MiG-29 Still Grounded

[Feanor]

The MiG-29 fleet is running out of airframe life, as a result after the recent accident, most of the fleet still remains grounded, with a special technical commission evaluating the remaining airplanes on a case by case basis.

http://kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1113994

Around 200 airplanes are still grounded, which makes for about 1/3 of the VVS jet fighters. While the 34 Algerian SMTs and UBs are due to come in this year, they can hardly make up for the dent this puts in the VVS numbers.

 

[dragonfire]

Arent any major fighter aircraft acquisitions been announced for the RuAF, i have read some back and forth dicussion on DT, anything finalised

 

[macman]

Are they going to launch an upgrade program for them?

Imagine many of the Mig-29's in RuAF have less hours on them than the Indian's, but I suspect it's just that they haven't been a high priority for the Russian's so maintenance & upkeep has been spotty.

Would think a full upgrade program, starting from a similar base as the one that they are doing for the Indian's, would be highly suitable.

The Indian's are paying around $14 million per plane for a complete overhaul, new engines & radar's, modifying the airframe for greater fuel capacity, new avionics suite that includes a lot of Western stuff, as well as extending service life for something like 20,000 hours & maintenance reduced 2 & 1/2 times.

This price includes upgraded training & support equipment as well as ToT for a lot of stuff.


For a big order for themselves, using all Russian gear (mostly avionics from the Mig-35, & starting off with the previous radar & moving on to the AE once fully developed), imagine the average price would be around $10 million, which would include upgraded training & maintenance facilities.


Think there is a very good case for upgrading 150 or so of them, which would be around the $1.5 billion mark.
Spread it over 4 years or so, upgrading 36 planes or so a year, it would make a solid, effective backbone that would be viable in roles to around 2030 or later, filling a much needed niche.
Cheap at the price, even if it comes to $2 billion to really bring them up to scratch.

 

[Feanor]

I doubt RSK MiG is up to the upgrade order. They are hardly in good shape. Though maybe it is an option. Right now flight are slowly being resumed with some of the planes, via case by case inspections.

 

[nevidimka]

I think its a result of neglecting the Mig 29's and only concentrating the upgrades on the Su 27's.

 

[Feanor]

Well the question is.... can MiG perform the order if it gets the financing? I mean NAPO hasn't managed to produce an more Fullbacks, even though financing hasn't been a major issue. The production facility is just in very bad shape.

 

[macman]

Where are the order for the of the upgrades to the Indian Mig's done?
Previous SMT orders?

All at NAPO?

 

[swerve]

Well the question is.... can MiG perform the order if it gets the financing? .... The production facility is just in very bad shape.

(A little off topic) -

For me, this is the killer for the IAF MMRCA order. I think there is too much risk of MiG not being able to meet the order. There is both development risk, & production risk. Too big a gamble.

 

[Feanor]

Where are the order for the of the upgrades to the Indian Mig's done?
Previous SMT orders?

All at NAPO?

I'm not sure. NAPO produces Su-24M2, and Su-34. Iirc it's a member of the Sukhoi group. I would think Sokol, since it's the plant designated for the MiG-29M2/MiG-35.

(A little off topic) -

For me, this is the killer for the IAF MMRCA order. I think there is too much risk of MiG not being able to meet the order. There is both development risk, & production risk. Too big a gamble.

I suspect that the order is large enough to pay for refurbishing the production facilities. Iirc that's what happened with the T-90S deal and UVZ back in '99, where after getting money from India for a large order, it was also able to carry out small orders for our MoD.

 

[SkolZkiy]

I've read on one of RU Forums comments of pilot of RuAF who flies on MiG-29
He posted that finance situation and situation with fuel is not so bad - but now with this problems with airframes most of AC are grounded. But situation as he thinks is not so bad, specialists are now checking each airframe and do what they can to restore them.

 

[SkolZkiy]

http://www.rian.ru/defense_safety/20090211/161778523.html

Frequent accidents involving MiG associated with high aircraft's age, and not to its quality, the journalist said on Wednesday Chief Experimental Design Bureau MiG RSK Alexei Litvinovich.

Also I can point this.

Litvinovich also said that currently the RSK "MiG" and is developing a fifth generation aircraft. "At present, therefore the development is to advances the project, and how many fifth-generation aircraft, and when they are developed - a military secret," - he added.

The company "Sukhoi" the development of this project is faster, but as explained the Chief of Bureau, there developed another type of aircraft - more overall and long-range, while the "MiGe" - a lighter.

 

[nevidimka]

Does that mean MiG is developing a light 5th gen fighter independently? Where are they getting the money to do the work? Or does he mean the unmanned Skat?

 

[Feanor]

And it looks like the MiG-35 will be purchased for the VVS afterall.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=66416&cid=25

Vice-General Director of RSK MiG said that the MiG-35 will be part of the "gosobornzakaz" (state defense order) and the realization of the program may begin in 3 years. He also says that initially purchases of the MiG-29M were planned but they were cancelled due to financial difficulties.

I'm thinking that whoever planned this order may have known about airframe life issues with the existing Fulcrum fleet, and hence planned to induct a replacement before the PAK-FA.

EDIT: It looks like there are also plans for purchasing MiG-29KUB for the VMF. How many is unclear.

http://rian.ru/defense_safety/20090211/161802878.html

So to recap, earlier this year there was a statement about 10 SMTs joining the VVS. We also have 24 Algerian SMTs, and a potential of several MiG-29KUB. And we have confirmation that the MiG-35 will be bought for the VVS. Quite an eventful year for MiG.

And here we have another article that states that in 4 years Russian "can" receive the first MiG-35.

http://rian.ru/defense_safety/20090211/161775353.html

 

[nevidimka]

And here comes more lifeline for MiG.

http://www.en.rian.ru/russia/20090211/120093470.html

http://www.en.rian.ru/russia/20090211/120095365.html

This naval fighter may join the Kutznetsov b4 the new carrier is built, if it is built.