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This is a discussion on Argentina Air Force News and Discussion within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Seems the on again off again Argentine IAI Kfir Block 60 acquisition from Israel is on again with negotiations to ...


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Old January 5th, 2017   #76
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Seems the on again off again Argentine IAI Kfir Block 60 acquisition from Israel is on again with negotiations to resume. 12 - 14 aircraft are involved.
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Old January 5th, 2017   #77
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I remember reading in air forces monthly that the argentine airforce wasn't interested in f-16'so due to the low air intakes being susceptible to fod. Maybe ex Ecuadorian jets would be a good option as they retired both mirage f'1s and kfirs.
That's gold. 4000+ F-16's built and no-one has had a major issue with FOD but the Argentinian's are worried about it? Lol

Cost, lack of support all of that i would accept, but FOD is the issue? Gold!
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Old January 5th, 2017   #78
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Didn't want 'em for a reason they weren't willing to admit, so came up with an excuse.

Reminds me of the Indian rejection of ex-RN Sea Harriers because they were offered without AMRAAM & without radars.

The Indians knew before they started negotiating that the UK wasn't able to sell AMRAAM without US permission, & if the US gave that permission they could buy directly from the US. They'd also just made a deal to fit their old Sea Harriers with Israeli radars & Derby missiles, & could easily have extended that to include the ex-RN aircraft, giving them the logistical & operational advantages of commonality.
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Old January 5th, 2017   #79
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Didn't want 'em for a reason they weren't willing to admit, so came up with an excuse.

Reminds me of the Indian rejection of ex-RN Sea Harriers because they were offered without AMRAAM & without radars.

The Indians knew before they started negotiating that the UK wasn't able to sell AMRAAM without US permission, & if the US gave that permission they could buy directly from the US. They'd also just made a deal to fit their old Sea Harriers with Israeli radars & Derby missiles, & could easily have extended that to include the ex-RN aircraft, giving them the logistical & operational advantages of commonality.
Yes I suspect as much too, I just think it is hilarious they come up with something so left field, rather than a much more obvious (and at least true, when we all know the real reason is cost...) reason of lingering suspicion over a potential lack of American support, should things get nasty once more at the Malvinas...

If the Argentinian Airforce were offered several squadrons of Block 52+ equivalent F-16's at a price they could afford and with logistical and training support guaranteed, does anyone seriously believe 'FOD' concerns would hold such a deal up?

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Old January 5th, 2017   #80
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Seems the on again off again Argentine IAI Kfir Block 60 acquisition from Israel is on again with negotiations to resume. 12 - 14 aircraft are involved.
Last time they had a contract ready, but the general who was supposed to sign it, went home...
I think FAA wanted to wait out for next administration to see if they could get more money and maybe get a better aircraft. Also, they want Israeli help in marketing Pampas abroad and I cannot imagine Israeli being too interested about such committment.
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Old January 6th, 2017   #81
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Seems the on again off again Argentine IAI Kfir Block 60 acquisition from Israel is on again with negotiations to resume. 12 - 14 aircraft are involved.
I find it interesting that Colombia uses as the example for how potentially capable the Kfir is. Their air force is looking elsewhere for fighter replacements as their Kfirs are suffering from attritional losses, 5 crashes in the last 6 years I believe was the last tally.

That's amplified in significance when on paper the Colombians have ~20 Kfirs left in their inventory and - AFAIK - they've been offered F-16's and M2000-5's as part of that.
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Old February 4th, 2017   #82
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Argentine Minister of Defence Julio Martinez announced that the Argentine government has suspended plans for new fighter aircraft to replace the Argentine Air Force’s legacy Lockheed Martin A-4ARs, IHS Jane’s reports. Argentina’s strenuous economic problems were cited as the cause.

In its pursuit for new fighter aircraft, Argentina cast a wide net, examining a range of Western and Eastern solutions. Among them was the JF-17, which is co-produced by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) and the Saab JAS-39 Gripen.

