Current F-16 Versions Are World's Most Advanced Multi-Role Fighters?

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
What do you guys think? Where does it leave fighters like Eurofighter, Rafales and the Sukhoi series, etc. ?

Current Lockheed Martin F-16 Versions Are World's Most Advanced Multi-Role Fighters



PARIS: The two versions of the F-16 being delivered to customers now are the most advanced multi-role fighter aircraft types currently available on the international market and are building on the F-16's reputation for effectiveness and value, the Lockheed Martin general manager for the program said today.

"The F-16 continues as a modern, highly capable, affordable and supportable fighter. The program is healthy and full of activity, with firm production through 2008 and a strong likelihood of new orders that will extend the line for several more years," said June Shrewsbury, vice president for F-16 programs, in remarks to reporters at the Paris Air Show.

Shrewsbury said there are current backorders for 191 F-16 aircraft, plus a strong possibility Lockheed Martin will gain 100-200 further orders during the next few years.

Recent F-16 program milestones have included a rollout ceremony for the first aircraft for Chile at the Lockheed Martin plant in Fort Worth, Texas; the arrival of the first group of 10 "Block 60" F-16 aircraft in the United Arab Emirates; and Turkey's agreement for a major capabilities upgrade for its fleet of F-16s.

"In the aircraft business, nothing is more exciting than having a brand new product. The F-16 program has two new products in production today, and we also have a range of upgrade options available," Shrewsbury said.


FULL article:
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/pub...n_F-16_Versions_Are_World_s__254210002542.php
 
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aaaditya

New Member
Admin Edit: It is not related. We are talking about F-16 fighters in general from LM and their advance features... it doesn't involve any country, etc. That has nothing to do with IAF or India buying any fighter. For once, think outside the "india india" box.
 
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Alektas

New Member
OK, if we disregard the Su-30 MKI and the F-18 super hornet, then we can say that the latest F-16 is the best
 

EnigmaNZ

New Member
"the Lockheed Martin general manager for the program said today" is the key phase, so may be bias don't you think. One of the most advanced, would be more correct I would think
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Don't forget the F-15K, F-22 (which is now in full rate production), Rafale, Eurofighter and as mentioned above, SU-30 and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet all of which can claim for various reasons to be more advanced than any F-16 variant...
 

kashifshahzad

Banned Member
F-16's Cancelled Orders

Austria - Östereichische Luftstreitkräfte

Lockheed has proposed the F-16C/D to the Austrian air division, who need an urgent replacement for its obsolete Draken interceptor aircraft. An F-16 has even been painted with Austrian roundels, just to show how handsome it would look. Austria is also considering the Saab JAS-39 Gripen, Dassault Mirage 2000-5, Boeing/MDD F/A-18C/D, the Eurofighter Typhoon and an export variant of the MiG-29. The Rafale is not being considered.

After a round of talks with the different manufacturers, the Austrian government finally decided to purchase 18 Eurofighter Typhoon fighters to update their air defenses. After major flooding occurred in 2002, this decision was put on hold, although it now seems that this purchase is bound to happen.

Czech Republic - Vzdusné síly armády Ceské republiky
Ever since joining NATO in 1999, the Czech Republic has expressed its intention to update its current fighter force with more modern Western equipment. Up until recently no action was taken. However, in July the Czech Government decided to purchase up to 14 second-hand aircraft to update its Air Force.

A decision on the $550 - 650 million deal is expected to be taken very soon now.

In 2001 a decision was made to purchase up to 24 JAS-39 Gripen fighters. However, the major floods that devestated parts of the country in 2002 delayed a firm decision and the order for the Gripens was cancelled.

At the end of 2003, the Czech government finally announced that the winner of their fighter competition was the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen. With that decision, the Czech government stressed its earlier commitment to the Gripen. This decision was made after SAAB agreed to a 140% offset agreement.


