Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
This is a discussion on Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Did anyone else notice the that The E-7 Wedgetail has achieved Initial Operational Capability (IOC)? A long time coming but ...
Did anyone else notice the that The E-7 Wedgetail has achieved Initial Operational Capability (IOC)? A long time coming but the RAAF now has a class piece of kit operational.
In today's Australian Aviation magazine, Chief of Air Force AM Geoff Brown explained how the plan for the Growler introduction will happen.
The main points are:
* The capability to begin entering RAAF service from 2016, with an IOC of 6 Growlers in 2018.
* FOC of all 12 Growlers not until 2021-22.
* Move all Super Hornet training back to the US Navy so that the initial 6 aircraft can be withdrawn from service to allow for their conversion to Growlers.
* The last 6 Growler conversions will not commence until the RAAF starts the transition to the JSF in the early 2020's.
* The RAAF will follow the USN in upgrading the Growler as any changes in capability occur, including the Next Gen Jammer. Quote: "It will be a similar philosophy to what we're doing with the Super Hornet which is very much a USN problem all the way through, so we'll be the fast followers as they change the jet".
* The RAAF will acquire a "mobile electronic warfare" range as part of the Growler acquisition, but only a training capability for the AGM-88 HARM missile, but not warstocks of the weapon. Quote: "We've got a HARM training capability with it, but we are looking for newer missiles further down the track".
* The article also states that 6 Sqn will be the Growler Sqn, which I think was known and announced earlier.
That clears up the question I had of how training for the Super Hornets could continue, moving training to the US solves the issue of possibly having to acquire another 6 or so Supers to continue training.
I'd assume that when the first 6 are withdrawn to start Growler conversion, the remaining 6 "unconverted" Super Hornets will transfer to 1 Sqn control.
That would free up 6 Sqn to concentrate on its new role of being the Growler Sqn.
Last edited by John Newman; November 27th, 2012 at 10:39 PM.
Reason: Fix typos
When will we have enough LightningII aircraft to retire the non-growler super hornets? Should we not be considering purchasing a few more super hornets, for the period when the growler squadron is formed and our super hornet numbersd therefore reduced? I am talking 4 or 6 additional aircraft, not another squadron.
If you remember, our initial purchase of F111 aircraft was 28 aircraft.
When will we have enough LightningII aircraft to retire the non-growler super hornets? Should we not be considering purchasing a few more super hornets, for the period when the growler squadron is formed and our super hornet numbersd therefore reduced? I am talking 4 or 6 additional aircraft, not another squadron.
If you remember, our initial purchase of F111 aircraft was 28 aircraft.
Firstly with the F111, the original plan was for 18 F111A and 6 RF111A, this then changed to 24 F111C's and that's what was delivered, not 28.
There was an "option" for a futher 6, but that wasn't taken up. Many years later after 4 of the C's were lost in accidents, we took deliver of 4 A's which were converted to C's, two more were available, but failed fatigue tests and stayed in the US, anyway there's a lot of history on Australia's F111's if you look for it.
I think the question of another 4-6 Super Hornets, as you mentioned, has been answered by the RAAF sending the training back to the US Navy.
As long as there isn't any more major slippage in delivery dates of the F35's and/or the Classic Hornets don't develop a major structural problem thats too expensive to rectify that might require a significant part of the Classic fleet to be grounded, I can't see the Government ordering anymore Super's.
We are still going to have 18 Super Hornet's plus the 6 Growlers, plus the 71 Classics.
How many of the 71 classics are actually air-worthy?
I would bet my left *** it isn't 71.
I don't know, but I haven't heard that any have been permanently "officially" withdrawn yet because of airworthy issues.
Yes I'm sure that not all 71 are available at the one time, but that no different to any other branch of the airforce, or ADF generally, something is always in maintenance, repair or upgrade at any given time.
As yes, there will be a draw down in strength in the comming years as the oldest and/or most worn are removed from service as we draw closer to the end of the decade when the F35A's are due.
Yes there are 71 in the "pool", but what is the official strength of each of the 3 operational Sqn's and No 2 OCU?
Is it 12 airframes per Sqn or is it more, say 16 per Sqn?
If 12, then that would mean 48 or if it was 16 it would be 64 airframes are required to be available.
I'm sure someone here would know the correct answer to that.
Thanks for that John.
I am sure that not all the 71 classics went through the HUG (I think that's the acronym) programme. I would guess, that some of the older airframes that weren't converted may well have been attrited.
Is there such a thing as "extended readiness" in the RAAF - like in the RAN - meaning essentially in mothballs?
