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Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates

This is a discussion on Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Deleted...


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Old December 12th, 2006   #16
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Old December 12th, 2006   #17
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Why doesn't the US hand over some used and not updated F16s in some ANG inventory ? It would at least preserve some air cover over the Philippines. Yes, counterinsurgency is a priority. However, who handles for instance PLAN aircrafts flying above disputed islands ? Since the closing of Subic Bay and the other US armed forces facilities, the Philippine airspace is open to whoever wants to fly over it.

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The cost of operating a handful of F-16s would skew the AFP budget too much. When we retired our F-5s, it actually did wonders for the other systems. It allowed us to bring back C-130s that were in storage, and freed up funds for our Huey II program.

What we need to focus on are weapons that can be used for current threats -- both internal and external. I'd rather that we spend the money on getting more of what we have plus real maritime patrol aircraft.

At this point, smugglers and poachers are a bigger problem than PLAN muscle-flexing.
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Old December 13th, 2006   #18
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Originally Posted by contedicavour View Post
Why doesn't the US hand over some used and not updated F16s in some ANG inventory ? It would at least preserve some air cover over the Philippines. Yes, counterinsurgency is a priority. However, who handles for instance PLAN aircrafts flying above disputed islands ? Since the closing of Subic Bay and the other US armed forces facilities, the Philippine airspace is open to whoever wants to fly over it.

cheers
Agree. Each country must prepare for the worst scenario that can change rapidly lead into the war.
If I am not mistaken, on 2009 F-5S/T RSAF and F-5E/F MACAN TNI-AU will be decommissioned. Sure not too modern, nevertheless it is useless to counter modern fighter jets but its at least can perform CAP over the disputed Spratley islands.

Considering a brotherhood senses/ solidarity of ASEAN member, may lead to a free of charges transfer of these AC. IMHO it is reasonable to choose this AC as the interim fighter because PAF already has experienced to operate the F-5 family. PAF may still has some spareparts of Freedom Fighters that some can be used by new version F-5. It will also keeping the pilot moral high, maintain their skill that will be helpful in future if they get brand new jets. Moreover it is needs at least 3 years after the contract is signed to put all brand new fighter jets into the service, its mean on 2014 PAF maybe will receive its new fighters and until to that time, Philippine still has an “open/ free air space”.

Is PAF still operating the OV-10 Bronco? For COIN operations, the OV-10 Bronco is ideal to loiter above insurgents position in deep jungle, straffing them with M-60/M2HB machine guns or with FFAR. Aided with UAV/ SOF units to pin point target, the Bronco can launch a precision attack to the target. To provide a more great punch, its nice to get some AC-130 Spectre into the PAF inventory.

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Old December 14th, 2006   #19
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Old December 14th, 2006   #20
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Is PAF still operating the OV-10 Bronco? For COIN operations, the OV-10 Bronco is ideal to loiter above insurgents position in deep jungle, straffing them with M-60/M2HB machine guns or with FFAR. Aided with UAV/ SOF units to pin point target, the Bronco can launch a precision attack to the target. To provide a more great punch, its nice to get some AC-130 Spectre into the PAF inventory.
Yup, we still have our Broncos, they're currently going through a service life extension program. However, combat losses have required conversion of some training S211s into the CAS role.

Re the AC-130. If ever we get a Herc, we'd be in better off using them as transports. After years of just living on one or two functional Hercs, we're now finally up to five, with the possibility of activating more.

We need transports.
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Old December 14th, 2006   #21
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The RSAF provided the F16A/Bs to Thailand and the S211s+Helos to the PAF so I don't think they will not agree to a F5 request.
We acquired the S211s from the manufacturers directly, as part of a counter trade deal. Singapore was not involved in that transaction. Our S211s are new; some were even assembled in the Philippines.

The Hueys "from Singapore" were actually from the US. Singapore simply won the contract to refurbish them -- paid for by the Philippine government.
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Old December 14th, 2006   #22
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Old December 16th, 2006   #23
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We acquired the S211s from the manufacturers directly, as part of a counter trade deal. Singapore was not involved in that transaction. Our S211s are new; some were even assembled in the Philippines.