Hungary - Magyar Légierö
After being invited in July 1997 to join in a first round of alliance expansion that will bring in Poland and the Czech Republic as well, Hungary said it would launch a $1 billion tender for around 30 new planes to update its aging Soviet Mig-21s once the conditions and requirements of its NATO membership were clear.

Russian aircraft stand little chance in this competition, as Hungary is very eager to join NATO through the PfP (Partnership for Peace) program, and Western equipment can only speed things up. The Air Force is considering the Rafale, Gripen and F-16 and enjoyed demonstrations from all three aircraft. The 1997 Salon du Bourget saw fierce battles being fought between the representatives of the competing companies over the orders. Most Eastern European potential customers hoped that increased employment, technology transfers and compensation orders would pay for their new fighters. As this proved not to be the case, sales to that part of the world will probably have to wait until after the change of millennium.

But when NATO talks began in September 1997, Hungarian Foreign Minister Laszlo Kovacs said the country might delay the upgrade of its fighter fleet, if NATO confirmed it saw modernization of radar systems as a priority.

In November 1997, Hungary's defense minister announced his country would not be able to meet NATO's requirements for air readiness (more specific the minimum flying time for pilots set at 180-200 hours per year) unless it gets new fighter planes. Hungarian pilots currently fly MiG-29s and MiG-21s for only 50 to 60 hours per year.

In October 1998, Hungary officially announced that it cannot afford new fighter aircraft. Hungary also announced it does not have the funds to buy new aircraft. It is considering extending the service life of its MiG-29s, leasing aircraft, or purchasing light aircraft such as the L-159.

On September 10th, 2001, the Hungarian Government decided to lease 14 JAS-39A/B Gripens from the Swedish AF. A lease agreement for 10 years was signed on December 20th, 2001. After the Parliamentary elections in April, 2002, the new Government aimed at an upgraded version of the Gripen fighter. On February 3rd, 2003, a modified agreement was signed for a 10 years lease of 12 single-seat JAS-39C and 2 twin-seat JAS-39D Gripens added with a commitment to buy the aircraft after the leasing period.


Iran - Imperial Iranian Air Force

The first foreign customer, beyond the four European NATO originators, of the F-16 program was Iran. As a part of the Shah's plan to modernize the Imperial Iranian Air Force, Iran signed a letter of intent on October 27th, 1976 for 160 F-16 aircraft, with the possibility of a follow-on order for 140 more. However, the Iranian revolution of 1979 which resulted in the overthrow of the Shah and the rise of the Islamic fundamentalist regime which currently rules the country, caused the order to be cancelled.
Unfortunately, one immediate effect of the cancellation of the Iranian order was that the individual unit cost of the F-16 was sharply driven upward. However, many of the F-16s intended for Iran were eventually sold to Israel.

Parts and maintenance equipment has arrived in Iran as early as 1978 and ground personnel have been given training. (Ground support equipment was later sold to Pakistan ).

New Zealand - Royal New Zealand Air Force

The New Zealand Government announced on December 1st, 1998, that it will lease-buy the 28 Pakistani F-16s which have been kept in storage at the AMARC (Aircraft Maintenance and Regeneration Center) at Davis-Monthan AFB, also known as the (desert) Bone yard. The Vipers have to replace New Zealand's 19 aging, subsonic A-4K Skyhawk strike planes. The aircraft were thoroughly inspected to ensure that they were still in mint condition.
The aircraft were stored at AMARC in 1990 as a direct result of the embargo against Pakistan. The aircraft were put in Flyable Hold for 5 years, during which time 85% of each aircraft's fuel system was preserved with JP-9, and each aircraft had its engine run once every 45 days. This resulted in the curious situation that most of those aircraft now have more engine run time than airtime, the latter being only 6 hours. This low air-time figure, plus the fact that these aircraft are the most modern F-16A/Bs ever built, is the main reason why New Zealand decided to buy these second-hand F-16s.

New Zealand's minority government claimed it would make a huge savings by leasing the planes. The 10-year lease for the F-16A/B Block 15OCU fighters costs about NZ$200 million ($105 million). The lease should save NZ$431 million over the cost of buying new planes next century. The government opted to acquire the F-16s under a lease-buy deal, with payments spread over 10 years and delivery starting in 30 months.

