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How good are the Israeli Airforce pilots?

This is a discussion on How good are the Israeli Airforce pilots? within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; no offence to anybody but i would like to use a qoute.... Airforces Monthly Article in the May 1993 issue ...


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Old September 6th, 2006   #31
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no offence to anybody but i would like to use a qoute....

Airforces Monthly
Article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47 by Sergey Vekhov)
"As an air defence analyst, I am fully aware that the Pakistan Air Force ranks today as one of the best air forces in the world and that the PAF Combat Commanders' School (CCS) in Sargodha has been ranked as the best GCI/pilot and fighter tactics and weapons school in the world". As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1997, "it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind".

"PAF pilots managed to shoot down ten Israeli aircraft, including Mirages, Mystères and Vautours, without losses on their own side. The PAF pilots operated with Egyptian, Jordanese and Iraqi combat aircraft." scramble.nl
ratio 0-10???
my point is arab airforces suffered more casulties due to lack of poor traning, and no offence to any body, in battle field they were more like flying ducks..isreali pilots did have huge edge over these countrys but when it come to best pilot vs best pilot, pakistan has an edge...
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Old September 6th, 2006   #32
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Hmmmmm

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Originally Posted by saberII
no offence to anybody but i would like to use a qoute....

Airforces Monthly
Article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47 by Sergey Vekhov)
"As an air defence analyst, I am fully aware that the Pakistan Air Force ranks today as one of the best air forces in the world and that the PAF Combat Commanders' School (CCS) in Sargodha has been ranked as the best GCI/pilot and fighter tactics and weapons school in the world". As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1997, "it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind".

"PAF pilots managed to shoot down ten Israeli aircraft, including Mirages, Mystères and Vautours, without losses on their own side. The PAF pilots operated with Egyptian, Jordanese and Iraqi combat aircraft." scramble.nl
ratio 0-10???
my point is arab airforces suffered more casulties due to lack of poor traning, and no offence to any body, in battle field they were more like flying ducks..isreali pilots did have huge edge over these countrys but when it come to best pilot vs best pilot, pakistan has an edge...
How good are Israeli Pilots ? hmm such discussions most of the time end up in verbal spats as a result of nationalism shown by forum jockies (post above is such an example).Anyways I will too give it a try.IMO any AF that conducts frequent exercises with USAF and having a similar establishment in terms of grooming and training of pilots coupled with the state of the art A/C and AAM's surely will have a potent AF.And everyone knows Israeli AF is among the few who have seen action in 21st century.Israel's geographical position,size and neighbours make her extremely vulnerable to conflicts and hence their AF is battle ready 24*365 hours a year.I think they do have some top of the line pilots from the globe.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #33
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Mod edit: Off-topic B.S. This thread is about Israel. Not PAF v Indian AF. AD.

Last edited by Aussie Digger; September 6th, 2006 at 09:39 PM.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #34
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Mod edit: Off-topic B.S. This thread is about Israel. Not PAF v Indian AF. AD.

Last edited by Aussie Digger; September 6th, 2006 at 09:38 PM.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #35
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From what I have heard about the IAF's pilots, is that they are pretty damn good. Like previous statements, the IAF's has done extremely well in war games against the USAF and USN, I have heard kill ratios in the order of 1to10 or 1to20 during the games. While there was no air to air combat in the recent Lebanon conflict, more information about how successful their ground attacks missions will probably be coming out in the near future. I would think here in a couple of months will have better idea about their capabilities. Don't forget their vast access to combat veterans who can provide very important combat experience for their younger pilots.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #36
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Mod edit: Off-topic B.S. This thread is about Israel. Not PAF v Indian AF. AD.

Last edited by Aussie Digger; September 6th, 2006 at 09:36 PM.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #37
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"TOPGUN was formerly known officially as the United States Navy Fighter Weapons School, and was established on March 3, 1969 at NAS Miramar, California after a United States Navy report recommended that a graduate-level school be established to train Fleet fighter pilots in air combat tactics to counter the relatively poor air combat performance being experienced by Navy aircrews over Vietnam."

