This is a discussion on Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by T.C.P da Devil
Do you plan to send all the air craft to the scraps or are ...
Do you plan to send all the air craft to the scraps or are some going to be sold to another country.
Probably scrap them.
But if someone is interested in buying then PAF would probably sell them or may be even gift them. PAF is said to have gifted its F-6 to Bangladeshwhen BD govt was Pakistan friendly [Khalid Zia's BNP]. I have so far not seen any credible evidence of it though.
________________ "It is better to accept an end with a horror then face horror with no end." - Karl Von Clausewitz
But if someone is interested in buying then PAF would probably sell them or may be even gift them. PAF is said to have gifted its F-6 to Bangladeshwhen BD govt was Pakistan friendly [Khalid Zia's BNP]. I have so far not seen any credible evidence of it though.
We did receive F-6s from Pakistan a long time back, most of them got destroyed in a cyclone while still in their crates.
We aren't getting any Pakistani Q-5s, our existing fleet will be upgraded to A-5Ds and soon be replaced probably by the Jf-17, we were actually supposed to start replacing them by now, but plans of a new multi layered IADS meant most of our Budget had to be redirected.
Would Nigeria or Sri Lanka be interested in your Q-5s.
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Be loyal to Bangladesh no matter what. We have given blood to earn our freedom and will give more to protect it!
We did receive F-6s from Pakistan a long time back, most of them got destroyed in a cyclone while still in their crates.
We aren't getting any Pakistani Q-5s, our existing fleet will be upgraded to A-5Ds and soon be replaced probably by the Jf-17, we were actually supposed to start replacing them by now, but plans of a new multi layered IADS meant most of our Budget had to be redirected.
You guys need more multirole aircrafts. JF-17 is perfect but so far I haven't seen BAF make any move towards it. It would be logical replacement for A-5s and F-7s of BAF.
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Would Nigeria or Sri Lanka be interested in your Q-5s.
Don't know. They are not worth buying. So better scrap them.
________________ "It is better to accept an end with a horror then face horror with no end." - Karl Von Clausewitz
You guys need more multirole aircrafts. JF-17 is perfect but so far I haven't seen BAF make any move towards it. It would be logical replacement for A-5s and F-7s of BAF.
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The JF-17 was once rejected by the BAF, as it looked for more advanced aircraft, but with funds being diverted to the new IADS, and the growing age of our A-5s and F-7s and not to mention the unavailability of the J-10B before2015, the FC-1 is back on the list.
You see our entire defence structure is to protect our ourselves from volatile neighbours( ie, India and Myanmar) and without an IADS to back it, it was seen that the JF-17 would not be able to perform well against the Fulcrums and Flankers of the air forces of the countries mentioned, hence it was rejected at first, but now with a fully functional IADS the military strategists believe that the Fc-1 can hold its own in our air space at least. Not to mention the BAf is also desperately after Flankers as well.
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Be loyal to Bangladesh no matter what. We have given blood to earn our freedom and will give more to protect it!
JF-17 sure is back on track, especially after seeing the new video clips at Azmir Air Show, Beautiful clips and show.
More composite materials, better radar, greater agility, precision weapons and extended range will further enable JF17 to match the leading aircrafts of world. I hope the smoky engine problems are resolved, with better TWR. Any news on new engines ?
Waiting to see the JFT "Block 2" release of the aircraft.
The rollout ceremony of first of four Chinese ZDK-03 airborne warning and control systems (AWACS) aircrafts for the Pakistan Air Force was held at Hanzhong in China today. The rollout coincided with President Asif Ali Zardari's visit to China – his sixth since assuming the position in 2008.
PAF chief Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman was the chief guest at the ceremony, which was attended by the Commander of the PLA Air Force and other military and civil officials of China.
The PAF signed a contract in 2008 with China Electronics Technology Group Corporation for the joint development of four ZDK-03 AWACS aircraft configured to Pakistan's specifications.
The ZDK-03 is an advanced AWACS with sophisticated integrated sensors and communications suite, PAF said in a statement.
