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This is a discussion on Republic of Singapore Air Force Discussions within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; According to feeds from AFP, Singapore has chosen the F-15 as it's next generation fighter aircraft. It is now in ...


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Old September 6th, 2005   #1
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Republic of Singapore Air Force Discussions

According to feeds from AFP, Singapore has chosen the F-15 as it's next generation fighter aircraft.

It is now in final negotiations with Boeing with respect to numbers, logistical support etc.

More news as it comes to hand...

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Singapore says in final negotiations with Boeing over F-15 order
By AFP / AFX


URL of this article: http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/
Tue, 6 Sep 2005, 09:24SINGAPORE: Singapore is in the final stages of negotiations with Boeing Co for its new generation of fighters, indicating the US-made F-15 has won over the French-built Rafale, the defense ministry said.

It said in a statement it is 'now in the process of seeking final clarifications and contract negotiation with Boeing' for the contract, estimated in the industry to be worth about 1 bln usd.

The Rafale and F-15 were earlier shortlisted for the contract.

The ministry statement comes two weeks after the US defense department notified the US Congress of the possible sale to Singapore of weapons, logistics and training as part of a proposed F-15 fighter deal.

The weapons include advanced supersonic air-to-air missiles and satellite-guided bombs.

The new fighters will replace a squadron of Singapore's aging A4SU Super Skyhawk fighter jets.

'This proposed sale includes weapons and logistics for the F-15 aircraft,' the defense security and cooperation agency said in a statement.

The defense agency said the proposed sale was worth 741 mln usd if all options are exercised.

The weapons include 200 AIM 120C advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles (AMRAAM); 50 joint direct attack munitions (JDAMs) with 500-pound warheads; 30 AGM 154A-1 joint standoff weapons with 500-pound warheads; 30 AGM 154C joint standoff weapons; and 200 AIM 9X Sidewinder missiles.


Last edited by WebMaster; September 6th, 2005 at 09:40 AM.
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Old September 7th, 2005   #2
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

Which variant did they choose (a/b/c/d/e/f) ?
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Old September 7th, 2005   #3
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

The F-15 (T) has offered to singapore.
The T variant has AESA integrated into the plane
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Old September 7th, 2005   #4
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

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Originally Posted by gf0012-aust

Rafale continues to be the aviation worlds version of the Leclerc. It's a flying orphan. The unfortunate comments made by Dassault won't do them any help in selling equipment in Asia either. Sore losers should not make comments which can be perceived as racist. One would have thought that they learnt that lesson after the idiotic comment they made about Indias decision to go with Boeing rather than Airbus.

Both Janes and Defence World have actually done a very good synopsis on why Rafale is failing in the market.
Sorry for driffting the topic away but what comment did Dessault make to sell Rafale in Asia & what comment they made when India decided to go for Boeing instead of AirBus?

Anyways Rafale is not the only flying Orphan. Remember F-14s have technicaly been Orphan. Their purchase by Iranians I believe dont realy matters now. No other country bought F-14s at all nor showed much of an interest.
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Old September 7th, 2005   #5
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

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Originally Posted by jtcohen

Why they choose the F-15 is beyond my logic, already more then 15 years old, I'd have gone with a Grippen lease, 18 should do it.
IIRC the Gripen doesnt even meet the specifications of the SAF. Not enough payload and more importantly only one engine.
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Old September 7th, 2005   #6
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

Ah, yes. Flying over the sea, when one engine goes out the other usually just helps you into the drink faster. These are replacing A-4 Skyhawks that only have one engine. I can understand on the range issue for the F-15 prefrence, they are also getting a nice weapons fit with the package.