The Hueys "from Singapore" were actually from the US. Singapore simply won the contract to refurbish them -- paid for by the Philippine government.
I confirm. The S211 came directly from the factory north-west of Milan in Italy. Btw buying the MB339s would have been better in terms of return on investment (payload, range, sensors, lead-in trainer role if one day you do get the Singapore modernized F5s with Grifo, etc). If the NZ still have them in storage, their MB339K are really good and relatively cheap to maintain.

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Old December 16th, 2006   #24
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I confirm. The S211 came directly from the factory north-west of Milan in Italy.
Yup. This was big news when it came out, and I still have my news clippings. The articles even detailed how the counter-trade deal involved a number of Philippine products and included, among other things, women's underwear. (I'm just saying what I read in the news gents . . . am not joking).

BTW, contedicavour, how did you verify this?

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Btw buying the MB339s would have been better in terms of return on investment . . . If the NZ still have them in storage, their MB339K are really good and relatively cheap to maintain. cheers
Quite a number of my countrymen, who know a thing or two about defense matters, agree with your assessment. There were actually allegations of back-door deals when the PAF decided to get the S211.

This plane, and the purchase of another only-the-manufacturer-would-love vehicle: the Simba AFP, resulted in a change in the AFP's modernization guidelines. They now stipulate that a specific number of countries must already be using whatever piece of foreign gear that we buy.
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Old December 16th, 2006   #25
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Old December 16th, 2006   #26
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Well, based on the flight global article, PAF will likely reactivate inoperational S211s as a first step before purchasing other trainers.
A number of the reactivated S211s are actually being converted to Close Air Support config. The Western Command of the AFP also uses S211s for low altitude photo recon missions in the Spratlys.

Here's a photo of a CAS S211, with gun and rocket pods.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g5...rbat-as211.jpg
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Old December 16th, 2006   #27
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Old December 18th, 2006   #28
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Cool. Reminds me of Argentine Pucaras.
Pucaras have turbopropellers only don't they ? If I am right you can't really compare them to jets such as the S211 ?

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Old December 18th, 2006   #29
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Yup. This was big news when it came out, and I still have my news clippings. The articles even detailed how the counter-trade deal involved a number of Philippine products and included, among other things, women's underwear. (I'm just saying what I read in the news gents . . . am not joking).

BTW, contedicavour, how did you verify this?
.
I know somebody from Aermacchi (who took over Siai Marchetti ages ago) and I lived in Milan for a long while.

cheers
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Old December 19th, 2006   #30
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Corruption is not the only story to be had in the PAF.

The fact that the service is still conducting combat operations given the budget limitations and . . . "diversion of funds" . . . is proof enough that there are people in that service who are doing their jobs.

Corruption is also not the only reason for under funding. There are a host of other government programs that are in need of funding.
I have to disagree with that, based on my calculations, the Philippine military has been underinvested relative to other areas, such as education and infrastructure such as roads, as poor as the state of the Philippine education system is relative to the rest of the world, and as inadequate as our infrastructure is, those areas of government are actully in better shape relative to the acceptable world standard, compared to our military, for example, in the case of our roads, our main cities are connected by largely paved highways, and we have four lane expressways connecting at least part of Luzon, now relative to the rest of the world, our roads are not a third world nightmare, if the state of our military is compared to these areas, you can see that the Philippine military is even worse off compared to the rest of the world than our education system or our infrastructure is, which leads to my impression that as underinvested as the Philippines is on social services, the defense sector is even more underinvested, if the state of our roads is comparable to our military, we would not even have a paved road running from Manila to Baguio or Loag, nevermind having a four lane expressway such as the North and the South Luzon expressways, the the Southern Luzon Arterial Road, this is the reason why I think the Philippine government needs to invest more money for the military, at around 2 to 2.3 per cent of GDP, or around 130 billion pesos for 2007, because as bad as the condition of our government sectors is relative to the rest of the world, the state of our military is even more pitifull, even if the other departments concerning social services are cash strapped, they still have it good relative to out armed forces.
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