In his speech at the rollout, Air Chief Marshal Suleman described the event as "another milestone in the exemplary history of cooperation between Pakistan and China”.
This AWACS will strengthen the PAF's capabilities to maintain "peace with honour in the region", he said.
The AWACS is part of PAF's overall strategy of transforming itself into a "lean and technologically advanced air force", Suleman said.
The PAF will not spare any effort to make the defence of the country impregnable, he added.
CETC Chairman Wang Zhigang said the induction of the AWACS by the PAF will have a "positive impact on regional stability, peace and prosperity as well as on the close bond between the two military forces and two countries".
The PAF has also received two of four Saab-2000 AWACs aircraft ordered from Sweden.
The remaining two aircraft equipped with the Erieye radar system are expected to be delivered later this year.
Safe to conclude that Pakistan has received all 'eight' AEW&C systems (Four Erieyes & Four ZDK-03/Y-8)..? I would assume they'd help plug-in the gap created by the destruction of the two P3C Orion aircraft at that naval base in Karachi when it was attacked by militants. Not to forget that the ZDK-03 has four engines while Erieye has two; better range resulting in diversified force matrix perhaps?
However, if PAF budget permits, it should still opt for the two Erieyes that it cancelled earlier to reduce the order to four systems. In addition, having the P3C Orion inventory restored to its original number would ensure more effective control by Pakistan of its borders by keeping an eye on the 'bad guys'.
Ideal scnenario:
PAF AEW&C
06 Erieye
04 Y-8
PN AEW
10 P3C Orions
________________
With passion and sacrifice, comes freedom!
March 19, 2008 (by Asif Shamim) - According to the Dawn newspaper, the Pentagon has awarded a $78.2 million contract to supply Pakistan with electronic warfare systems for the countries F-16s.
The purchase will be made under the Foreign Military Sales Programme. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) has yet to release any announcements.
In a statement issued on Tuesday evening, the Pentagon identified the primary contractor as ITT, which has over half century of multi-platform experience in electronic warfare.
Pakistan has selected the ALQ-211(V) 4 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite known by its acronym AIDEWS.
The Pentagon said the ALQ-211(V) 4 will be used on the F-16 aircraft Pakistan is buying from the United States. ITT will also supply spares, support equipment, training, engineering services, flight test support and data.
The ALQ-211 alerts the pilot to foil radar threats by seeing the radar before it sees him, says John Dench, director of marketing for ITT Electronic Systems
The Pakistani government has already provided $39 million to ITT for this contract. The equipment will be fitted to the F-16s at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico.
Recently, the ALQ-211 (V) 4 system was installed and integrated aboard 10 Peace Puma F-16s delivered to Chile
Seems like F-16.net got its information wrong back in 2008. The following seems to line up:
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Pakistan Requests AN/ALQ-211(V)9 AIDEWS Pods
WASHINGTON, June 26, 2008 � The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan of AN/ALQ-211(V)9 AIDEWS Pods as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $75 million.
The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 21 AN/ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite (AIDEWS) Pods, software support, repair and return, spare and repair parts, support equipment, technical assistance, publications and technical documentation, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related elements of program support. The estimated cost is $75 million.
Given its geo-strategic location and partnership in the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT), Pakistan is a vital ally of the United States, as reflected in the June 2004 designation of Pakistan as a Major Non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization Ally. This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping an ally meet its legitimate defense requirements.
Pakistan intends to purchase the AIDEWS pods to enhance its existing F-16 fighter aircraft. This proposed sale will ensure Pakistan's existing fleet is compatible with the new F-16 Block 50/52 aircraft.
Consistent with U.S. conventional arms transfer policy and arms control initiatives, this potential sale will allow the Pakistani Air Force to modernize its fighter inventory, thereby enabling Pakistan to support both its own air defense needs and coalition operations.
Release of the AIDEWS equipment to Pakistan will neither affect the regional balance of power nor introduce a new technology as this level of capability or higher already exists in other countries in the region.
