Chavez says may give US F-16 jets to Cuba, China

[P.A.F]

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...NEZUELA-US.xml

Chavez says may give US F-16 jets to Cuba, China
Tue Nov 1, 2005 6:24 PM ET



By Patrick Markey
CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday his government may give its U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets to Cuba or China and replace them with Chinese or Russian aircraft after accusing Washington of blocking purchases of U.S. military parts.
Any exchange of military hardware to those countries would break an agreement with the U.S. government on the transfer of technology without Washington's permission and further strain fraying ties between Venezuela and the United States.
A fierce critic of the Bush administration, Chavez has rattled Washington by strengthening ties with anti-U.S. states like Cuba and promoting his self-described socialist revolution as a counterweight to U.S. regional influence.
"If they don't comply with the contract ... we can do whatever we want with these aircraft, whatever the hell we want. Maybe we'll give 10 planes to Cuba or to China so they can study the technology," Chavez said.
"We could give them away and buy aircraft from China or from Russia. ... We don't need any U.S. imperialism," he said.
A U.S. defense official said there had been no communications with Venezuela's government about any sale of F-16s to other countries, but he noted that U.S. laws on foreign arms sales were "quite strict" regarding third-party transfers.
The United States does not trade with Cuba and keeps a tight rein on any technology transfers to China.
Israeli media reported last month that Washington had blocked a sale of technology to Venezuela to upgrade its F-16 fighters, which are made by Lockheed Martin Corp. and powered by engines made by General Electric Co. or Pratt and Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp.
U.S. officials have not confirmed the reports.
Chavez, a former army officer, made his statement during a ceremony to sign a contract with China to build a Venezuelan communications satellite and train Venezuelan specialists in China to manage the technology.
Venezuela, the world's No. 5 oil exporter and a key supplier to the U.S. market, was a traditional military ally to the United States. But relations deteriorated steadily after Chavez was elected in 1998.
Washington sold Venezuela 24 F-16 fighter aircraft in the 1980s when Caracas was seen as an ally against communist Cuba. It was unclear how many of the jets are operational now.
In constant tit-for-tat sniping, Chavez often accuses Washington of planning his assassination, while U.S. officials counter he has become a regional menace by using his oil revenues to finance anti-democratic groups in South America.
Venezuela still sells most of its crude oil to the U.S. market, but Chavez has moved to diversify economic partners by strengthening ties with countries like Russia, China, Iran and his South American neighbors.
In a sign of deteriorating relations, Chavez last year downgraded military ties with the United States by asking Washington to close down liaison offices at Venezuelan military bases.
Venezuela recently announced the purchase of automatic rifles and attack helicopters from Russia, naval vessels from Spain and military aircraft from Brazil in an effort to revamp its armed forces.

what could china/cuba do with these??? Maybe they can be MLUed for PAF??? Have your say

[aaaditya]

i dont think that it will be possible to mlu them if they are sold to china or cuba,since they will require source codes(this the very reason why i think usa does not provide source codes),i read in the keypublishing forum ,that these aircrafts can be used for aggresor roles,but i believe the problem in this case would be getting spares,since spares will tightly guarded by the us laws.so the only practical option would be study them and try to reverse engineer them,but here the drawback that i see is that these aircrafts are supposed to be of very old models and china already has comparable or superior technology if the form of j-10(it would have been more interesting if these aircrafts were f16b52),well i dont think this news will worry usa that much .
i would believe the only practical value for this aircraft would be as displays in museums.

[Hussain]

I think the planes would be ideally suited for Pakistan. I am not sure what the relationship is between the Venezuela government and Pakistan is at present. Pakistan may not wish to bid for the F16's in order not to offend the US. I am sure the US would rather see these planes go to Pakistan rather than China.

This matter can only create further instability in the region and it would be intersting to see China's response to all this. In any case China now has seat of power in South America and can use it as an advantage with regard to US military assistance to Taiwan.

[WebMaster]

Who is talking about selling the planes let alone to PAKISTAN? Give me a freaking break. Does anyone have an idea WHY Mr. Chavez is saying that he will "give" the fighters to CUBA or CHINA? Why didn't he mention any OTHER country? Think about that for a minute before saying crap like "well suited for us if China and Cuba don't want them..."

Let me explain in simple terms: Chavez is pissed/upset(for lack of a better term) at USA and the only reason he said China and CUBA is that those two countries are US rivals. If Chavez was so keen on "giving" the fighters to Pakistan or any other country he would have mentioned it but there is very specific reason why he mentioned just China and Cuba.

This topic better not turn into PAF's passion for F-16s or name 16 different ways PAF can get hold of F-16s... Keep that BS out and only in threads where it belongs.

[PLA2025]

China is unlikely to be interested in those F-16s block 15 since they had a F-16(A?) from Pakistan and the Lavi from Israel to make the J-10 platform. Since the Venezuelan F-16 are not C/D and below the Block 50 level, they are no use for the Chinese PLAAF. China wouldn't sell the J-10 to Venezuela in the near future and the FC-1 has been undergoing re-design sessions and re-evaluation before going into low-rate production. Would Venezuela buy the latest J-7 and J-8 which are cheap but obsolete?

[aaaditya]

Originally Posted by PLA2025

China is unlikely to be interested in those F-16s block 15 since they had a F-16(A?) from Pakistan and the Lavi from Israel to make the J-10 platform. Since the Venezuelan F-16 are not C/D and below the Block 50 level, they are no use for the Chinese PLAAF. China wouldn't sell the J-10 to Venezuela in the near future and the FC-1 has been undergoing re-design sessions and re-evaluation before going into low-rate production. Would Venezuela buy the latest J-7 and J-8 which are cheap but obsolete?

venezuela is reportedly going to place a huge order for defence technology with russia,so one more us market is going to fall to russia.

