F-18 Hornets for the MX Air Force?

[Centauro]

Yep, there is a big rumor going on inside the military community in Mexico saying that the Air Force will be receiving 40 F-18s ex- us navy with complete overhaul and new avionics, the project is 90% complete according to a MX Air Force member . He was the same one who said the Air force was going to buy PC-9s when nobody belived him, and months later we see them with MX Air force insignias. Acoording to him they would be spared in 3 tactical air bases: IXTEPEC,TUXTLA and COZUMEL. The training base would be in Ensenada. These planes would substitute the old F-5s.

Could this be part of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America? ,Canada-Mexico-USA.

The navy with SU-27s and the Air Force ( army) with F-18s that would be awesome to see.

 

[swerve]

Well, the Air Force need to do something, or they'll end up smaller & weaker than the naval air force. The humiliation would be unbearable. Remember: the real enemy of the Mexican Air Force is internal, & not insurgents. It's the Navy!

How many countries only have arms races between their own forces?

 

[Centauro]

Yeah its no secret that the Navy and Army don't like each other. But its not like a war is going to starst between them.

 

[Waylander]

How many countries only have arms races between their own forces?

Nearly every country which has all three branches which are worth the name.

 

[swerve]

Nearly every country which has all three branches which are worth the name.

The word "only" was the important one. Most other countries also have arms races with someone else.

 

[LancerMc]

It would be a little weird if the Mexican Navy will be flying an aircraft built for an air force, and the Mexican AF will fly an aicraft designed for carrier operations.

 

[contedicavour]

It would be a little weird if the Mexican Navy will be flying an aircraft built for an air force, and the Mexican AF will fly an aicraft designed for carrier operations.

Fully agree. The Navy should just dumpt the Flanker deal and align with the air force on a F18 buy. Otherwise it will be too expensive to maintain 2 totally different fighter types ...

Would the F18s be equipped with Amraams ? IIRC the oldest F18A/B didn't carry them. It would be significant since it would be the first Latin American country to carry them (unless Chile has them on the new F16s, but nobody is able to confirm this)

cheers

 

[isthvan]

I have some doubts about this deal. I was under impression that early ex. USN F-18s are quite worn out and that they are basically at the end of operational life... Wouldn't it be better for air force to buy some low mileage ex. USAF F-16s. They would probably cost less and be cheaper to maintain... On other hand I bet that Russians would be quite happy if air force also buys Flankers...

 

[contedicavour]

I have some doubts about this deal. I was under impression that early ex. USN F-18s are quite worn out and that they are basically at the end of operational life... Wouldn't it be better for air force to buy some low mileage ex. USAF F-16s. They would probably cost less and be cheaper to maintain... On other hand I bet that Russians would be quite happy if air force also buys Flankers...

AFAIK the Hornets have a better autonomy than the Falcons. Given the size of the Mexican airspace, 2-engine Hornets are more suitable and more comparable to the Flankers.

cheers

 

[Britalian]

F/A18's for Mex A.F.

This is a foolish idea. F/A18's also have ground-attack capability. They can also carry anti-ship missiles, which don't have to be Harpoon. (I'm quite sure that, like Mig21's which have been modified to accept western avionics and weapons, F/A18's can be modified to carry non-American SSM's)
The present state of affairs, in which the Mexican AF is incapable of supporting more than local ground operations by Mex. Army should be maintained.
Their air fleet is adequate for countering internal enemies; putting even 25-year old, refurbished high-performance aircraft into their hands might give people with Reconquista dreams the idea that perhaps it is not a dream.

 

[contedicavour]

This is a foolish idea. F/A18's also have ground-attack capability. They can also carry anti-ship missiles, which don't have to be Harpoon. (I'm quite sure that, like Mig21's which have been modified to accept western avionics and weapons, F/A18's can be modified to carry non-American SSM's)
The present state of affairs, in which the Mexican AF is incapable of supporting more than local ground operations by Mex. Army should be maintained.
Their air fleet is adequate for countering internal enemies; putting even 25-year old, refurbished high-performance aircraft into their hands might give people with Reconquista dreams the idea that perhaps it is not a dream.