Those avenues did not come to fruition, but Argentina and Israel opened negotiations for the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Kfir Block-60. Talks froze and resumed intermittently. In January, reports had emerged that Buenos Aires resumed talks with Tel Aviv for 12-14 IAI Kfir Block-60.

At the end of last month, the Latin American defence publication Defensa reported that Buenos Aires was interested in the Mikoyan MiG-29 and sought 15 fighters from Moscow. During the launch of the MiG-35, the deputy director of Russia’s State Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Anatoly Pinchuk said Moscow will respond with an offer.
as i predicted, new government isn't interested in military modernization

www quwa.org/2017/02/03/argentina-drops-fighter-replacement-plans/

Last edited by George1; February 7th, 2017 at 07:06 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2017   #83
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as i predicted, new government isn't interested in military modernization
Please do not quote significant parts of, or all of articles. Because it infringes copyright and Intellectual Property laws. Secondly post the link to the article. I know that as a newbie you can't post links, but you can still post the full url of the link. As a guide, 10% of an article / work can be legally copied for research and educational purposes.
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Old May 16th, 2017   #84
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Argentinian media is stating that the government is analyzing the purchase of 6 modernized Dassault Super Etendard for the Argentinian Naval Aviation. The Fench Navy is retiring them which would help keep the cost down to ~10M USD total (seems really low... must be 10M each).

I'm not 100% sure this piece of news is legit, as there where many such claims in the recent past which never materialized. Some media outlets even reported the deal was closed and 10 warplanes where bought, which is rubbish. Realistically, there where very few reports of this.

Don't have any hard information regarding the authenticity of this.

Sources (spanish):
https://www.zona-militar.com/2017/05...uper-etendard/
http://www.perfil.com/politica/la-fu...-francia.phtml

Personal note: there are a couple more sources but I regard them as even more unreliable as these.
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Old May 17th, 2017   #85
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What Argentina really needs is to restore its ability to police its domestic airspace, & SEMs aren't the right aircraft for that. They're dedicated maritime strike aircraft.

Mirage F.1s, Mirage 2000s, F-16s, Kfirs - any would do, as long as they're sound.
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Old May 17th, 2017   #86
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Not putting much weight into anything until ink gets put on paper, until then it goes in the 'oooo what about that one?' jar which is Argentine fighter procurement.
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Old May 18th, 2017   #87
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SEM is too slow for air policing. I can see why COAN would be interested in French examples, which are heavily modernized, to maintain the fleets viability but it does nothing to address pressing lack of air defence assets.

Also, just how much mileage there is left in French SEMs? The fleet was flown some 15 years past its original retirement date and saw very heavy use. I should think that the aircraft are all worn out. I think it is telling that none of the private companies rushed to buy them.
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Old May 18th, 2017   #88
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I too think the SUE makes no sense. More AEW and maritim Patrol aircraft would.

Argentina has no "war hypothesis" as a political stance (bad translation), so buying naval/strike aircraft makes no sense in that context. Actually, unsure if the current government is maintaining that position.

For border patrol/drug traffic control, GCI and AEW (the latter non existent at the moment) could be paired with IA/AT-63 Pampa IA-58 Pucara or the current purchase of TC-6 Texan. Not 100% sure, but a reorganization of current airbases and assets would be necessary for this to make sense (short strips near key border points). Obviously, lack of ground radar installations is still an issue.

On the other hand, some sources claim the Navy would use the purchased ones for parts, and to try to upgrade current ones.

Still I think the SUE is an obsolete capability at this point, and should be scrapped to save resources.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #89
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Not putting much weight into anything until ink gets put on paper, until then it goes in the 'oooo what about that one?' jar which is Argentine fighter procurement.
Indeed :

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...ir-buy-440292/

Talks halted while they consider "other options".
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #90
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Dammit, just buy something! Enough speed & range to intercept any civilians doing naughty things, while carrying a couple of AAMs.

Oh, & Kasatka's right about radar, of course. A couple of modest AEW aircraft (Erieye? On a couple of those stored SAAB 2000? Or on something Embraer?) could be very useful.
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