Pakistan originally paid Lockheed-Martin for the supersonic fighters in 1990, but Congress blocked delivery over concerns about that country's developing nuclear capacity.

In 2002 the newly elected government decided to abandon the plans to replace the A-4K with the Pakistani F-16s because of other needs to be financed with the sparse financial capabilities of the country.

If the aircraft would have been delivered, they would have been operated by 75 Squadron at Ohakea and No. 2 Squadron, which is a detachment based at Nowra, NSW in Australia providing air attack training for the Australian Navy (the RNZAF got paid by Australia to undertake this task).

South Africa - Suid-Afrikaanse Lugmag
Rumor has it that a benignly cheap price is being asked for second-hand F-16s, which would help beef up the African Crisis Response Force, should it ever come to anything.

In early 1999 however, South Africa seemed to express a definite preference for 28 JAS-39 Gripen aircraft, with an option of 20 more. The South African government has signed an agreement for the purchase of the Gripen, which will be delivered by late 2003.


Spain - Ejército del Aire
The USAF has offered Spain's Ejercito del Aire forty ex-USAF F-16A's to help fill in the gap until the arrival of the Eurofighter Typhoon, which is not now expected to enter service in Spain until 2005 at the earliest.

The United States government offered about 50 F-16 aircraft to re-equip the 21st wing (the Moron Roosters), which had retired its F-5s in 1992 and was using C-101 advanced trainers as an interim solution.

The Spanish government, however, did not accept this offer and decided to buy about 24 second-hand (US Navy-surplus) F-18s. The Spanish Air Force was already operating F-18s and starting to operate a new fighter would have been much more expensive and complicated.

Web master tell me why countries are going for the other planes if the modren F-16's are the most modren multirole fighters then all countries rush towards it but it is not the case .Countries who are not an operator of F-16's hesitate to use this fighter the reason can be hundreds like the time period for the pilot to muster all the combat ablilties of this planes they rather prefer to buy some of the european aircrafts and on the other hand the Russian Aviation exports are also down and India also want to go towards some european countries .If a country wants a real kind of defence then they should go for it .The US also dont want to transfer or dont want to give its latest technologies to the other countries so what should others do the only way is french Rafales and Mirages
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
I think u ppl have miss interpreted the guy

The F-16 continues as a modern, highly capable, affordable and supportable fighter
I think he is claiming F-16s as the best MR-AC on the above basis...but on the other hand no one can deny that F-16 is better dog fighter than F-15, F-18 & Su-30 & as far as its BVR modes go well it now carries AIM-120 with AESA APG-80 Radar as well. No MultiRole AC has recieved as much successful upgrading as F-16 & with every upgrade it has came out as a new AC.
 

kashifshahzad

Banned Member
SABRE said:
I think u ppl have miss interpreted the guy



I think he is claiming F-16s as the best MR-AC on the above basis...but on the other hand no one can deny that F-16 is better dog fighter than F-15, F-18 & Su-30 & as far as its BVR modes go well it now carries AIM-120 with AESA APG-80 Radar as well. No MultiRole AC has recieved as much successful upgrading as F-16 & with every upgrade it has came out as a new AC.
Sabre but US wants to give PAF older versions of F-16's cant we have these version which have this BVR capibility and this AESA radar US dont want to give its new technology to any other country other then i think the Isreal
 

kilo_4que

New Member
im sure it has been noted that the topic is not generalised upon certain air forces so we should stick to the topic of F-16s in general and how advance they really are

With regards to BVR, im sure its something where compatibility is not a problem. Enabling the older F-16 to BVR capabilities should not be a difficult task in terms of upgrades which im sure uncle sam can not refuse
 

highsea

New Member
I wouldn't say that the current F-16 versions are the most advanced multi-role fighters in the world, but I wouldn't really expect the General Manager of Lockmart to say anything else either...

