Go Back   Defense Technology & Military Forum > Global Defense & Military > Air Force & Aviation
Forgot Password? Join Us! Its's free!

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures

ExPB14_JAS-39_Gripen.jpg

ExPB14_Mirage2000.jpg

6_EXPB14_20140729_088_3_RSAF_F16s.jpg

5_EXPB14_20140729_143_3_RSAF_F-15SGs.jpg
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence







Recent Photos - DefenceTalk Military Gallery





Air Force To Shink Its F-15 Fleet

This is a discussion on Air Force To Shink Its F-15 Fleet within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; The Air Force will probably order dozens of its F-15 fighter jets permanently grounded because of crucial structural flaws, significantly ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old January 9th, 2008   #1
Senior Member
Colonel
F-15 Eagle's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,332
Threads:
Air Force To Shink Its F-15 Fleet

The Air Force will probably order dozens of its F-15 fighter jets permanently grounded because of crucial structural flaws, significantly reducing the number of planes available to protect the United States, officials said Tuesday.

After one of the jets broke apart during a simulated dogfight in November, Air Force officials grounded the entire F-15 fleet, nearly 700 planes in all, fearing such a defect. The newest versions of the fighter jets were allowed to resume flying shortly afterward, but 440 of the older model F-15s have remained out of service.

http://www.latimes.com/media/thumbna...5-08191819.jpg Fighters
http://www.latimes.com/images/standa...ktoenlarge.gif click to enlarge



http://www.latimes.com/media/thumbna...2-08211826.gif Graphic
Faulty support
http://www.latimes.com/images/standa...ktoenlarge.gif click to enlarge




The Air Force plans to allow about 260 of the remaining grounded planes to return to duty today. But about 180 more will remain idle because of suspected structural flaws.

"Many of them may never fly again," a senior Air Force officer said. The officer, like others interviewed for this article, spoke on condition of anonymity because results of the investigation are not due to be made public until today.

Long the nation's most sophisticated front-line fighters, the F-15 are gradually being replaced; many are up to 30 years old. The Air Force still relies on F-15s to protect the continental U.S. and to fly combat missions abroad. Newer model F-15Es are used in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan and were the first of the grounded planes to resume flying after the mishap in November.

The problems with the F-15, Air Force officials argue, have increased the need to purchase more F-22s, swift and stealthy but expensive new fighter planes. Air Force officials characterized the grounding of the F-15s as even more serious than if the Army had to take a large portion of its battle tanks out of service in Iraq.

"This is grave; we've had a heart attack," said a senior Air Force official. "Two hundred of our air superiority aircraft are on the ground, and we are acting like it is business as usual."

An investigation of the Nov. 2 crash shows the F-15 that broke apart over eastern Missouri had a fault in a crucial support component called a longeron, a structural beam that serves as part of the spine of the aircraft. F-15s have four longerons around the cockpit.

Air Force officials have not yet learned how a defective beam came to be installed in the plane, which was manufactured in 1980. But Air Force officials emphasized that the age of the airframe, combined with the faulty part, puts the older F-15s at risk.

"This airplane broke in half because of a fatigue crack," the officer said.

The Air Force has found cracks in nine of about 180 planes that remain grounded, but it thinks more have faulty structural beams.

The newer F-15Es are used in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the 440 older fighters -- models F-15A through F-15D -- are used for domestic patrols.

Since the fleet was grounded, the Air Force has used F-16s for patrols. Starting today, the Air Force will use a combination of F-16s and F-15s.

On average, the F-15s are 25 years old and have encountered other structural problems that have forced redesign programs.

Another senior Air Force official said the problems with the F-15 showed an "enhanced imperative" to purchase additional F-22 aircraft. The Air Force has said it needs 381 F-22s, although the Pentagon has approved the acquisition of only 183.

"We have to examine not only if we need the full 381 aircraft, but do we need them faster?" the Air Force official said.

The F-22 has cost billions to develop since it was conceived in the 1980s and remains a controversial plane. Critics have long charged that it is overpriced and was designed for a Cold War threat that no longer exists.

But Air Force officials say the plane is required to retain control of the air and protect American ground forces.

Skeptics of military spending have accused the Air Force of using the F-15's problems as a justification for purchasing more F-22s. The Air Force, these critics contend, should do more to examine whether the F-15s can be effectively repaired.

But in an interview, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said he thought the Air Force faced genuine issues because of its aging fleet. Gates said that replacing the fleet of in-air refueling tankers should be addressed first but that new fighters are a legitimate need.