Hmm Mexico is one of only 2 remaining big-country centre-right governments in the whole of Latin America... (the other being Colombia). I doubt it makes sense to worry about potential reconquista dreams because of a few obsolescent F18s.
Let's rather worry about the ever increasing number of hard left anti-American governments being elected : Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Nicaragua, now even Ecuador. Hell, Castro may be almost dead but he must be smiling on his deathbed... :lul

cheers

 

[Britalian]

Hmm Mexico is one of only 2 remaining big-country centre-right governments in the whole of Latin America... (the other being Colombia). I doubt it makes sense to worry about potential reconquista dreams because of a few obsolescent F18s.
Let's rather worry about the ever increasing number of hard left anti-American governments being elected : Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Nicaragua, now even Ecuador. Hell, Castro may be almost dead but he must be smiling on his deathbed... :lul

cheers

Centre-right today but who can say with any certainty that this will remain the case? The difficulties they faced in their elections, in which the leftist candidate is determined to run a parallel government, will not accept defeat, and probably supports the quasi-insurgency in Oaxaca illustrates this. It is also true that being centre-right is no guarantee of peaceful solutions to a given problem.
Almost 60% of Mexicans believe the states of California, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, and parts of Oregon and Wyoming are still, and always have been, Mexican territory. It is an undercurrent of resentment that extends to the highest reaches of the Mexican Government. It is an issue upon which they are united, like Argentinians who batter one another on every issue except the Falklands. The dream of re-taking the lost territories is independent of partisan politics, conservative/liberal, left/right.
Take care.

 

[contedicavour]

Centre-right today but who can say with any certainty that this will remain the case? The difficulties they faced in their elections, in which the leftist candidate is determined to run a parallel government, will not accept defeat, and probably supports the quasi-insurgency in Oaxaca illustrates this. It is also true that being centre-right is no guarantee of peaceful solutions to a given problem.
Almost 60% of Mexicans believe the states of California, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, and parts of Oregon and Wyoming are still, and always have been, Mexican territory. It is an undercurrent of resentment that extends to the highest reaches of the Mexican Government. It is an issue upon which they are united, like Argentinians who batter one another on every issue except the Falklands. The dream of re-taking the lost territories is independent of partisan politics, conservative/liberal, left/right.
Take care.

What you say is reasonable. Though I'd bet 10,000 to 1 that most of SW United States will anyway become virtually Mexican again because of the effect of demography and immigration. The flag will remain the US' but from a cultural and linguistic standpoint the whole place is turning Mexican.
Where I'd be less worried is that Mexicans are voting with their feet, moving north in the US, which they clearly like for more than economic reasons.

Back to topic : I don't see what a few obsolescent F18A/Bs would do to the US-Mexican equilibrium of forces... though I do see what it would do to law enforcement, anti-drug activities, etc south of the border.

cheers

 

[isthvan]

AFAIK the Hornets have a better autonomy than the Falcons. Given the size of the Mexican airspace, 2-engine Hornets are more suitable and more comparable to the Flankers.

cheers

IIRC F-18A/B has slightly longer operational radius compared to F-16. On other hand Mex air force currently have around dozen operational F-5s.
40 modern fighters deployed in various airbases will greatly improve control of Mexican airspace no matter what range they have. Since F-16s would cost less, airframes would be in better condition and modernization and maintenance would be easier and cheaper I joust don’t see any reason for early F-18 purchase…

If they won’t two engine fighters they could joust join Navy Su-27 deal. I bet that Russians would give discount prices for larger order and they wouldn’t have two different fighters in inventory…

As for fears that modern fighters in Mexican inventory would somehow shift balance whit US I bet that USAF wouldn’t be concerned even if Mexico would procure double number of Typhoons… C’mon chances that Mexican horde cross Rio Grande and invade US are about the same as chances that Canadians invade US…

 

[Tupadre]