I guess someone has to keep the producton lines open, but I'd have chosen differently and tried to get a lease deal.
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Old September 7th, 2005   #7
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Ah, yes. Flying over the sea, when one engine goes out the other usually just helps you into the drink faster.
actually, all the avail data says otherwise. the 2nd engine provides redundancy, and as part of certification the aircraft has to be able to be able to get home if the other engine fails. The requirement does not state that losing one engine requires the plane to get home on the remaining engine at FMP. The reason why Australia decided to go from single engine mirages to twin engine hornets was that it provided inherent redundancy

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Originally Posted by jtcohen
I guess someone has to keep the producton lines open, but I'd have chosen differently and tried to get a lease deal.
That was the argument that was for the Sth Korean purchase as well. Unfortunately it doesn't wash with the facts. If you trawl through the prev history of threads you'll find a response by Highsea who pointed out the flaws in the argument. The F15 lines were not at risk even prior to the Sth Korean decision, obviously it makes the line issue "better", but they would have stayed open for various reasons anyway.
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Old September 7th, 2005   #8
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

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Sorry for driffting the topic away but what comment did Dessault make to sell Rafale in Asia & what comment they made when India decided to go for Boeing instead of AirBus?
They made a reference to Singapore acting like bamboo and bending under "pressure". That has probably successfull killed off any opportunity for France to make greater inroads for a few years. As for India, the French Minister implied that the Indian procurement decision was tainted. ie alleged corruption in the decision making. That kind of comment at a political level demonstrates not only terrible manners, but a lack of composure and restraint at the approp level. It defies all logic in the diplomatic scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by SABRE
Anyways Rafale is not the only flying Orphan. Remember F-14s have technicaly been Orphan. Their purchase by Iranians I believe dont realy matters now. No other country bought F-14s at all nor showed much of an interest.
No, in the trade, an aviation orphan is one where its only sales are reflected at home and no other export has been achieved. There are more F22's flying than Rafales. (the point here being that economies of scale for orphan platforms become even more critical if base volumes are not met. In the case of the US, there is no intention of selling F-22's externally yet, so export sales to validate continuance is non-existent. In the case of Rafale, not only do they not have a large baseline requirement (which they have scaled back as well) but they also need export sales to backfill the reduced local buy up. exports are needed for helping meet "recovery" costs.)

As for the Iranian issue, its irrelevant, as it was a sale. It's also an active combat aircraft - have a look at ACIG and refer to its Mig Kills for Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. either way, it was an export. You can't bend the reality just to fit your argument. No other country bought the F-14 as they couldn't afford it and their mission capability was only relevant to very few. The only other major potential purchases were australia (as the F14 was a successor to the F-111) and the UK - and they didn't have a RN requirement for a long range maritime defender when all their interceptors could fly off HMS "Gt Britain". OTOH, Rafale has been marketed as a multi-role capable platform and has yet to be agreed upon by any of the "alpha" buyers. hence its chances for an export may still exist, buts opportunity for market penetration into large volume stable repeat customers has dimnished considerably.

Thats the purchasing reality of it - emotions are excluded when the numbers get crunched up.
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Old September 8th, 2005   #9
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

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Originally Posted by jtcohen
I'd imagine they would be looking at the C model with an updated electronics/commo package suited to thier C4 net.

Why they choose the F-15 is beyond my logic, already more then 15 years old, I'd have gone with a Grippen lease, 18 should do it.
As Ramjet has said, they are getting a T variant which is a derivative of the F-15E/K Strike Eagle not the C/D Air superiority model.

Hope that helps answer why they chose it.
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Old September 8th, 2005   #10
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

Why US would be giving its new tech (AESA radar ) to singapore I dont think that US or other countries which manufacture AC's ( or other defence materials) export their new tech after spending a lot of amount and time in the development of that tech.If this is the case that US will suply AESA radar to singapore then Isreal,UK,Australia and also Pakistan is the first costumer.Do US consider singapore a serious thread to China if US have supplied AESA radar of other latest defence tech to the Taiwan then if would be meaning full
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Old September 8th, 2005   #11
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

I believe they just dont have any other choice, they have to choose US made F-15. Other choices is either affordable or not.

Indonesia and Malaysia has decided to use SU-27 and SU-30.For the time being F-15 together with the full package will be just the correct sollution.

pls correct me.
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Old September 8th, 2005   #12
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I believe they just dont have any other choice, they have to choose US made F-15. Other choices is either affordable or not.

