mirage2000 out of iaf race for mrca

[aaaditya]

hey guys this came in an interesting article that dassault has withdrawn its mirage2000-5 from the indian mrca tender and has shut down the production line ,here is the link:

http://www.ibnlive.com/article.php?id=4758

well guys the number of competitors is now down to 5 and the chances for the mig35 and the sh have definitely improved.

seems that this the end of the m2000-5 market.

 

[XEROX]

Intresting, i think the descision on the MRCA will undoubtly come from the political level, for 126 a/c the eurofighter and Rafale may be to expensive.

I wouldnt be comftable with just russian gear, the air force needs to diversify but at the same time be able maintain the a/c effectivly

My best bet would be the Hornets, but if the price for the Rafale can be reduced (India buys more Airbus:kar) then who knows.......

 

[ajaybhutani]

Intresting, i think the descision on the MRCA will undoubtly come from the political level, for 126 a/c the eurofighter and Rafale may be to expensive.

I wouldnt be comftable with just russian gear, the air force needs to diversify but at the same time be able maintain the a/c effectivly

My best bet would be the Hornets, but if the price for the Rafale can be reduced (India buys more Airbus:kar) then who knows.......

wont the hornets cost similar as EF2000/rafale.. ?

 

[aaaditya]

wont the hornets cost similar as EF2000/rafale.. ?

no,i believe that the hornets would be cheaper ,since they are not a new design but a major modification of an older design,however the problem is that india has no experience or infrastructure when iot comes to operating a american aircraft hence setting up the requisite facilities will cost more to india.

 

[ajaybhutani]

no,i believe that the hornets would be cheaper ,since they are not a new design but a major modification of an older design,however the problem is that india has no experience or infrastructure when iot comes to operating a american aircraft hence setting up the requisite facilities will cost more to india.

i meant that we will need to purchase much more with F18.( like missiles etc..) non of the russian ones will work with it.. and americans wont give us the code.. which shud be easier with stuff like rafale(as we know that we integrated R73/77 ( i dont remember which one) with M2K's .. ).. french will not mind giving the source codes.. ?

 

[LancerMc]

The F/A-18E/F while sharing the same name and number as it predcessor share little in common beside resemblance. The Super Hornet would be cheaper then the Eurofighter and Rafale if India was to buy the current lot type for the U.S. Navy. Most likely Boeing will offer the newest model that includes AESA radar and the newest ground attack muntions. This bring will bring the aircraft closer to the price of the Eurofighter and Rafale.

Personally I think for India to buy any American planes mite be streching their logistics with opperating Russian, American, French, and British fighter and attack aircraft all at once.

 

[tphuang]

actually, I would think Rafale and super hornet's costs are comparable. Maybe someone can correct me on this. F-18E/F should be cost about 80 million each? and that's not counting the AAMs and AShMs. I remember reading Rafale costing 69 million each. I think a combination of Rafale and Mig-35 is the best choice here. Rafale beats typhoon here, because it has better multi-role capabilities.

 

[ajaybhutani]

actually, I would think Rafale and super hornet's costs are comparable. Maybe someone can correct me on this. F-18E/F should be cost about 80 million each? and that's not counting the AAMs and AShMs. I remember reading Rafale costing 69 million each. I think a combination of Rafale and Mig-35 is the best choice here. Rafale beats typhoon here, because it has better multi-role capabilities.

is there a confirmed report that india is looking to share the contract into two parties.?
i do agree with rafale and mig35 as better choices as we can get them faster too.
mig35 as we get a joint production and a good amount of tech... and again russians can deliver good no's in a year without a problem..
rafale.. as french are desperate to sell rafale and they wont find a better change than this
so good ToT &/or joint production( to cut costs of this plane for other customers.. making it more attractive) is possible..
ef2000 has already too many orders.. and f18 has too many strings.. we cant really get a good deal out of them.. though the engines are surely a good part of these planes if we get a ToT.

 

[ajaybhutani]

The F/A-18E/F while sharing the same name and number as it predcessor share little in common beside resemblance. The Super Hornet would be cheaper then the Eurofighter and Rafale if India was to buy the current lot type for the U.S. Navy. Most likely Boeing will offer the newest model that includes AESA radar and the newest ground attack muntions. This bring will bring the aircraft closer to the price of the Eurofighter and Rafale.

Personally I think for India to buy any American planes mite be streching their logistics with opperating Russian, American, French, and British fighter and attack aircraft all at once.

thats true.. they will force us to buy AMRAAM etc and we can only put them on these planes.. maintaining saperate missile & bomb arsenal is surely a big logistic headache. apart from that restrictions like cannot have common parts with mki/lca/mig29 etc can also be asserted increasing maintainence cost..