The principal contractor will be ITT Corporation of Clifton, New Jersey. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale.
Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical reviews, support, and program management over a period of up to 15 years.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government representatives or contractor representatives to Turkey.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.
AIDEWS - Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare System
DSCA - Defense Security Cooperation Agency
FMS - Foreign Military Sale
GWOT - Global War on Terrorism
ITT will supply its AN/ALQ-211 advanced integrated defensive electronic warfare system (AIDEWS) pod to Pakistan, which is upgrading older F-16s for commonality with newer Block 52 aircraft from Lockheed Martin that started delivering in 2010. ITT will provide 18 ALQ-211(v)9 pods, an upgrade over the previous ALQ-131 electronic countermeasures pod on the aircraft. The V9 pod provides digital radar warning, high-power jamming, threat geolocation and situational awareness, using line replaceable units interchangeable with LRUs from internal AIDEWS systems on international F-16s.
The Pakistan requirement is the first production order for the ALQ-211(v)9 pod. “This pod-mounted system brings electronic warfare (EW) technology to our allies at much less expense,” said Rich Sorelle, v-p of the ITT Integrated Electronic Warfare Systems business unit. “Since AIDEWS is based on our modular, scalable EW technology, future maintenance and upgrade costs for mixed F-16 aircraft fleets also will be lower because internal and external versions share the same components.”
The foreign military sale, contracted through Robins Air Force Base, Georgia, was authorized this summer, but only recently announced by ITT. The company also expected a letter of offer and acceptance to be signed with Oman, which last year requested 18 F-16 Block 50/52 aircraft with AIDEWS included among systems. AIDEWS is named as an optional electronic countermeasures pod for the upgrade of 145 F-16A/Bs operated by Taiwan’s air force, a possible sale made known to the U.S. Congress on September 21.
The sale of AIDEWS pods to Pakistan was requested in 2008. In a recent interview, ITT executives said the requirement helped launch the podded version of the ALQ-211 system. The contract win is “huge, and I expect we would proliferate across the F-16 marketplace, as that upgrade is significant over the existing ALQ-131 pod that previously protected the aircraft,” said Bob Ferrante, ITT Airborne and Electronic Attack division general manager. He said some 1,500 F-16s would be candidates for the V9 pod.
ITT said more than 160 internal AIDEWS systems are under contract for six countries as part of the company’s FMS program. To date, 134 systems have been delivered.
Well this makes at least one thing clear: its the ALQ-211(v)9 pods and NOT ALQ-211(v)4s.
The odd thing is that there still seems to be a discrepancy regarding the actual number being supplied with some media reporting 21 units, while others as 18 units. For the same number of units, the total cost for the package is also being cited as $49m by some sources while others $75m, yet others at $78m. Which is it?
In either case, it doesn't make sense since PAF has almost 36+ F-16 A/Bs - all of them destined for upgrade to Block 52 standard; then why only 18/21 AIDEWS pods? Of course, the assumption is that the newly built 18 F-16 C/D Block 52s already have ALQ-211(v)9 pods unless these new pods are a late addition to the 'newly' built 18 aircraft..?
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With passion and sacrifice, comes freedom!
Well this makes at least one thing clear: its the ALQ-211(v)9 pods and NOT ALQ-211(v)4s.
The odd thing is that there still seems to be a discrepancy regarding the actual number being supplied with some media reporting 21 units, while others as 18 units. For the same number of units, the total cost for the package is also being cited as $49m by some sources while others $75m, yet others at $78m. Which is it?
In either case, it doesn't make sense since PAF has almost 36+ F-16 A/Bs - all of them destined for upgrade to Block 52 standard; then why only 18/21 AIDEWS pods? Of course, the assumption is that the newly built 18 F-16 C/D Block 52s already have ALQ-211(v)9 pods unless these new pods are a late addition to the 'newly' built 18 aircraft..?