Dude always double check, especially if you want to refer to wikipedia . TOPGUN was relocated to Fallon Naval Air Station, about 60 miles from Reno in 1996.

This thread is about Israeli Air force pilots. Just wondering how come PAF and IAF pilots got in to this

Last edited by kams; September 6th, 2006 at 11:23 AM.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #38
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"They had about five hundred airplanes, more than half of them Sabres and 104 Starfighters, a few B-57 bombers, and about a hundred Chinese MiG-19s. They were really good, aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying.The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own."
(General (Retd.) Chuck Yeager (USAF) , Book: Yeager, the Autobiography).
Yeager obviously preferred remembered rumours to fact-checking. Those numbers!
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Old September 6th, 2006   #39
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i dont want to Escalate this topic into some kind of flame, but a question.. r u american????
source wikipedia...
"TOPGUN was formerly known officially as the United States Navy Fighter Weapons School, and was established on March 3, 1969 at NAS Miramar, California after a United States Navy report recommended that a graduate-level school be established to train Fleet fighter pilots in air combat tactics to counter the relatively poor air combat performance being experienced by Navy aircrews over Vietnam."
Do you know how long ago that was? There used to be an Army Air Corp instead of the USAF but it doesn't mean it still exists. It hasn't been called Navy Fighter Weapons School in ages. It is the SFTI course (Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor). It moved from Marinmar to Fallon well over a decade ago. My problem isn't that your info is out of date, it's that you claim it to come from a prominent US defense analyist that you personally talked to. It means your blowing smoke up my ass b/c any professional defense analyist would know this little bit of info. I'm thinking everything you know about SFTI came from the movie TOPGUN. If you had read wikipedia you would know everything I just said!!!


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Originally Posted by saberII
Jane's International Defense (June 24, 1998)
The PAF, although outnumbered by IAF, has at least one qualitative edge over its rival: Pilot Training. The caliber of Pakistani instructors is acknowledged by numerous air forces, and US Navy pilots considered them to be highly 'professionals' during exercises flying off the USS Constellation (as co-pilots).
Yeah, I remember Inspired Alert... you know when USN pilots call someone "highly professional" all that means is their flying... period. It doesn't mean ANYTHING special. I doubt Jane published an article declaring PAF superior to the IAF. Why would they even bother to compare them?
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Old September 6th, 2006   #40
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Mod edit: Off-topic B.S. This thread is about Israel. Not PAF v Indian AF. Or the present location of Top Gun. AD.

Last edited by Aussie Digger; September 6th, 2006 at 09:41 PM.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #41
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Right, but the quote you said was wrong was from 1993, i.e. when it was still in Miramar. So that particular part of your criticism of it was - aaah - imprecise.

Principle's right, though.
No no, he said immediatly after that

"As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1997, "it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind.

That's what I'm refering to, in 97' Miramar belonged to the Marine Corps.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #42
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No no, he said immediatly after that

"As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1997, "it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind.

That's what I'm refering to, in 97' Miramar belonged to the Marine Corps.
Yep, TOPGUN shifted in May 1996.

topgun shifted to Nevada

Quote:
May 30, 1996
Web posted at: 1 a.m. EDT

From Correspondent Charles Feldman

SAN DIEGO (CNN) -- In a bid to consolidate operations, the Top Gun flying school, popularized by the hit movie of the same name, relocated its pilots and planes to Nevada. Wednesday, the school's last planes took off from the Miramar Naval Air Base in San Diego for the last time.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #43
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No no, he said immediatly after that

"As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1997, "it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind.

That's what I'm refering to, in 97' Miramar belonged to the Marine Corps.
Ah, missed that.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #44
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Mod edit: Off-topic B.S. This thread is about Israel. Not PAF v Indian AF. AD.

Last edited by Aussie Digger; September 6th, 2006 at 09:35 PM.
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Old September 6th, 2006   #45
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Mod edit: Off-topic B.S. This thread is about Israel. Not PAF v Indian AF. AD.

Last edited by Aussie Digger; September 6th, 2006 at 09:35 PM.
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