 

[tphuang]

is there a confirmed report that india is looking to share the contract into two parties.?
i do agree with rafale and mig35 as better choices as we can get them faster too.
mig35 as we get a joint production and a good amount of tech... and again russians can deliver good no's in a year without a problem..
rafale.. as french are desperate to sell rafale and they wont find a better change than this
so good ToT &/or joint production( to cut costs of this plane for other customers.. making it more attractive) is possible..
ef2000 has already too many orders.. and f18 has too many strings.. we cant really get a good deal out of them.. though the engines are surely a good part of these planes if we get a ToT.

well, the thing with Rafale is that the level of ToT is probably not going to be that high. The French probably would not be too keen in giving away all of its latest secrets and such. Whereas, you would get a full ToT with M2K most likely. Mig-35 will definitely mean a full ToT with no strings attached (well, other than reliability issues, : ).

 

[P.A.F]

Why are we forgetting about the Gripen. SAAb of late have been marketing their product heavily to the indian. take a look.
http://www.newkerala.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=99032

 

[duplex]

well, the thing with Rafale is that the level of ToT is probably not going to be that high. The French probably would not be too keen in giving away all of its latest secrets and such.


I am sorry tphuang but what secrets can Rafale possibly have we already don't know about.The French have always been eager to exaggerate their possibilities.Admitted,Rafale is a fine aircraft but again it is not the best.
I believe IAF will decide in favor of a Russian fighter in the end because only the Russians can assure unrestricted supply and delivery independent of any politics.They have a good reason not to trust the US because of sanctions the US imposed on India in the past.

 

[XEROX]

The MiGs got bad reputation over its smoking engine, to me the MRCA is a long term replacment for the MiGs so really whats needed is an a/c thats still competitive in 15 years time, the MiG 29/35 may have AESA buts its got shit electronics and sensors compared with the super hornets and EF/Rafale.

p.s. i have read some were the total cost of the Rafale with complete set of sensers and weapons package is $145million imp

 

[LancerMc]

For clarification the F/A-18 E/F cost around $48 million dollars each, so I would think the newer version with AESA world probably cost around slightly more then $50 million dollars.

 

[aaaditya]

it is claimed that the rafale costs 65million dollars naked and 145million dollars with full load of sensors and weapons,no wonder this excellent aircraft has found no takers.

 

[tphuang]

For clarification the F/A-18 E/F cost around $48 million dollars each, so I would think the newer version with AESA world probably cost around slightly more then $50 million dollars.

F-16 E/F cost 80 million each for Saudi Arabia. F-16 block 50+ cost 67 million each for Greece.

 

[pshamim]

As per a recent article in the LA Times(10/2005) quoting Global Security, The Super Hornet costs $95 Million each in current Dollars when the development costs are added.

However, my opinion is that picking up the US planes will be more of a political decision. Cost of induction of Super Hornet will be at least 2-1/2 times more besides the cost of a plane.

I feel that the total cost of acquiring and induction will be around 4 Billion not counting the weapons cost.

 

[aaaditya]

As per a recent article in the LA Times(10/2005) quoting Global Security, The Super Hornet costs $95 Million each in current Dollars when the development costs are added.

However, my opinion is that picking up the US planes will be more of a political decision. Cost of induction of Super Hornet will be at least 2-1/2 times more besides the cost of a plane.

I feel that the total cost of acquiring and induction will be around 4 Billion not counting the weapons cost.

any idea what would the cost of mig35 and the jas39c gripen would be with a full set of weapons?

 

[pshamim]

As per a recent article in the LA Times(10/2005) quoting Global Security, The Super Hornet costs $95 Million each in current Dollars when the development costs are added.

However, my opinion is that picking up the US planes will be more of a political decision. Cost of induction of Super Hornet will be at least 2-1/2 times more besides the cost of a plane.

I feel that the total cost of acquiring and induction will be around 4 Billion not counting the weapons cost.

My apologies. Total cost of F-18 E/F in IAF will touch $40 Billion not 4 Billion as posted earlier by me. My mistake.

 

[tphuang]

any idea what would the cost of mig35 and the jas39c gripen would be with a full set of weapons?

Based on the recent Algerian purchase, 40 mig-29smt for 1.5 billion. I'm guessing you are looking at 40 million each. Gripen would probably be similar. However, I think Gripen really does not fit IAF's requirement, since it is designed for a country with small airspace.