I imagine the new-builds have the system internally and don't need the "pods". I can see the POV that carrying the system in an external pod, reduces the integration and reduces the timeframe to install the equipment, plus pods allow you to move between aircraft.
As to the numbers, with a fleet of 36 aircraft, probably not many more than 20 or so will be combat coded at any one time, so there is no real need for more than this number, just to equip training or maintenance pool aircraft or sit around in a warehouse...
According to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) it has flown more than 5,500 strike sorties over the country’s troubled tribal regions since May 2008. In a rare glimpse into Pakistan’s attempt to counter domestic terrorism from the air, the commander of the PAF described some lessons learned to the Air Chiefs Conference here in Dubai on Saturday.
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The PAF has completely overhauled its tactics and techniques for the conduct of irregular warfare, Suleiman said. All of the squadrons were put through a training program over a four-month period. Laser-guided bombs have been used in 80 percent of the PAF strikes, the PAF chief revealed. Avoiding collateral damage was a primary concern, he explained, “especially since we were engaging targets within our own country. We engage isolated structures only, away from populated areas.”
More than 10,600 bombs have been dropped, and 4,600 targets destroyed, he said. The PAF has flown more than 500 F-16 sorties with the DB-110 pod, and 650 with the Star Safire EO/IR sensor on the C-130.
Now this is the story that hasn't been retold much. 10,600 bombs in 3 years, that's like 9 bombs a day, pretty intense for irregular warfare.
The leading Israeli manufacturer of tankers, aircraft refuelers, fire fighting trucks, armored vehicles and special purpose trailers, Hatehof Ltd., reportedly provides Pakistan's Air Force with military equipment under a clandestine contract.
Nearly a month ago, 11 aircraft refueling trucks departed Hatehof's plant in the Tzippori industrial zone in Galilee region, situated 6 kilometers (3.7 miles) northwest of Nazareth, for the Port of Ashdod, located about 40 kilometers (24 miles) south of Tel Aviv, in the dead of the night.
The trucks were later boarded on a cargo ship in the Ashdod Port and dispatched to Turkey from where they were transported to Pakistan, according to a recent report aired on Israel's Channel 2 television network.
The report comes as the Israeli firm has sent several convoys of aircraft refueling trucks to Pakistan in order to equip the Muslim states' Air Force.
Under an agreement reached between Hatehof Ltd. and BMC -- one of the largest commercial vehicle manufacturers in Turkey, truck chassis are sent to Israel to be converted into aircraft refueling trucks for Pakistan's Air Force.
A secret deal just for aircraft refueling trucks?
________________ "It is better to accept an end with a horror then face horror with no end." - Karl Von Clausewitz
On another note, this was reported in the news media some time last week; I wonder what the specifics are..
J-10 fighter planes, 6 sub-marines for Pakistan as Sino-Pak talks underway
Islamabad: Putting aside international pressure, China has assured Pakistan to continue work on two nuclear power plants of Chashma 3 and Chashma 4.
In addition, talks are underway between the two states over delivery of latest J-10 fighter plane and six submarines to Pakistan.
Pakistan officials viewed that at present Sino-Pak ties were at their best promoting strategic cooperation between the two.
China had announced the plan to set up two new nuclear power plants in Pakistan two years back in April 2010.
For last many years, joint military exercises of Pakistan and Chinese armies are being held regularly. A trend of extensive cooperation in defence production has also been witnessed given international and regional scenario.
Officials stated presently China is collaborating with Pakistan on JF-17 Thunder fighter plane, K-8 Karakuram planes, Airborne Warning and Control System and missile.
I was under the impression that THREE German U-214 boats had been selected by PN; but now SIX of Chinese origin sounds like a curve-ball.. J-10s, probably a squadron by 2015?
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With passion and sacrifice, comes freedom!
It's interesting that JF-17 has a 1,352 km combat radius. I assume this is with 3 drop tanks?
Again, expand on your point. We don't allow (in general) one liner posts on this forum.