IIRC F-18A/B has slightly longer operational radius compared to F-16. On other hand Mex air force currently have around dozen operational F-5s.
40 modern fighters deployed in various airbases will greatly improve control of Mexican airspace no matter what range they have. Since F-16s would cost less, airframes would be in better condition and modernization and maintenance would be easier and cheaper I joust don’t see any reason for early F-18 purchase…

If they won’t two engine fighters they could joust join Navy Su-27 deal. I bet that Russians would give discount prices for larger order and they wouldn’t have two different fighters in inventory…

As for fears that modern fighters in Mexican inventory would somehow shift balance whit US I bet that USAF wouldn’t be concerned even if Mexico would procure double number of Typhoons… C’mon chances that Mexican horde cross Rio Grande and invade US are about the same as chances that Canadians invade US…

Well, I think we have see the things just as they are. Until today that news of 40 refurbished hornets for the mexican air force is nothing more that a rumor wich started some 3 years ago in a mexican military forum, just because somebody watched a FA 18 in the place were usually mexican Hercules are placed in an american military airfield.
Th fact is that there is no a single statement of the US or mexican goverment about these Hornets. The only US military material transfer for 2007 authorized by the US Congress to Mexico are the two Austin class LPD, and nothing more.
On the other hand, let´s suposse that the rumor is real and that the FAM will receibe 40 hornets. Why did the FAM choose the hornet instead of one more suitable and economic aircraft for Mexico like the Saab Gripen, the F-16 block 15 like those that Chile has purchased from the Netherlands, the Mig 29 or even more upgrated F-5E?
Mexico spends only the 0.45% of their national product in defence matters, and more than 90% of these budget is employed in paying fees , food and clothes for the soldiers and officers, and the budget for operating helicopters, transports aircraft is minimal.
How is the Mexican Air Force get aditional funds for operating 40 hornets?
Why don´t they thing in a cheaper and simpler to operate jet fighter like the Saab Gripen, now that the swedishs are offering used Gripens at 10 million dollars each?
And why choose an old fighter with old avionics and that can be armed just with Sidewinders and Sparrow missiles?
We have to keep in mind that the US will NEVER sell Mexico advanced weaponry like the AMRAAM , so why not choose an european or russian aircraft that can be armed with Meteor or R 27, R 77 BVR missiles?

For me 40 Hornets for the FAM has no sense.

 

[contedicavour]

There are second hand Gripens available at just 10 mln USD each ???
My oh my, how come somebody hasn't snapped them up sooner ? It's rock bottom prices for a modern jet compatible with the latest missiles !
Unless the offer is conditional on the acquisition of more new construction Gripens.
Since the sale to Eastern European countries (well, Hungary) and South Africa I haven't heard of any other procurement victories anywhere else...

cheers

 

[swerve]

There are second hand Gripens available at just 10 mln USD each ???
My oh my, how come somebody hasn't snapped them up sooner ? It's rock bottom prices for a modern jet compatible with the latest missiles !
Unless the offer is conditional on the acquisition of more new construction Gripens.
Since the sale to Eastern European countries (well, Hungary [and the Czech Republic] ) and South Africa I haven't heard of any other procurement victories anywhere else...

cheers

Even if that's the price (& if so, I'm surprised, unless it's linked to a support package which Saab & the Swedish government could make some money from), they're unmodernised early-production JAS39A/B, with limited A-G capability unless you pay for integration of more weapons.

The Swedish air force is retiring them, & keeping only JAS39C/D, & late-production A/B which they're upgrading to C/D standard.

 

[Tupadre]

A Mexican Air Force FAM Antonov 32 Cline transport felt into to the sea near Acapulco three years ago. Unfortunatelly all the four members of the crew died.
More or less one month ago a Casa 212 Aviocar -upgrated by EADS- suffered a similar accident near Yucatan, but in that case the crew managed to get out of the plane safe, and both the plane and the crew were rescued.

 

[ezekhernandez]

does any one knows about the radar capabilities?

does any one knows about mexicos radar capabilities maybe they just need more radars to secure their air space

 

[qwerty223]

IMO, the Mexican airforce need something to "strike", while their navy need a long range interceptor to secure region airspace/water