Interested to know.
MB
Thanks for that John.
I am sure that not all the 71 classics went through the HUG (I think that's the acronym) programme. I would guess, that some of the older airframes that weren't converted may well have been attrited.
Is there such a thing as "extended readiness" in the RAAF - like in the RAN - meaning essentially in mothballs?
Interested to know.
MB
MB, There were numerous phases of the HUG which I understood was fleet wide, but maybe you are referring to the Centre Barrel replacements?
From memory, in the end around 10 were performed out of a planned 40+ I think.
Recently there was the Auditor General's report released on the issue of sustainment for the Classic fleet through to, I think, around 2020.
Again from memory, the report said that the fleet should all make it to their 6,000hr airframe life, but the report identified that the "majority" of the fleet had exceded their fatigue life in relation to the number of hours on each airframe to this point and that also corrosion was and increasing issue.
But as we know, the RAAF is pretty good at managing "aging" airframes, so unless some major issue arises between now and the F35A's introduction, the RAAF will keep doing what its doing to keep them airworthy.
MB, There were numerous phases of the HUG which I understood was fleet wide, but maybe you are referring to the Centre Barrel replacements?
From memory, in the end around 10 were performed out of a planned 40+ I think.
IIRC the CBR was something which was different/distinct from the HUG programme. The HUG programme itself being the Hornet Up Grade programme... Again IIRC every 'Classic' Hornet went through it, to become known as a HUG Bug, amongst the major components of the HUG were significant upgrades to the Hornet-A/B avionics packages, including replacing the APG-65 radar with the APG-73 radar used in Hornet-C/D's and Block 1 SHornets.
-Cheers
________________
"I'm doing the same thing I do every night, Pinky..." comment from one lab mouse to another.
IIRC the CBR was something which was different/distinct from the HUG programme. The HUG programme itself being the Hornet Up Grade programme... Again IIRC every 'Classic' Hornet went through it, to become known as a HUG Bug, amongst the major components of the HUG were significant upgrades to the Hornet-A/B avionics packages, including replacing the APG-65 radar with the APG-73 radar used in Hornet-C/D's and Block 1 SHornets.
-Cheers
The Fin Review has just posted a story saying the Defence Minister will tomorrow announce he has directed the Department to determine the costings for the purchase of an additional 24 Super Hornets.
The story gives continuing delays with the JSF as the reason.
Big announcements coming up before the election. 24 more Supers and another Air Warfare Destroyer.
The Fin Review has just posted a story saying the Defence Minister will tomorrow announce he has directed the Department to determine the costings for the purchase of an additional 24 Super Hornets.
The story gives continuing delays with the JSF as the reason.
Big announcements coming up before the election. 24 more Supers and another Air Warfare Destroyer.
Seems to be a conflict here ... on one hand they are saying that the existing classic hornet could last until the F-35 is ready and on the other they are planning the purchase a second batch of SHs.
The cynic in me is wondering if this hasn't got more to do with the rising cost of the F-35 rather than any concerns that the classic hornet fleet is falling apart.
Don't be surprised if the RAAF ends up only getting a single squadron of F-35s at the end of all this.
Seems to be a conflict here ... on one hand they are saying that the existing classic hornet could last until the F-35 is ready and on the other they are planning the purchase a second batch of SHs.
The cynic in me is wondering if this hasn't got more to do with the rising cost of the F-35 rather than any concerns that the classic hornet fleet is falling apart.
Don't be surprised if the RAAF ends up only getting a single squadron of F-35s at the end of all this.
Or if an additional 24 supers are bought,then we may never see any F35's aquired.Keeping inline with the single fleet cost efficencies dogma...may be a way out of the F35 programme altogether.
Or if an additional 24 supers are bought,then we may never see any F35's aquired.Keeping inline with the single fleet cost efficencies dogma...may be a way out of the F35 programme altogether.
True ... they could indeed argue that the Superhornet plus Growlers could give the RAAF sufficient capability and of course cite all of the advantages of a single airframe to kill off the F-35 program completely.
Or if an additional 24 supers are bought,then we may never see any F35's aquired.Keeping inline with the single fleet cost efficencies dogma...may be a way out of the F35 programme altogether.
Unlikely. What "may" occur is a larger Super Hornet fleet with an F-35 "silver bullet" force, but I find it highly unlikely we'll get out of F-35 altogether.
If we do, our Government has gone completely nuts and lost the plot. Super Hornet isn't sufficient to provide our air combat needs for the next 30 years by itself and ADF should be leaking that like a sieve to the press and the Minister and the Government's desires be damned.
