All-jet pilot training programs

[adroth]

We heard that the Swedish air force's fighter pilot training program has its pilots going directly to jets, without going through prop-based primary pilot training. The only pilots that train on prop-based training are those that fly props, like transports and AEW aircraft.

The following site appears to support this assertion: http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/fv_train.htm

Does anyone here know of any other air force that does things this way? Are there any advantages or disadvantages to this mode of training?

Our discussion about this can be found here:

http://timawa.net/forum/index.php/topic,12870.0.html

 

[adroth]

Just bumping this up for visibility.

Anyone with info?

 

[Test Pilot]

I dont think that there is perhaps the relevance of the Swedish completing " all jet " training as you think there is . These aircraft are old. Many countries used to use jets for basic trainers (UK - Jet Provost, USA - T-37), but these aircraft were replaced by more economical turbo-prop trainers(Shorts Tucano and Raytheon T-6 Texan II).

One of the aircraft which the Swedish may consider to replace the SAAB jet trainers is the PC-21, - a turbo-prop.

 

[adroth]

I dont think that there is perhaps the relevance of the Swedish completing " all jet " training as you think there is . These aircraft are old. Many countries used to use jets for basic trainers (UK - Jet Provost, USA - T-37), but these aircraft were replaced by more economical turbo-prop trainers(Shorts Tucano and Raytheon T-6 Texan II).

One of the aircraft which the Swedish may consider to replace the SAAB jet trainers is the PC-21, - a turbo-prop.

Thanks T_P,

According to our forum member who inquired with the Swedish Air Force, they are reportedly quite happy with the all-jet program, and do not appear to have plans to replace their jet trainers.

Am wondering, specifically which air forces have abandoned all-jet training programs?

 

[kato]

ENJJPT (Euro-NATO Jet Flight Training with the USAF) is currently moving from the T-37 as primary trainer to the prop-driven T-6 - keeping the T-38 for subsequent training. The T-37 as primary trainer will be retired in 2009.

Originally, ENJJPT used all-jet training. 13 NATO members are currently part of ENJJPT (Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, UK, USA).

Most airforces in ENJJPT use precursor courses (20-30 hours) with prop-driven trainers already though (not primary training), and for the most part tack subsequent training, not only system-specific, onto ENJJPT.

 

[Test Pilot]

Which Air Forces abandoned all-jet training? Well, I would say, almost all of them!! About 20 years ago. Haven't you heard of the Tucano/Texan II/PC-9?

 

[adroth]

Haven't you heard of the Tucano/Texan II/PC-9?

Yes I have.

Which Air Forces abandoned all-jet training? Well, I would say, almost all of them!! About 20 years ago.

The more information we have about which countries had basic training in jets, and then abandoned the idea, we'd be better able to focus our research efforts.

It would also help us put Sweden into perspective, particularly their decision to stick with their all-jet program.

 

[Test Pilot]

I dont think you understood the point I made. If they are operating a very old fleet of jet trainers, then who says they have decided to "stick with" all jet training. If they are replacing their trainers in the next few years then we will find out what they have decided about all jet training, but in the meantime, many,many countries are still considering replacing aircraft with modern, turbo-prop trainers.

 

[adroth]

I dont think you understood the point I made. If they are operating a very old fleet of jet trainers, then who says they have decided to "stick with" all jet training. If they are replacing their trainers in the next few years then we will find out what they have decided about all jet training, but in the meantime, many,many countries are still considering replacing aircraft with modern, turbo-prop trainers.

The confusion is not on my end Test. It is actually with you.

Where did I ever say that they will replace their jet trainers?

As I stated, our inquiry with the Swedish Air Force indicated that this is their chosen mode of training. That means that if they indeed retire these old trainers, then their replacements will be jets as well.

=== ~~~ ===

My question is actually if there are other air forces that share their training philosophy.

 

[Test Pilot]

But everyone knows that they will be replacing their jets at some stage in the near future because they are old.

It will indeed be interesting to see if they replace jet with jet or turbo-prop.

 

[adroth]

But everyone knows that they will be replacing their jets at some stage in the near future because they are old.

In the absense of information about the material condition of the Saab 105s, we really cannot comment on when such a change will indeed occur.

If you do have this information, please feel free to share. Otherwise . . .

Old jets will remain in the air for so long as it is practical to do so, and if there are no replacements. Remember the B-52s?

=== ~~~ ===

Back to topic.

Does anyone else here know of other countries that maintain pilot training programs that do no pass through a propeller phase?