Go Back   Defense Technology & Military Forum > Global Defense & Military > Air Force & Aviation
Forgot Password? Join Us! Its's free!

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures

Miramar_14_M1A1_0419a.JPG

Miramar_14_MV-22_1759a.JPG

Nellis_14_2500-1.JPG

Nellis_14_2495-1.JPG
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence







Recent Photos - DefenceTalk Military Gallery





New Chinese 5th Generatio Aircraft

This is a discussion on New Chinese 5th Generatio Aircraft within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Comrade69 So from what I understand the J-21 "snowy owl" is now the J-31? I watched the ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old November 7th, 2012   #31
Defense Professional / Analyst
Corporal
No Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 146
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade69 View Post
So from what I understand the J-21 "snowy owl" is now the J-31?

I watched the test flight and read up on it...and I am confused.

Why are the Chinese now trying to put up a second 5th gen fighter in the air when they cant even get their first one up? Are they abandoning the J-20? Because IMO that plane is not even 5th gen...just a 4++ gen with a 5th gen sticker on it..

On top of that the J-31 uses the RD-93 engines(you would think they would get their engine game up before trying to attempt to make a second 5th gen fighter).

Its funny wiki put this up:
With the maiden test flight of the prototype No.31001 on October 31, 2012, China moved ahead of Russia to become the second nation after the United States to have field-tested two stealth fighter designs

Ya..well at least the Pak-FA is a more realistic 5th gen fighter and has a lot more higher chance of being put out on the production line and sooner as well...
Several thoughts have been put out:
1). The J-20, as RobWilliams notes, is being built for a different purpose (land-based strike, equivalent to more what the F-35 is going to do-or at least have the capability to do), while the J-31 is going to be more for Carrier-operations.
2). The J-31 might be an independent design by Shenyang AC to try and exploit a different market (or, combining with option 1, where they expect a future market-PLAN CVW-based fighters).
Blackshoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2012   #32
New Member
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 17
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshoe View Post
Several thoughts have been put out:
1). The J-20, as RobWilliams notes, is being built for a different purpose (land-based strike, equivalent to more what the F-35 is going to do-or at least have the capability to do), while the J-31 is going to be more for Carrier-operations.
2). The J-31 might be an independent design by Shenyang AC to try and exploit a different market (or, combining with option 1, where they expect a future market-PLAN CVW-based fighters).
From what I've read here, I would recommend you to have a read the similar topic in sinodefenceforum. I'm sure both Comrade69 and you will have a much better understanding of J-20 and J-31.

Here's my view:

1. J-20 is much like a combination of F22 and F35A, which means it is focused on both air-superiority and relatively longer range land attack ability for PLAAF (not the navy or army). It's larger (mainly longer) than F22, but slightly smaller than Su-27/30 (mainly shorter).

2. J-31 is to replace J-15 (which is on trail on 'Liaoning' as we speak). It will enter service later than J-20. And it's for PLAN only (not for the air force). One thing for sure there will be a carrier based version of J-31 like F35C. However, we don't know if PLAN will use it for other purpose (highly likely not). From some of the photos we see that J-31 is much smaller than J-20. Its size should be very similar to F35 if not slightly smaller.

So, I don't really see the confusion between these two planes (one for the navy/carrier, the other is for the air force). As for whose 5th gen plane will entre service first, let's wait and see. There's no point to discuss this kind of questions here. I'm sure not even their project leaders can give you an exact answer, at the moment.
kickars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2012   #33
Defense Enthusiast
Sergeant
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 246
Threads:
I couldn't see the Chinese buying the pak-fa now that india is buying it.whats the point in buying an aircraft thats the same as one of your enemies,thats why they have got to build their own aircraft.Also the j-15 isn't going to be an ideal carrier aircraft its too heavy and can't take off with full payload its ok to get an aircraft to train up on and by the time they have built their own cv's the j-10 probably wouldn't be an option either.Am i the only one that thinks with all this assistance that Russia has shown China in the past that they have shot themselves in the foot.
the concerned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2012   #34
Defense Enthusiast
Corporal
No Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 158
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by the concerned View Post
Am i the only one that thinks with all this assistance that Russia has shown China in the past that they have shot themselves in the foot.
I dont really see it. Chinese technology is still far behind Russian.
PLAAF still has Mig-21's patrolling their skies...I mean J-7's...
Comrade69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2012   #35
Defense Enthusiast
Master Sergeant
No Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 360
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade69 View Post
I dont really see it. Chinese technology is still far behind Russian.
PLAAF still has Mig-21's patrolling their skies...I mean J-7's...
Sure they have, but the thing is that they are moving forward with lightspeed. They just havnt had time to replace all older fighters like the J-7 and J-8 yet.
J-10 and J-11(B) will replace them in a few years I would think.
Wall83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 14th, 2012   #36
New Member
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 49
Threads:
I am surprise they didn't go single engine for their second 5th Gen to cut down cost.
luccloud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2012   #37
Defense Enthusiast
Captain
dragonfire's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 722
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by the concerned View Post
I couldn't see the Chinese buying the pak-fa now that india is buying it.whats the point in buying an aircraft thats the same as one of your enemies,thats why they have got to build their own aircraft.
The Chinese wouldnt buy the PakFa but not because of the fact that India is buying it. Both IAF and the PLAAF operate the Su-30 (Su-30 MKI for IAF and the Su-30 MKK for the PLAAF)