I would say it's one of the most advanced, though. As far as versatility, there are not many other platforms that can carry the mix of weapons that the F-16 can, the ECM/EW suite on the Block 60's, coupled with the APG-80 radar outclasses anything else on a comparable AC, with the exception of the Super Hornet with APG-79.

The operative phrase is "multi-role". This excludes the F/A-22 and Typhoon from the comparison, at least for the time being, since those AC are not really developed beyond A2A capabilities yet.

As far as being technically advanced, the only current US AC at the same level (or higher) are the Super Hornet and Raptor. The Typhoon, Rafale, and Gripen are all equals or near equals on the technical side, but probably only the Rafale equals the F-16 as a multi-role platform (and I don't really know how good the French weapons are). The Typhoon doesn't have the A2G weapons, and the Gripen doesn't have the range and loadout of the F-16. The Super Hornet can carry a bigger warload, but the F-16 is a better fighter (70-0 in A2A engagements).

If I had to pick a plane to go to combat in, a Block 50 Viper with all the goodies would be pretty high on the list. But the Raptor would be higher. ;)
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
I'd say that the AESA equipped F-15E/K Eagle is the best multi-role fighter around at the moment. The size of it's radar system means it would surpass even APG-80 equipped F-16's in the BVR role, and due to the weight increase of the F-16 platform I doubt it could still compete with advanced F-15 variants in dog fighting scenario's, which are increasingly less important anyway.

In terms of range performance, even CFT equipped F-16's lack the range of and F-15 and the F-15 has a bigger warload too... If I had to choose an in-service multi-role fighter an AESA equipped F-15E/K Strike Eagle would be my choice...
 

highsea

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
... If I had to choose an in-service multi-role fighter an AESA equipped F-15E/K Strike Eagle would be my choice...
That's a good choice too. :)

The F-16 has the advantage in RCS by a big margin over the F-15 (10-13 dbsm vs. 0.3 dbsm), and the APG-80 is a generation ahead of the APG-63 (v)2, so I give the radar edge to the F-16 due to small size and LPI modes. But the F-15E has a slightly better T/W (1.07:1 vs. 1.02:1), and better range and speed. I think in maneuverability it would be a close call between Block 50 Viper and Strike Eagle, (I have a comparison somewhere of turn radii and rates for the two AC, but I am too lazy to dig it up). IIRC, the F-16 has the edge, but as you say, WVR is less of a factor nowadays.
 

adsH

New Member
highsea said:
Typhoon from the comparison, at least for the time being, since those AC are not really developed beyond A2A capabilities yet.
Capability wise I was under the distinct impression the Typhoon was built to be a Swing role AC with BVR and CIC as one of the keenly developed roles. The AC’s full potential comes in Trenches right now we are on Trench two capabilities. However I could be wrong!! Its possible BAE System has yet to integrate Ground weapons systems. But the AC has Ground capability its part of the swing role concept. Do you honestly think the raptor and the typhoons in terms of Capability are Equal to the F-16.
 

highsea

New Member
adsH said:
Do you honestly think the raptor and the typhoons in terms of Capability are Equal to the F-16.
Right now, the F-16 exceeds both the Raptor and Typhoon in capabilities, since neither Raptor or Typhoon are fitted out for standoff A2G, SEAD, ASuW, etc. Those capabilities are to come at a later date.
* There will be three EuroFighter production phases or "tranches":

The first 38 "Tranche 1" machines were configured for training, with a basic hardware and software configuration. This initial batch consisted mostly or completely of two-seater machines.

The following 105 Tranche 1 machines are fitted to an improved hardware and software specification, providing support for basic air-combat capabilities with the AIM-9L Sidewinder, the ASRAAM, and the AIM-120B AMRAAM. The remaining machines will feature the next level of software, which add a limited air-to-ground capability, and bring the EuroFighter up to the capability level envisioned in the aircraft's long-standing specification. Britain and Italy successfully lobbied for some additions in the Tranche 1 specification to support various laser-guided bombs (LGBs).