Why do you find it interesting that JF-17 has a combat radius of 1,352k's? Where do you get this figure from? It's rather large for such a small fighter, also please don't confuse terms. Radius and range have rather different meanings...
Again, expand on your point. We don't allow (in general) one liner posts on this forum.
Why do you find it interesting that JF-17 has a combat radius of 1,352k's? Where do you get this figure from? It's rather large for such a small fighter, also please don't confuse terms. Radius and range have rather different meanings...
I don't have the capability of posting links at the moment. A simple google search yields JF-17's combat radius being 1,352 km. It's actually not too much for a 21st century jet. Rafale has over 1,800 km combat radius and Typhoon has nearly 1,400 km. Gripen NG gets 1,300 km.
Thunder Block 2 supposedly gets more hardpoints and aerial refueling that should increase its combat radius to well over 2,000 km.
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Originally Posted by mysterious
I doubt that report has any credibility Sabre..
On another note, this was reported in the news media some time last week; I wonder what the specifics are..
J-10 fighter planes, 6 sub-marines for Pakistan as Sino-Pak talks underway
Great news indeed if true. Should be J-10Bs rather than second-hand J-10As. J-10B is vastly superior to F-16 Block 52 which is the best PAF can get from the USA.
Last edited by OPSSG; March 29th, 2012 at 03:03 PM.
Reason: 2 posts combined into 1
I don't have the capability of posting links at the moment. A simple google search yields JF-17's combat radius being 1,352 km. It's actually not too much for a 21st century jet. Rafale has over 1,800 km combat radius and Typhoon has nearly 1,400 km. Gripen NG gets 1,300 km.
Thunder Block 2 supposedly gets more hardpoints and aerial refueling that should increase its combat radius to well over 2,000 km.
That's better. It's true, you don't have the capacity to post links at present but you can still quote sources, ie read this paragraph at Janes:
"xxxxxxx"
Those radius and range figures are rather nebulous and not worth getting too excited about. The reason there's not much point getting excited about them, is because they are meaningless without considering what the assumptions behind them might be.
1352k combat radius, with what external loads? At what altitudes or combination of altitudes (hi lo hi - hi, hi, hi etc)? At what speeds and types of missions (lightly loaded interception missions or heavily loaded long range strike missions)?
The given combat radius for the F-16 for instance is 550k's. Seems a bit ordinary compared to the JF-17 doesn't it? Especially when the F-16 can carry more than 2000lbs greater internal fuel than the JF-17. So how do we solve this apparent conundrum?
Because the combat radius figure for the F-16C Block 30, assumes a hi lo hi flight profile, whilst carrying 6x 1000lb bombs and a pair of wingtip AAM's.
I suspect that 1352k "combat" radius is probably the best achievable combat radius with the most amount of fuel (including external fuel tanks) carried and limited to no ordnance beyond a pair of wingtip AAM's.
The JF-17 undoubtedly has sufficient range for it's operational role. That is enough for the users of the aircraft and should be good enough for everyone else too.
I don't have the capability of posting links at the moment. A simple google search yields JF-17's combat radius being 1,352 km. It's actually not too much for a 21st century jet. Rafale has over 1,800 km combat radius and Typhoon has nearly 1,400 km. Gripen NG gets 1,300 km.
Thunder Block 2 supposedly gets more hardpoints and aerial refueling that should increase its combat radius to well over 2,000 km.
From an aircraft recognition guide, the JF-17 has a radius of action of ~1,200 km. That same Jane's/Smithsonian guide lists the Rafale with a RoA of 1,055 km, the Typhoon RoA in a GA config of 1,389 km and the Gripen with a RoA of 800 km. Keep in mind that the Gripen NG is still a 'paper' airplane in that there is no flying prototype yet apart from a modified Gripen-D to test some of the avionics.
The question therefore is what is the JF-17 configuration or mission role for the RoA given.
-Cheers
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"I'm doing the same thing I do every night, Pinky..." comment from one lab mouse to another.
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J-10B is vastly superior to F-16 Block 52 which is the best PAF can get from the USA.