[Brit]

If venezuela did place a substantial order with Russia, say for current models of Fulcrum or Flanker, it would affect the arms balance in S. America. Brazil in particular is slowly getting left behind.

[Cootamundra]

Originally Posted by Brit

If venezuela did place a substantial order with Russia, say for current models of Fulcrum or Flanker, it would affect the arms balance in S. America. Brazil in particular is slowly getting left behind.

Chavez is just anti-american (big time!). The Yanks aren't going to let the sale go ahead even if Chavez wanted to. He's also been talking to Iran and China about forming an alliance with them, thereby giving them a market for their oil and cutting out the US. Chavez is a socialist that seems to have a real hate for all things american.

[P.A.F]

Originally Posted by Cootamundra

Chavez is just anti-american (big time!). The Yanks aren't going to let the sale go ahead even if Chavez wanted to. He's also been talking to Iran and China about forming an alliance with them, thereby giving them a market for their oil and cutting out the US. Chavez is a socialist that seems to have a real hate for all things american.

Well u gotta thing about why chevez hates everything american. he ain't hateing them for no reason u know. its simple. what is the point in venezuela keeping its F-16 if america aren't giving spares???
might as well sell em off and get aircraft from a more RELYABLE supplier. don't you think??? and also what can america do to stop such a sale. bomb them? invade them? i don't think so.

[P.A.F]

here is another article:

Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - Venezuela threatens to give its F-16s to Cuba or China as the US is reluctant to sell us the spare parts. US laws strictly govern third party transfers but Chávez cautioned that "failure to perform the agreement allows for either party to waive it."
"Therefore, we can do with those planes whatever we please. Maybe we will just send them back to them, or perhaps we will send 10 planes to Cuba, or to China, so they can have a look at the technology of these aircraft."

Any exchange of military hardware to those countries would break an agreement with the U.S. government on the transfer of technology without Washington's permission and further strain fraying ties between Venezuela and the United States.

As explained by Chávez, Venezuela has looked for spare parts elsewhere. "And they (the United States) began to exert pressure on those countries to prevent them from providing support for the F-16 maintenance."

Recently, the US government forced Israel to freeze an agreement to maintain Venezuelan F-16.



Venezuela bought two dozen F-16 jets from the United States in the 1980s.



http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article1493.html

[gf0012-aust]

Originally Posted by Brit

If venezuela did place a substantial order with Russia, say for current models of Fulcrum or Flanker, it would affect the arms balance in S. America. Brazil in particular is slowly getting left behind.

I'd have to disagree with that. None of the other South American countries are even remotely close to Brazils military capability. You need more than equipment to have an effective military machine.

Venzuela is a really a middle order South American power. Going to Russian equipment will create a logistics problem of its own, let alone fielding, training and deploying anything of significance.

What Venezuela should remember is that none of her neighbours are that fond of Hugo either - so what happens there is also in their interest to keep in check.

[P.A.F]

Originally Posted by gf0012-aust

I'd have to disagree with that. None of the other South American countries are even remotely close to Brazils military capability. You need more than equipment to have an effective military machine.

Venzuela is a really a middle order South American power. Going to Russian equipment will create a logistics problem of its own, let alone fielding, training and deploying anything of significance.

What Venezuela should remember is that none of her neighbours are that fond of Hugo either - so what happens there is also in their interest to keep in check.

If not russia, then could you expect china to take full advantage of this situation in terms of weapons selling and other military related stuff like airbases???

[gf0012-aust]

Originally Posted by P.A.F

If not russia, then could you expect china to take full advantage of this situation in terms of weapons selling and other military related stuff like airbases???

If I was Hugo I'd be more worried about how tolerant his neighbours will stay. I seriously doubt that China will do anything in Venezuela.

At some point, Brazil and Argentina will stir - and they're both rabid anti-communists. Any move by China into Sth American politics will trigger local responses. Brazil in particular makes Venzuelas military look like the local boy scouts.

Mexico also does not want a wild card neighbour .

All Chavez is doing is actually talking himself into a corner - and people are forgetting why he's taking this approach. He's is far from popular at home - and he's taking the time honoured path of creating a distraction to deflect any focus on the home front.

Militarily he is bracketed and/or surrounded by 4 neighbours who plainly don't like him. They've (other Sth American countries) been unofficially shooting at each other over the last 10 years - all he's doing is setting himself up for problems.

[Hussain]

Somehow I don't think the South Americans are in a position top fight each other. As one can see they've been suffering from a series of natural disasters recently, as well as internal conflicts. In any case China has been steadily growing its military and economic relationship with Brazil and Mexico too. I am sure the US is keeping a close eye on these developments. The pot can hardly call the kettle black!

[fieldmarshal]

The tiff being witnessed at present between us and vanezuela goes deeper than what meets the eye. Chávez since coming to power was the second government after saddams iraq who had decided to do oil trade against the Euro as against the dollar which is the norm since ages. Any body who knows eco will tell you that if this trend catches on than it will have far reaching and very davastating consiquences for the us eco.
The us has been trying to dislodge chavez through covert means, hence the coup plot which failed. But definatly chavez with his policies poses a grave eco threat, specially with high oil prices at present and dewendiling us stock and resources.
So like the man said "its all about the oil stupid"