Indonesia and Malaysia has decided to use SU-27 and SU-30.For the time being F-15 together with the full package will be just the correct sollution.

pls correct me.
I don't get you. I mean, I don't understand what you wrote.
Malaysia and Indonesia, Vietnam, and the others are choosing russian (or even worse, chinese) stuff because they are cheap (in the two senses of the world). They either can't afford (economically or politically) the western products.
That is it. Singapore is not playing this game, it has money and wants the best.
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Old September 8th, 2005   #13
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I don't get you. I mean, I don't understand what you wrote.
Malaysia and Indonesia, Vietnam, and the others are choosing russian (or even worse, chinese) stuff because they are cheap (in the two senses of the world). They either can't afford (economically or politically) the western products.
That is it. Singapore is not playing this game, it has money and wants the best.
Mate he is simply trying to say that Indonesia and Malaysia will try to use Russian Su's for a time being to fill the gap after 5-10 years (i think ) they will try to get the US F-15's.At that time they will have enough money for those purchasings and the latest US would be easily available.
And dont ever say that the Chineese tech is worse. I know that the the US AC's remain in the front line but if a country try to fill their places of their backup fighters with the US tech too then this would be too costly.
e.g PAF
F-16's for multirole
F-15's for the air superiority
F-18's and others
then we are gonna loose our all foreign currency reserves in those purchases.
Man this would be more like able to induct a mid tech fighter in a large quantity which must be present at all bases having multirole capebilities and tasks assined according to the area ( like ports land bases etc) i mean to say that the AC's on the shores having the harpoons etc and AC's in the front having the A2A and A2G missiles.
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Old September 8th, 2005   #14
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Angry boring thread

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Originally Posted by kashifshahzad
Mate he is simply trying to say that Indonesia and Malaysia will try to use Russian Su's for a time being to fill the gap after 5-10 years (i think ) they will try to get the US F-15's.At that time they will have enough money for those purchasings and the latest US would be easily available.
And dont ever say that the Chineese tech is worse. I know that the the US AC's remain in the front line but if a country try to fill their places of their backup fighters with the US tech too then this would be too costly.
e.g PAF
F-16's for multirole
F-15's for the air superiority
F-18's and others
then we are gonna loose our all foreign currency reserves in those purchases.
Man this would be more like able to induct a mid tech fighter in a large quantity which must be present at all bases having multirole capebilities and tasks assined according to the area ( like ports land bases etc) i mean to say that the AC's on the shores having the harpoons etc and AC's in the front having the A2A and A2G missiles.

I have read your revealed secret of Raptor F-22.You have mentioned about the unofficial report excercised between Indian SU-30MKI and US F-15, the Sukhoi seem to be slighty better then the F-15.

I hope you can understand my poor English. What im trying to say is that.Singapore should find a better match for the SU-30MKM (malaysia) and Indonesia. Maybe the Grispen or the Thypoon(we have seen the comparison made in the other forum)or the US future fighter F-22 Raptor as you have revealed the secret.

Raptor is just too expensive for the Singaporean or maybe someone should start a new comparison between SU-30 and F-15.

pls correct me
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Old September 8th, 2005   #15
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Re: Singapore has chosen F-15 as Next Gen Fighter

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Why US would be giving its new tech (AESA radar ) to singapore I dont think that US or other countries which manufacture AC's ( or other defence materials) export their new tech after spending a lot of amount and time in the development of that tech.If this is the case that US will suply AESA radar to singapore then Isreal,UK,Australia and also Pakistan is the first costumer.Do US consider singapore a serious thread to China if US have supplied AESA radar of other latest defence tech to the Taiwan then if would be meaning full
In this intensive competition, The RSAF emphasize alot on avaliability of AESA from the each contending aviation company. Therefore its presence in the aircraft specification adds on merit.

Althou singapore hasnt been a treaty ally of the United Stated of America but our perennial friendly and supportive gestures have indirectly signalled them that both nations share common national interests and will be really if required assistance.
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