Having two different LO fighters the Chinese have shown determination to follow their own path for a 5th Gen Platform(s) and reports are coming in now which suggest that the J-31 might be intended for the export market which means it is going to be a direct competition for the PakFa
dragonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2012   #38
Super Moderator
Lieutenant General
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,562
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade69 View Post
I dont really see it. Chinese technology is still far behind Russian.
PLAAF still has Mig-21's patrolling their skies...I mean J-7's...
I wouldn't say far behind. You might want to look at the pace of Chinese technological and industrial advances and revise your statement somewhat... looking at the oldest fighter in their inventory isn't a very useful way of measuring where they are (and where they are rapidly going) from a technological perspective.
Bonza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2012   #39
Moderator
Major General
No Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,449
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonza View Post
I wouldn't say far behind. You might want to look at the pace of Chinese technological and industrial advances and revise your statement somewhat... looking at the oldest fighter in their inventory isn't a very useful way of measuring where they are (and where they are rapidly going) from a technological perspective.
Yup - we (UK) only stood the Canberra down in 2006, just as the late Tranches of the Tiffy were coming into service, so planning your air to air strategy based around that might have been um..challenging.
StobieWan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2012   #40
Defense Enthusiast
Captain
No Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 784
Threads:
Avic Promotes J-31 As An Export Fighter

This is a bit surprising if true, that the Chinese are not interested in acquiring the J-31 but will stick with the J-10 as a complement to the J-20. It makes one wonder why China would not want to field a pair of all-stealth 5Gen fighters ala F-22/F-35.
colay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2012   #41
Grumpy Old Man
General
gf0012-aust's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 14,888
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by colay View Post
Avic Promotes J-31 As An Export Fighter

This is a bit surprising if true, that the Chinese are not interested in acquiring the J-31 but will stick with the J-10 as a complement to the J-20. It makes one wonder why China would not want to field a pair of all-stealth 5Gen fighters ala F-22/F-35.
Its not so much about the aircraft capability per se - its about the relevance of that platform to their doctrine.

Today is not tomorrow
________________
A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, says:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
http://cofda.wordpress.com/
gf0012-aust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2012   #42
Defense Enthusiast
Sergeant
No Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: central illinois
Posts: 271
Threads:
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by colay View Post
Avic Promotes J-31 As An Export Fighter

This is a bit surprising if true, that the Chinese are not interested in acquiring the J-31 but will stick with the J-10 as a complement to the J-20. It makes one wonder why China would not want to field a pair of all-stealth 5Gen fighters ala F-22/F-35.
I myself am a bit surprised as well, but the J-31 has been seen by some as an independant project by Shenyang, I do see them continuing to promote this aircraft as a naval follow on to the J-15, but throwing her up to export, they may be hoping to generate some funds for further prototyping and developement, and I firmly believe they will want to upgrade her to the WS-13 or some other domestic powerplant in order to take full advantage of her potential.

This also would be a competitor to the T-50 in the export market which could play well at home, if they find a "partner" to share developement and production costs IE the F-35 as well as the T-50 partnerships, Shenyang realizes that could be an important economic factor if they hope to get the J-31 into serial production. Cheers AFB
Air Force Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2012   #43
Grumpy Old Man
General
gf0012-aust's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 14,888
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Force Brat View Post
I myself am a bit surprised as well, but the J-31 has been seen by some as an independant project by Shenyang
no such thing as "independant" weapons development on the mainland
________________
A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, says:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
http://cofda.wordpress.com/
gf0012-aust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2012   #44
Defense Enthusiast
Sergeant
No Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: central illinois
Posts: 271
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
no such thing as "independant" weapons development on the mainland
Not in the true sense of the word of course, but the PLAAF doesn't seem to have an interest in the J-31, and while I believe the PLAN may, their is no "official" involvement by either that we know of? With AVIC putting it out for export, it does strike me as a little different approach for Shenyang? I guess I would love to know your opinion gf, who might be in the market?
Air Force Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2012   #45
Defense Enthusiast
Captain
dragonfire's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 722
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Force Brat View Post
Not in the true sense of the word of course, but the PLAAF doesn't seem to have an interest in the J-31, and while I believe the PLAN may, their is no "official" involvement by either that we know of? With AVIC putting it out for export, it does strike me as a little different approach for Shenyang? I guess I would love to know your opinion gf, who might be in the market?
My 2 cents

Basis speculation only

The J-31 and the J-20 will both operate in the PLAAF, once they mature ofcourse, the aircraft designs suggest a complementary role to each other because one looks like a heavy load strike platform and the other has a lot of Air Superiority features.

Even if a export option is considered for the J-31 the Chinese wouldnt be really be able to compete in the global market seriously if they dont use it themself. The level of independence of a Military development agency like Shenyang has already been articulated by GF a couple of posts back.

What would be interesting also to understand from Sages of the forum is the possibility of the J-31 becoming a carrier based fighter
dragonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:38 AM.