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Qaher 313 New Iranian Fighter Jet

This is a discussion on Qaher 313 New Iranian Fighter Jet within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; The "flight" demo has all the hallmarks of a model aircraft, bless 'em. My money is on "toy/demo" til I ...


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Old February 2nd, 2013   #16
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The "flight" demo has all the hallmarks of a model aircraft, bless 'em. My money is on "toy/demo" til I see otherwise.

It's way too small to be a combat aircraft with anything like a payload, there's no sign of a weapons bay (or room for one) and I don't think there's anything like the number or size of control surfaces on the wings, the canards don't appear to move unless I'm missing something ?
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #17
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Originally Posted by StobieWan View Post
The "flight" demo has all the hallmarks of a model aircraft, bless 'em. My money is on "toy/demo"
This is not your own remark. You should quote the primary source.
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #18
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Originally Posted by StobieWan View Post
It's way too small to be a combat aircraft
MiG-15 is also roughly the same size as Q-313 and it was a combat aircraft.
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #19
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This is not your own remark. You should quote the primary source.
What do you mean "this is not your own remark" ? I'm pretty sure it is my own remark, as I distinctly recall being there when it was typed....


I'm sorry - the alleged demo flight footage looks like poor quality footage of a scale model being flown. That's my opinion, nothing more.

As I've said, and as others have also indicated, the rollout model doesn't look like a working aircraft either - control surfaces, inlets, that sort of thing, they're all lacking in detail that I'd expect from a flyable jet.
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #20
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MiG-15 is also roughly the same size as Q-313 and it was a combat aircraft.
Here's what I wrote.

" there's no sign of a weapons bay (or room for one) and I don't think there's anything like the number or size of control surfaces on the wings, the canards don't appear to move unless I'm missing something ?"

Try dealing with the points you've avoided - if this is intended to be a VLO aircraft, where do the weapons go ?

Actually, how big is the 313 ? Do you have any figures ? I think everyone else is looking at the item pictured and scaling from the cockpit, which seems to take up a large chunk of the aircraft. If you look at a Mig-15, the cockpit seems much further off the ground than the 313 and smaller in comparison to the 313.

I'm also quite a bit bothered by how much the aircraft moves around when the pilot enters the aircraft, indicating the structure is very light indeed.

Last edited by StobieWan; February 2nd, 2013 at 11:53 AM. Reason: additional clarification
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #21
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Is it normal that the pilot moving in the cockpit could cause the aircraft to visibly rock from side to side?!
No way!

A pilot moving continuously its body with 1 m/s would have a momentum 8333 times smaller than that of the Q-313 which means that the perturbation introduced by the pilot is insignificant.

Demonstration
Supposing the plane has a mass of 4000 kg and travels at 600 km/h and the pilot weights 80 kg and rocks there in the cockpit at 1 m/s then:

P_plane = m_plane * V_plane = 4000 kg * 166 m/s (600 km/h) = 666666 kg*m/s

P_pilot = m_pilot * V_pilot = 80 kg * 1 m/s = 80 kg*m/s

P_plane / P_pilot = 8333
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #22
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Exactly, if the plane SHOULDN'T move, then I have serious doubts (not that they didn't exist before) about that thing because it DOES move. Seems like a cheap thing with just frame built up with plastic panels with nothing actually inside of her that would actually facilitate lift - like a big heavy engine for example.

I'm calling shenanigans on this one, don't believe it one bit.

Side note: No need to explain the basic solid mechanics of what is going on, i'm well aware of the mathematics because of what I spend most of my time doing all week.

Which coindicentally are irrelevant, I'm talking about when the plane is on the ground, he's fidgiting and you can clearly see the airframe moving around because of it. I'm not talking about in flight as i've no idea about it's performance (pffft) and I wouldn't be posting any sort of numbers if you don't either.
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #23
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No way!

A pilot moving continuously its body with 1 m/s would have a momentum 8333 times smaller than that of the Q-313 which means that the perturbation introduced by the pilot is insignificant.

Demonstration
Supposing the plane has a mass of 4000 kg and travels at 600 km/h and the pilot weights 80 kg and rocks there in the cockpit at 1 m/s then:

P_plane = m_plane * V_plane = 4000 kg * 166 m/s (600 km/h) = 666666 kg*m/s

P_pilot = m_pilot * V_pilot = 80 kg * 1 m/s = 80 kg*m/s

P_plane / P_pilot = 8333

So, why is it that the aircraft rocks visibly from side to side when the pilot climbs inside it in the video ? I'm just asking because it seems very pronounced for something that should weigh several tons ?
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #24
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What do you mean "this is not your own remark" ? I'm pretty sure it is my own remark, as I distinctly recall being there when it was typed....
...
I'm sorry - the alleged demo flight footage looks like poor quality footage of a scale model being flown. That's my opinion, nothing more.
In the article:

"Iran unveils new indigenous stealth fighter “Qaher 313″. And here’s a detailed analysis. February 2, 2013" (can be found using Google)

which appeared before your remark, the author states, I quote:

"Even if it is not the first flight of the aircraft as some of The Aviationist readers say, the way the depicted plane flies is suspect. It seems a radio-controlled scale model more than a modern fighter jet.

Furthermore, as someone pointed out: if the Qaher 313 actually flew, most probably Tehran would release footage of its takeoff and landing."