"The Air Force's top priority has to be the replacement of the tanker fleet, but I think the notion that the Air Force is somehow pumping up the F-15 problem, I just don't believe that for a second. I think it's a real concern," Gates said.

Air Force officials said they thought some of the F-15s that remained grounded might be able to return to duty after repairs. But some senior officials have raised questions about how effective the F-15s will be after they are fixed. Some officials believe that repairs to stiffen the aircraft could reduce its capability as a fighter plane.

"Do you try to patch a 25-year-old airplane that has been patched and patched and patched?" another senior Air Force official asked. "After the repairs, it will not be the same aircraft it was before."
F-15 Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #2
Defense Aficionado
Major General
Sea Toby's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,472
Threads:
Of the services the Air Force has in the past switched to new aircraft for new technology quicker than the other services who have had to replaced worn out ageing equipment. Finally, the Air Force faces the same problem.

While it is important to be at the front in technology, the government and the people expect 30 years of life out of expensive equipment, not 10 to 15 years. Part of the problem is that previously the Air Force got the new technology, and they are still today. Unfortunately, the F-22s were bought for technological advantages, now it appears they are being bought to replace F-15s one for one.

I suggest the Air Force develop a second tier strategdy for aircraft. I'm sure in ten years we will need F-35s to replace ageing F-16s. While most of us people would like to buy Rolls, we settle for something less. It's about time the Air Force did so too. We can't afford every aircraft as Rolls.....
Sea Toby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #3
Defense Enthusiast
Sergeant
jaffo4011's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 272
Threads:
agreed,lets get straight onto eurofighter and get some typhoons on order,pronto.

we can have our cakes and eat it too as the engines are mostly of roll royce design anyway..........result!!!"!
jaffo4011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #4
Senior Member
Colonel
F-15 Eagle's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,332
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaffo4011 View Post
agreed,lets get straight onto eurofighter and get some typhoons on order,pronto.

we can have our cakes and eat it too as the engines are mostly of roll royce design anyway..........result!!!"!
What?!!!!! The Eurofighter???? No the U.S. Air Force is not going to buy the eurofighter, why would they ever do that, their going to buy much more F-22s possibly up to 381 F-22s. The F-22 with its stealth, supercruise, thrust vector and internal weapons make it much better than the eurofighter. LOL the eurofighter for the USAF thats the funniest thing I herd all morning.
F-15 Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #5
Defense Enthusiast
Sergeant
jaffo4011's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 272
Threads:
sarcasm....still unappreciated by the colonies!

and hey, it wouldnt be too bad n idea you know,esp if you judge it by your critera in the first post.esp if dog fighting is a priority!

Last edited by jaffo4011; January 9th, 2008 at 01:53 PM.
jaffo4011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #6
Super Moderator
Lieutenant General
SABRE's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,677
Threads:
Don't get into trouble boys. F-15 Eagle I think you already have tasted the disciplinary actions of the super mods. So dont stretch it.

No sarcasm, keep it as professional.
________________
"It is better to accept an end with a horror then face horror with no end." - Karl Von Clausewitz
SABRE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #7
Just Hatched
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5
Threads:
Smile F-15

Hey guys I were just watching the military news, the majority of the F-15s have just been ungrounded. They have a little over 300 aircraft to under go finale inspection. THE EAGLES ARE BACK!
skywalker1901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #8
Just Hatched
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5
Threads:
The aircrafts that will not be cleared those are most likely to be replaced by the F-22s. There are reason to believe they will produce the 381 aircraft the air force wanted.
skywalker1901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #9
Senior Member
Colonel
F-15 Eagle's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,332
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker1901 View Post
Hey guys I were just watching the military news, the majority of the F-15s have just been ungrounded. They have a little over 300 aircraft to under go finale inspection. THE EAGLES ARE BACK!
260 out of 440 F-15A-D and all 224 F-15E will be returned back to service but the remaining 180 F-15 A-D will face early retirement from age increasing the need to buy 381 F-22s which there is now a very good chance of this happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker1901 View Post
The aircrafts that will not be cleared those are most likely to be replaced by the F-22s. There are reason to believe they will produce the 381 aircraft the air force wanted.
I agree, they will most likely build 381 F-22s up from only 183 F-22s to replace all 440 F-15A-D because of strong support from congress and now from the DOD. The Pentagon recently said to hold off shutting down the F-22 line in 2009 and use the funds instead to repair the F-15s(260 of them).
F-15 Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008   #10
Senior Member
Colonel
No Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,474
Threads:
Re:

