strike so it does'nt sound promising given the focus on what we can do well(ie basically working with what we have got).we will have to wait and see what the White paper holds.He said the White Paper was a priority if he won on Saturday, which he did.
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Old November 14th, 2008   #610
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With the upgrades to the P-3 Orions and C-130 Hercules underway, I do not see New Zealand acquiring another transport aircraft anytime within the next decade. Since the C-17 Globemaster line won't last that long, when it comes time to buy new aircraft, I suspect the Hercules will be replaced with newer Hercules, on a one per one basis. If the Hercules are too expensive, I would support buying a few new Hercules and a few new Spartans, C-27Js.

If the same occurs with buying new Orions, I would also agree with a combination offer of a few new Orions with a few CASA 235s. But I would prefer new Hercules and Orions.

I would be surprised if New Zealand could afford the new P-8s to replace the P-3s. Possibly a reduced number along with a few CASA 235s would be affordable.

While I love the C-17, by the time a white paper is done, its line will have ended.
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Old November 14th, 2008   #611
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With the upgrades to the P-3 Orions and C-130 Hercules underway, I do not see New Zealand acquiring another transport aircraft anytime within the next decade. Since the C-17 Globemaster line won't last that long, when it comes time to buy new aircraft, I suspect the Hercules will be replaced with newer Hercules, on a one per one basis. If the Hercules are too expensive, I would support buying a few new Hercules and a few new Spartans, C-27Js.

If the same occurs with buying new Orions, I would also agree with a combination offer of a few new Orions with a few CASA 235s. I would be surprised if New Zealand could afford the new P-8s to replace the P-3s. Possibly a reduced number along with a few CASA 235s would be affordable.

While I love the C-17, by the time a white paper is done, its line will have ended.

Any introduction of an air combat force, new fighters, will probably result with only new trainer/fighter aircraft. Keeping the Aeromacchis would be nice until we could buy F/T-50 Eagle aircraft from South Korea. In my mind, they are the best trainer/fighter aircraft available within the next decade.
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Old November 14th, 2008   #612
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With the upgrades to the P-3 Orions and C-130 Hercules underway, I do not see New Zealand acquiring another transport aircraft anytime within the next decade. Since the C-17 Globemaster line won't last that long, when it comes time to buy new aircraft, I suspect the Hercules will be replaced with newer Hercules, on a one per one basis. If the Hercules are too expensive, I would support buying a few new Hercules and a few new Spartans, C-27Js.

If the same occurs with buying new Orions, I would also agree with a combination offer of a few new Orions with a few CASA 235s. I would be surprised if New Zealand could afford the new P-8s to replace the P-3s. Possibly a reduced number along with a few CASA 235s would be affordable.

While I love the C-17, by the time a white paper is done, its line will have ended.

Any introduction of an air combat force, new fighters, will probably result with only new trainer/fighter aircraft. Keeping the Aeromacchis would be nice until we could buy F/T-50 Eagle aircraft from South Korea. In my mind, they are the best trainer/fighter aircraft available within the next decade.
Considering how long we will most likely fly the Hercs, I think one for one is a must, for boosted spending a few Spartans in addition would be good a capability operated until the Andovers were retired in the 90's.

While I certainly do not see the Orion being replaced 1-1 by the P-8, 4 P-8's and medium - long range UAV would certainly add massive capability while remaining in the realm of affordability.
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Old November 14th, 2008   #613
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Some interesting news out of the election. Stuff is reporting that RNZAF Whenuapai is to remain open and that there will be no commerical operations out of the airbase.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4756333a6016.html

On the other front the Airforce is establishing an active reserve component using ex RNZAF personnel to help cover trade shortfalls.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10542833

Good news all around, though I do think there is a place for Civil / Military operations at Whenuapai.
Great news about Whenuapai, do you think the reluctance to introduce civilian operations is due to local population sensitivities?

I think NZ should really act on Reserve capability this seems to be a excellent step in the right direction of semi -preparedness and capability.
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Old November 14th, 2008   #614
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I think NZ should really act on Reserve capability this seems to be a excellent step in the right direction of semi -preparedness and capability.
Item on today's Radio NZ Checkpoint (drive time news) on the active reserve recruitment scheme:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/__data/asse...s_off-m048.asx

Features commentary from Air force spokesman Squadron Leader Glenn Davis, researcher/journalist Nicky Hagar (formally was known as a peace activist/researcher) making soothing noises and current RNZRSA National President AVM Robin Klitscher reckoning that a more formal structure should be set-up. Klitscher's comment seems reasonable to me, after all, retention is the issue, staff leave for higher paying civilian jobs, I'm sure a few ex-RNZAF types could be interested in flying Herc's in the weekends etc. Always interesting to read that USAF pilots flying C17's/C130's from Christchurch to Antarctica can be USAF Reservists sometimes. Must be one heck of a fun job!
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Old November 30th, 2008   #615
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Interesting news from Stuff (here). If the airforce can show a new for jet training in the defence review the government will consider returning the MB-339 to service.

A positive comment I think - all it requires now is for defence to get there act together.
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