"Tranche 2" will add software for an enhanced air defense capability, a direct voice input (DVI) capability, MIDS / Link 16 data link, and a basic DASS.

Sets of "Enhanced Operational Capabilities (EOCs)" are being considered for Tranche 2 aircraft. "EOC1" lists support of the IRIS-T and AIM-120C5 AMRAAM missiles, both with "off-boresight" targeting capability, as well as GPS-enhanced LGBs. "EOC2" list supports of the Meteor BVRAAM, Brimstone, Storm Shadow, and the KEPD 350 Taurus missiles. The EOCs are currently in definition and may change over time. Current thinking envisions production of a total of 236 Tranche 2 aircraft in all, though this number is far from solid, with initial deliveries in 2006.

"Tranche 3" will integrate the PIRATE sensor, helmet mounted displays, a full DASS, and a full air-to-ground attack capability. Other features for Tranche 3 are now in definition as EOCs. The number of Tranche 3 aircraft to be built is also nominally 236, with initial deliveries in 2010.

http://www.vectorsite.net/aveuro.html
The OP specifies "multi-role" as a criteria. A2A is not multi-role. The Typhoon and Raptor have very limited A2G capabilities at this time. The first Tranche 2 Typhoons will be delivered next year, and Raptor is currently undergoing certifications for SDB. IOW, both AC as currently fielded are baseline configurations- not multi-role.

I'm not comparing the level of technology- only the capabilities as they currently stand.
 

hot222

New Member
Today's F-16s (Block 52/60) it is by its own, i think, the 3.5 generation!

It's a 3rd generation MR fighter, but with avionics of 4th generation. Been for the last 20 years the west's most successor aircraft, is ideal for everyone who all ready have them and want to upgrade to something newer for the next 20 years. Cost effectiveness.

But it's a 3rd generation aircraft, and of course it cannot be the leading aircraft for the world's top airforces.
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
What about Mirage-2000-5mk2??
Mirages are said to have better A2G capability than F-16.
I read in an interview of PAF pilot that Mirages are gr8 in A2G role but comes no where near A2A Role Compared to F-16.

And where does MKI Stand??

And What about Rafale,it having most powerful EW System (Spectra) and also
excellent avionics.
Poor Rafale hasn't won a single contract yet.
 

rjmaz1

New Member
The f-16 is really is brilliant.

Its above average in every aspect in terms of agility, range, speed, avioinics, weapons. Its below average in terms of price, most other 4th and 5th generation fighters cost more. The F-16 probably packs more punch per dollar than any other western fighter.

Its a very good bang for your buck, second day, multi-role fighter than can be used to make up the numbers of an airforce.

I think if Australia considers going with a two Tier fleet then the F-16 would definitely be a good option for the low aircraft purchase.

Some respectable countries use the F-16 as their front line fighter. That shows that its more than good enough to be the "low" fighter in a high-low combat mix.
 

rjmaz1

New Member
What's the max weight of ordnance that the newest F-16's can carry?
Why is that relevant? If your comparing the max weapon loads to other aircraft then your really clutching at straws.

The amount of countries that use F-16's will help increase the availability parts and upgrades well into the future. With the amount of weapons it can use its extremely versatile.

The F-16 has matured into an excellent aircraft. Not much left can be added too it.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
The f-16 is really is brilliant.

Its above average in every aspect in terms of agility, range, speed, avioinics, weapons. Its below average in terms of price, most other 4th and 5th generation fighters cost more. The F-16 probably packs more punch per dollar than any other western fighter.

Its a very good bang for your buck, second day, multi-role fighter than can be used to make up the numbers of an airforce.

I think if Australia considers going with a two Tier fleet then the F-16 would definitely be a good option for the low aircraft purchase.

Some respectable countries use the F-16 as their front line fighter. That shows that its more than good enough to be the "low" fighter in a high-low combat mix.
We just signed up for JSF today. There's little chance we'll be going with a "2 tiered fleet" in my opinion...
 
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