Honestly, the video does not seem to show a model aircraft. There is nothing in it that would point to a small scale radio controlled plane flying in the sky.

If the video shows indeed a model aircraft then the people who clime this have to come with a justification, some evidence.
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #25
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I hadn't read the article and wasn't quoting it, which I humbly submit, would explain why I didn't cite it.
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #26
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Originally Posted by simplex View Post
In the article:

"Iran unveils new indigenous stealth fighter “Qaher 313″. And here’s a detailed analysis. February 2, 2013" (can be found using Google)

which appeared before your remark, the author states, I quote:

"Even if it is not the first flight of the aircraft as some of The Aviationist readers say, the way the depicted plane flies is suspect. It seems a radio-controlled scale model more than a modern fighter jet.

Furthermore, as someone pointed out: if the Qaher 313 actually flew, most probably Tehran would release footage of its takeoff and landing."


Honestly, the video does not seem to show a model aircraft. There is nothing in it that would point to a small scale radio controlled plane flying in the sky.

If the video shows indeed a model aircraft then the people who clime this have to come with a justification, some evidence.


Oh my god, you can't be serious?

So one article states an opinion, an opinion that a fair few people probably had who didn't even know about the articles existance, should reference that article?

Well, looks like everyone - before stating an opinion - needs to google that opinion, arrange the opinions chronologically and select the earliest reference. . .. I think not.

EDIT: I'm also going to add this video of an RC F-16 1:4 scale, watch the videos of it flying. If you reduced the quality of both the video and the audio then that'd look pretty real wouldn't it.

RC turbine jet F-16 scale 1:4 - YouTube
EDIT: #2 Again I state observsations several people have made, the motion of the pilot - pretty small ones at that - on the ground causes the airframe to visually move suggesting that the aircraft is INCREDIBLY light. How would you account for this?

Last edited by RobWilliams; February 2nd, 2013 at 12:48 PM. Reason: added quote
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #27
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Originally Posted by StobieWan View Post
" there's no sign of a weapons bay (or room for one)"
Also F-117 has no visible sign of weapons bay and it has such a facility.

There is no room for weapons in the case of Q-313?! How do you know this?
Judging from the size of the pilot in comparison with the size of the plane is self evident that at least two rockets the size of a man can be mounted inside the plane in a weapon bay.

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If you look at a Mig-15, the cockpit seems much further off the ground than the 313 and smaller in comparison to the 313.
The air intake for MiG-15 is under the cockpit. This is the reason the pilot is placed higher from the ground than in the case of Q-313 where air intakes are situated left and right from the cockpit.
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #28
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So, why is it that the aircraft rocks visibly from side to side when the pilot climbs inside it in the video ? I'm just asking because it seems very pronounced for something that should weigh several tons ?
If the aircraft is stopped its momentum is 0 (zero), its speed is zero, while the momentum of the pilot is 80 kg * m/s, supposing he moves at 1 m/s. The pilot communicates a part of its momentum to the plane which makes Q-313 to move with an average speed of 2 cm/s, quite visible.

If the plane moves with 600 km/h the same pilot moving at 1 m/s induces in the plane a parasitic average speed of 2 cm/s, same as before!

If you add 2 cm/s, lateral drift, with 166 m/s, the speed of the plane, you will get a vector that differ from the unperturbed speed of the plane in an insignificant way, the new speed of the aircraft being 166.0000012 m/s.
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #29
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The F-5 at least is a real aircraft that flies. This thing I think, is made out of wood. Have a close look at the "air intakes". They are rough, un-smooth finishes, as if they've been sawn by hand...

Have a look here:
I laughed,I do not see any way to the plane, the F- 5,Americans are afraid of Iran's progress,Americans know do not where the future of the Persian Gulf.The aircraft killer of carriers will become.We reason that the aircraft must remain unknown to you Films did not show it off .do not tell name Engines and radar to anyone
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Old February 2nd, 2013   #30
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Also F-117 has no visible sign of weapons bay and it has such a facility.

There is no room for weapons in the case of Q-313?! How do you know this?
Judging from the size of the pilot in comparison with the size of the plane is self evident that at least two rockets the size of a man can be mounted inside the plane in a weapon bay.


The air intake for MiG-15 is under the cockpit. This is the reason the pilot is placed higher from the ground than in the case of Q-313 where air intakes are situated left and right from the cockpit.

All of what you say is perfectly true if the aircraft F313 doesn't actually have an engine or fuel tanks. Which, judging by the way it bobs around like a toy made out of plywood and fibreglass, it probably doesn't.

While we're talking about the F117, have a look at the size of the inlets on that aircraft and then have a look at the 313 - scaled across, the 313 has what looks like a quarter the area of the F117 - how's the engine get enough air ? Same for the Mig-15 - heffing great tunnel at the front to shovel air in, and the 313 appears to have less space than I see devoted to an oil cooler on a decent sports car.

Have a look at the 313 again - it's very low and short, has intakes behind the cockpit, meaning that any engine has to be directly behind and in line with the cockpit - I'm not seeing that as leaving a lot of room for a weapon bay, particularly as the wings are quite thin and short, leaving no room for wing tanks.

Have a look at the cockpit detail in the video - the surround for the cockpit, in white, is incredibly rough, like unfinished fibre glass, the whole thing lurches around when the pilot moves in it, the canards definitely don't move (have a look at the vid again, I did...) It's a prop.
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