Deleted

Last edited by weasel1962; October 20th, 2008 at 02:59 AM.
weasel1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008   #11
Just Hatched
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5
Threads:
The airforce really want the F-22s to maintain air superiorority in any future theather of conflict. When you look at the Russian Su class aircraft these are formidable aircraft, they are being sold more abroad in increasing numbers.
The Su 35 a upgraded varient of the Su 27 has (or is getting ) the Russian most advanced avionics and radars. With the irbus radar which is their lastest and best it can, "according to public posts" outreach the AN/APG 77 currently in the F-22. This will give it a first look, first shoot, first kill, against any other western fighter except the F-22 wich will have to be within 20 -30 miles range before it will be seen.
skywalker1901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008   #12
Defense Enthusiast
Sergeant
jaffo4011's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 272
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABRE View Post
Don't get into trouble boys. F-15 Eagle I think you already have tasted the disciplinary actions of the super mods. So dont stretch it.

No sarcasm, keep it as professional.
apologies,just teasing....

Apology accepted, but no teasing allowed. & no reply to mod warning unless necessary.

-SABRE


Last edited by SABRE; January 10th, 2008 at 11:48 AM.
jaffo4011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008   #13
Senior Member
Colonel
F-15 Eagle's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,332
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by weasel1962 View Post
Its a strategy to get more F-22s. Afterall, radar coverage is provided by AWACs and ground control. The fighters are only there to perform intercept rogue civilian traffic. You don't need F-22s for that.

The existing requirements can be fulfilled by F-16s but why say that when it makes the case for more F-22s that much more appealing?

The air force has an inventory of over 1,200 F16C/Ds. Its not likely all are required/based in Iraq and Afghanistan. What about marine and navy F18s?
Because they need the 381 F-22s to replace the 676 F-15s because they are 30 years old, there past there service life, The AF can't keep them for much longer. Plus if you only have F-16s and F-18s that stenches the force very thin and the F-16s and F-18s will need replacement too from the F-35 JSF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker1901 View Post
The airforce really want the F-22s to maintain air superiorority in any future theather of conflict. When you look at the Russian Su class aircraft these are formidable aircraft, they are being sold more abroad in increasing numbers.
The Su 35 a upgraded varient of the Su 27 has (or is getting ) the Russian most advanced avionics and radars. With the irbus radar which is their lastest and best it can, "according to public posts" outreach the AN/APG 77 currently in the F-22. This will give it a first look, first shoot, first kill, against any other western fighter except the F-22 wich will have to be within 20 -30 miles range before it will be seen.
I agree with you, the Air force has to get 381 F-22s to counter the threat of the su-35 and others. The way I see it is, does America want to deploy the worlds best air force, or does America just want to hope and keep their fingers crossed that the air force is good enough?
F-15 Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008   #14
Super Moderator
General
swerve's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 5,513
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-15 Eagle View Post
Because they need the 381 F-22s to replace the 676 F-15s because they are 30 years old, there past there service life, The AF can't keep them for much longer. Plus if you only have F-16s and F-18s that stenches the force very thin and the F-16s and F-18s will need replacement too from the F-35 JSF.
...
Quite a few factual errors there. I'd expect someone calling himself "F-15 Eagle" to be better informed about it. The oldest F-15C in USAF service is less than 30 years old, & the oldest F-15E in USAF service less than 20 years old.

Only F-15A/B are 30 years old. How many of them are still in service?
swerve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008   #15
Senior Member
Colonel
F-15 Eagle's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,332
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by swerve View Post
Quite a few factual errors there. I'd expect someone calling himself "F-15 Eagle" to be better informed about it. The oldest F-15C in USAF service is less than 30 years old, & the oldest F-15E in USAF service less than 20 years old.

Only F-15A/B are 30 years old. How many of them are still in service?
The average age for the F-15A-D Eagle is 25-30 years old. The F-15E is anywhere from 10-15 years old. The best way to solve the fighter crises with the USAF is to buy new F-22s and not just patch up 25 year old jets. The F-15 was the best fighter of its time in the 1970s and 1980s but not anymore. The Air Force does not want to buy new F-15s because the production line for the USAF has been shut down and the F-22 line is already in full gear plus there are newer Russian fighters out there that are far superior than the F-15. If the Air Force were to buy 200 more F-22s its cost will go down substantially. The F-35 wont be in production for many years so the F-22 is the only solution to the F-15 nightmare, plus it has strong support from Congress and the Pentagon said to hold off spending $497 million to shut down the F-22 line in 2009 and keep it going.
F-15 Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:20 AM.